Just bought a radiant engagement ring

[vince187]

Well, I have the stone. It is perfectly eye clean, and I can usually see inclusions in GIA graded SI1 stones.

It is a very well cut stone, at least to the degree I can judge cut. The crown might be small but overall it is much better than most radiants I see. I was definitely expecting worse symmetry from photos and EGL "Good" rating.

From what I can tell in this lighting, it only "looks like a F/G color" in total darkness, but the lighting is weird here and my office is all tan colored. I am very disappointed in Abazias, they should have told me it looks like an VS1 'M' GIA graded stone and I would have taken my fiance shopping again to find out if this was acceptable or arranged to view it.

 

[rubybeth]

From what I can tell in this lighting, it only "looks like a F/G color" in total darkness, but the lighting is weird here and my office is all tan colored. I am very disappointed in Abazias, they should have told me it looks like an VS1 'M' GIA graded stone and I would have taken my fiance shopping again to find out if this was acceptable or arranged to view it.

I am sorry if this seems rude, I don't mean it to be that way. You bought an EGL K and are surprised/upset that it looks like a GIA M? We warned you that EGL can be off on clarity and color grading, and you said that color wasn't a concern. Being off by 2 color grades isn't even all that much. Radiants especially hold body color (which is why fancy colored diamonds are cut to be radiants).

Are you going to return this stone and start over with a vendor that provides images?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Vince- there's actually a very common desire, not only geeks.
Many people want to be able to use numbers to pick a stone.
If we're speaking of certain types of diamonds, like Ideal Cut round brilliant cuts H&A- numbers make a difference.
But not fancy shapes- radiant cuts in particular.
Those worse than useless cut charts simply pile onto the confusion. 1b is better than 2a unless it's Sunday and raining. Really misleading, and not helpful to consumers.
Light can take many paths- and given that it will reflect many times inside a well cut radiant, that kind of blunts the ability to compare two stones with seemingly identical numbers.
Small changes in facet size, placement and angle can completely change light paths.

If you're a gambler, a casino offers WAY better odds than trying to beat the people who cut and deal in diamonds regarding lab reports.
GIA is the equalizer.

 

[UberClaire]

What inclusions are present in the stone that give it an SI1 rating? The EGL report seemed to have no marks on the facet chart -- are there unmarked clouds present?

 

[Christina...]

Vince- there's actually a very common desire, not only geeks.
Many people want to be able to use numbers to pick a stone.
If we're speaking of certain types of diamonds, like Ideal Cut round brilliant cuts H&A- numbers make a difference.
But not fancy shapes- radiant cuts in particular.
Those worse than useless cut charts simply pile onto the confusion. 1b is better than 2a unless it's Sunday and raining. Really misleading, and not helpful to consumers.
Light can take many paths- and given that it will reflect many times inside a well cut radiant, that kind of blunts the ability to compare two stones with seemingly identical numbers.
Small changes in facet size, placement and angle can completely change light paths.

If you're a gambler, a casino offers WAY better odds than trying to beat the people who cut and deal in diamonds regarding lab reports.
GIA is the equalizer.

nice analogy!

I also agree with Rubybeth. You said that you understood that EGL was more lenient in their grading, so I don't understand why you feel misled. Had you been one of the uninformed consumers that purchased an EGL stone under the impression that grading was equal among all labs, then I would have an easier time sympathizing with you, but you had been warned and stated repeatedly that you understood. I don't think it's fair of you to be upset with Abazias, you should be disappointed with yourself for having joined a consumer diamond forum, where many posters offered you advice and guidance concerning EGL grading, and for not taking that advice. PS is a consumer forum, established to help other consumers navigate the complicated process of purchasing a diamond. You joined and decided to disregard the advice and information made available to you.

That said, you don't know that stone is a GIA M, you need to have the diamond appraised by an independent appraiser, that does not sell jewelry, only then will you be able to determine what the correct color grading is. It's possible your diamond is comparable to a GIA M or it may be a P, or maybe it's a J, you don't know and can't know until either you have it appraised or graded by GIA.

edited typos

 

[Rockdiamond]

Thanks Christina- I do want to make a point about appraisers- and how they relate to this discussion.
A diamond graded by EGL has a given value- if it's being purchased by a dealer, they'll "self grade" and assign a value.
An appraisal done by a highly regarded appraiser will have ZERO bearing on the valuation- less than the EGL report, if you can believe that.

 

[Christina...]

Thanks Christina- I do want to make a point about appraisers- and how they relate to this discussion.
A diamond graded by EGL has a given value- if it's being purchased by a dealer, they'll "self grade" and assign a value.
An appraisal done by a highly regarded appraiser will have ZERO bearing on the valuation- less than the EGL report, if you can believe that.

Sadly I can believe it. And yet most PSers wouldn't purchase an EGL diamond without having it thoroughly and accurately evaluated by a trusted PS vendor or appraiser. So essentially, many of us feel that it's the EGL report that is worthless. Go figure.

edit: Perhaps I shouldn't say 'worthless', but without other reassurances, an EGL report and what it says are worth very little to me.

