James Allen dot com

[Stephan]

I love browsing their website because most of their diamonds do have a picture and the certificate is online too.
But I don''t understand some pricing and cut grades given by them.
I just wanted to share 3 diamonds, just look at the cut given by JA, at the pictures and at the price.
I love the first one!

number 1
number 2
number 3
Am I wrong by thinking number 1, the premium cut, is obviously better looking than the 2 ideal cuts?
How can you explain the huge price difference between number one and number two?
I don''t want to buy one of these three (I''ll have a project to buy something else after my surgery) but I just wanted to listen to your explanations.

 

[Lorelei]

Hi Stephan

I think JA won't give the Ideal Cut label to a diamond with a table size of 58% or greater...The other 2 are steep deeps. Not sure on the price difference as to why....Except it could come down to the price fluctuation factors in the past as to the prices of each. Maybe the Ideal Cut label accounts for some of it...

 

[Stephan]

Date: 7/20/2009 8:26:02 AM
Author: Lorelei
Hi Stephan

I think JA won''t give the Ideal Cut label to a diamond with a table size of 58% or greater...The other 2 are steep deeps.

Hi Lorelei!

I was thinking the same way than you.
But look at number 3... It scares me!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/20/2009 8:30:36 AM
Author: QueenMum

Date: 7/20/2009 8:26:02 AM
Author: Lorelei
Hi Stephan

I think JA won''t give the Ideal Cut label to a diamond with a table size of 58% or greater...The other 2 are steep deeps.

Hi Lorelei!

I was thinking the same way than you.
But look at number 3... It scares me!

LOL - me too!

 

[Stephan]

It really makes me smile.
Other vendors would sell number 1 as a H&A, and why not?
Number 1 is bigger than number 2, has a better symmetry, better HCA score and is about 4 bucks cheaper for the same color/clarity combo.
The diamond world is very strange.

 

[Lula]

#1 also has the newest cert (March 2009); the other two are 2008. Wonder if it's "post-economic-crash" pricing for the newer stone?

I'm not sure if the 80% lgf on #3 can save that crown/pav angle combo or not -- calling Storm!!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/20/2009 8:47:22 AM
Author: sarap333
#1 also has the newest cert (March 2009); the other two are 2008. Wonder if it's 'post-economic-crash' pricing for the newer stone?

I'm not sure if the 80% lgf on #3 can save that crown/pav angle combo or not -- calling Storm!!

- nope - check out the picture, you can see the leakage!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/20/2009 8:39:57 AM
Author: QueenMum
It really makes me smile.
Other vendors would sell number 1 as a H&A, and why not?
Number 1 is bigger than number 2, has a better symmetry, better HCA score and is about 4 bucks cheaper for the same color/clarity combo.
The diamond world is very strange.

Because it''s not. If it were, it would be under JA''s H&A selection, be labled ideal, and come with an IS/arrow pic. The table isn''t really in the ideal range for that level, which is another indication that it''s not top cut. Also, while depth is acceptable, you rarely see H&A cut at this depth.

 

[Stephan]

Ellen,
I didn''t express myself correctly.
By writing "and why not", I meant:
Other vendors would sell number 1 as a H&A, and I wouldn''t blame them because I think this diamond is even more gorgeous than a lot of H&A''s there outside.

 

[stone-cold11]

Definitely due to when the stones are cut, and JA''s weird rule of table 58% and greater being Premium instead of Ideal. Good for people who knows how to search.

#3, probably no way the 80% LGF is going to help that.

 

[Lula]

Date: 7/20/2009 8:59:20 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 7/20/2009 8:47:22 AM

Author: sarap333

#1 also has the newest cert (March 2009); the other two are 2008. Wonder if it's 'post-economic-crash' pricing for the newer stone?


I'm not sure if the 80% lgf on #3 can save that crown/pav angle combo or not -- calling Storm!!

- nope - check out the picture, you can see the leakage!

Eeeeewwwwww - I just looked at the photo. You're right, Lorelei, that's pretty bad. A picture says 1,000 words in this case.

 

[Stephan]

Date: 7/20/2009 9:08:09 AM
Author: Ellen
If it were, it would be under JA''s H&A selection, be labled ideal, and come with an IS/arrow pic.

Oh yeah, do you mean like this one?
number 4

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/20/2009 9:25:08 AM
Author: sarap333

Date: 7/20/2009 8:59:20 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 7/20/2009 8:47:22 AM

Author: sarap333

#1 also has the newest cert (March 2009); the other two are 2008. Wonder if it''s ''post-economic-crash'' pricing for the newer stone?


I''m not sure if the 80% lgf on #3 can save that crown/pav angle combo or not -- calling Storm!!

- nope - check out the picture, you can see the leakage!

