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paulp

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
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35
A very reputable PS vendor (4th gen family business) has told me to look at J color diamonds.. He told me they have set many of theses stones in settings and they are as white as the platinum they are set in. That if I stay extremely high with cut quality it will help make the stone brighter. I expressed I want a very vibrant stone, he assured me he could find a J that will loook amazing. This would obviously let me purchase a much bigger diamond. The thing that impressed me was he continued to talk about all aspects, not just how to get more $$ from me. I looked at several GIA J, VS1&VS2, excellent cuts that scored well on the HCA. Such as the following....

This is just an example....

Carat : 1.1
Clarity : VS2
Color : J
GIA SPECIFICATIONS
Measurements: 6.65 x 6.69 x 4.07
Depth: 61
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 33%
Pavilion Angle: 41.2%
Girdle: Thin to slightly thick
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very good
Fluorescence: F
HCA=2
----------------------------------------------
Carat : 1.05
Clarity : VS2
Color : J
GIA SPECIFICATIONS
Measurements: 6.55 x 6.6 x 4.01
Depth: 61
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 33.5%
Pavilion Angle: 41.0%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick
Culet: None
Polish: Very good
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: F
--------------------------------

I have not checked with the vendor on these just seeing what the PS''ers have to say...

SO.........Am I crazy for even thinking this is a possiblity??
 
Those two examples have faint fluor, which will help whiten the color.

I just upgraded to colorless, after carefully weighing all the options from F down to K, and after wearing it a couple of weeks I don't think I'd ever go back to even an H or I color unless I get a heck of a discount on the stone. I really like the bright white, and to me, shown two stones of equivalent RB cut and diameter, the whiter one always looks bigger and brighter. Also, the larger the diaond, the more it tends to concentraqte the color, so smaller diamonds will "wash" tints better than the 1.5ct to 1.6cts that I was looking at. There's kind of a rule that says most people start noticing tint with I color. That said, here are some more J threads with pics.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-04ct-j-si2-in-platinum-tiffany-solitaire-from-niceice.12734/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/j-color-stones-in-platinum.24731/

Here's K: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/k-color-stones-in-platinum-wg.43782/

And I: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-color-stones-in-platinum.9689/
 
I totally agree! If I had known how white a well-cut J looks, I would have gotten one for my e-ring and gone bigger too!
 
Date: 11/19/2009 9:55:41 PM
Author: Kelli
I totally agree! If I had known how white a well-cut J looks, I would have gotten one for my e-ring and gone bigger too!
Click to expand...
Yeah.. I have read some previous postings and there are lots of people who were suprised how white they can be. I''m sure beside a D in perfect conditions you will be able to tell, but...once set?? I think I may discuss this further with the vendor. As long as I express my concerns and expectaions, maybe it can happen????
 
I am very aware of, and sensitive to, color. Regardless, hands down, my favorite diamonds at home are my I-color ER and another ring featuring a J-color center stone, and yes, I can see the tint in each. However, the faint color that I see in these diamonds is not at all obvious, or, most likely, even noticeable to the average person (ie, non-pricescoper or equivalent). Also, near the range you are asking about, I have an exquisite K-color. Like the J, it appears much more colorless than its alpha-name suggests. These are all set in platinum. For what it is worth, I have some Ls, set in yellow gold, and they do look quite "warm" (almost "golden," actually... that''s why I love them). In addition to the individual stone you choose, the metal, as well as fluorescence, will make a difference.

I have pieces with higher colored diamonds, it just happens to be that my high-colored diamonds are not as beautiful as the diamonds that I''ve mentioned. And honestly, after years of coveting D-E-F stones, I know now that I don''t need my diamonds to be high white, I get more pleasure form other characteristics. In fact, I''ve realized that the warmer colors are more flattering to my complexion. So, for me, it is all about the cut and performance of each stone. After cut, my bugaboos are all about clarity and crystal. However, I know that for many people, high color is TOP priority. And I get it. That''s what is so great about diamonds... there truly is something for everyone. You just have to know what it is that YOU (or your diamond-gift recipient) wants.

