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JFK Assassination

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JOEBIALEK

Rough_Rock
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Perhaps known as one of the greatest murder mysteries of all time, the assassination of President John F. Kennedy has for years intrigued scholars, authors and the average American citizen. The assassination can be classified into two distinct categories: method and significance. Few would argue that too much emphasis has been given to the method and very little to the significance. This is exactly how the perpetrators would like it to be. Photographic evidence along with eyewitness testimony has already conclusively proven that JFK was shot by more than one assassin. The Mary Mormon photo clearly shows the profile of a shooter behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll. It is obviously someone wearing a policeman''s uniform {some speculate it was J.D. Tippit}. This was the fatal head shot. Two other bullets struck the President; the first one entered at the base of the throat and the second struck him in the back. While the positions of the assassins makes for a good game of clue, the more important issue is the significance of the assassination.

Many have speculated that the former Soviet Union, Cuba, the KKK, the Mafia, LBJ, CIA and the FBI all had strong motives to attempt this. However, given the connection of Lee Harvey Oswald to the CIA and Jack Ruby to the Mafia along with the altered autopsy reports, the evidence points to a coup de'' dat by the CIA. They did it because they believed JFK was taking the United States on the wrong path towards dealing with communism. That is the reason why the cover-up has been sustained for so long. The perpetrators honestly believed they were doing the right thing for the United States at the time. The will of the people was discarded in favor of preserving the nation as they saw fit. Unfortunately, they didn''t realize the long term effects of the assassination. One result was the increased power of capitalism over democracy. Profit has become more important than freedom. Corporations are more concerned with increasing the wealth of a select few than with promoting the general welfare of the very nation that allows them to conduct business. A second result has been the subordination of this nation''s civil liberties to the private agendas of the powers that be. The only opinions that are accepted today are those that further the bottom line. Contrary opinions are discouraged and distorted by spin doctors. The only explanation for the lack of attention given to the significance of the assassination is because the government, the military and the media all know what happened and to expose the event for what it really was goes to the central core of what constitutes the United States of America.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I did it.
I was hired by the cia, kgb, castro and the mob.


I even managed to do it before I was born using magic.

That makes more sence than what you posted :}
 

rubydick

Shiny_Rock
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Sep 27, 2004
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Strmrdr,

May I respectfully disagree. This is one subject that has literally been studied to death. And the evidence is overwhelming that there was more than one shooter. More than one shooter means a conspiracy, and more than one shooter means a massive cover-up, stretching into the highest levels of government.

Could the Mafia have done it? Yes, they could have done the shooting. But they could not have altered the autopsy photos, they could not have organized the Secret Service standown, they could not have organized the cover-up of the Warren Commission.

Who did it? Look who covered it up. The Warren Commission was headed by a man (CIA director Alan Dulles) who Kennedy fired over the Bay of Pigs affair. Sweet. A President gets shot and let's appoint the man he fired to investigate. Wanna find out who did it? Who appointed Dulles?

Gerald Ford was on the Warren Commision, the same man who took the VP post with the nod that when President he would pardon Nixon and thus keep Nixon's ass out of jail.

It gets better. The man who is credited with the "magic bullet theory" is none other than Arlen Spector, who was an investigator on the Warren Commission.

And it gets even better. One of the Watergate burglars, E. Howard Hunt, was involved. A trial actually occurred regarding his involvement. He couldn't even get his own wife and children to vouch for his alibi. He lost. Remember, the Watergate burglars were Cuban. The same gang that was later involved in Iran-Contra (Google Felix Rodriguez and CIA for a sample).

So who killed Kennedy? It was a combination of forces, not unlike those who gathered together to put Dubya on the throne. Texas oil men, heavy-duty industrialists, CIA dissidents, anti-Castro Cubans and the mob.

How 'bout the Oliver Stone movie? Funny, it was being attacked even before it was finished. So who killed Kennedy? Again, who tried to stifle the discussion?

I'm sure many are now rolling their eyes. Is he serious? Yes, I am. Deadly so. I'll be happy to debate any and all on this subject anytime. Just stick to the issues, keep the BS personal attacks (yes, Rodent, that means you), to a minimum.

What is the lesson of JFK's assassination (and RFK's and MLK's)? Conspiracies exist. With a few millennia of human history behind us, why this should surprise anyone is unbelievable. Guess this is testiment to the numbing effects of television.

A recent Gallup poll said that only half of all Americans could name the current Secretary of State. Is our children learnin'? We really need to go back to reading, and we should start with Shakespeare.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/20/2006 8:15:01 PM
Author: strmrdr
I did it.
I was hired by the cia, kgb, castro and the mob.


I even managed to do it before I was born using magic.

That makes more sence than what you posted :}
LOL as I spit my morning coffee.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Crazies abound. Shooting Ronald Reagan for Jodi Foster? Shooting John Lennon?
 

perry

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Did you ever consider that it all was a hoax.

