last minute question!! Feather in AGS Si1... please help!

[mrquick]

ok - I really need help ASAP please.

I went to a local store to buy an engagement ring, sales person was very helpful. What I decided on was an AGS certified Si 1 H color .85 carat. Ideal cut.

I had never heard of "feathers" before, but I have read up on them before I posted this, so I know what they are and that they are not really "bad" if they are not feathered to the edge.

Here is my problem/ question.

The feather in this stone, I can see it with my naked eye at about 5 inches. its not "obvious" but you can take it, turn it around, flip it, and I can spot it, if I take a very short amount of time to look for it. it is near the girdle, but not quite close enough to be covered by the prong. The prong will, however, be so close to it that the feather will not look as obvious. The feather would run along the tip of the prong, and is very slightly wider than the tip.

Otherwise the stone has NO inclusions that I could see under the microscope, it looked MUCH clearer than another VS2 AGS cert stone. It is AMAZING aside from the feather. I would be suprised if it would have been graded lower than a VVS2 if the feather wasn''t there.


I am ok with the feather... it seems to be in a good spot, what concerns me is that I can see the feather with the naked eye and it is an Si 1. I should not be able to see ANYTHING with the naked eye from what I understand. Also being AGS cert, I am told to trust their judgement. They did not have the cert papers yet, but the wrapping paper the diamond was in had the info, that it was an AGS cert, and the other info.

I don''t feel as I am being mislead by the sales rep, but if I should not see the inclusion with the naked eye, and clearly I can, why is it an Si 1? is it because the rest of the diamond is so clean/ clear? This is where I am confused. again, its easy to see (naked eye) if you know its there, not if you were just glancing at the stone. maybe a millimeter or so.

I have instructed the setter to place the feather near (or under if possible) a prong. Because it is not under the prong, and is Next to the prong, is that a bad idea if I want to avoid future or further cracking there?

Finally, I was also told that this diamond would have been given a clarity grade LOWER than Si 1 by AGS if the feather was out to the edge of the diamond. Is that right? I looked on AGS'' site, I couldn''t find an answer. I think I was told that the feather was not reaching the edge, but now I am not sure, as at the time I was not familiar with feathers. I am not sure how the sales rep could be sure without the papers...

Any help would be much appreciated. Tomorrow I have to pay the rest of the balance. I would have waited but this weekend is a perfect time for me to propose, so I couldn''t wait.. But I need these questions answered for peace of mind. also I got a pretty good deal on the stone and setting together, it is beautiful!!

 

[echelon6]

Feathers are fractures in the diamond.

Firstly, it is SI1 because solely by clarity grade definition, SI1 = inclusions were easily spotted by the grader under a 10x loupe. So in theory, even a flawless diamond but for a single inclusion which was easily spotted under 10x loupe, it would be graded as an SI1.

SI1 is no guarantee of eyecleanliness. In some SI1s, inclusions are invisible to the naked eye, in others (e.g. yours), they could be seen even with the naked eye.

Feathers don''t look bad, but can threaten durability. For you, it is most important to make sure the feather does not reach the surface (use a loupe and look carefully if the feather comes to the surface). If this is the case, reject the diamond because it will be prone to breakage.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/8/2007 1:43:05 AM
Author:mrquick
ok - I really need help ASAP please.

I went to a local store to buy an engagement ring, sales person was very helpful. What I decided on was an AGS certified Si 1 H color .85 carat. Ideal cut.

I had never heard of ''feathers'' before, but I have read up on them before I posted this, so I know what they are and that they are not really ''bad'' if they are not feathered to the edge.

Here is my problem/ question.

The feather in this stone, I can see it with my naked eye at about 5 inches. its not ''obvious'' but you can take it, turn it around, flip it, and I can spot it, if I take a very short amount of time to look for it. it is near the girdle, but not quite close enough to be covered by the prong. The prong will, however, be so close to it that the feather will not look as obvious. The feather would run along the tip of the prong, and is very slightly wider than the tip.

Otherwise the stone has NO inclusions that I could see under the microscope, it looked MUCH clearer than another VS2 AGS cert stone. It is AMAZING aside from the feather. I would be suprised if it would have been graded lower than a VVS2 if the feather wasn''t there.


I am ok with the feather... it seems to be in a good spot, what concerns me is that I can see the feather with the naked eye and it is an Si 1. I should not be able to see ANYTHING with the naked eye from what I understand. Also being AGS cert, I am told to trust their judgement. They did not have the cert papers yet, but the wrapping paper the diamond was in had the info, that it was an AGS cert, and the other info.

Actually it isn''t uncommon to be able to see something in an SI clarity, especially from the side - SI means slightly included and some of these grades do have a visible inclusion, some do not but you have to treat SI clarities on an individual basis.

I don''t feel as I am being mislead by the sales rep, but if I should not see the inclusion with the naked eye, and clearly I can, why is it an Si 1? is it because the rest of the diamond is so clean/ clear? This is where I am confused. again, its easy to see (naked eye) if you know its there, not if you were just glancing at the stone. maybe a millimeter or so.

I have instructed the setter to place the feather near (or under if possible) a prong. Because it is not under the prong, and is Next to the prong, is that a bad idea if I want to avoid future or further cracking there?