Eeeeewwwwww - I just looked at the photo. You''re right, Lorelei, that''s pretty bad. A picture says 1,000 words in this case.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/20/2009 9:17:12 AM
Author: QueenMum
Ellen,
I didn''t express myself correctly.
By writing ''and why not'', I meant:
Other vendors would sell number 1 as a H&A, and I wouldn''t blame them because I think this diamond is even more gorgeous than a lot of H&A''s there outside.

I knew what you meant! It still comes down to cut, and that one wouldn''t make it. A stone has to meet certain criteria to be labled a H&A, and pics must be provided to back up the claim, and the price.

As for the other stone you linked, yes, that''s in their H&A section, so it''s possible it''s a H&A cut. However, without heart pics (which as of now they don''t provide, but will in the near future I hear) one still can''t be sure. And with the depth and angles it has, I am somewhat skeptical certain other vendors would sell it as H&A....

 

[Stephan]

Date: 7/20/2009 9:40:41 AM
Author: Ellen
As for the other stone you linked, yes, that''s in their H&A section, so it''s possible it''s a H&A cut.

No.
When a diamond is too steep/deep even for the GIA (see the only VG cut), it can not be ideal.
Really.

 

[Stephan]

Date: 7/20/2009 9:27:21 AM
Author: QueenMum

Date: 7/20/2009 9:08:09 AM
Author: Ellen
If it were, it would be under JA's H&A selection, be labled ideal, and come with an IS/arrow pic.

Oh yeah, do you mean like this one?
number 4

Ellen, if you didn't notice it, this comment was ironic.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/20/2009 9:56:20 AM
Author: QueenMum

Date: 7/20/2009 9:40:41 AM
Author: Ellen
As for the other stone you linked, yes, that's in their H&A section, so it's possible it's a H&A cut.

No.
When a diamond is too steep/deep even for the GIA (see the only VG cut), it can not be ideal.
Really.

I'm not saying it would pass muster with most of the vendors who sell them, but I believe a stone can show hearts and arrows, without being top cut (just as a top cut may not show H&A). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/20/2009 10:02:38 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 7/20/2009 9:56:20 AM
Author: QueenMum

Date: 7/20/2009 9:40:41 AM
Author: Ellen
As for the other stone you linked, yes, that''s in their H&A section, so it''s possible it''s a H&A cut.

No.
When a diamond is too steep/deep even for the GIA (see the only VG cut), it can not be ideal.
Really.

I''m not saying it would pass muster with most of the vendors who sell them, but I believe a stone can show hearts and arrows, without being top cut (just as a top cut may not show H&A). Someone correct me if I''m wrong.

Thats always been my understanding too.

 

[Ellen]

Thankies Lorele!

 

[Stephan]

Date: 7/20/2009 10:02:38 AM
Author: Ellen
I''m not saying it would pass muster with most of the vendors who sell them, but I believe a stone can show hearts and arrows, without being top cut (just as a top cut may not show H&A). Someone correct me if I''m wrong.

That is what I''m saying about number 1.
For your criteria, it is perhaps not deep enough (?!?) and has an gigantic table.
But, as the AGS and the GIA do, please let me disagree with what you call ideal, top cut, or whatever.
This stone is GIA EX cut, and I could bet with you AGS would grade it ideal 0.
I''m pretty sure it will exhibit a H&A pattern and I''m certain it''s gorgeous.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/20/2009 10:25:49 AM
Author: QueenMum

Date: 7/20/2009 10:02:38 AM
Author: Ellen
I'm not saying it would pass muster with most of the vendors who sell them, but I believe a stone can show hearts and arrows, without being top cut (just as a top cut may not show H&A). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That is what I'm saying about number 1.
For your criteria, it is perhaps not deep enough (?!?) and has an gigantic table.
But, as the AGS and the GIA do, please let me disagree with what you call ideal, top cut, or whatever.
This stone is GIA EX cut, and I could bet with you AGS would grade it ideal 0.
I'm pretty sure it will exhibit a H&A pattern and I'm certain it's gorgeous.

If the first were capable of being passed off as H&A, I'd think JA would be listing it as such, they command a price premium.

But feel free to disagree with me!

 

[Stephan]

Date: 7/20/2009 10:34:04 AM
Author: Ellen
If the first were capable of being passed off as H&A, I''d think JA would be listing it as such, they command a price premium.

But feel free to disagree with me!

