jewelry store lightling? or appraisal fraud?

[isis~goddess]

Maybe its just me, but I swear my diamond looks different as soon as I walk into a jewelry store. What''s going on in there with those lights? I feel like my H colored stone turns into an L as soon as I walk in the store! My diamond looks so dark in there. Now I know my diamond is not an ideal cut, its probably good or very good, but still looks kind of mediocre in there compared to the stones in the display cases, which were nothing special, mostly I1 and J color mall quality stones. (except for that hand cut isreal diamond, i think it was called an isreal cut, it was REAL sparkley). It came with an apprasial that said color H, symmetry very good, polish very good, and something else very good, can''t remeber what, and I dont have numbers cause it''s not certified, so don''td ask, but could all that be completely off? I think the appraisal says UGL on it. I could be wrong, I''ll check when I get home and verify. But I am wondering, do jewelry stores mess with other peoples stones, or is UGL not a very good appraiser.

 

[mrssalvo]

jewelry stores have special lights that make most diamonds look good so no surprise there that you noticed a difference when away from those lights..as for UGL, never heard of them. stick with AGS or GIA graded stones for the most accuracy..

 

[BigDiamonds]

Doing a quick search on here, it appears that UGL is a division of EGL-USA. Here is a thread - https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ugl-reports.40224/

It seems possible that the color grading could be inaccurate.

 

[isis~goddess]

thank you, that helped me a lot actually!

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Just to clarify:

I believe that UGS (Universal Gemological Services) is the EGL-USA division.
UGL (Universal Gemological Laboratory Inc) is a different entity.
I have copies of both documents from both companies.
It is very confusing for a consumer.

Jeff Averbook, G.G.
www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[denverappraiser]

Dealer supplied ‘appraisals’ are often inaccurate and they often omit important information that isn’t helpful to making the sale. Remember that the client wasn’t you, it was the dealer. If you hired the appraiser, simply ring them up and ask them. A big part of what you paid them for is to have them help you to understand what you do, and don’t, have. If you don’t know and can’t figure out the source of your grading, don’t rely on what they’ve told you.

Jewelry stores with any sense will definitely try to put in lighting that makes their merchandise as good as possible but I would call this good marketing rather than fraudulent behavior. It’s sort of like observing that car dealers spend a lot of effort on washing all the cars on the lot even though this doesn't make them better cars. The lights can make for some difficulty in comparison shopping and they get discussed here for that reason but usually these lights makes everybody else’s stones look good too so I kind of doubt that this is the problem. The darkness you’re seeing probably has to do with the cutting more than the color or the clarity. If you’ve never had a real appraisal done, one where you were the client instead of the dealer, you might find it helpful.

I second Jeff's observation about using acronyms. They can be tricky and just because a company has the same or similar initials to someone else doesn't mean that they are connected. I remember a problem with Art DeMillo, a fine appraiser and a gentleman in the Boston area who was doing business using a name that was similar to a useless outfit working out of a PO box in NYC. One of the things about doing crappy appraisals is that they are very easy prepare cheaply and quickly so the poor Art found the other guys were producing 100 times as much paper with 'his' name at the top and it was trashing his reputation. In the end he had to change his company name. The UGS appraisal arm of EGL-USA gets it's share of criticism and much of it is deserved but it's entirely unreasonable to slam them for something they didn't even do.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

UGL
Universal Gemological Laboratory
http://uglinc.server301.com/about.html
to further confuse things.

woops I see Jeff mentioned them.

 

[Ellen]

I''ve seen a couple other posts like this before, and I don''t get it. I thought jewelers lighting always made stones look BETTER.

Can someone explain?

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 9/8/2007 9:10:23 AM
Author: Ellen
I''ve seen a couple other posts like this before, and I don''t get it. I thought jewelers lighting always made stones look BETTER.


Can someone explain?

A classic lighting scheme for jewelry stores in their diamond selling area is to have a dark or vari-colored ceiling with lots of bright pinpoint lighting right over the viewing area in an otherwise moderately dark room. The bright lights are generally directly over the showcases and they will put a black pad behind the stones both to provide a nice background, to block out the interior light from the showcases below and to protect both the showcase glass and jewelry if someone drops something. Obviously the stones should be squeaky clean. This produces lots of bright flashes, nice contrast and interesting scintillation when you move the stones around. This is quite different from the lighting in most people’s homes or workplaces so it’s not surprising that things look different under them. When a customer looks at their own things in the store they are usually standing back a bit from the counter, which moves them away from the spotlights, the stone probably isn’t especially clean and they don’t have the black background for contrast or the benefit of the ‘presentation’ or romancing being done by the sales person.

It’s also worth noting what I describe above is all high angle overhead light. The stones that look best here are the ones that look red under the ASET. The low angle lighting, represented by green in the ASET is often comparatively dark in jewelry stores so an otherwise similar stone that’s drawing it’s light from low angles will look darker in that environment. Some stones simply are cut in a way that produces a darker center when compared side by side to others. These are called ''nailheads'' and you can read up about them in the tutorial or by searching the forum but the typical store lights are designed to make all stones look their best, even poorly cut ones, whether you bought them there or not.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[isis~goddess]

Yes, now that I think about it, when the salesmen took a diamond out for me to see, it was more comparable to my stone in terms of sparkle. They''ve got secret lights in those display cases! Well, that''s fine, but it still doesnt explain why my H color stone looks darker than their H colors. I explored the nailhead effect, light escaping and creating a dark center. I''m not sure if I have that because it appears the whole stone is a shade darker, not just the middle. Its it very full of fire though, very blinding shots of color come out of this thing that actually make you blink, its nuts. It can really look dark when direct sunlight hits the stone from the side. Then in filtered light it looks fine, Id say maybe a grade or two darker than H though, IMO. Then in the shade it looks fine too, white face up. The band I wear with it contains H I stones, and they always look whiter. I guess my question is, does a larger size H (appx 2 ct) show more color than smaller ones, or is it a poor cut/nailhead effect or just midgraded? How can you tell a poorly cut stone just by looking?

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 9/8/2007 2:28:20 PM
Author: isis~goddess
How can you tell a poorly cut stone just by looking?

Not to sound self serving, but have you considered having it appraised? You might find professional assistance can be money well spent in terms of peace of mind if nothing else.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Ellen]

Neil, thank you for the explanation!

 

[isis~goddess]

sure, i wasnt sure if another appraisal would give me the detailed info i was looking for, but i give it a try!

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 9/8/2007 2:56:45 PM
Author: isis~goddess
sure, i wasnt sure if another appraisal would give me the detailed info i was looking for, but i give it a try!

Not every appraiser will. Be sure to discuss with them in advance what it is you hope to learn from your session and how they will go about testing your stone. Some appraisers are a lot better than others.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver