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Jeweller doesn't want to be liable for setting my stone

G

ggeorge

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
13
Hi all,

Need the community's advice on how to proceed with a tricky situation.

I bought a diamond and had it shipped to Canada. My jeweller recommended I buy my stone on-line because he couldn't source a super ideal. I asked if he still wanted to build my ring and he said yes. I also asked about setting the diamond and he assured me that he's never had a diamond get damaged during a setting.

I got a call today telling me that my 6-prong Tiffany-style ring was ready to pick-up but that he didn't not want to set the stone himself for liability reasons... as I did not purchase the stone from him. He offered to put me in touch with an independent setter.

As I live in Quebec, Jeweller's Mutual is not offered here. I called Chubb and they only insure completed rings and only through home insurance.

I'm wondering if anybody out there (Canadian or not) has gone through a similar experience and may be able to provide some advice.

As I highly doubt a setter would be willing to take on the liability of setting my stone, I've thought of a few options so far:

Option 1: Chance it on his setter or another setter
What are the odds of a RB getting chipped while being set in a solitaire setting? My diamond has a 1.4 - 3.7 girdle (thin to medium).

Option 2: Send my diamond back to where I bought it and get the ring made there

Option 3: Find another local jeweller that is willing to build a ring and set it.

As I haven't paid my jeweller for the ring he made, would it be wrong if I just don't?
 
Option 2
 
I'd probably also send it back to the vendor you got it from if they have settings. A 6 prong Tiffany style solitaire is a pretty standard type setting and you ought to not need something custom made for that. Also, the vendor you bought the stone from may be able to supply you with a shipping label to get it back to them so I'd ask about that also. You may have to pay a little extra for that, but the peace of mind that comes with it is nice to have. good luck!
 
bastetcat|1370894402|3462846 said:
I'd probably also send it back to the vendor you got it from if they have settings. A 6 prong Tiffany style solitaire is a pretty standard type setting and you ought to not need something custom made for that. Also, the vendor you bought the stone from may be able to supply you with a shipping label to get it back to them so I'd ask about that also. You may have to pay a little extra for that, but the peace of mind that comes with it is nice to have. good luck!
Click to expand...
+1
 
I spent decades as a setter and as an employer of other setters. I took that liability routinely. Naturally I reserved the right to decline any job until we could inspect both the stone and mounting in person and occasionally would do so if I thought there was a problem and I wasn’t the cheapest setter in Denver but I think you’re wrong that it’s out of the question that anyone will set it for you. It depends on the setters in your town. They won't all agree, but they might. Ask them this question directly.
 
I had a similar situation back in February. We bought the stone online and then brought it to our jeweller to place in a setting (the setting came from the jeweller, not online). Our jeweller warned us of the liability issue as well (but didn't refuse the work, just wanted us to understand that they won't cover us if something happens to the stone).

I'll have to double-check with my SO but I'm pretty sure our home insurance policy (which we added jewelry protection to) covered the setting of the stone. Do you have house insurance and can you call them to see if they'll cover it? You may have to add to your policy but you'll probably want to anyway once you have the entire thing in hand.

FWIW, I'm in Western Canada.
 
Thank you for your responses.

I sent my jeweller a note asking that he either (a) charge me a little more to cover the liability of setting the stone or (b) refer a setter that would be willing to cover that liability (thank you for that suggestion denverappraiser).

We'll see what develops but if either of the above don't work out, I'll go with option 2.
 
ggeorge said:
Thank you for your responses.

I sent my jeweller a note asking that he either (a) charge me a little more to cover the liability of setting the stone or (b) refer a setter that would be willing to cover that liability (thank you for that suggestion denverappraiser).

We'll see what develops but if either of the above don't work out, I'll go with option 2.
Click to expand...


I think this was a great choice George. As other PS'ers recommended, option #2 would have been my initial recommendation as well. I would've never thought to ask about additional costs to cover the liability of setting the stone. That is a good idea. I'm always on here reading and "lurking"...and everyday, it seems I learn something new.
 
Updated on my end.

I haven't heard back from my jeweller yet but in the meantime I've contacted the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) to discuss the scenario where I send the ring back to the U.S. to be set and the whole ring gets sent back to me.

From my perspective, since I have already paid taxes on the diamond, I would only have to pay taxes on the value of the setting plus maybe the labor required to set the stone.

This is not the case in the eyes of the CBSA. A set ring is an entirely different animal, so I'd be charged sales tax on the entire value of the ring even though duties on the diamond alone have been paid in advance...in essence I'd pay taxes on the diamond twice. I got this info after getting put through to a Senior Officer at the CBSA when I called their 800-number.