From what I understand, placing a feather near a prong may offer some protection, an expert setter will be the best person to advise you for your situation.

Finally, I was also told that this diamond would have been given a clarity grade LOWER than Si 1 by AGS if the feather was out to the edge of the diamond. Is that right? I looked on AGS'' site, I couldn''t find an answer. I think I was told that the feather was not reaching the edge, but now I am not sure, as at the time I was not familiar with feathers. I am not sure how the sales rep could be sure without the papers...

Any help would be much appreciated. Tomorrow I have to pay the rest of the balance. I would have waited but this weekend is a perfect time for me to propose, so I couldn''t wait.. But I need these questions answered for peace of mind. also I got a pretty good deal on the stone and setting together, it is beautiful!!

There are differing schools of throught on feathers, surface breaking are not desirable generally, but some feel feathers pose no durability issues depending on location and non surface reaching etc. I wouldn''t worry too much with this reliably graded diamond, you could always contact an appraiser quickly to get him to run his eye over the feather before making the sale final if you are worried and time permits.

I would also use the search tool, type in feathers and lots of info will come up which should help you too.

 

[phoenixgirl]

It was graded looking down at the table. Since you have to turn it around and flip it, I'm gathering that means you are looking at it from the side or from the bottom. SI1 means the inclusions are visible from the top when magnified 10x.

I recently bought a GIA graded 0.82 SI1 stone that had two black inclusions visible from the bottom.

 

[mrquick]

I can see the feather from the top, naked eye. I dont have to turn it.

I will check again to see exactly where the feathering stops.

I figure that feather is why its an SI 1 vs. a VS grading.

thank you for the replies, I wish I had a pic to show.

I did search a lot for feathers, but I still had questions.

I still have a question though - I was told by the sales rep that because it is an AGS certified stone that I should trust that the feather is not a risk for breakage of the diamond. She said that at AGS 7 - 8 gemologists look over each diamond. Is this true? I couldn''t find that info on their site.

I know AGS is the most trusted gemologists, so should I not worry?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/8/2007 8:42:20 AM
Author: mrquick
I can see the feather from the top, naked eye. I dont have to turn it.

I will check again to see exactly where the feathering stops.

I figure that feather is why its an SI 1 vs. a VS grading.

thank you for the replies, I wish I had a pic to show.

I did search a lot for feathers, but I still had questions.

I still have a question though - I was told by the sales rep that because it is an AGS certified stone that I should trust that the feather is not a risk for breakage of the diamond. She said that at AGS 7 - 8 gemologists look over each diamond. Is this true? I couldn''t find that info on their site.

I know AGS is the most trusted gemologists, so should I not worry?

AGS along with GIA are the industry leaders for lab grading, so I wouldn''t worry too much, opinions vary regarding feathers as much as feathers can vary themselves, it probably is in no way an issue, but to be sure you could ask the sellers if they would agree to having the diamond checked out by an independant appraiser before the sale is final to give you peace of mind. Although it is more than likely fine and not a problem, only a "disinterested" expert with the diamond in hand can say for sure. Personally I would trust AGS and their grading, but it depends on your own comfort level. As to the amount of gemologists checking each diamond I don''t know, but I should imagine clarity and colour grading is subject to a few agreed opinions.

 

[mrquick]

I called back the store and asked the setter to take a closer look to make sure the feather isn''t hitting any surface. I let them know that if it is, there was another diamond I liked as well, that was very slightly higher in price and is a VS2 (but the inclusions are right on top in the center and black, where as mine only had the feather, at least that was obvious under the microscope ).

I figure this way they will be honest as they know they won''t lose the sale, or even any money. They all have 20+ years experience and its a privately owned store. More trustworthy than any place I have been to. But still, I need to be careful.

So - it sounds like AGS would not have graded it as Si 1 / Ideal cut if the feather was reaching the surface, or was in any way a major risk, is this correct? That is one question I am still looking for an answer to, but I don''t think I worded the question properly in my previous posts.

thanks again everyone, it is really a big help!!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/8/2007 10:45:16 AM
Author: mrquick
I called back the store and asked the setter to take a closer look to make sure the feather isn't hitting any surface. I let them know that if it is, there was another diamond I liked as well, that was very slightly higher in price and is a VS2 (but the inclusions are right on top in the center and black, where as mine only had the feather, at least that was obvious under the microscope ).

I figure this way they will be honest as they know they won't lose the sale, or even any money. They all have 20+ years experience and its a privately owned store. More trustworthy than any place I have been to. But still, I need to be careful.

So - it sounds like AGS would not have graded it as Si 1 / Ideal cut if the feather was reaching the surface, or was in any way a major risk, is this correct? That is one question I am still looking for an answer to, but I don't think I worded the question properly in my previous posts.

thanks again everyone, it is really a big help!!

I very much doubt it, but I hope one of the experts will chime in here and answer.

Here is some info I found from one of our experts which may help in the meantime.


"As the stone is an SI1, the chances are that it's not a problem. Structural durability is one of the aspects major labs take into account when assigning clarity grades."

This is from the archives and is concerning an SI1 diamond with a feather - we have no way of knowing about the actual diamond you are considering, but the latter highlighted part of the quote does shed some light and seems reassuring that your diamond is probably fine.