Izzy's update

[Izzy03]

Hello! I've keeping incredibly busy with clinicals and studying for boards, things have been great and I am surprisingly happy.

I talk to my husband about once or twice a week for the past 2 weeks, and had lunch with him once last week. Otherwise there has been not been much contact and he has been respecting my need to distance myself from him. He has been seeing a psychologist twice a week and thinks he has been making great changes. For the past year, pills do not seem to have been much of a struggle for him, and his anger was the primary problem we were having. He told me that he has stopped taking even benedryl at bedtime and swears to remain pill free aside from the occasional nsaid, we'll see I guess.

He really does seem better, more positive, more easy going, just overall not so uptight and almost at peace. I have known all along that poor coping skills have been the root of his problems with pills and anger, because he is genuinely a great person. When finances and family were not stressing him, he would be fine for months at a time. Then life would become complicated and he was unbearable to be around for weeks. It was a constant cycle.

He has been asking me to come back, but not hounding me about it. I am not fearful that he will physically hurt me, and I know he loves me. The few times we have talked I have really been able to express myself to him without any hesitation, and he readily takes responsibility for everything that happened in our marriage. The problem for me is that, I have put up such a huge wall to block out my feelings towards him, that I find myself not really caring if we end up together or not. Like it might just be easier to start over with someone else. I don't know what to do.

Perhaps I am afraid that eventually he will resume his bad habits. He has told me that he has no intentions on quitting therapy for a very long time and recognizes that this will be an ongoing process. His psychologist has told him that in his professional opinion he feels it is safe for us to try again with our marriage, but I want to see what our marriage counselor has to say about it.

I do plan on staying put for another few weeks at least, but I am thinking about giving him another shot and moving back in our home on a trial basis. I would not move all of my stuff back in, just the necessities. While I think I would be okay if the marriage ended now, my fear is that one day I will look back and regret not giving him the chance to show me if he really can change. I don't want to wonder "what if?". I really wish I had taken the steps to move out a long time ago because this seems to have been a huge wake up call for him.

Would it be stupid for me to have a "trial reconciliation" in a few weeks/months? I know I would NOT be doing this because I am lonely (I'm not lonely at all, I've been spending time with great friends, and studying my buns off). I am simply curious to see if he will be able to make REAL changes, and maybe we could be happy again. Without a doubt, if he ever displays signs of rage or addiction in the future, I would surely walk out, no hesitation.

Am I an idiot?

 

[iheartscience]

Have you been to a psychologist yet? You need just as much help as he does.

This is probably a waste of time to even type since you seem to have your mind made up, but WHY would you move back in with someone who has been emotionally AND physically abusive to you? He's been going to a psychologist for a few weeks and you've decided he's already made a miraculous recovery? That's not a decision a person with a healthy view of relationships would make.

As for him not hurting you, that's what you said before, and he pushed you so hard you fell down and hurt yourself. That is hurting you. Abusive behavior escalates. What's going to happen next time?

Get help. Go see a psychologist BY YOURSELF.

 

[TravelingGal]

Without a doubt, if he ever displays signs of rage or addiction in the future, I would surely walk out, no hesitation.

<-------------
Yeah right. I don't believe you.

 

[random_thought]

Without a doubt, if he ever displays signs of rage or addiction in the future, I would surely walk out, no hesitation.

<-------------
Yeah right. I don't believe you.

Unfortunately I have to ditto this...

 

[Treasure43]

He's physically hurt you, caused you all sorts of emotional pain, yet you are still considering getting back together with him? I think, from reading your past posts, that if you walk away (completely....no lunches or anything) in 5 years you'll be patting yourself on the back and be in a healthy relationship with someone who respects and deserves you. And no matter how you rationalize it, he doesn't respect or deserve you. He obviously has serious issues and those don't change overnight. Love yourself enough not to be treated that way. I read something in a book by Gary Chapman and he says "Allowing oneself to be used or manipulated by another is not an act of love. It is, in fact, an act of treason. You are allowing him to develop inhumane habits. Love says "I love you too much to let you treat me this way. It is not good for you or me"". It seems to apply here so I thought I'd share it. Trust me, a more amazing guy who will treat you right is out there!

 

[janinegirly]

Without a doubt, if he ever displays signs of rage or addiction in the future, I would surely walk out, no hesitation.

<-------------
Yeah right. I don't believe you.

Unfortunately I have to ditto this...

Sorry but I agree with all the above. I see a pattern here and as an outsider it's clear you are rationalizing when there should be no room for that. Your bar is set too low. This is all you choice of course but you know the overused adage "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice; shame on me."

 

[zoebartlett]

Izzy, I usually don't get involved in these types of threads because I don't feel comfortable giving someone I don't know advice about something so serious. I did want to chime in now though. I have read your other threads, and now this post. It seemed full of contradictions.

I believe addiction is a disease and it takes A LOT of work for someone and his family to deal with. If I was in your situation, I'd focus on myself, go to support meetings and a therapist, and try to heal. As hard as it might be, I wouldn't hang out with my husband until he has been in therapy for quite a while and has shows consistent signs of recovery. It's great that your husband is seeing a therapist now, and I'm glad that he may be making positive changes. It just seems way too soon to consider going back in my opinion. You've mentioned his cycle before, and I'm not sure if it will change in such a short amount of time.

I do believe people can change. I've seen it. I believe the disease of addiction is something that stays with a person, but unless they're using the tools from support groups and other resources, things may not change.

I hope your husband gets healthy, both physically and mentally.

Focus on yourself right now. Get the help and support you need as well.

 

[lliang_chi]

Izzy, before you move a toothbrush in, GO TALK TO A PROFESSIONAL. You keep coming on PS for advice, voice your opinions, share your story. It's obvious you want to talk to someone. But, as much as we care about your well being, we're not the person you need to talk to.