One alternative that she mentioned was that I could try returning the diamond for an in-store credit, request a refund from the CBSA (via a B2G form) for the duties already paid and then re-purchase the same diamond set in a setting and have the entire ring shipped back to avoid paying duties twice...it's definitely a messy alternative provided that it's possible.

Will keep you posted on what develops...I'm hoping this serves as a bit of a warning to any fellow Canadians out there.
 
Perhaps if you end up having to send the stone back to the US to have it set, the jeweler could write you a reciept for the ring listing the purchase price of the setting only?
 
I’m only just seeing your posting now and I’m very sorry you’re having so much trouble getting your diamond set. I’m in Ontario and just bought a diamond and setting from the U.S. in February. After wearing it for a few months I decided that it needed a little extra bling... pricescope can be dangerous that way!! I went to at least 3 different recommended jewelers and all of them were completely willing to work on my ring even though I didn’t buy the diamond or setting from them. I’m having a new head put in which involves having to remove my diamond from it’s current head and then resetting it after in its new head, which is not very different from your situation. The issue of liability was never even mentioned by any of them. In fact my ring is being worked on right now. The jeweler put the diamond under the scope and verified the GIA number, inclusions etc and made a drawing with the inclusion before beginning work. I’m wondering if you just happened to run into the wrong jeweler as my experience has been very different. I don’t think I’d jump through the CBA hoops yet if I were you as that sounds like a complete nightmare. Have you gone to visit other jewelers personally? I recommend that you do that and don’t mention the problem you’ve had with this other jeweler. Hopefully you’ll have a very positive experience instead. Hope this helps. Oh, I should mention that I do have insurance on my ring so I should be protected in any case. Good luck!
 
ggeorge|1370977509|3463574 said:
Updated on my end.
This is not the case in the eyes of the CBSA. A set ring is an entirely different animal, so I'd be charged sales tax on the entire value of the ring even though duties on the diamond alone have been paid in advance...in essence I'd pay taxes on the diamond twice. I got this info after getting put through to a Senior Officer at the CBSA when I called their 800-number.
Click to expand...

We Canadians pay so much taxes already. The government goes and double-dips just so they can have their senators expense items when they are not doing senate work, sweep hundreds of millions under the carpet, and fund the crack habit of a DB mayor. :angryfire:
 
I should have added to my earlier post, but we were a military family and moved across the country and out of the country. Over the years I've had my diamond reset a couple of times, different jewelry altered etc and never had the luxury of having the work done at the same place as I originally bought the diamond. I never had any kind of trouble at all. I've never heard of the kind of issue you're talking about and it just doesn't make sense. It seems like your jeweler only wants to work with his own diamonds but why did he make a setting if he wouldn't set the diamond??? You said you're in Quebec. Are you close to Ottawa at all? If yes, I can give you some referrals. I hope this all works out for you and you shouldn't have to send this back to the U.S. for a setting, never mind paying taxes twice. I'll restate what I said before about going personally to other jewelers. Just tell that that you purchased the diamond out of country and you really shouldn't have any kind of problem. They'll inspect the diamond with you, verify the GIA number etc before starting, but should be happy to do the work. Good luck!
 
For the lurkers out there, this is why we recommend always having the diamond seller set the stone when possible. It seems to especially be important when outside of the US and this scenario occurs.
 
I must have missed a detail. Are you saying your jeweler made a ring for you BEFORE you had this conversation about whether or not he's able and willing to complete the job?

By the way, an important question above is about the odds of damage. It varies a lot from jeweler to jeweler and a bit with the design but in my shop we were WAY under 1% and probably under 0.1%. That's not 0%, which is why this is an important question since the cost of damage can be pretty high and most consumers aren't very well prepared to deal with it.

