Late grandma's brooch...what cut is it?

[msmei]

I got these 3-piece linked brooches (called 'kerongsang' in the Malay language) from my late maternal grandmother but thought nothing about them until I read about old cuts on Pricescope. I'm wondering if the diamonds in these brooches are old cut diamonds, and if so what kind of old cut. My grandma was born in 1908 and these were probably given to her by her mother (my great grandmother).

I've attached a few photos. Your thoughts on these are greatly appreciated.

 

[ecf8503]

Look like OMB to me

 

[junebug17]

They look like old cut diamonds - I would say old mine cut. A very pretty and unique piece!

 

[kelpie]

What a treasure! Those are old mine cuts.

 

[msmei]

Thank you ecf, junebug and kelpie. I had a feeling they were old mine cuts too but wanted the expert opinions of Pricescopers. If I could get the diameter measurements of each stone, would I be able to get an estimate of how much they're worth?

Another question is....I wonder how these diamonds are held in their spot because I don't see any claws or prongs holding them (unless they're really really tiny!)

 

[TXJewel]

As the others have said, they're OMB's, but wanted to add that those are really lovely pieces and you're lucky to have them.

 

[junebug17]

In some of the pics, if I look closely, I can see really small prongs (almost look like tabs) on either side of the stone - some look like they have been worn away.

 

[msmei]

Thank you TXJewel, I happen to think they're gorgeous too (but I'm biased ) and I really am blessed to have them. I have no intention of selling them but am curious to know how much they might be worth.

The 'kerongsang' is used as part of our traditional costume/attire (called the 'kebaya') and its purpose is to hold the blouse together where we would now use buttons to do the job. The modern 'kebaya' these days have got hooks or stud buttons to hold the blouse together and the 'kerongsang' is hardly used anymore. I'm toying with the idea of popping the stones from its current home and resetting them into something that I would wear everyday. But I'm afraid that this may damage the brooch. Any thoughts, suggestions or advice?

 

[msmei]

In some of the pics, if I look closely, I can see really small prongs (almost look like tabs) on either side of the stone - some look like they have been worn away.

You have a keen eye junebug. Yes, I see the tabs too. And because they're so delicate I'm wondering if by getting the stone loose, it might damage the brooch so that it will never be able to house another stone in future.

 

[VRBeauty]

Beautiful! Definately old mine cuts.

My family also got a set of three kebaya pins from my late grandmother (who lived in Indonesia). My parents turned one of them into a pendant for me - my mother also has one made into a pendant. They had originally offered to make them into earrings for me because at the time, I had little use for dangling earrings. No matter, I love my pendant!

If keeping the set intact is an option... I think it's lovely just as it is!

BTW when I had some work done on my pendant, the jeweler said one of the stones was a transitional cut diamond. I assume one of the original diamonds was lost somewhere along the line and replaced with a newer stone.

 

[msmei]

Beautiful! Definately old mine cuts.

My family also got a set of three kebaya pins from my late grandmother (who lived in Indonesia). My parents turned one of them into a pendant for me - my mother also has one made into a pendant. They had originally offered to make them into earrings for me because at the time, I had little use for dangling earrings. No matter, I love my pendant!

If keeping the set intact is an option... I think it's lovely just as it is!

BTW when I had some work done on my pendant, the jeweler said one of the stones was a transitional cut diamond. I assume one of the original diamonds was lost somewhere along the line and replaced with a newer stone.

Hi VRBeauty

I'm actually torn between keeping the kerongsang intact (because its lovely the way it is like you say ) but at the same time, I do so want to enjoy the beauties everyday, reset on a ring or pendant or earrings.... sigh....

Do you have a photo of your kerongsang before it was taken apart? And is there a photo of your pendant on Pricescope that I can ogle?

 

[VRBeauty]

Do you have a photo of your kerongsang before it was taken apart? And is there a photo of your pendant on Pricescope that I can ogle?

I had no idea what the pin set was called before now? Unfortunately I don't have a picture of the intact keronsang. I'll try to post a picture of the resulting pendant later today (my camera-to-computer skills are kind of rusty).

Thank you for taking the time to share your treasure with us!

(ETA what I meant to say in my original post is that I turned the offer of earrings down because at the time, danglies just weren't worn with business attire and at that time I was all business!)

