Jeffrey Epstein

[Arkteia]

Where is Ghislaine Maxwell now?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ght-after-epstein-s-apparent-suicide-n1041111

 

[mom2dolls]

Hubby is saying they need to look at the cell mates family to see if there is any windfall of cash or new homes etc.

I couldn’t believe how many Facebook posts yesterday morning were immediately saying the former president did it. Probably cannot post the name or will be deleted.

Was he naming names of those who also participated?

 

[partgypsy]

I don't he was, but there are flight logs, and testimony from the victims as well as other employee staff that indicate ties with powerful people and partying together. Just a lot of questions that prob won't ever get answered.

 

[Arkteia]

On a side note... Epstein was a totally weirded out rich guy, but pay attention, whenever this-or-that name pops up as his guests, no one is surprised. The question usually is, “how involved?”

There was one couple in the White House that was a normal, loving family. The Obamas. And I don’t mean the politics, I mean, personally devoted to one another.

A normal, loving, decent family is hard to find. Think of this. If names pop up in the course of the investigation, most won’t surprise me. But I know the Obamas would not have sex scandals around them.

Lots of politicians do, humans are imperfect, and tempted. All the more we should be proud of the ones who behaved decently.

 

[Arkteia]

Hubby is saying they need to look at the cell mates family to see if there is any windfall of cash or new homes etc.

I couldn’t believe how many Facebook posts yesterday morning were immediately saying the former president did it. Probably cannot post the name or will be deleted.

Was he naming names of those who also participated?

That Epstein was naming the ones who did, for sure.

That the former president who once weathered a big sex scandal has hands so long that they would extend through the walls of the federal jail, today, is nonsense. Think of it. One thing former presidents keep from their tenures are the precious connections. One thing they lose is the power. I can post the name, with opinion.

To think that “the Clintons did it” is sheer idiocy. It just doesn’t work this way. Today, they have no power. And I would not be surprised if they are short of money.

 

[cmd2014]

To think that “the Clintons did it” is sheer idiocy. It just doesn’t work this way. Today, they have no power. And I would not be surprised if they are short of money.

Plus, why bother. He is out of politics, she is likely not going to run again...they have already weathered one sex scandal - you'd think another one would hardly faze them. I would imagine your current president would have quite a bit more to worry about.

That said, I suspect he simply killed himself. He must have been seeing the writing on the wall...

 

[Arkteia]

Plus, why bother. He is out of politics, she is likely not going to run again...they have already weathered one sex scandal - you'd think another one would hardly faze them. I would imagine your current president would have quite a bit more to worry about.

That said, I suspect he simply killed himself. He must have been seeing the writing on the wall...

We don't know what has happened, even if he did it himself, he had to have "tools" smuggled in. But let us see what autopsy tells.

 

[Rfisher]

I saw this elsewhere. If it fact checks out false, my apologies.

William Barr’s father Donald hired 20 year old (college dropout) Epstein to teach calculus and physics at a private academy in NYC in the 70’s.
The kicker? Donald Barr has published 1970’s sci fi work, which tells the story of the bored, rich alien folk that turn to sex trafficking children for kicks.

 

[cmd2014]

OR86, I recall that many psychiatrists feel that the only difference btw the prisoners and the guards are the uniforms. So one qua!ification would be the willingness to administer cruel and inhuman treatment of your fellow man and a predilection for dominance and control.

I'm afraid you're misquoting the literature. I suspect you are referencing the Zimbardo study (1973) in which *normal* people without any apparent violent tendencies were randomly assigned into groups (pretend "prison guard" and pretend "prisoner"). Zimbardo hypothesized that it was the environment that made people behave the way that they do, not anyone's inherent predilection for dominance or control, which is exactly what his study showed. That normal, non-violent (mostly graduate student) participants were able to turn cruel when put into situations that pulled for that kind of behaviour - particularly when people are dehumanized (the "prisoners" were not allowed names) and when anonymity is offered (the "guards" also did not use names and were given uniforms that included dark glasses that masked their faces from the prisoners). So the conclusion that the difference between prisoners and guards was only the uniforms was made with the caveat that this is true for every single one of us and was never intended to imply that the people who become prison guards as a profession are sociopaths.

Other studies have replicated this finding - like the Milgram experiments where once again normal, well-adjusted, non-violent people were shown to be willing to administer (what turned out to be fake) torturous electric shocks to people that they did not know under conditions where they felt that people in authority were ordering them to do so.