Bottom line, I say, look for extremely well-cut and great performing stones. Accept nothing less in this regard. And, if you see something YOU love, then, go for it. Don''t let what OTHERS may prefer, or what diamond marketers want you to THINK is "better" in terms of color (even if it IS more expensive) taint your preferences. Whether it is high-color or lower-color, big or small, included or IF... figure out what your priorities are and love, love, love what you pick! If you can live without high color, and you have a jeweler who can find you an awesome J-colored diamond... paulp, I ENVY you!

Now, of course, the big caveat here is if you are shopping for someone else... it gets more complicated, doesn''t it? If so, you have to know and take into consideration your other-half''s desires, dreams and priorities, as well as your own.
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Date: 11/20/2009 12:13:29 AM
Author: Rockit
I am very aware of, and sensitive to, color. Regardless, hands down, my favorite diamonds at home are my I-color ER and another ring featuring a J-color center stone, and yes, I can see the tint in each. However, the faint color that I see in these diamonds is not at all obvious, or, most likely, even noticeable to the average person (ie, non-pricescoper or equivalent). Also, near the range you are asking about, I have an exquisite K-color. Like the J, it appears much more colorless than its alpha-name suggests. These are all set in platinum. For what it is worth, I have some Ls, set in yellow gold, and they do look quite ''warm'' (almost ''golden,'' actually... that''s why I love them). In addition to the individual stone you choose, the metal, as well as fluorescence, will make a difference.

I have pieces with higher colored diamonds, it just happens to be that my high-colored diamonds are not as beautiful as the diamonds that I''ve mentioned. And honestly, after years of coveting D-E-F stones, I know now that I don''t need my diamonds to be high white, I get more pleasure form other characteristics. In fact, I''ve realized that the warmer colors are more flattering to my complexion. So, for me, it is all about the cut and performance of each stone. After cut, my bugaboos are all about clarity and crystal. However, I know that for many people, high color is TOP priority. And I get it. That''s what is so great about diamonds... there truly is something for everyone. You just have to know what it is that YOU (or your diamond-gift recipient) wants.

Bottom line, I say, look for extremely well-cut and great performing stones. Accept nothing less in this regard. And, if you see something YOU love, then, go for it. Don''t let what OTHERS may prefer, or what diamond marketers want you to THINK is ''better'' in terms of color (even if it IS more expensive) taint your preferences. Whether it is high-color or lower-color, big or small, included or IF... figure out what your priorities are and love, love, love what you pick! If you can live without high color, and you have a jeweler who can find you an awesome J-colored diamond... paulp, I ENVY you!

Now, of course, the big caveat here is if you are shopping for someone else... it gets more complicated, doesn''t it? If so, you have to know and take into consideration your other-half''s desires, dreams and priorities, as well as your own.
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Click to expand...
Thanks for the comments.. I wish I could see one in person to decide whether to persue this whole "J" search!
 
Date: 11/20/2009 12:13:29 AM
Author: Rockit
Now, of course, the big caveat here is if you are shopping for someone else... it gets more complicated, doesn''t it? If so, you have to know and take into consideration your other-half''s desires, dreams and priorities, as well as your own.
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Click to expand...

Agree 100%. We sat down and had an SA put an I next to an E (totally unfair comparison, I know) to quantify just how much color was in an I. Before that, I could tell it was a little warm, and she couldn''t see the difference. Next to each other, though, she definitely saw the difference... and so in her mind, anything around I wasn''t "mind clean" even though by itself she probably wouldn''t be able to tell. They were also IGI diamonds, so it could very well have been like comparing a J-L to a F-H, but the point remains... has to be mind-clean to her. Personally, I still think I could have gotten away with a GIA/AGS J (and say it was ''equivalent'' to the IGI H''s she saw lol) but it''s all in her head now.