1) All the diamonds are not in house.
2) It seems like they have a 59% table rule, as Lorelei said, that makes them reject such diamonds. It''s possible they only work with table and depth percentage. A 36.5 crown with a 40.8 pavilion should be rejected. Why should people want such a H&A if it is a poor performer? I don''t need an IdealScope picture to say that this diamond will leak in the table.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/20/2009 10:40:56 AM
Author: QueenMum

1) All the diamonds are not in house.
2) It seems like they have a 59% table rule, as Lorelei said, that makes them reject such diamonds. It's possible they only work with table and depth percentage. A 36.5 crown with a 40.8 pavilion should be rejected. Why should people want such a H&A if it is a poor performer? I don't need an IdealScope picture to say that this diamond will leak in the table.

Ok, missed that part. But Stephan, without pics, I'm just wondering how you can be so sure 1 would be a H&A? And stll, there's only one vendor I know of who carries stones of those proportions in their "H&A"....

And I agree with you on the other stone.

 

[Stephan]

Ellen, there is a picture.
Without H&A viewer or IdealScope, but you can see with what precision this diamond is cut.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/20/2009 11:00:28 AM
Author: QueenMum
Ellen, there is a picture.
Without H&A viewer or IdealScope, but you can see with what precision this diamond is cut.

Stephan, I really am not trying to be argumentitive here! I know there is a picture, but without a view from the bottom, you can''t say unequivocally it''s a H&A. Also, without a Sarin/Helium report, one can''t truly comment on the precision of the cut (and it would need precision on that pavilion angle, or could well be a bit leaky). Yes, it''s got a great view from the top, but that''s all one can really say.

Ok, I''m done!

 

[YoungPapa]

Hey folks!

Busy Monday morning but couldn''t help missing a thread with my name in the subject. Just a few quick clarifications:

- We are busy taking H&A photographs and have about 300 "raw" images so far. We will start getting them cropped and resized and online before the end of the month but won''t have everything photographed for several more weeks. Until then we are ready to start accepting heart requests, but *only* for diamonds already part of the H&A program. (If we immediately get bombarded with heart requests and it slows us down too considerably I might have to retract that statement, but we''ll do the best we can.)
- The diamonds in our H&A program are cut specifically for us by one of the largest producers of H&A diamonds in the world. There may be other diamonds on our website that meet our H&A standard but are only listed as "Ideal". Just because a diamond isn''t listed as H&A doesn''t necessarily mean we''ve rejected it.
- Our systems will only label a round diamond as "Ideal" if the table percentage is < 58.0%. This kicks some diamonds into the "Premium" category that received GIA "excellent" or AGS "ideal" ratings.
- The GIA VG cut pointed out in the thread is not part of the H&A collection. Not sure how it got listed but it''s being removed from that section today.

Hope this helps!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/20/2009 11:46:18 AM
Author: James Allen Schultz
Hey folks!

Busy Monday morning but couldn''t help missing a thread with my name in the subject. Just a few quick clarifications:

- We are busy taking H&A photographs and have about 300 ''raw'' images so far. We will start getting them cropped and resized and online before the end of the month but won''t have everything photographed for several more weeks. Until then we are ready to start accepting heart requests, but *only* for diamonds already part of the H&A program. (If we immediately get bombarded with heart requests and it slows us down too considerably I might have to retract that statement, but we''ll do the best we can.)
- The diamonds in our H&A program are cut specifically for us by one of the largest producers of H&A diamonds in the world. There may be other diamonds on our website that meet our H&A standard but are only listed as ''Ideal''. Just because a diamond isn''t listed as H&A doesn''t necessarily mean we''ve rejected it.
- Our systems will only label a round diamond as ''Ideal'' if the table percentage is < 58.0%. This kicks some diamonds into the ''Premium'' category that received GIA ''excellent'' or AGS ''ideal'' ratings.
- The GIA VG cut pointed out in the thread is not part of the H&A collection. Not sure how it got listed but it''s being removed from that section today.

Hope this helps!

Thanks Jim, that info does help!

 

[Stephan]

Hi Jim!
Thank you for all the explanations!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/20/2009 11:46:18 AM
Author: James Allen Schultz
Hey folks!


Busy Monday morning but couldn''t help missing a thread with my name in the subject. Just a few quick clarifications:


- We are busy taking H&A photographs and have about 300 ''raw'' images so far. We will start getting them cropped and resized and online before the end of the month but won''t have everything photographed for several more weeks. Until then we are ready to start accepting heart requests, but *only* for diamonds already part of the H&A program.

Bravo!!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/20/2009 1:31:57 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/20/2009 11:46:18 AM
Author: James Allen Schultz
Hey folks!


Busy Monday morning but couldn''t help missing a thread with my name in the subject. Just a few quick clarifications:


- We are busy taking H&A photographs and have about 300 ''raw'' images so far. We will start getting them cropped and resized and online before the end of the month but won''t have everything photographed for several more weeks. Until then we are ready to start accepting heart requests, but *only* for diamonds already part of the H&A program.

Bravo!!

Dittoes!

And thanks for the explanations Jim!