So there is actually nothing to support the idea that prison guards are just naturally cruel and inhuman. In fact, they are typically carefully screened (at least here in Canada) by psychological assessments as part of the hiring process (just like law enforcement officers are) to ensure that they are not naturally inclined to dominate or abuse people. Most corrections officers here typically have degrees in criminology (just like border security officers), and the pay is on par with any other unionized government job (so quite high), with full benefits and additional danger pay, making it one of the higher paid professions that one can do with an undergraduate degree.

I will also jump in and agree with @redwood66 that this is a hard job and burn out is high. It is not made easier either by the low view that the general public tends to have of people who do it based on what is portrayed on TV and in movies. And the job does sometimes make people hard. But many jobs do. Talk to a cop or an ER doc or a paramedic sometime...

I worked for several years at a maximum security federal prison (not as a guard) and I can say that it is not at all TV and movies would have you believe that it is. "Prison Justice" is really rare, because there are a whole host of policies and procedures that must be followed to prevent it. Those known to be at risk are as a matter of course placed in protective custody. Every incoming inmate is fully assessed over a 12 week period in a separate unit to determine what risk they might be in if they were to be placed in general population as well as what risk they might pose to others. Gang members from opposing gangs are identified and every effort is made to house them separately (in different prisons if need be). Those posing known threats to each other for other reasons are generally separated, and any violent incident resulting in death prompts an inquest where staff are subject to an intense level of scrutiny. Violent events (apart from someone unpredictably punching someone) are pretty rare, and violent events resulting in death even more so.

Suicides are also scrutinized through a mandatory inquest process that is triggered every single time someone dies in custody. No-one I have ever worked with would be inclined to 'turn their back' for 30 minutes - not only because most people aren't like that, but also because of the level of scrutiny that would fall on you if something happened. And people really don't need tools to kill themselves. Most suicides in prison are done by people by means of asphyxiating themselves with their clothes or with bed sheets (rarely from anything high either; most often they tie whatever they are using to the top of their bed and use their body weight to asphyxiate themselves or to a bar of their cell and then they roll their body weight over top of the ligature to tighten it). It does not take long for unconsciousness to occur, and about 3 - 4 minutes for brain damage to start to occur. It is really, really hard to keep people alive who are determined not to be. Even in places where you are watching them.

But the US system may be very different. I would suspect not enough though to make some of the wilder conspiracy theories true. Plus, Epstein was of an age where he might have just had a garden variety heart attack. We won't know until the autopsy is done.

 

[redwood66]

@cmd2014 I can only imagine that your post is in response to some nasty comment made by a PSer I have on ignore and doesn't know jack of what she speaks. Not even worth this amount of words I am typing. Thank you for taking so much time, you are exactly right on everything you offered.

 

[lovedogs]

OR86, I recall that many psychiatrists feel that the only difference btw the prisoners and the guards are the uniforms. So one qua!ification would be the willingness to administer cruel and inhuman treatment of your fellow man and a predilection for dominance and control.

I'm my experience, the black sheep family member in my own family chose employment as a guard at San Quentin and he confirmed the "different uni's" position. He further said that any guard who made prison guard their long-term career was most definitely an example of that and that inmates and criminals were the only faction of society the long-term guards understood and felt comfortable around.

My cousin left that job before it could destroy him (2 years) and returned to college to complete his degree and live AND work outside the prison environment and mentality.

The thing about prison guards and prisoners in terms of psychiatry isn't correct.

 

[Arkteia]

View attachment 706988

I'm afraid you're misquoting the literature. I suspect you are referencing the Zimbardo study (1973) in which *normal* people without any apparent violent tendencies were randomly assigned into groups (pretend "prison guard" and pretend "prisoner"). Zimbardo hypothesized that it was the environment that made people behave the way that they do, not anyone's inherent predilection for dominance or control, which is exactly what his study showed. That normal, non-violent (mostly graduate student) participants were able to turn cruel when put into situations that pulled for that kind of behaviour - particularly when people are dehumanized (the "prisoners" were not allowed names) and when anonymity is offered (the "guards" also did not use names and were given uniforms that included dark glasses that masked their faces from the prisoners). So the conclusion that the difference between prisoners and guards was only the uniforms was made with the caveat that this is true for every single one of us and was never intended to imply that the people who become prison guards as a profession are sociopaths.