I think you could do just fine with a well-cut J... just be sure not to put it in a setting with anything above an I!
 
Clarity, color, cut and size are ALWAYS a balancing act against price, even for people with enormous budgets. Drop one and you can either raise another or lower the price. This brings in a huge element of taste. A common objective is to find the biggest diamond you can get with the brightest cutting possible and clarity and color at the lowest level that won’t be visibly seen as deficient. In the case of color, this is taken to mean that it won’t be seen as off-white under normal viewing conditions by a person with 20-20 vision and normal color perception. That’s a lot of qualifiers and not everyone will have the same answer. In fact, not everyone sees icy white as the most desirable color. That said, a well cut J will fill that requirement for nearly everyone.

For what it’s worth, I gave my wife a J/SI2 in her engagement ring that worked out just fine. I owned a jewelry store when I got married and we occasionally would hang out amongst with some fairly serious diamond snobs. No one would know the color unless one of us chose to tell them. Contrary to popular perception, jewelers aren't nearly as well paid as people expect but there was a fair amount of social and business pressure to go fairly large so I definitely pushed the limits on clarity and color in order to get the size. I never regretted it although if I were doing it now I would have paid the premium to push the upper limit for cutting.

If you haven't visited some jewelers to look at actual stones and get a feel for your own temperament on these things, it's something you really should look into. There's lots of jewelers out there who would love to show you their inventory and hardly any of them bite.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Neil great story; thank you.
 
Date: 11/20/2009 10:34:10 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Clarity, color, cut and size are ALWAYS a balancing act against price, even for people with enormous budgets. Drop one and you can either raise another or lower the price. This brings in a huge element of taste. A common objective is to find the biggest diamond you can get with the brightest cutting possible and clarity and color at the lowest level that won’t be visibly seen as deficient. In the case of color, this is taken to mean that it won’t be seen as off-white under normal viewing conditions by a person with 20-20 vision and normal color perception. That’s a lot of qualifiers and not everyone will have the same answer. In fact, not everyone sees icy white as the most desirable color. That said, a well cut J will fill that requirement for nearly everyone.

For what it’s worth, I gave my wife a J/SI2 in her engagement ring that worked out just fine. I owned a jewelry store when I got married and we occasionally would hang out amongst with some fairly serious diamond snobs. No one would know the color unless one of us chose to tell them. Contrary to popular perception, jewelers aren''t nearly as well paid as people expect but there was a fair amount of social and business pressure to go fairly large so I definitely pushed the limits on clarity and color in order to get the size. I never regretted it although if I were doing it now I would have paid the premium to push the upper limit for cutting.

If you haven''t visited some jewelers to look at actual stones and get a feel for your own temperament on these things, it''s something you really should look into. There''s lots of jewelers out there who would love to show you their inventory and hardly any of them bite.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
Click to expand...
Thanks Neil! I might just go bug the local B&M to see if I''m able to see a "J"... Although, I doubt any of them will have an extremely well cut diamond of that color such as I''m looking for.
 
Date: 11/20/2009 9:48:59 AM
Author: tonyc2387

Date: 11/20/2009 12:13:29 AM
Author: Rockit
Now, of course, the big caveat here is if you are shopping for someone else... it gets more complicated, doesn''t it? If so, you have to know and take into consideration your other-half''s desires, dreams and priorities, as well as your own.
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Click to expand...

Agree 100%. We sat down and had an SA put an I next to an E (totally unfair comparison, I know) to quantify just how much color was in an I. Before that, I could tell it was a little warm, and she couldn''t see the difference. Next to each other, though, she definitely saw the difference... and so in her mind, anything around I wasn''t ''mind clean'' even though by itself she probably wouldn''t be able to tell. They were also IGI diamonds, so it could very well have been like comparing a J-L to a F-H, but the point remains... has to be mind-clean to her. Personally, I still think I could have gotten away with a GIA/AGS J (and say it was ''equivalent'' to the IGI H''s she saw lol) but it''s all in her head now.

