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Kelsey Smith

Discussion in 'Hangout' started by lumpkin, Jun 8, 2007.

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  1. lumpkin
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    by lumpkin » Jun 8, 2007
    This has not been a good week where I live. An 18 year old young woman was abducted from theTarget store nearest my house in day light and later murdered and dumped about 20 miles away. They have the 26 year old man who apparently did it. Kelsey was a cop''s daughter, and this guy is doomed.

    It''s a very sad world, and I have no heart to comment further.
     
    


    


  2. yellowsparkles
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    by yellowsparkles » Jun 8, 2007
    I know I saw that story on the internet. So sad. It is particulary hard when it is close to home.

    I have also been following the story of Madeleine - the little 4 yr old that was taken from a hotel room in Portugal. Her parents are British and will have to returen home sometime. It is a one in a million case. Just so hard...[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  3. lumpkin
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    by lumpkin » Jun 8, 2007
    The only reason they found her so quickly, and got the suspect was because her family and boyfriend were expecting her. When she didn''t arrive they started looking for her immediately. I really don''t know if the 24 hour rule was held to about allowing her to become a missing person, but her family was ON TOP of it. The Target video helped.

    Am I the only one who is completely dismayed at the horrible quality of security videos???? Good grief, how much would it cost to up the quality? Technology is so cheap right now, for heavens sake, UPGRADE the freaking surveilance equipment!!!

    The guy who did this is dead meat. He''s in such deep sh*t he can''t even imagine. It was apparently random, and he picked a cop''s daughter. Hopefully something positive will come out of this because so many people in law enforcement were involved.
     
  4. FireGoddess
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    by FireGoddess » Jun 8, 2007
    Don''t even get me started on the fact that places like Walmart don''t even HAVE security videos in the parking lots...[​IMG] Just ridiculous.

    So tragic. I too have also been following Madeleine''s story. [​IMG]
     
    


    


  5. Tacori E-ring
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    by Tacori E-ring » Jun 8, 2007
    DH and I saw the story on Nancy Grace last night. I feel horrible for the other missing girls'' family as well. They have yet to find her. They are wondering if the two cases were don''t by the same guy. It is scary that the 26 year old seemed "normal." Was married with a kid and took her in the middle of the day! It is so horrible. They said all the text messages helped them track her body and the suspect''s neighbor ID him from the video tape (so I guess the quality isn''t that bad). Her family seemed to be taking it as well as could be expected. I liked how they thanked law officals.
     
  6. lumpkin
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    by lumpkin » Jun 8, 2007
    I feel for them. They left their child alone in bed in a foreign country and I''m sure it never occurred to them that anything would happen -- they don''t live in the US, though, where half of us are scared to let our children play on the sidewalk unsupervised.
     
  7. FireGoddess
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    by FireGoddess » Jun 8, 2007
    Not to totally go off topic but isn''t it sad? We used to ride around with our bikes and skateboards all over TOWN when I was growing up. Now you can''t even turn your head. So bad.
     
  8. Love in Bloom
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    by Love in Bloom » Jun 8, 2007
    Just heartbreaking, lumpkin. It makes me so sad and so very angry that things like this happen in our society. Makes me think twice about having kids...I don''t think I could handle that if I was this woman''s mother.
     
  9. lumpkin
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    by lumpkin » Jun 8, 2007
    I am just really heartsick. You know FG, when I was a kid, we'd get up around 8:00 am, eat breakfast, do chores, and we were free until lunch time. After lunch we were free until dinner. I remember my parents being "so overprotective" because they wouldn't let me spend the night at friends' houses. Or go to parties where boys were. I'm amazed looking back at how much more freedom I had than I allow my children, and I always said I wouldn't keep my kids out of the world to protect them. Well, GUESS WHAT! I am.

    Today my older son went to a friend's house. Not to make a long story out of this, but the family does not track where this kid goes very well. Once my son was about 20 minutes late so I called over there, no one answered. ETA: He was at their house playing. I walked over there, no one answered the door. 10 minutes later I'm getting frantic, getting in the car to start looking for him, and the grandmother calls and says, "Oh...we were down in the basement and I didn't hear you." Then later that week the kids were at the pool and my husband needed to see about something and the family was there. He asked them if they'd watch our kids for about 5 minutes. He went back up to the pool and here's our then 4 year old running down the street. He asked her about it and she said, "Oh, well, I only lost ONE of them." and laughed. So today he runs home and says, "We're going to the pool, they invited me!" No call to me, no communication whatsoever, no time table, nada. Now keep in mind I'm extremely laid back. I'm very spontaneous and not a big planner, so I can go with the flow. But these people have no clue! We seem to be a magnet for this type -- I wonder if I'm sending out the wrong "It's cool" vibes. But I don't think so. This gal acts like I'm so uptight I squeak when I walk. [​IMG]
     
  10. FireGoddess
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    by FireGoddess » Jun 8, 2007
    hahahha....NOT. [​IMG][​IMG]
     
    


    


  11. dianne
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    by dianne » Jun 8, 2007
    lumpkin and FireGoddess, I am so-o-o-o with you here. I am amazed at how far technology has come yet it is not applied to security cameras. It''s crazy! There are satellites in space that can focus in on a coin on a sidewalk and tell if it''s a nickel or a dime but can''t get clear pictures in a store entrance or parking lot from a short distance. Even in some of the security footage shown on TV you can see the "criminal" look right at the camera and if I knew the person I am not sure I would recognize them. I don''t get it!!![​IMG]
     
  12. monarch64
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    by monarch64 » Jun 8, 2007
    My DH and I have talked hypothetically about situations like these before, and he always says if it were his daughter the guy who hurt her should better hope the cops got to him before HE did. [​IMG] Target, for pete''s sake, is there no place a woman can feel somewhat safe in this world anymore? It makes me sick, really.
     
  13. mrssalvo
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    by mrssalvo » Jun 8, 2007
    that''s what got me. I''m at target all the time and this poor girl was there in DAYLIGHT kidnapped in the parking lot. yes, the camera''s helped but it was too late. the whole thing is so heartbreaking, i can''t begin to know what her parents must be feeling.

    re: the little Madaline. that whole thing is strage to me, mainly b/c in the US you would never leave a tiny child alone in a hotel room or even in your own house. apparantly the parents were eating at a tapas bar very near by and went back to check on the kids every 30 minutes. I can''t help but think some sicko caught on to the pattern and knew he''d have time to get in and out while the parents were gone. I just can''t imagine leaving my kids asleep and going out to eat. that is such a sad story as well
    [​IMG]
     
  14. AmberWaves
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    by AmberWaves » Jun 8, 2007
    That is so so sad... As for Madeleine, her parents left her with her two year old twin siblings- alone while they went to eat. Is that normal in other countries? Even if the children are asleep? I feel terribly that there is a little girl out there, who knows where, and the guilt her parents must be feeling... but do you leave them alone like that, in a foreign country?

    It''s sad that we''re all so guarded of our children and family, and it''s even sadder that it''s gotten this bad. Times have changed.
     
  15. Kaleigh
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    by Kaleigh » Jun 8, 2007
    There can be a very false sense of security at these resorts. I watch too many shows on this. You really have to approach your vacation with all eyes and ears open. That means having proper supervision of your kids by sitters that you have interviewed while going out to dine. Kids are your most precious posession, and you need to make sure you are leaving them in proper care. I know these parents checked on their kids, but now Madeleine is gone. The perp probably was watching for a window of opportunity. Our job as parents is to narrrow that window, and be vigilant. Especially on Vacation, can''t let your guard down!!!
     
    


    


  16. diamondfan
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    by diamondfan » Jun 8, 2007
    It is so sad. As a mom we worry so much about younger kids, but she was a young adult, and it was still light out. Just a terrible world we live in. He was married with a young son. What on earth was his motive? He just decided to kill someone and picked her? It is so awful I cannot believe it. Thank god for the tape and that her cell phone signal was traced but it is just such a terrible tragedy no matter what.
     
  17. Beacon
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    by Beacon » Jun 8, 2007
    I saw this story and it is very startling. I wondered what the motive was, but it turns out to be just random? Is that how it is? That is too crazy. Horrible.

    A friend of mine who used to live there said that is a perfectly safe neighborhood. So was this killer just a crazy guy with a split life?