Other studies have replicated this finding - like the Milgram experiments where once again normal, well-adjusted, non-violent people were shown to be willing to administer (what turned out to be fake) torturous electric shocks to people that they did not know under conditions where they felt that people in authority were ordering them to do so.

So there is actually nothing to support the idea that prison guards are just naturally cruel and inhuman. In fact, they are typically carefully screened (at least here in Canada) by psychological assessments as part of the hiring process (just like law enforcement officers are) to ensure that they are not naturally inclined to dominate or abuse people. Most corrections officers here typically have degrees in criminology (just like border security officers), and the pay is on par with any other unionized government job (so quite high), with full benefits and additional danger pay, making it one of the higher paid professions that one can do with an undergraduate degree.

I will also jump in and agree with @redwood66 that this is a hard job and burn out is high. It is not made easier either by the low view that the general public tends to have of people who do it based on what is portrayed on TV and in movies. And the job does sometimes make people hard. But many jobs do. Talk to a cop or an ER doc or a paramedic sometime...

I worked for several years at a maximum security federal prison (not as a guard) and I can say that it is not at all TV and movies would have you believe that it is. "Prison Justice" is really rare, because there are a whole host of policies and procedures that must be followed to prevent it. Those known to be at risk are as a matter of course placed in protective custody. Every incoming inmate is fully assessed over a 12 week period in a separate unit to determine what risk they might be in if they were to be placed in general population as well as what risk they might pose to others. Gang members from opposing gangs are identified and every effort is made to house them separately (in different prisons if need be). Those posing known threats to each other for other reasons are generally separated, and any violent incident resulting in death prompts an inquest where staff are subject to an intense level of scrutiny. Violent events (apart from someone unpredictably punching someone) are pretty rare, and violent events resulting in death even more so.

Suicides are also scrutinized through a mandatory inquest process that is triggered every single time someone dies in custody. No-one I have ever worked with would be inclined to 'turn their back' for 30 minutes - not only because most people aren't like that, but also because of the level of scrutiny that would fall on you if something happened. And people really don't need tools to kill themselves. Most suicides in prison are done by people by means of asphyxiating themselves with their clothes or with bed sheets (rarely from anything high either; most often they tie whatever they are using to the top of their bed and use their body weight to asphyxiate themselves or to a bar of their cell and then they roll their body weight over top of the ligature to tighten it). It does not take long for unconsciousness to occur, and about 3 - 4 minutes for brain damage to start to occur. It is really, really hard to keep people alive who are determined not to be. Even in places where you are watching them.

But the US system may be very different. I would suspect not enough though to make some of the wilder conspiracy theories true. Plus, Epstein was of an age where he might have just had a garden variety heart attack. We won't know until the autopsy is done.

Zimbardo’s Stanford prison experiment is very interesting. Few mention why it was ever done. It was during the Vietnam war, with students actively protesting, and the initial question was, how would these students, coming from an Ivy League school, with caring families, tolerate imprisonment?

A couple of more things that came out of the experiment and seem to be of value.

First, the “worst” shift, most prone to violation of prisoners’ right, was the night one. Zimbardo explained it by lack of control over the “guards”.

And second, it was one kid, very nice, polite and handsome, who turned into a sadistic one. His other two coworkers, for some reason, could not oppose him, although he had no formal authority over them.

In life, he became a successful businessman, and these tendencies never revealed themselves ever again.

I just finished a good book written by Yevgenia Ginsburg. “Into the whirlwind”.

This beautiful wife and mother spent 18 years in Stalin’s jail, in solitary confinement, then in Gulag in the Far North and finally, in a settlement next to the camp. She was arrested at 34, and let go at 52.

What was different for her, she was arrested one of the first ones, and watched her jailers, some of whom were initially OK, morph into horrible non-humans. She thinks that it is the absolute power that changed the people, and the more, the worse.

I do recommend people to read the book (it stands out because the author is a good writer, but not a professional one; it is her life). However, in the context of the prison guards. Some are probably OK. Others have the potential to change in not-so-nice way, and no one can predict it. Essentially, it is about how well people are able to survive the test of being in power.

 

[cmd2014]

@cmd2014 I can only imagine that your post is in response to some nasty comment made by a PSer I have on ignore and doesn't know jack of what she speaks. Not even worth this amount of words I am typing. Thank you for taking so much time, you are exactly right on everything you offered.

