Ladies-In-Waiting, why don't you propose?

[Patty]

My daughter''''s best friend is proposing tonight. Yes, my daughter''''s best friend is a girl and she''''s proposing to her boyfriend!

Who says it has to be the guy who asks? She even has bought a ring for him. (Plain band with some inscription inside.) I think it is great although I don''''t know how many girls would have the nerve to do it. This girl is a very take-charge type person...in a good way, lol. She''''s a classic over achiever, majoring in two subjects in college, taking up to 24 credit hours a semester, president of her sorority, etc. They HAVE discussed marriage already so it''''s not like she''''s totally springing this on him.

My main reservation about her plan is that she is only 21 years old. She says they will wait at least two-three years so that is good. My other reservation is that her boyfriend drinks too much. She is definitely a caretaker type of personality and he definitely needs taking care of. So they match up well that way, but I think that because of her age, she may not realize what she''''s getting in to.

She''''s doing the whole sh-bang for the proposal. Has a hotel room, is setting it up ahead of time and sprinkling rose petals, etc. Then later she will meet about 12 of their friends for dinner and he will be surprised...by the proposal and by the fact that everyone else will be at the dinner celebration. When I got engaged to my hubby, we pretty much just talked about it and together we decided to get married. There was no big surprise proposal. Once we decided to do it, we went and picked out a ring together and then we were engaged. It seems like now people make a much bigger deal out of the official "getting engaged."

Oh, this girl will probably have her mother''''s diamond made into a ring for herself. Her mom died three years ago of breast cancer. So the guy is off the hook there financially, which is good since he''''s a student.

So, do you think she''''s crazy? Pushy? I know her and find her to be an absolute sweetheart. I worry about them being too young, although that has nothing to do with who does the asking. Would any of you consider something like this? I mean, it IS the 21st century. Who says the guy holds all the cards?

 

[appletini]

This is a very interestsing scenario, especially for a young lady in college. And while the kind of guy that is fun to date in college, may not necessarily make an ideal husband, especially when the pressures of the "real world" may strain the marriage. Perhaps your daughter's friend is looking to fill the void left by the death of her mother. If they are thinking of having a super long engagement anyway (2-3 years) then perhaps the engagement could wait to...maybe until at least graduation. What does the girl's father think about all of this?

Also I used to be the girlfriend that did everything for my ex...sometimes I felt more like the mom than the girlfriend. The man I have now is so wonderful and even though he knows that I am fully capable of taking care of myself, he like for me to let him take care of me as a gentleman should.

 

[sciencegeek]

I see nothing wrong with her proposing at all, especially if they''ve already discussed marriage. Her age concerns me, mostly because I''ve been there. I''m a classic overachiever too, and when I was 21 I was dating a young fool in love who needed quite a bit of mothering (it ended and I was torn apart but now I''m incredibly relieved). I''m sure she sees taking care of him as no big deal, and she is happy to be so together and in charge, but over time it wears. I guess what I want to say is just because you *can* do it all, doesn''t mean you should. Best of luck to them.

 

[Momoftwo]

I don't see their age as an issue. My husband and I were married when I was 21 and he was 24. It'll be 24 years in July. The issue I see is the drinking part. If he really drinks too much that won't just stop overnight. My husband asked me, but after we'd talked about it for a couple of months and we had picked a ring which he gave me 11 days later. No big waiting period or nail biting. As far as I'm concerned the proposal or the ring isn't the big deal some seem to think it should be. The marriage is what everyone should be focusing on.

 

[honeynut]

How old is the husband? I think almost everyone drinks too much at that age. Depending on the couple, partying together may keep them together. She sounds like the overachieving is being extended to her relationship though - marriage is seen by many women as an enormous social ''achievment''. (I think it is an achievment, but I wonder if this one would be for her, or for them as a couple.) Lots of girls think that marriage is their portal to true womanhood. Many want to be the first of their friends to tie the knot. Marriage does not grow anyone up. Does she know this, and really believe it?

 

[Jennifer5973]

I could argue either side of this in general terms:

One the one hand, this is 2005 and traditional notions of male and female roles have changed--who says a woman can't ask a guy to marry her? If they both know that's what they want and have communicated openly about their mutual desire for marriage and possibly, a family, then what does it matter who asks first, buys the ring, etc.?

On the other hand, I tend to be more of a traditionalist and conservative--my husband still opens every door for me, holds out my chair, and treats me like a "lady." I do not believe men and women are equal--I think women are far more special (

) and certain things like the joy and excitement of a marriage proposal from a man just seem deserved and appropriate, even in 2005. Whether it's a giant diamond in a rose-petal strewn suite at the Four Seasons, or a cigar band in the middle of a park on a sunny day, a woman deserves to be asked if she will do the man the priviledge of marrying him. Queenof hearts posted a thread about this very predicament (man is leery of "M word" so she is thinking of proposing...) and I just think there is something not quite right about this. It's just how I feel about it in my soul.