    I feel so sorry for all involved. The only mercy is that they caught him and fast, before he could do any more harm. It really got to me, utterly senseless loss of a beautiful young girl.
     
  18. Mara
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    by Mara » Jun 8, 2007
    the world is very sad nowadays. honestly i don't think anyone is safe at any time. i try not to be 'paranoid' about things because that is no way to live your life, but you really don't know when something might happen to you. so many lives are taken in random, senseless acts or 'wrong place, wrong time' kind of scenarios. you can't hide in your house forever so you just have to make the best of it i guess. things were different when we were younger for sure, i used to walk home from school and hang out under our huge tree in our front yard and wait for my mom to come home after school (she got home like 20 min after i did). we had a really safe, friendly, TRUE neighborhood where people looked out for each other's kids. it makes you really wonder 'what changed' and so quickly? i don't even really trust having portia alone on the patio for more than a few minutes, because that's not safe either....people take cute dogs all the time too.

    i don't really watch the news at all, i find it very depressing, so i don't really know much about what goes on out there other than what greg tells me. sometimes i read the newspapers aka when we travel. this is the first i have heard of the target kidnapping...i saw a bit of the madeline stuff i think when we were traveling on the news in the airports. it is very odd to me that the parents would leave their children alone while they go out to eat and esp in a foreign country...it is surely sad that the little girl is gone, i just imagine the guilt the parents must feel, i think i would be just beside myself knowing that we were out having a fab meal and my kid was being taken because i didn't want to get take-out or whatever. the whole thing is just sad.
     
  19. bee*
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    by bee* » Jun 9, 2007
    Nope I don''t think that it''s normal in other countries-I don''t know anyone that would do that in Ireland. As someone said, I think when you''re staying in those resorts, there is a false sense of security. I just hope that they find the little girl-it''s terrible. They really shouldn''t have left her alone.
     
  20. decodelighted
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    by decodelighted » Jun 9, 2007
    I always remember the advice "Don''t go willingly to the 2nd location". Fight like hell & get shot or whatever WHERE YOU ARE. Things never get better -- only way, way worse.

    From the security video it does look like she fought. Which just makes it even more horrible. Do we really need to carry stun guns or mace EVERYWHERE? Would that even have made a difference in this suprise daylight attack? Ugh.
     
  21. phoenixgirl
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    by phoenixgirl » Jun 9, 2007
    I've been following the case too. Steve Huff is a crime blogger who has been picked up to write for Court TV's website, so sometimes I check to see what he has to say about different cases.

    It's definitely very scary. Apparently the suspect was adopted out of foster care as a child but was removed from the house at 15 for threatening his sister with a knife. He then spent three years in juvenile detention, and he can't have gotten married long after that. He has several online profiles with references to slasher movies and cannibalism (his names were always murderers from those movies). Somebody should have seen this coming.

    Additionally, another girl about the same age, Kara Kopetsky, disappeared a month ago from the same area. Was this not his first crime? [​IMG]

    My mother-in-law married someone who was still in prison (her penpal) who had been sent there for twice attacking/stalking/kidnapping women (managed to plea bargain out of rape). She's all, "You are so horrible for not accepting my husband!" (he's out now). But I know that someone who has a history of this type of violence is much more likely to escalate it than to be miraculously cured. She's obviously got issues just to have put herself in that situation, so our relationship with her would probably be strained regardless. But there's one thing I know . . . my decision not to meet her husband (shared by my husband and all his siblings and spouses) will not change.
     
  22. diamondfan
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    by diamondfan » Jun 9, 2007
    First, I would never leave my kids alone in a hotel room. I am sure they will regret that decision for the rest of their lives, those children were much too young to be left alone for any period of time like that. My 14 year old and 12 year old and 5 year old were just with us Memorial Day at a hotel in Maryland and we were just walking into the main building to have dinner and I STILL hired a sitter, because who knows? My 14 year old could be in the bathroom and my 5 year old could fall and hurt himself, and I just do not think it is worth the worry so I can go out to dinner, even though of course they have my cell phone number (my 14 and 12 year olds) and know to call me. (though I am such a lunatic I worry is the sitter a weirdo but that is another story)

    Growing up we used to disappear on bikes til dinner. No cell phones, remember. We just took off. We wandered in parks, went all over, random stuff. I would NEVER do that now with my kids. For a lot of reasons, including that the kids have Ipods on and are on cell phones to friends and are also distracted about school and tests and general life, and pedophiles are good at looking for kids who are just a little bit unfocused from what is going on.