I was responding to the expressed idea by a few people here that all correctional service officers are psychopaths who enjoy domineering and abusing people and that this is the only qualification for the job (and that Epstein couldn’t commit suicide in jail without a guard’s help, and that his death must have either been an assisted suicide or a murder that was covered up).

QUOTE="Arkteia, post: 4593670, member: 41926"] View attachment 706988

Zimbardo’s Stanford prison experiment is very interesting. Few mention why it was ever done. It was during the Vietnam war, with students actively protesting, and the initial question was, how would these students, coming from an Ivy League school, with caring families, tolerate imprisonment?

A couple of more things that came out of the experiment and seem to be of value.

First, the “worst” shift, most prone to violation of prisoners’ right, was the night one. Zimbardo explained it by lack of control over the “guards”.

And second, it was one kid, very nice, polite and handsome, who turned into a sadistic one. His other two coworkers, for some reason, could not oppose him, although he had no formal authority over them.

In life, he became a successful businessman, and these tendencies never revealed themselves ever again.

I just finished a good book written by Yevgenia Ginsburg. “Into the whirlwind”.

This beautiful wife and mother spent 18 years in Stalin’s jail, in solitary confinement, then in Gulag in the Far North and finally, in a settlement next to the camp. She was arrested at 34, and let go at 52.

What was different for her, she was arrested one of the first ones, and watched her jailers, some of whom were initially OK, morph into horrible non-humans. She thinks that it is the absolute power that changed the people, and the more, the worse.

I do recommend people to read the book (it stands out because the author is a good writer, but not a professional one; it is her life). However, in the context of the prison guards. Some are probably OK. Others have the potential to change in not-so-nice way, and no one can predict it. Essentially, it is about how well people are able to survive the test of being in power.[/QUOTE]

The purpose of the study was to determine whether some of the abuses that had been seen in prisons at the time were because of the personality traits of the guards or the demand characteristics of the situation. Zimbardo proved that situational factors (and social norms developed within specific situational contexts) played a much more powerful influence on human behavior (especially in groups) than the stable personality characteristics of the participants. Subsequent social psychology studies built on this idea to explain antisocial mob behavior among otherwise pro social people like what was seen during the Stanley cup riots. And the role that perceived (rather than real) authority has on people’s behavior.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/zimbardo.html

But neither of this or Yevgenia Ginsburg’s book has any bearing on what happens in real prisons in Western countries in modern times. I have no doubt that Stalin era prisons were horrendous and that people were tortured. But this just isn’t the reality in modern prisons in North America.

 

[Arkteia]

I was responding to the expressed idea by a few people here that all correctional service officers are psychopaths who enjoy domineering and abusing people and that this is the only qualification for the job (and that Epstein couldn’t commit suicide in jail without a guard’s help, and that his death must have either been an assisted suicide or a murder that was covered up).

It is interesting that my post was chosen to respond to the idea that all correctional service officers are psychopaths. Definitely I did not express this idea. I tend not to use the word "all" in general, not my style, so it could not be my post, for sure. And in fact, my personal opinion about correctional officers is that they represent a regular stratum of people, neither better nor worse than anyone else, who choose this job for the job and benefits. Sometimes because it is the best or most stable job in the town. What I think about the job (that it is very stressful, burnout, etc) would be the repetition of my post about them, but if you say the word "psychopath" in my post, please, point it out to me. I have to be responsible for what I say.

The purpose of the study was to determine whether some of the abuses that had been seen in prisons at the time were because of the personality traits of the guards or the demand characteristics of the situation.

And here it becomes complicated. In his book "The Lucifer Effect", and some others, Zimbardo vividly described the situation of that summer of 1971. It was my understanding that the study was not initially geared towards abuses in prison. In fact, if anything, the results of the study were not predictable to Zimbardo himself; the SPE had to be stopped before it could be completed. But I have to check what Zimbardo himself writes about the context of the study.

But neither of this or Yevgenia Ginsburg’s book has any bearing on what happens in real prisons in Western countries in modern times. I have no doubt that Stalin era prisons were horrendous and that people were tortured. But this just isn’t the reality in modern prisons in North America.

Well, have you ever read "The Lucifer effect"? Zimbardo was the witness for the defence of Chip Frederick, one of Abu Ghraib's prison guards. In fact, he drew a lot of interesting parallels between Abu Ghraib and SPE; the thing I remember off the top of my head is that the "worst" shift in Abu Ghraib was the nighttime one. The one with the least control...