As a bit of distraction from the question at hand and for the benefit of jewelers reading this, my advice is to take the risk and charge the money. Figure it like this. A client comes in with a $10,000 1 carat diamond to set. You charge them $150 to set it. The guy down the street who won't stand by his work charges $50. That's effectively $100 for the 'insurance' component of the deal. I don't know your breakage rate but if it's over 1%, you really should consider a new job anyway. So then you chip it. Crap. After you get over the shock of it all you buy the client a new stone and take your lumps. The old one you recut, recert, and sell to someone else. Chances are good that you'll actually recover most of the money, say $8000 and you had to pay out $500 to the cutter, the shippers and the lab. That's a $2500 hit for the worst case scenario. It's usually less unless you cross an important weight boundary. Irritating to be sure, and tough on the cash flow too, but to lose money on this deal you need to have a breakage rate that's more like 10%! If you do this deal just once a week, we've just increased your revenue by $5,200/year with NO extra work. Even if your breakage rate is 1%, which is on the high side, we're talking an extra $4,000 in clear profit! That's not counting the fact that you get to sell mountings, sizings, and you become the go-to guy in town because you're the one who stands by your work while the other guys make excuses. The next time this customer or her friends wants a job done RIGHT instead of cheap, where do you think they'll go? Yeah, but someone else made the money on the diamond sale. So? You lost a sale. Bummer for you. That wasn't the first and it won't be the last. That one's done, better luck next time. We're talking about not only losing a sale, we're talking about sending a customer packing who is standing in the showroom, right now, with credit card in hand who is seriously considering international shipping, a month long wait and a fight with the customs people as an alternative. Anyone who can't close that sale doesn't deserve to call themselves a jeweler.
 
I had my the diamond solitaire in my engagement ring reset in a new setting because the ring never fit well as it was a family heirloom on my husband's side. The stone is worth a fair bit and the jeweller (Canadian) we worked with was happy to make the new setting and reset it. He was detail oriented and very sensitive to the fact that the stone was essentially a one-of-kind because it had been in the family for a long time.
He incurred any and all liabilities as part of his business. We've been customers ever since, making small purchases and some not small at all.
 
Denverappraiser, I think OP's jeweler led him on by saying he never had a problem setting a stone. No mention of not accepting liability. So in this scenario, I think OP is right not to pay him for the setting because he has created this quandary by not being clear about what he would and would not do.

OP I live in Montreal but unfortunately I don't have any personal recommendations for you. Have you tried Ex-Aurum? I have heard some good things about them. I think you should go with no. 3 and maybe take Miolle's offer to recommend a jeweler in Ottawa. It's close by after all.

And thanks for that info about CBSA. I never heard of that policy before and it's frankly ridiculous!
 
peacechick|1371135281|3464975 said:
Denverappraiser, I think OP's jeweler led him on by saying he never had a problem setting a stone. No mention of not accepting liability. So in this scenario, I think OP is right not to pay him for the setting because he has created this quandary by not being clear about what he would and would not do.
Click to expand...
I agree, and if that's what occurred I think it was misleading. Prong setting round ideal cuts isn't usually an especially difficult job but if HE thinks it's enough of a risk to pass on the liability then I would call that a problem. If, on the other hand, he doesn't think there's a risk present, why isn't he willing to accept it?

I'm usually pretty supportive of jewelers, especially small time shops that do their own work, but this guy is a little hard to defend. For reasons explained above, I think it's a mistake to summarily decline jobs like this and if he's got a problem with this particular stone or this particular job for some reason he definitely should have discussed this up front.
 
denverappraiser|1371128605|3464918 said:
I must have missed a detail. Are you saying your jeweler made a ring for you BEFORE you had this conversation about whether or not he's able and willing to complete the job?

By the way, an important question above is about the odds of damage. It varies a lot from jeweler to jeweler and a bit with the design but in my shop we were WAY under 1% and probably under 0.1%. That's not 0%, which is why this is an important question since the cost of damage can be pretty high and most consumers aren't very well prepared to deal with it.

As a bit of distraction from the question at hand and for the benefit of jewelers reading this, my advice is to take the risk and charge the money. Figure it like this. A client comes in with a $10,000 1 carat diamond to set. You charge them $150 to set it. The guy down the street who won't stand by his work charges $50. That's effectively $100 for the 'insurance' component of the deal. I don't know your breakage rate but if it's over 1%, you really should consider a new job anyway. So then you chip it. Crap. After you get over the shock of it all you buy the client a new stone and take your lumps. The old one you recut, recert, and sell to someone else. Chances are good that you'll actually recover most of the money, say $8000 and you had to pay out $500 to the cutter, the shippers and the lab. That's a $2500 hit for the worst case scenario. It's usually less unless you cross an important weight boundary. Irritating to be sure, and tough on the cash flow too, but to lose money on this deal you need to have a breakage rate that's more like 10%! If you do this deal just once a week, we've just increased your revenue by $5,200/year with NO extra work. Even if your breakage rate is 1%, which is on the high side, we're talking an extra $4,000 in clear profit! That's not counting the fact that you get to sell mountings, sizings, and you become the go-to guy in town because you're the one who stands by your work while the other guys make excuses. The next time this customer or her friends wants a job done RIGHT instead of cheap, where do you think they'll go? Yeah, but someone else made the money on the diamond sale. So? You lost a sale. Bummer for you. That wasn't the first and it won't be the last. That one's done, better luck next time. We're talking about not only losing a sale, we're talking about sending a customer packing who is standing in the showroom, right now, with credit card in hand who is seriously considering international shipping, a month long wait and a fight with the customs people as an alternative. Anyone who can't close that sale doesn't deserve to call themselves a jeweler.
Click to expand...