    I live on a cul de sac and my husband thinks I should let my kids roam around on it. But I have seen various workers in their trucks, gardeners, painters, etc, driving up and down my street. I am not worried about my neighbors per se, but I have NO control over who is on my street who either is there to work and might be person with bad intentions toward kids, or just might be someone cruising looking for trouble. Just terrifies me totally. Good friends of ours told me a story that their son was having some construction done, and had a contractor they knew well working on their home. He had access to their home for months doing a major renovation. One day, for some reason, the man of the house, this woman''s grown son, went into the area where the work was being done and discovered his 12 year old daughter''s underwear was in one of the newer workman''s tool box. They called the owner of the firm and the police. But, the scary thing is, he could have gotten a copy of the house key from his boss for some reason, and the girl would likely have not paid much attention to him because she would have been used to seeing him in her house over a period of weeks. He could have gotten her out of the house before anyone noticed a thing.

    You cannot forbid your kids to leave your side, but still, one bad call and your life is forever changed. I know people with teenagers who talk about being afraid even on cruise ships because there were stories of young girls being raped on ships while the parents were off somewhere on board. This is just a disgusting world we live in. My son thinks I am way too overprotective of him, he is 14 and tells me I am the only mom who doesn''t blah blah and this and that, which I do not care one way or the other. I know him, he is a great kid, and even pretty savvy, but if he is thinking about a big test coming up, or if he is upset because a girl he likes was not paying attention to him or something, he might not be paying attention and be able to react quickly if he needed to.
     
  23. phoenixgirl
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    by phoenixgirl » Jun 9, 2007
    I definitely think the parents who left their toddlers alone were negligent, but Kelsey Smith didn't do anything wrong by going to Target in daylight. She looked like she was walking quickly and purposely in the footage. I have pepper spray in my purse but I definitely couldn't grab it as fast as she would have needed to.

    I'm not sure I'm following the reasoning that technology = distracted kids = never letting them be out on their own. I think that their level of distraction and ability to take care of themselves is something that parents can and should help them with. I wouldn't just throw my hands up and say, "Oh well, my kids have an iPod, I'll have to keep them on a tight leash." As a high school teacher, I would say that most 14 year old boys, save those with special needs, should be learning to take care of themselves. JMHO.
     
  24. Tacori E-ring
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    by Tacori E-ring » Jun 9, 2007
    I 100% agree!
     
  25. jas
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    by jas » Jun 9, 2007
    I teach middle schoolers (at least for 3 more days) and I see an odd mix of too much "responsibility/no parental involvement" and protectiveness.

    I gave the kids an assignment to create their own fractured fairy tales. One group wanted to do "Goldilocks and the Three Pedophiles."

    That is their world now.

    ETA -- it's odd. On the one hand,yes they are aware of it and many kids are quite alert. On the other hand, the kids can sometimes get so scared of this message they can become socially paralyzed. Too, I've seen them joking around about "stranger danger" or seriously calling male substitute teachers "pedophiles" just because the sub is a little odd. It's just so sad.

    I'm not saying not to warn kids, and quite frankly I'd like them to err on the side of caution, but sheesh, they don't even trick or treat anymore (unless the houses hand out candy with address labels on it, which is a new trend I've seen).
     
  26. Maisie
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    by Maisie » Jun 9, 2007
    I wouldn''t say this is typical of British families. I don''t know anyone who would leave their children alone in an apartment on holiday or at home. Its very sad but I do feel they should bear some responsiblity. If they didn''t leave them alone this wouldn''t have happened.
     
  27. oshinbreez
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    by oshinbreez » Jun 9, 2007
    I can pretty much remember when things started going down hill in our society. Alot of you probably won''t agree with me, which is find.

    Up until the time I was in 4th grade, we had PRAYER in school. Every morning was started off with prayer and the pledge.

    In 6th grade, bussing started for our school. "The kids on the other side of town don''t get as good of an education as the kids over on this side".