Now, in particular to your daughter's friend's situation, both the age and drinking concern me, too. Why rush this? I got engaged at 21, married at 23, but I have to say, I think we were very mature, on solid graduate school/career paths, jobs, and had excellent communication about what we wanted and where we were headed. Yeah, we had some rough spots (mostly money related--that's another thing) but the core foundation was there. My 25 year-old brother is no where near being as ready as I was at 21...or my husband was at 23.... it's different for diffferent people but this situation has several warning signs.

That's my .02. I hope everything turns out okay for this girl!

 

[teebee]

I agree with what huneynut had to say ~ seems like this marriage idea is a way of extending her overachieving personality into the social & emotional aspects of her life. I also wonder if her overachieving is a way for her to "control" things ~ I think that when we've suffered through some sort of huge emotional turmoil, like losing a mother, especially as a teenager/young adult, it is so disorienting to realize and feel that you have zero control over the situation. And maybe this proposal is a way for her to further exert control over a world she lost control of when she lost her mom. And for women, the proposal is generally an area that we have no control over and that can be a pretty helpless feeling.

I would also worry about their age more than the drinking. I mean, I know I drank WAY TOO MUCH at that age and all of my friends did too and I hardly drink that much anymore. BUT, since we all waited until we were older to get married (not me, yet!!), we were better able to judge who among us did have serious drinking problems. Once we were older and most of us had mellowed out & matured, it became obvious that those among us that continued to live life like we were still 21 were alcoholics. This guy MAY or MAY NOT have a drinking problem, but that may not be absolutely clear for a few years. But if he does, and they get married, she is in for a world of suffering. I've witnessed that kind of marriage up close and it is sad and scary.

Let us know what he said ~ very interesting.

Edited to add: I was just giving my boyfriend a hard time yesterday & saying that his proposal will probably consist of him casually tossing me the ring box & saying "hey, this came in the fedex today, you wanna wear it?" so I understand what your saying about the whole engagement "production" ~ I'd love to have something a little more romantic, but can't see it happening...

 

[Patty]

Well, he said yes. Her dad and his parents went to the party afterwards at the restaurant so I guess they are supportive.

I see two things going on...One, I''m curious about why more girls don''t propose in this day and age.

Two, I have concerns about their age and his drinking. (Although I got engaged and married at 21!)

Yes, losing her mom three years ago may have pushed her already overachieving personality into overdrive. And yes, I imagine having a sense of control feels pretty good to someone who had no control over that situation. She has had a LOT of tragedy in her life in the past 4-5 years although I don''t want to go into details.

As for the drinking, I am just going by what my daughter has told me. He''s had several DUIs and he joined AA for a bit. The friends all think he has a problem and the friends are all young and into partying. I guess it''s not the fact that they are young as much as her probably not realizing what she''s getting into. I have seen the misery that marriage to an alcoholic can cause and it''s not pretty.

Tee Bee...Our engagement wasn''t much more elaborate than that! But I''m very unromantic and I''ve warned my husband time and time again that I HATE PDAs.

 

[Patty]

And WHY did I post this in the Show Me the Ring forum?

 

[teebee]

Ah... well, the multiple DUIs... that''s beyond the scope of normal college/20-something drinking. I hope for both of their sakes it is a very very long engagement ~ either way, they probably have a tough road ahead of them.

I''m not sure why women don''t do more asking though ~ as for me, I guess I''m just pretty traditional, it''s never really ocurred to me to ask him. And I''m not very romantic either, my proposing would just be completely out of character and painfully awkward. Plus, I''m not in a financial position to buy myself a ring & I guess it would be bad form for me to propose and then take him shopping to buy me an engagement ring...

I''m not into PDA either, a nice simple heartfelt proposal would do it for me... but I''m afraid my boyfriend just isn''t the romantic type ~ if he tried anything too over-the top I''m afraid I might laugh.

Well, I will hope for the best regarding this girls situation...

 

[goldengirl]

Interesting. I hope her situation works out to her advantage.

For me personally, I don''t want to ask him. I want him to ask me. Call me traditional or romantic or just plain chicken, but I have *always* dreamed about the moment when that special guy drops to his knee and tells me he wants to spend the rest of his life with me. If it came to the point where I would have to propose if I wanted anything to happen, it wouldn''t be a "proposal", it would be more like a "hey, we should get married." "Yup." and I would always wish it had been different.

I think for a lot of women, us having this "superwoman" expectation where we''re men''s equals and can balance home & work and do everything all on our own... kinda makes us long even more for the gentlemen who will sweep us off our feet and treat us like ladies.