 

[Dreamer_D]

Old Mine Cuts! Lovely!

I wonder if the little swirls in which the stones are set can be un-attached from one another and reoriented into a pendant and dangle earrings?

 

[msmei]

Old Mine Cuts! Lovely!

I wonder if the little swirls in which the stones are set can be un-attached from one another and reoriented into a pendant and dangle earrings?

Hi Dreamer D, it's such an honor to have you comment on my post. The swirls are actually a one-piece cast (don't know if that's the right term). I guess it would be possible for the jeweler to cut them apart but the sentimental me would like to keep them as is. If the diamonds can be removed without damaging the setting, I was thinking of inserting cz (cut to look like omc) into the empty spots, then resetting the diamonds into other forms of jewelry. That way I am still able to enjoy the vintage piece as well as enjoy the diamonds in their new settings (which I would wear everyday ).

 

[kenny]

Wow, what a cool antique!!!

You mentioned, "what it's worth".
Unfortunately the answer is not one single number.
It depends on a lot of things.

At a fancy estate jeweler on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan it will fetch a higher price than what a pawn shop in Detroit will offer you.
So which was the "correct" or "true" value?

Even considering that if you still want to get it appraised here's Pricescope's list of professional appraisers: https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers

I would only deal with an appraiser who has a GG (Graduate Gemologist is GIA's highest educational level) and does NOT sell or buy anything. (Potential conflict of interest.)
And do not expect anyone who buys or sell jewelry to give you an unbiased "appraisal", especially for free.
And if someone assigns a value and offers to buy it, run fast.

 

[Enerchi]

Lucky you!! how wonderful to be the current owner of so many beautiful OMB's!! What an eternity band *that* would make, if you took them apart - WHOA! SWEET!

Could you take off one strip and use the diamonds in something you'd wear on a regular basis but leave the other 2 bars on the broach intact?

Lovely treasure to receive!

 

[msmei]

Thanks Kenny & Enerchi for responding!

Kenny, wish I lived in the US where I can get this appraised by the Pricescope appraisers. As far as I know, there are no appraisers in my country that are 'independent'. All of them are attached to some jewelry house or jewelry trade outfit. I can still get it appraised but I doubt it will be the true assessment of its value.

Lucky you!! how wonderful to be the current owner of so many beautiful OMB's!! What an eternity band *that* would make, if you took them apart - WHOA! SWEET!

I sure am! lol! And to think I didn't really give the diamonds much thought when it was given to me 9 years ago. I thought they were cut funny! I have Pricescope and psers like you and the other old cut lovers to thank for my new found appreciation of old cuts.

Could you take off one strip and use the diamonds in something you'd wear on a regular basis but leave the other 2 bars on the broach intact?

I sure would like to do that, if I could get the stones loose without damaging the original setting. It would be so cool to be able to wear them on a regular basis. Perhaps I should start a new thread in the Antique/Vintage Jewelry section to get ideas on reset designs? I really am itching to get at least 5 stones out to reset into either a ring or a pendant.

By the way, the measurements of the centre stone is approximately 5.5 x 5.5 mm, the side stones are around 3.5mm x 4.5mm and the end stones approximately 3mm x 4mm.

 

[VRBeauty]

Maybe one of the pins could be use as the center of a bangle-style bracelet?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Very beautiful! I would try to keep each part intact but separate them and incorporate them into a pendant and earrings, perhaps, as vrbeauty mentioned. The gold is beautiful and the stones are just perfect in the settings! You might want to have them checked because they might need a little extra prong work to make them secure.

 

[JaneSmith]

That is a beautiful sentimental heirloom. You are lucky!
Could you set one bar as part of a necklace? Attach a chain to it at either end so it sits horizontally on your chest? That way you don't have to worry about damaging anything and still get to wear your beautiful diamonds.

 

[chrono]

Ooh! Another PSer with a Nonya background. Welcome to PS and that, my dear, is a beautiful kerongsang. While I understand your wanting to be able to wear and admire your heirloom piece in some form or fashion, personally, I would keep the entire piece intact for historical and cultural value. These are just not made anymore. I am sure there are creative ways to wear it. For example, you can wear them as a brooch (stagger them almost diagonally in a row) or scarf pin.