    When I was in high school, we had metal detectors installed on the main door to the school. The high school I went to was considered the "best" as far as athletics and academics in my hometown.

    My parents took me to church, taught me right from wrong, SPANKED me, punished me when I did wrong, and LOVED me. I was given their trust until I messed up. Then, after punishment, they''d trust me again. I always had chores to do. TV was limitied to 1 hour a day per child. We also had a time limit on the phone. I couldn''t wear make up until I was 15. I couldn''t date until 15 either, and that was only for church or school activities and with a group. We didn''t have video games, had to keep music turned down to not disturb any one else in the house. We had to ask permission before we did anything. And just because "everyone else" did it, didn''t mean I got to. I learned that if I wanted something, I had to EARN it, it wasn''t just given to me. We didn''t have any designer clothes. In fact, I remember when mom got her 1st pair of Nike''s she was clipping the embroidered "Nike" logo off because she said they cost enough, she wasn''t going to give them free advertising.

    Thngs were alot simplier in those days. And honestly, they were a whole lot nicer.
     
  28. diamondfan
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    by diamondfan » Jun 9, 2007
    I am just saying I would be very clear with my kids when they are out since I see the teen agers at the mall and Starbucks and on bikes with their Ipods on etc, and they do not pay attention to things and it is so dangerous. I see them ride into traffic or step off into traffic and not hear car horns because they are on the phone or have the Ipod in their ears and they just need to know that a bit of extra focus when out in the streets is important.

    And of course no, a child or adult, should have to fear being abducted, raped or killed. My only point was it is negligent to leave three young kids in a hotel room to go have dinner. Kelsey was an adult, and no one would be thinking twice about running an errand in daylight to a busy store, nor should they have to, but now these creeps and sick people are literally lying in wait to grab people from parking lots.
     
  29. indecisive
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    by indecisive » Jun 9, 2007
    It is so hard when terrible things happen in your "home". I am pretty much still reeling from what happened at Virginia Tech that I haven''t really had it in me to listen to all these other bad things that have been happening. You just never know. I felt way more safe at VT than most other places and it does make you think about safety way more often. Most of all though I think we need to be happy and grateful for every day we are alive and with our loved ones. It still hasn''t sunk in that my friend is gone forever but I do know I need to show my friends and family how much they mean to me, because there may not always be the chance to. I hope your community will pull together and help her family get through this.
     
  30. lumpkin
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    by lumpkin » Jun 9, 2007
    I'm with you all on the parental issues of not being your child's friend, being a parent, and making decisions that your kids may not like. They will NOT have a My Space page or any other type of thing. I'll yank the doggone cable out of the house myself if it comes to that. Both girls had a My Space page and so did the suspect they have in custody.

    The Kelsey Smith Target abduction is horrible. This IS a SAFE neighborhood. She wasn't alone at a bar, drunk, picking up guys she didn't know -- she did nothing to put herself in harm's way. And as a cop's daughter I'm sure she was taught at least rudimentary self defense. It's really scarey.

    I completely agree about contractors/work men in the neighborhood. We have a lot of them -- people are constantly working on their houses. I'm not worried about any of our neighbors right now, but I don't know who's having what done on the next block, so I supervise them. I hate the ice cream truck. You have no idea who is driving it and whether or not they're preditors. Unfortunately, I don't think there's much we can do to discourage them except not buy from them. But there are always those people who do and it's just enough for them to come back. Whenever I see them I look them over very carefully and I'm not discrete about it, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm looking at you and if you do anything around here I'll know how to describe you!" I don't SAY that, but I put on the body language. Same with the work men.

    We had something really scary happen, and now I'm super careful. We had a contractor referred to us, and we used him. When he was here he was waaaaaayyyyyy too friendly and I kept thinking, "Time is money for these guys, why is he hanging around, the job's done." I finally said, "Please go, I've got stuff to do and I can't hang around talking." He said he had some other stuff to finish and went around our house in back. I thought it was weird, and I didn't like it and though it was creepy. A while later someone told us they found him on the registered sex offender list. Even if someone is referred to you, check them out. Find out about their family, friends, etc. and ifsomething is off, don't use them, even if the price is right.
     
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