JFK and Elvis have both been seen since their reported deaths - even together enhoying a meal according to one report.


They just needed to "drop out" for a while... Too much pressure in the public eye; again according to one source. They have probably even have died from "old age" by now...


How do you sort out what is true - what is hype - and what is a hoax...



Perry
 

rubydick

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
321
Date: 2/21/2006 8:40:23 PM
Author: perry
Did you ever consider that it all was a hoax.

JFK and Elvis have both been seen since their reported deaths - even together enhoying a meal according to one report.

They just needed to ''drop out'' for a while... Too much pressure in the public eye; again according to one source. They have probably even have died from ''old age'' by now...

How do you sort out what is true - what is hype - and what is a hoax...

Perry

Perry,

Ah, another truth seeker with a sense of humor. Which is why I always take seriously what you write.

One could make an argument about Christ. Was it all a hoax? There are some serious academics who have argued thus. Check out the Dead Sea Scrolls Deception for an interesting take on that idea.

Thankfully the documentation on JFK rests on a bit more solid ground. Did Christ exist and if he did, what was he about? We have a bunch of stories, but little else. With JFK, we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he did live, and we have a fantastic body of documentary evidence about not just his existence, but about how he died.

What I find remarkable today in America''s body politic is that a large slice is content to completely accept the flimsiest evidence that Christ lived, and yet they happily ignore much stronger evidence that JFK was killed by a team of shooters.

Let me suggest just one case study, that of global warming. BushCo. has done their best to dismiss the idea. When many scientists declared their belief that this was a real threat, Bush dissed the idea. He said "we''ll study it." And when his own scientists said it was real, he suppressed their reports.

This is not unlike the execution of JFK. Despite reams of evidence to the contrary, the fairy tale is continually repeated that one lone nut shot him.

Conspiracies exist. Even if you buy into Bush''s 9/11 version of events, you have to admit that this represented a massive conspiracy that involved tens if not hundreds of individuals. How did they keep it secret?

The true answer is that, with both JFK and 9/11, they didn''t. There were leaks, major bleeds. These leaks were and are available to any and all who take the time to study the subject.

But, sadly, most do not take the time to study the evidence. Instead, they wave the hand, brush it away based on nothing more solid than personal prejudice. They are content to label something as "conspiracy theory." Perhaps it helps them sleep soundly at night. Bush is good, Christ is my salvation.

And where does this lead us. Into a place where Christians and Jews talk about "terrorists" while Muslims display similar prejudice, obsessing about generations of Christian/Jewish imperialism that has not just invaded their countries, but labeled all those who resist as "savages" and "terrorists."

Wanna create world peace? Start with accepting others as equals, rather than "terrorists," "savages" or "serfs." It works both ways. We in the West need to examine our own history with a critical eye, and those in the Muslim world need to do the same. There is plenty of blame to spread around, so none will do without.
 

perry

Ideal_Rock
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Richard.

Someday it'd be nice to meet. You're my kind of guy. Not saying that we agree on everything - but you have the essance of the right approach on things and am not upset by another with a different point of view.

So what is a conspiracy.... I see several levels of what happens:

Case 1) A person - or group of people - who know the truth; but want a differernt response than what the truth would bring - goes out and deliberately presents falsehoods in order to gain their point of view. Many people do this on a personal level - and some of us just lable them as "liars" - up to thieves depending on the result.

Case 2) A person - or group of people - who believe they know the truth (but don't actually know - and are not interested in digging further because that would challange their beilef); and then unknowingly presents falsehoods in order to gain their point of view. Again, many people do this on a personal level - and some of us just lable them as "misguided," "uneducated," or even the common "stupid" ("crazy" comes to mind for some examples of this).

Case 3) A person - or group of people - who just act on what they are presented without any serious thought or investigation because it "sounds" or "feels" right at the moment and may support a vauge idea or goal that they have and is not against a strong personal belief. Again, many people do this on a personal level - and some of us just lable them as "misguided," "uneducated," or even the common "stupid" ("crazy" comes to mind for some examples of this).


Of course the most insidious examples are where a person - or a group of people - knowing the truth decide to present falshoods to a people in the second groupe - where what is presented to them fits into their beliefs. This second group then makes a public issue of it and a lot of people from the third group join in because it just seems "right" at the moment.

So, I accept that there are consipriacies everywhere - the only question is at what level - and to how much damage.

Personally, I am more concerned about case 2. Case 1 is easily dealt with when it is identified. But case 2. People will literally often be willing to die before examiining their beliefs and the basis for their actions, and wether they are acting based on good information or not. Case 3 justs adds dymainc to the situation - although the most affect can come from case 3 if driven by case 2.

Concerning Jesus Christ: Several years ago I dug into that isssue. My conclusion is that their is sufficient evidence to indicate that he did exist, and that he was a "troublemaker" to the estblished norms of the day - there is some evidence outside of the bible on this. However, really good evidence on what he actually did or said, does not exist except for the stories in the biblical new testament (which were not written until well after his death).