 

[msmei]

Wow! Thanks for the great suggestions on how to redesign my kerongsang. Thank you VRBeauty, Diamondseeker, JaneSmith & Chrono!

And Chrono, it's so cool to find a fellow PSer with the same background too! Yay! If you don't mind me asking. Where do you reside now? And from which part of Malaysia are your Nyonya roots? My maternal grandma used to wear kebayas during her lifetime but not my mom. However, Mom cooks a mean Chicken Curry Kapitan lol! I love the nyonya culture, but can't claim that I'm a full-fledged nyonya.

Back to the kerongsang. I hear what Chrono is saying about historial & cultural value. And Diamondseeker pointed out that the gold is lovely, which I totally agree so....I've decided that I won't take the diamonds out, but I might remove the chains that link them and have all three bars combined into a necklace. Bracelets are out as I have small narrow wrists, so even one bar of the kerongsang would be too long for me.

Could I call out to PSers again to help me with ideas for a necklace containing all 3 bars? I know it won't be something I could wear daily (I won't be comfortable with so much gold and bling on my neck for everyday wear ) but it could still be worn when I attend dinners with my husband.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[kenny]

I would absolutely NOT alter the piece.
It's value, financial, ascetic, historical, and sentimental will suffer IMHO.

In the future unaltered historical pieces become more rare.
Everyone wants to "improve" on history, thereby destroying it.
I'd feel a responsibility to protect it's original design.

 

[msmei]

I would absolutely NOT alter the piece.
It's value, financial, ascetic, historical, and sentimental will suffer IMHO.

In the future unaltered historical pieces become more rare.
Everyone wants to "improve" on history, thereby destroying it.
I'd feel a responsibility to protect it's original design.

You have a very good point there Kenny. Sigh....guess I'll have to think of creative ways to wear it without altering them in anyway. You are right. I have a responsibility to protect it's original design and historical value.

No alteration then. Case closed.

 

[LibbyLA]

Is there any way that you could add chain between the two ends so that the brooch becomes a necklace? (It's hard for me to tell, but it looks like chain connects the end of one piece to the end of the next piece.) If it's too long that way, maybe there is a way to use shorter pieces of chain between each piece so that the original chain forms a loop that hangs down. The pins on the back may affect how the pieces would lay against your chest, but I could see this as a U-shaped necklace.

liz

 

[Venti25]

It's beautiful .

 

[chrono]

I was so pleasantly surprised to see a fellow PSer with the same roots too. Both my late grandmothers wore kebayas with sarongs everyday but neither handed down such a lovely diamond studded kerongsang. I cannot cook worth squat though and only wear kebayas on very special occasions. Since M'sia is very small, I'd rather not disclose which part I come from. I now reside in the northeastern region of the US.

I like the idea of looping a short chain from one end of the kerongsang to the other end in order to quasi modify it into a necklace without affecting the current setting and stones. They might flip a little but could be wearable.

 

[msmei]

Thank you LibbyLA, Venti, and great to hear back from you Chrono!

I will consider LibbyLA and Chrono's suggestion of perhaps adding a short chain to quasi modify (as Chrono puts it ) into a necklace. The pins will definitely get in the way I think. Will experiment and take a photo when I can muster up some time.

Meanwhile, I must say I'm totally hooked (possibly even addicted) to Pricescope and old cuts, so much so that I've decided to put money aside each month towards buying a loose old cut stone or a ring with and old cut diamond. My eyes are turning green by all the beautiful old pieces that PSers own. And I'm positively drooling over those being sold on pre-loved but for which I can't afford.....yet

 

[VRBeauty]

I like the idea of using all three as a necklace - personally, I'd have the pin backs removed to wear it that way.

Another option is to use two of the pieces - one on either side of a "v" shaped drop that meets at a center stone, from which you could hang another stone, maybe a colored stone of some sort.

But I do like the idea of using all three as a simple necklace more, and I think you'd get more use out of it that way.

 

[LibbyLA]

You could try the three end to end, so that one is straight in the middle and the other two extend up (like a U, but with the arms stretched out) or maybe even a Y shape. Depends on what arrangement would look better on your. I think you can come up with something beautiful and unique from that piece.

liz