As to North America and Western countries, surely the prisons are incomparable to Stalin's era prisons. It is democracy peppered with the litigation system. Any violation of prisoners' rights is pregnant with many lawsuits. But this is not my point. I was not comparing the two systems. I was merely shocked at the speed with which seemingly normal people turned into sadists. I can refer one to another book about Pol Pot's Cambodia, where it happened even faster, if you want, as I like to read books about wartime and revolutionary criminals and their court proceedings.

My point is, in a democratic society, people do behave in a civilized way. But the transition from "nice" people to abusers of power might happen very fast if the democratic institutions are weakened. We have seen it in Russia, in Germany, in Cambodia, and where not. I specifically read about the processes and trials in all the countries; what surprises me is how many of the wartime and dictatorship criminals turn to religion once they are stripped of power. (Do they feel the shame? Or is it something else? Why does not inner religiosity control them at the time when they are all-mighty).

 

[cmd2014]

It is interesting that my post was chosen to respond to the idea that all correctional service officers are psychopaths. Definitely I did not express this idea.

No, you’re right. That was in response to Azstonie.

Zimbardo did need to terminate the study and it became a turning point in the ethics of doing experiments on humans. He was also deeply convinced of the role that external
social forces play on human behavior. Things like anonymity, deindividuation, and the role of interpersonal/group factors in regard to the development of antisocial social norms.

 

[Arkteia]

More about the situation in federal prisons and the life of the prison guards. Published way before Epstein's case, but when El Chapo was the "guest" of Metropilitan Correctional Center.
They have problems, but it is not the guards' fault.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/us/prisons-safety-substitute-guards.html

"In New York, the Mexican drug lord Joaquín Guzmán Loera, known as El Chapo, is locked up in the most secure wing of the Metropolitan Correctional Center, where he awaits trial, accused in the murder of thousands.

When Mr. Guzmán, who twice escaped from Mexican prisons, was transferred to Manhattan in 2017, the number of workers in the wing, which can house about a half-dozen inmates, was increased to at least four people, including two correctional officers, according to three people with knowledge of the arrangement.

But since early this year, they said, the wing has been routinely staffed by two people because of shortages. One is an officer — and sometimes that role is filled by support staff.

The prison union says posts are left vacant to avoid overtime. But there are also complaints in some prisons about excessive reliance on overtime.

Some correctional officers, who generally work eight-hour shifts, said they had been instructed to stay for a second shift, sometimes with only a few minutes’ notice. Some who refused were threatened with disciplinary action, including suspensions. In some instances, workers said, they got five or six hours of sleep before returning for another 16 hours of work.

Exhausted, some officers said the only way to avoid the demands was to call in sick. When that happens, some prisons require other workers to fill the gap".

 

[Arcadian]

Plus, why bother. He is out of politics, she is likely not going to run again...they have already weathered one sex scandal - you'd think another one would hardly faze them. I would imagine your current president would have quite a bit more to worry about.

That said, I suspect he simply killed himself. He must have been seeing the writing on the wall...

IMO forget Clinton and forget Trump. That would be too obvious. There are more people involved in this sordid tale that people do no think twice about.

 

[whitewave]

We don't know what has happened, even if he did it himself, he had to have "tools" smuggled in. But let us see what autopsy tells.

All he needed was one sheet.

 

[Arkteia]

Yesterday evening I took the time to read about the life of Jeffrey Epstein. Just from the Wikipedia.
"Gifted", "odd", "adventurer", "opportunist" don't even touch what he was. It is just Wikipedia, but some facts are shocking.

He liked immature girls himself, and he kept a huge dossier to blackmail guests, too, he entertained well-known people, and he filmed it, and he had very bad judgment to think it could work for him.

We probably shall never find out why he died, I am very far from thinking it was anyone of our "rich and famous" specifically that was involved.

However, Epstein simply knew too much, and was getting old, too. From one article I have read, it follows he was looking for an author to write his biography before the arrest, dropping well-known names, but the authors he approached were wise to stay away from him.

It is probably better not to know the full truth.

He was grandiose, and people were shunning him after his first arrest, and maybe he never fully recovered after 2008, but he aimed at being a billionaire.

If what they write in Wiki about his intent to pollinate the earth with his DNA, is true, it is clinical. Who knows what else he did or said at that time, probably, had massive lapses of judgment, but was blabbing. And after his first incarceration, when he was given royal treatment, he felt invincible

 

[Arkteia]

All he needed was one sheet.