 

[CushionCutie]

RE: the pic Vince posted, are radiants supposed to be cut this way? It looks wonky to me, someone please correct me if i'm wrong since I have zero knowledge of radiants! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3322562/Diamonds/2.png

 

[Rockdiamond]

RE: the pic Vince posted, are radiants supposed to be cut this way? It looks wonky to me, someone please correct me if i'm wrong since I have zero knowledge of radiants! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3322562/Diamonds/2.png

Hi CC,
Radiant cuts present unique challenges - because there are many variations that are nice- some amazing, and others....well, less so.
I would not use a photo to make the "wonky" assessment though- as a small change in angle to the lens can distort the image.

 

[CushionCutie]

RE: the pic Vince posted, are radiants supposed to be cut this way? It looks wonky to me, someone please correct me if i'm wrong since I have zero knowledge of radiants! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3322562/Diamonds/2.png

Hi CC,
Radiant cuts present unique challenges - because there are many variations that are nice- some amazing, and others....well, less so.
I would not use a photo to make the "wonky" assessment though- as a small change in angle to the lens can distort the image.

Ahh, ok! Thanks for clarifying RD!

 

[webdiva]

Vince, hopefully one of the alternates we posted works for your budget. Hopefully we can turn that disappointment into happiness that we found you something better! Post up your budget and we'll be happy to find something. Alternately, ID Jewelry is great about maximizing a budget and perhaps they can help!

 

[vince187]

Amazing how much a change lighting makes. What was a 'M' at best in my office could easily be a 'D' in direct sunlight or other situations. The blue from fluorescence, although subtle, is much more visible than any hint of yellow. What is even more amazing is the contrast with the diamond melee (supposed to be 'G' color). In my office this morning I had a yellow diamond with white melee. Now the center stone is subtly colder. Who knows what lighting the jeweler used, so 'looks like an F/G' could easily be a real observation. Keep in mind they weren't grading, appraising or otherwise assessing the stone, only setting it.

My office has lots of indirect florescent lighting and natural sunlight so I am amazed it looked as bad as it did. The yellow is noticeable if you look for it under incandescent lighting, but not even close to as bad as it looked this morning.

I did find what looks like a feather (or multiple feathers close together). Even knowing where it is, I can't see it from the table looking down, but it isn't hard to spot looking up through the right part of the pavilion. I would bet a trained grader can see it with a loupe looking down.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Vince--it sounds like you are happy with your ring/choice/decision--and that is what is important here.

Come back and show us hand shots after you've proposed!!

cheers--Sharon

 

[yssie]

Amazing how much a change lighting makes. What was a 'M' at best in my office could easily be a 'D' in direct sunlight or other situations. The blue from fluorescence, although subtle, is much more visible than any hint of yellow. What is even more amazing is the contrast with the diamond melee (supposed to be 'G' color). In my office this morning I had a yellow diamond with white melee. Now the center stone is subtly colder. Who knows what lighting the jeweler used, so 'looks like an F/G' could easily be a real observation. Keep in mind they weren't grading, appraising or otherwise assessing the stone, only setting it.

My office has lots of indirect florescent lighting and natural sunlight so I am amazed it looked as bad as it did. The yellow is noticeable if you look for it under incandescent lighting, but not even close to as bad as it looked this morning.

I did find what looks like a feather (or multiple feathers close together). Even knowing where it is, I can't see it from the table looking down, but it isn't hard to spot looking up through the right part of the pavilion. I would bet a trained grader can see it with a loupe looking down.

What you're seeing is something a lot of other PSers have noticed - lower coloured stones do tend to be pretty chameleon. The exact colour can vary quite a bit depending on lighting. With more colourless stones (or strongly coloured stones) the colour is more static through a variety of lighting types.

 

[2023]

Hi Vince,

Congratulations on proposing soon! I find the colour quite noticeable in the photos and the combination of a larger diamond size (2 carat) and the radiant cut the colour is the very first thing I noticed in the ring. Your girlfriend sounds like she wants a ring big and flashy, if the diamond is low in colour grade I think people will notice that more over size. ie pples comments will be (to themselves)...thats a yellow diamond and looks strange, rather than thats a really bright sparkly big e ring (and you said she wanted flashy and maybe something a little to 'show off' and not a fancy colour). Halos can add size and make diamonds appear larger and she did say she wants a halo. I know 2ct was her absolute cut off, but if she knew how noticeably yellower the diamond was would she still want that, over a higher colour, smaller stone but with a halo to get the maximum bling effect. You mentioned your budget was 10k I understand that makes things harder. I think your girlfriend as she is very particular has to understand the amount of yellow she will see. sorry have gone on a lot! Hood luck

 

[2023]

Hi Vince, I just went back and read one of your previous posts that said your gf first liked a CZ 2ct cushion with a halo and then a 'horribly included' 3 carat diamond stone when she figured out the other ring was a CZ. It seems she is totally hung up on size with no relation to quality. If this goal is in wanting to impress people a yellow, included and not sparkly ring in a big size will not make people impressed. It seems you've had a lot of feedback in past posts... but make sure the diamond is beautiful regardless of the size. If your gf does not know a lot about diamonds (which you mentioned), the 2ct seems like an arbitrary figure thats been given to you due to the first ring she liked...which was a cubic zirconia. Thats a very different target to replicate when talking real diamonds...(which I do admire you are trying your hardest to do on your budget regardless). I do hope you and your future fiance are happy with what you end up buying