As far as JFK goes. The real truth does exist - and it may or may not support the single shooter scenerio. The Kennedy family closed the autopsy reports that would answer many questions regarding what kind of bullet did what to JFK. In my mind the single shooter idea is still plausable; but the arranged by a team shooting is also plausable.

I also agree with your point that the biggest step to peace is having tolerance and accepting that other people are different (or have different standards) and that - that does not make them a bad person. However, there is in fact good agreement amoung all major religions on certain forms of "bad" behaviour - so that we, and they, can in fact justly condem certain behaviours as unaceptable to civilized society. The most troubling thing here is that people caught up in my case 2 above - personal beliefs - at times seem to think that they are exempt from those standards.

Do have a great day.

Perry
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/23/2006 8:26:43 AM
Author: perry
Richard.

Not saying that we agree on everything - but you have the essance of the right approach on things and am not upset by another with a different point of view.
No. *You* do recognize that someone may have another point of view. If I do not see things *your* way or in *your* light, you do not believe that I refuse to listen and turn a blind eye - when the truth be - I come to different conclusions. It''s that simple.
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
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11,879
Date: 2/21/2006 8:40:23 PM
Author: perry
Did you ever consider that it all was a hoax.

JFK and Elvis have both been seen since their reported deaths - even together enhoying a meal according to one report.


Perry
perry, there was a movie some years back regarding just that...except it was JFK and marilyn who retreated to an island to live in peace....and the problems they encountered being out of the limelight were interesting.

movie zombie
 

rubydick

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
321
Perry,

Yes to all. If you are ever out in the San Diego area, give me a jingle. I can always be contacted via e-mail or through my web site.

You are right. Certainly the evidence of Christ''s existence is strong. What some argue, however, is that his role has been misrepresented. Was he a zealot, a member of a political movement, or simply a guru-like figure?

That''s a tough nut to crack. Probably best left to a question of faith. But such questions really are peripheral. Did Christ live? If he did, was he a zealot or a Gandhi? We miss the point with such questions, don''t we? Whether he lived or not is a useless thought. It''s not the person, but the ideas.

In the case of JFK, the evidence really is overwhelming that there was more than one shooter, that Oswald was exactly what he told the world he was before he was gunned down: a patsy.

Prior to his death, one of the doctors (Charles Crenshaw) that worked on JFK at Parkland Hospital in Dallas went public. According to him, the autopsy photos published by the Warren Commission were fake, not consistent with the wounds he saw. Unbelievably, the Journal of the American Medical Association called his book a "fabrication." Crenshaw sued. Guess who won? Crenshaw.

Similarly, the infamous Watergate burglar and CIA op, E. Howard Hunt, sued a magazine for suggesting that he was in Dallas during the assassination and that he had delivered weapons. Guess who won? The magazine (Ramparts). Hunt couldn''t even get his own wife and children to provide an alibi.

Plausible Denial

We can go on and on. The evidence is there. Is it 100% in a single direction. No, but what is?

But again, by focusing on the person, we miss the message. What are some of the things that JFK spoke about and apparently cared about?

Was he perfect? Nobody suggests that. He beat Nixon in a crooked election, he was a womanizer, he was a political animal. But when he got into the White House, what did he do? Read his words today and they are stunning.

Above all, we must both demonstrate and develop the affirmative power of the democratic ideal – remembering always that nations are great, not for what they are against, but what they are for.
- John F. Kennedy, Jan. 15, 1963

Your children live on streets like the Rue Anatole France, Boulevard Victor Hugo, Avenue Valery. When they are still very young they begin to sense the importance of history and culture. Our streets all have numbers. We have enough great names to replace them: Hemmingway Square, Melville Boulevard... I would like to see a twelve-year-old boy come home and tell his mother, when she scolded him for being late, “I was playing baseball on William Faulkner Avenue.”
- John F. Kennedy to Frenchman Romain Gary

Even little wars are dangerous in this nuclear world... The Korean conflict alone, forgetting for a moment the thousands of Americans who lost their lives, cost four times as much as our total world-wide aid budget for the current year...
- John F. Kennedy

I do not want it said of us what T.S. Eliot said of others some years ago: “These were a decent people. Their only monuments: the asphalt road and a thousand lost golf balls.”
- John F. Kennedy

We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
- John F. Kennedy

JFK to Dubya. What have we done?
 

Mr Majestyk

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
77
The assassination of JFK was clearly a conspiracy in which the highest levels of the US gov''t were complicit. I do not agree, however, that it resulted in the conclusions you state beginning with:

«One result was the increased power of capitalism over democracy....»

Corporations seek, in general, seek to maximize their value for their shareholders, not just a select few. There ARE abuses and fraud, such as Enron, but it''s greed, not the demise of JFK at work there.
 
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