Don't they use paper sheets in correctional centers?

 

[whitewave]

Don't they use paper sheets in correctional centers?

I have no idea.

 

[redwood66]

Don't they use paper sheets in correctional centers?

Never in any where I worked. Cotton/poly blend.

 

[House Cat]

There is corruption and “sociopaths” at every job in this country. When I worked in the business environment, I saw every personality under the sun. Everyone knew what person was dangerous to their career. Everyone knew what person would always have their back. And...everyone knew which guy was always breaking the rules. I can’t imagine that this model wouldn’t play out with a group of prison guards. This is people.

The difference I see is that in order to perform their jobs, prison guards have to guard their emotions and take care of themselves by any means necessary. Would the job change them? I think it would change them in the same way being a soldier or a policeman would change a person. When a person has to subject themselves to atrocities on a regular basis, they have to shut down a part of themselves in order to keep from breaking. This doesn’t make them terrible people. This is a coping mechanism. One they employ to do a job that most of us can’t do.

I don’t know that I can call them corrupt or maladjusted (paraphrasing) when they are trying to cope with the harsh conditions of the job at hand. I’m not sure that anyone can do that job and keep their original spirit intact. Edit: But that isn’t to say prison guards become like rabid murderers because they are keeping their emotions safe.

 

[Arcadian]

Y'all hear what the man had in his house? I mean honestly I don't care but he has a picture of Bill Clinton in Drag on "prominent display" at his house. Not a photo, so someone probably took some artistic liberty there.

 

[Bonfire]

 

[Arkteia]

Never in any where I worked. Cotton/poly blend.

Actually, this is a good tool for suicidal prisoners. Should be changed to paper. MOO.

 

[Arkteia]

I still would believe that Oswald was a lone wolf, if RFK were not killed.

 

[redwood66]

Actually, this is a good tool for suicidal prisoners. Should be changed to paper. MOO.

Prisons in California have laundry facilities where the inmates work, but inmates on suicide watch do not have sheets or any clothing, just boxers. They are monitored 24/7 while on suicide watch, they are allowed amenities such as a blanket, jumpsuit, etc. once they progress with the psychiatrist/psychologist. The cost for throw away sheets for all inmates would be enormous.

 

[Arkteia]

Coming back to Epstein, here is my feeling.

Unless there is the autopsy that absolutely proves that there was no foul play and it was suicide, I have my doubts. Epstein led a strange, and risky, life.

I don't feel sorry for him at all, either way. However, I am concerned about suicides in prisons and jails, and I hope that his "high-profile" suicide will draw attention to this problem, as clearly it needs attention.

As to the guards, it seems that being overworked and staff shortage is the problem, so maybe a prison reform is something that is long overdue? We have rapists and killers behind bars, and it is good, but we also have people who stole from a department store behind bars, or druggies, or mentally ill people, it is not helping anyone.

As to the girls who were the victims. These were probably the cases of statutory rape, but the fault was all on Epstein (and probably, Maxwell, and anyone else who was procuring girls for him), and he was a predator, and a vile, horrible human being. God knows whom he entertained, and I don't know if his guests assumed that the girls were over 18, or did not care at all. I think this case will be, essentially, closed with his death, but I hope it will be a warning to others, at least.

I also feel strongly about the parents of these girls, who now are so angry with Epstein. How could the father of one girl (who gave an interview) not be aware when Epstein was flying the man's daughter to London and South of France, in a private plane? How could he believe it when the girl said she was learning how to give massages in Epstein's estate - what was it, a massage parlor? And I think that today, these parents are not liable, however, something needs to be said about them, these parents who allow their kids cavort in the company of much older men. There is a word for it.

As to the girls... I deeply sympathize with them. They are true victims. I remember Nabokov's Lolita. Where Humbert meets Lolita, once an aspiring tennis player, as grown up and pregnant and desperate. Humbert put the blame on another, but did he even realize it was he who ruined her life, her future, her talent? Nabokov himself called his hero Humbert "a vain and cruel wretch".

A critic wrote, "Humbert is every man who is driven by desire, wanting his Lolita so badly that it never occurs to him to consider her as a human being, or as anything but a dream-figment made flesh".

I think this is the epitaph to Epstein. He did not consider anyone as a human being, much less the girls whose lives he destroyed.