 

[fortheloveofdiamonds]

This is a really interesting thread.

About age: I am not sure about this one. Because she is an overachiever and a perfectionist, she might be a mature 21..it is not her, however, that is a concern, it is him. Does he possess the maturity to make this commitment. I got married when I was 22 and my husband was 28. We were both very mature and even more so now.

About the proposal: The way she is going about proposing to him...the hotel room, the champagne, the rose petals, the fancy dinner with all family and friends around... that makes me think that that is what she would have wanted him to do for her..you know what I am saying?? Unless he is a hopeless romantic, if a guy wanted to be proposed to, he''d probably be thinking of something different.

I wouldn''t have wanted to propose to my husband and I don''t think he would have wanted me to. There are things that are traditional and it is not because man is "better or stronger" that he should propose, but because..like J-flo said, women are special and they deserve something memorable and special. My friend didn''t get a proposal..they went to the store, he got the ring for her while she was there and she put it on and that was it.... he wanted to propose and do the big thing but she wanted the ring...so he caved and the other day she told me she regrets it and feels jaded about the whole thing?! I just think that some thing should be left to tradition.....we disregard it so often these days!

I don''t judge her, but I wouldn''t do it! Probably b/c we are not the same personality!

 

[appletini]

Several DUIs is a huge red flag. If one DUI wasn''t enough to encourage someone to be more cautious then nothing will. I''m sure that going to AA probably required by the court too.

Hopefully the engagement will be very long, and not to put a damper on this, but hopefully long enough that this young lady wises up, because it sounds like if she is an overacheiver then she needs to be with someone responsible that won''t hold her back.

 

[Momoftwo]

Like I said before the drinking is a bigger issue than the age. I''m not sure who "decided" that 21 is too young. When I got married at 21, most of my friends were married by 22 or 23. I still had some growing up to do, which I did with my husband. We''ve never had a real problem that we couldn''t work through and neither of us ever really thought about ending it or leaving. Our joke is divorce isnt'' allowed, murder is the only way out. My parents were both 20 and are still married and happy after 47 years. The bigger issue about age is the fact everyone thinks they need the "house" and "car" and "ring", etc before they get married. We had almost nothing and built what we have together, which is actually a lot now. I think that makes a huge difference. Almost 24 years and still going strong becuase it''s about the marriage, not the engagement or wedding or "stuff".

Believe me, you can''t change anyone''s mind about what they decide they want. Just be there for her and let her live her life. 21 is not too young. The "too young" is just an excuse. I know someone who got married at 28 after only a few months and it didnt'' work. They weren''t "young", but not really prepared and didnt'' really, really know each other. That''s the bigger issue. Telling someone they''re making a bad choice will just alienate them.

That said, I think proposing by the girl is an interesting idea, not one I would do, nor would my sons expect it, but interesting from the standpoint of the posts I''ve seen. As liberated as all the women think they are on this site, some are still are "waiting" for their proposal. It''s about the tradition, just as the romantic proposal, ring, dress, etc.

 

[windowshopper]

yes--sounds like me--and there was only one DUI. RUN LIKE THE WIND YOUNG FOOL! It took me four years of horrible marriage to get smart and realize I couldnt fix or manage everything and I couldnt fix him or his drinking problema and I walked..............wheew

 

[blue_chica]

You are absolutely right the girl can propose, I was debating it myself! I think it really depends on the people involved, honestly, as for who should do it. I decided to hold back because I am already the more "in-charge" person in my relationship, and I got the feeling he was looking forward to doing the whole manly proposal thing. I did get him a really nice watch (Tag Hauer Link Line) though, figuring I''ll give it to him when he proposes, then we both have something new and pretty to wear. Also, I do have some hangups about weddings and thought I might miss the whole bit about someone putting themselves out there for you.

I think if both members of a couple are still in college, it is probably too early to get engaged, even if either of the couple is still in college it''s tricky. I realize that it can work out, but the financial stability required for marriage is not there, and post-college plans can change a relationship a lot, or career/educational opportunities can be missed because of the relationship. Real-life is so different from college life I think it is very valuable to take the time to adjust without the pressure of marriage.

Just my $0.02. She sounds like a real catch either way though!

 

[Erin]

I''ve been waiting sooooo (too) long for my bf to propose and I sort of considered proposing to him because I couldn''t cope with the waiting anymore. However, after much introspection, I realized that I''ve been dreaming of how my wedding day could turn out since I was a little girl. He on the other hand, always knew some day he''d have the opportunity to do something creative and special - whatever he thought of for that special girl - when he decided to propose to ''the one.'' I couldn''t possibly take that moment away from him.