I think you could do just fine with a well-cut J... just be sure not to put it in a setting with anything above an I!
Click to expand...
Guess you could agrue the apples to apples thing?? I''m just curious to see what the quality/quantity trade-off will be. If its lively and vibrant, I''m in. With that being said, no matter what color, clarity, carat, etc.. I want a very nice diamond. If that means its a 1.15 J VS2 or a .89 E SI1 so be it. I won''t loose sight of quality for quantity, I''m just trying to push the bar a little to see if its achievable to have the best of both worlds. I''m sure some will strongly agree and write the diamond off simply for color, however... I''m sure there are 3x as many that could care less as long as it does its job and sparkles like crazy!
 
I was previously working with a different vendor on a D stone. The reason I even decided to look at this color is because the vendor I was working with tried to sell me a diamond for a considerable amount more than another ps vendor ... Good thing I put all the specs in for a price comparison or I would have made a huge mistake. I would recommend this to any newbie!!!!! Check the price comparison w/ the exact figures, you might just save yourself from getting ripped off!
 
Hopefully I am just adding to your knowledge base, I had an I stone and was very happy with it didn''t bother me at all and then I decided to upgrade to a bigger stone and found an amazing J and I am even more happy with this stone. It has amazing personality and I don''t see any tint and it looks great in the plat setting I have it in. Of course as others have said color sensitivity varies from person to person and if you are very sensitive you will likely see some body color in the stone and this may bother you.
For reference my old stone was a 2.04ct I SI1 and I now have a 2.5ct J VS1 and as I said it is an amazing stone.

Good luck!
 
Date: 11/20/2009 11:44:36 AM
Author: paulp
Guess you could agrue the apples to apples thing?? I''m just curious to see what the quality/quantity trade-off will be. If its lively and vibrant, I''m in. With that being said, no matter what color, clarity, carat, etc.. I want a very nice diamond. If that means its a 1.15 J VS2 or a .89 E SI1 so be it. I won''t loose sight of quality for quantity, I''m just trying to push the bar a little to see if its achievable to have the best of both worlds. I''m sure some will strongly agree and write the diamond off simply for color, however... I''m sure there are 3x as many that could care less as long as it does its job and sparkles like crazy!
Click to expand...

I could... but her ideal was 1ish ct, H+, SI1+. Sure, could''ve done that, with a lousy cut... but that would have been considered blasphemy here
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I considered dropping the color to get the weight up, but decided I''d be better off keeping the color and dropping the weight to stay within budget because she really didn''t want a yellow rock. Plus, I figured a poorly cut steep/deep 1ct would face up close in size to the .84 I got anyway
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Like Neil said, it''s quite the balancing act... and personally, I think J is an excellent way to get the best of both worlds. I too wanted to make sure it sparkled like crazy everywhere, so I wasn''t willing to sacrifice on cut at all... I just went the other way on color because I knew how my OH felt about it. After all, primary goal is to make her happy, right? That being said, make sure you go see a few J''s, and if you can, compare them to an E, G, and I. Only you can make the final call as to which is detectable, and which is acceptable... and if you get a chance to test across that range, you should have a pretty darn good idea of what you''re getting.

As for the D though... good call
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unless you want bragging rights, it''s almost always a waste of money. Neil has a perfect example up there...
 
ALSO, make sure you are looking at well cut J stones graded by a reputable lab! I''ve seen some mall stones graded by XYZ Labs and Transmissions
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that were pee yellow and deader than a nit.
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Um, no thank you, sir!!!

(Ditto with clarity... look for well cut stones graded by a reputable lab. I''ve seen mall stones graded SI that were VERY salt-and-peppery and/or with big ol'' black boulders hovering under the table... um... pass!!!)
 
It''ll be GIA or AGS.

emotion-16.gif
... Now I''m second guessing whether the whole thing is a good idea. Guess I will try to see one in person and go from there. Too many decisions, its all starting to clog my brain!!