That's because you're a savvy businessman. Unfortunately there many non-savvy, but slimy business people out there.

OP, I hope you didn't pay for the setting in full. Definitely would not deal with that vendor again.
 
I have set/unset many stones and never had an issue once but none of them were princess cut. Seriously, if it was just a newly cut ideal round of high clarity .. I highly doubt it will get chipped to set it in a prong setting if the jeweler is competent. I know most custom benches (like SK) covers the setting through their insurance.
 
I wanted to check with our jeweler's block agent to be sure what I'm going to say is correct. We purchased a rider on our Jeweler's Block policy that protects our store against any damages to customer's merchandise while we work on it in our store. Until I read this thread, I thought that was standard under most jeweler's insurance. Now I find out it's optional coverage. I don't know the price of this rider, but I could see jewelers self-insuring this risk, or as in the case of OP's jeweler, not taking the risk at all.
 
denverappraiser|1371128605|3464918 said:
I must have missed a detail. Are you saying your jeweler made a ring for you BEFORE you had this conversation about whether or not he's able and willing to complete the job?

By the way, an important question above is about the odds of damage. It varies a lot from jeweler to jeweler and a bit with the design but in my shop we were WAY under 1% and probably under 0.1%. That's not 0%, which is why this is an important question since the cost of damage can be pretty high and most consumers aren't very well prepared to deal with it.

As a bit of distraction from the question at hand and for the benefit of jewelers reading this, my advice is to take the risk and charge the money. Figure it like this. A client comes in with a $10,000 1 carat diamond to set. You charge them $150 to set it. The guy down the street who won't stand by his work charges $50. That's effectively $100 for the 'insurance' component of the deal. I don't know your breakage rate but if it's over 1%, you really should consider a new job anyway. So then you chip it. Crap. After you get over the shock of it all you buy the client a new stone and take your lumps. The old one you recut, recert, and sell to someone else. Chances are good that you'll actually recover most of the money, say $8000 and you had to pay out $500 to the cutter, the shippers and the lab. That's a $2500 hit for the worst case scenario. It's usually less unless you cross an important weight boundary. Irritating to be sure, and tough on the cash flow too, but to lose money on this deal you need to have a breakage rate that's more like 10%! If you do this deal just once a week, we've just increased your revenue by $5,200/year with NO extra work. Even if your breakage rate is 1%, which is on the high side, we're talking an extra $4,000 in clear profit! That's not counting the fact that you get to sell mountings, sizings, and you become the go-to guy in town because you're the one who stands by your work while the other guys make excuses. The next time this customer or her friends wants a job done RIGHT instead of cheap, where do you think they'll go? Yeah, but someone else made the money on the diamond sale. So? You lost a sale. Bummer for you. That wasn't the first and it won't be the last. That one's done, better luck next time. We're talking about not only losing a sale, we're talking about sending a customer packing who is standing in the showroom, right now, with credit card in hand who is seriously considering international shipping, a month long wait and a fight with the customs people as an alternative. Anyone who can't close that sale doesn't deserve to call themselves a jeweler.
Click to expand...
Denverappraiser- I haven't been on here in a while, and was just lurking- but I had to log on to say what an outstanding post this was! Outstanding! :appl:
 
Hi all,

Wanted to provide you with an update:

I ended up going with "Option 3: Find another local jeweller that is willing to build a ring and set it.". I got in contact with Gino at Ex Aurum. He was willing to make me a ring and set the diamond under his insurance.

Gino was a pleasure to deal with and took the time to listen even though his place was swarming with customers. I initially went there on a busy Saturday.

I picked up my engagement ring today (a Tiffany-style six prong solitaire with rounded edges) and it looks great! I also checked out some of his other work and I have to say his craftsmanship is top notch. He mentioned that he trained at Kaufmann de Suisse 20-odd years ago back when Pius Kaufmann was running it.

I will be going back to Gino in a few weeks to design an eternity band to match the solitaire. I am happy to finally have a completed ring in hand and I'm thrilled to have found local jeweller that stands behind his work.
 
I'm so happy to hear that everything worked out well for you. Congratulations and don't forget to post pics!!
 
Really glad Ex-Aurum worked out for you!
 
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