What about the negatives of the J, I really havent heard many???????
 
Date: 11/20/2009 8:29:03 PM
Author: paulp
It''ll be GIA or AGS.

emotion-16.gif
... Now I''m second guessing whether the whole thing is a good idea. Guess I will try to see one in person and go from there. Too many decisions, its all starting to clog my brain!!

What about the negatives of the J, I really havent heard many???????
Click to expand...
Negatives? Of a well-cut killer "J"? None in my book!

But, that being said, I''m not sure you''d call these negatives... but there''ll always be those people who aren''t going to be satisfied with anything less than a "D"... or a "G" or an "I", or whatever. And that''s fine... it''s personal preference and sometimes a "mind clean" issue.

You need to remember that color in a diamond isn''t BAD... it just is. Just because your buddy likes blondes and you like redheads, does that make being a redhead a "negative"?!
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I love my "J''s"!! As everyone else has indicated, the cut quality is key. My J''s sparkle much more than some other people in my office who went for size.
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Hahaha, I love PS and I
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Yekutiel at ID Jewelry for picking out great bling for me.
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Date: 11/20/2009 8:29:03 PM
Author: paulp
It''ll be GIA or AGS.

emotion-16.gif
... Now I''m second guessing whether the whole thing is a good idea. Guess I will try to see one in person and go from there. Too many decisions, its all starting to clog my brain!!

What about the negatives of the J, I really havent heard many???????
Click to expand...
You might notice a hint of warmth from the side from a J colour in some lighting, although to me this isn''t a negative - nor is it to many other people but see what you personally think when you view some. Make sure to view some of similar size, shape, cut quality and lab grade to the one you intend to buy.
 
Date: 11/20/2009 10:12:42 PM
Author: miraclesrule
I love my ''J''s''!! As everyone else has indicated, the cut quality is key. My J''s sparkle much more than some other people in my office who went for size.
30.gif
30.gif
30.gif
Hahaha, I love PS and I
30.gif
30.gif
30.gif
Yekutiel at ID Jewelry for picking out great bling for me.
36.gif
Click to expand...
Any pics or specs??

Maybe I will give ID a call
 
Date: 11/21/2009 5:33:19 AM
Author: Lorelei


Date: 11/20/2009 8:29:03 PM
Author: paulp
It'll be GIA or AGS.

emotion-16.gif
... Now I'm second guessing whether the whole thing is a good idea. Guess I will try to see one in person and go from there. Too many decisions, its all starting to clog my brain!!

What about the negatives of the J, I really havent heard many???????
Click to expand...
You might notice a hint of warmth from the side from a J colour in some lighting, although to me this isn't a negative - nor is it to many other people but see what you personally think when you view some. Make sure to view some of similar size, shape, cut quality and lab grade to the one you intend to buy.
Click to expand...
Lorelei,

Interested in helping search for a few good ones... ?? or anyone for that matter??

THANKS
 
Date: 11/21/2009 8:07:06 AM
Author: paulp


Date: 11/21/2009 5:33:19 AM
Author: Lorelei



Date: 11/20/2009 8:29:03 PM
Author: paulp
It'll be GIA or AGS.

emotion-16.gif
... Now I'm second guessing whether the whole thing is a good idea. Guess I will try to see one in person and go from there. Too many decisions, its all starting to clog my brain!!

What about the negatives of the J, I really havent heard many???????
Click to expand...
You might notice a hint of warmth from the side from a J colour in some lighting, although to me this isn't a negative - nor is it to many other people but see what you personally think when you view some. Make sure to view some of similar size, shape, cut quality and lab grade to the one you intend to buy.
Click to expand...
Lorelei,

Interested in helping search for a few good ones... ANYONE??
Click to expand...
Sure! What is your budget and the size you want?
 
Budget is around $4000+/- at this point depending on the setting. I know what I want, just dpends what vendor I use.
The same setting seems to vary by as much as $800 from vendor to vendor. I''m hoping to do a 1 stop shop so I need a little $$ room for error. Guess what I''m trying to say is, if that PERFECT diamond is $4235..I will find a way to do it. However, less is always better.

so..


cut- AMAZING
size- 1ct range(was hoping to get a little more size with the J)
clarity- was thinking I could go VS2 or better w?that budget and color??

Thanks a bunch!!
 
Date: 11/21/2009 8:19:40 AM
Author: paulp
Budget is around $4000+/- at this point depending on the setting. I know what I want, just dpends what vendor I use.
The same setting seems to vary by as much as $800 from vendor to vendor. I'm hoping to do a 1 stop shop so I need a little $$ room for error. Guess what I'm trying to say is, if that PERFECT diamond is $4235..I will find a way to do it. However, less is always better.

so..


cut- AMAZING
size- 1ct range(was hoping to get a little more size with the J)
clarity- was thinking I could go VS2 or better w?that budget and color??

Thanks a bunch!!
Click to expand...
Ok I will go a hunting.....back in a bit!

Need the grading report for this one and an Idealscope, might have potential

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1199451.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1264864.asp

Same with this one

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1193288.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1260107.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1264089.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1264297.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1227826.asp ( check the cloud isn't dulling brilliance by asking the vendor to check)

You will see more in the way of SI1 clarity but if verified eyeclean by the vendor this is a way to get the size you want.
 
man Lorelei, you have one heck of a knack for searching! that is one nice selection there.

paulp, this one caught my eye as one that has a few interesting tradeoffs, but still fits within your budget:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1260168.asp

0.91 I VS1 H&A ideal. So from Lorelei's suggestions, you drop .1ct, but gain 1 step in color, 1-2 steps in clarity, and 1 step in cut.

granted, we're talking ideal vs superideal cut, so there probably won't be that much of a difference in performance... it's just another option if you like the idea of H&A. you can't go wrong with any of the suggestions here!
 
Date: 11/21/2009 10:39:18 AM
Author: tonyc2387
man Lorelei, you have one heck of a knack for searching! that is one nice selection there.

paulp, this one caught my eye as one that has a few interesting tradeoffs, but still fits within your budget:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1260168.asp

0.91 I VS1 H&A ideal. So from Lorelei's suggestions, you drop .1ct, but gain 1 step in color, 1-2 steps in clarity, and 1 step in cut.

granted, we're talking ideal vs superideal cut, so there probably won't be that much of a difference in performance... it's just another option if you like the idea of H&A. you can't go wrong with any of the suggestions here!
Click to expand...
Thanks Tony!
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Date: 11/21/2009 8:02:46 AM
Author: paulp

Date: 11/20/2009 10:12:42 PM
Author: miraclesrule
I love my ''J''s''!! As everyone else has indicated, the cut quality is key. My J''s sparkle much more than some other people in my office who went for size.
30.gif
30.gif
30.gif
Hahaha, I love PS and I
30.gif
30.gif
30.gif
Yekutiel at ID Jewelry for picking out great bling for me.
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Click to expand...
Any pics or specs??

Maybe I will give ID a call
Click to expand...
I don''t have any pictures yet because I have a crappy camera. I could try today.

Here is a link to my thread about my pendant. It''s .91 J SI1.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/feedback-on-this-diamond.127473/

I had the ultimate affirmation the other night at our Board Meeting. Adults are usually to polite to comment on my new pendant and studs, but the 10-year old girl in the room who had to be quiet and draw came over and sat next to me and after a few minutes, she tugged on my arm and put her face close to mine and said "I really like your earrings"
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Ahhhhh, the fearlessness and wonder of a child. I thanked her quietly, but I wanted to say "Don''t you worry sweetheart, in another 20 years when you get married or if you give your Mom a grandchild, you''ll probably get a pair of earrings just like mine. Remember the word "Pricescope". Then it was my turn to talk business and I almost forgot I was in a meeting.

Good Luck on your search!!
 
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