You ***NEED*** to talk to a psychologist/licensed counselor yourself. You have a LOT of emotions and questions to sort out. They can help you make you STRONGER. Honestly, you AND your husband are both weak right now. Why do you want to test a bond made with weak links? Strengthen yourselves individually, THEN your marriage will be stronger. I hope I'm getting through to you.

~LC

 

[fieryred33143]

Izzy, you do not sound (and have not sounded) like a woman who is truly done. You need to get to that point when you are just completely over the abuse, his lies and broken promises, and realize you deserve better. Until you get there, you'll keep falling into the same cycle.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I think you've already gotten great advice--namely about going to individual counseling yourself. I also agree that you are rationalizing the decision to stay when you must know it's the wrong decision. I feel like you're more afraid of being alone than being in an abusive relationship, which is why when he gives you the absolute bare minimum to keep you, you take it.

I agree that you haven't hit rock bottom yet--you're not so angry that you tell yourself you're not willing to put up with his sh*t for another minute. I'm afraid that is where your journey is leading, though, and that means there is a very rocky road ahead of you.

 

[movie zombie]

this is a repeat of what has happened before and you're still playing the game with him. he has no real motivation if you go back to him now. he's going to need years of theraphy for any real change to be made. give him those years, please. he needs to be making changes for himself, not to keep you. again, give him the space to make those changes!

and what part of stay away from him did you not understand?! you are a grown woman making your own choices. so make them, take the consequences, and quite whining about him. the only person you have any amount of control over is yourself.....and you don't seem to have much of that.

i'm sorry for being so blunt but you asked. i've seen this syndrome so many times i lost count. until you actually hurt enough you are not going to make the changes you need to make. obviously, you don't hurt enough or have not hurt enough.

either get on with your life and find out who you are and why you keep playing this game with him.....and to be frank, with us as well....with your own therapist or accept him as he is and accept the consequences of your decisions.

i think you knew the reaction you'd get here if you posted you were spending time with him and thinking of moving back in with him. maybe you need the kick in the ash to get back on the reality path. i don't know. but i do know this is: no one and i mean no one is going to look after you any better than you do yourself.

if you move back in now or even in the next year you've again taught him that you don't mean what you say.
if you move back in now or even in the next year you've again said its ok for the violence/emotional mistreatment to escalate.

personally, i don't want to hear any more about him. i want to know did you read the recommended books? are you seeing someone to help you get to the root of why you allow yourself to be disrespected by him? if not, why not? is it easier to put the blame for everything on him? is it easier to ignore that it takes two to tango and you are still doing the dance with him? again, what part of no contact did you not understand?

put on your big girl boots please: make your decisions, take your consequences,..........and don't blame him if you go back and things don't work out. you will have made that decision knowing full well the history of this relationship.

end of rant. end of kick in the ash.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I won't use the term "idiot," but I would say that it would be foolish, naive, and dangerous to believe that he has stopped the cycle or that he will not physically harm you ever again when he already did it when you had moved out and had shown him how "serious" you were. It would be incredibly, incredibly foolish for you to do that just because some day you might feel a little regret that you didn't give him another chance for the 8 millionth time. Your story is very frustrating to read because *you* are allowing this to happen to you. Did you notice how nobody responded to your last update for over two weeks? I'm not saying that you shouldn't come to PS for support because you need it, but don't expect us to give you a different answer to your question.

 

[bubbly1126]

I posted in your other thread about the recent loss of my brother in law to prescription drugs/OD.

You're situation is identical in so many ways to my sisters. She left too... he went to counseling for his addiction and rage, vowed he'd changed and would never do it again. She moved back in. Things were good for about a month and then he went back to his old ways. Within 4 months of that, he OD'd.

Don't go back. Seriously. At least not for a long time. Live apart and work on yourself, while he works on himself. And then work on your relationship together. Don't go back. I told my sister the same thing and I wish with everything in me that she had listened.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

What is obvious is that everything you have done has gotten you to where you are now. What is not so apparent is why anyone with such serious issues would be seeking advice on a diamond forum.

 

[FrekeChild]

You are making stupid decisions.

If it were me, I'd break off all contact with him for at least 6 months. You said in your above post that you don't even care if you get back together with him, that it may be easier to just end it and start over with someone new. Telling to read that. I don't know if you sound "done" but you do sound indifferent towards him--like you can take him or leave him. So I'd leave. Why waste anymore time on someone who may or may not be good for you? Especially when you are wasting time finding someone who could be amazing for you!

If you don't get out now, this is likely to end badly. For you, for him, perhaps both. Maybe even outsiders.

I think this quote is perfect for the situation: Hurt me once, shame on you, hurt me twice, shame on me.

You moved out for a reason Izzy.

 

[Dreamer_D]

OK, you asked. I will answer. Yes, you are being an idiot..

Why were you seeing him for lunch? Talking on the phone with him? You need distance for at least 6-12 months and therapy on your own before you could even consider a reconciliation.

 

[rainwood]

Like Zoe, I've read your previous threads but decided not to participate until now. Your questions was: Am I an idiot?

The answer is: No, because you've got the brains to go through school, BUT you'd be making a very bad decision if you moved back in, even on some temporary or trial basis. Here's why:

1. Fundamental and real change takes time and effort AND testing. You've already said your husband has poor coping skills, and that financial and family stresses caused him to use and be angry. Guess what? There will be more of those stresses ahead, and he needs to find out if he can handle those in a different way without you to blame or to make them better.

2. If you go back, you're telling him, yourself, and everyone else that it's okay for him to be physically and emotionally abusive. Why? Because there were no long-term consequences. You moved out for a brief time, but you moved right back in. As others have said, he will think you didn't mean what you said because you didn't. And it will be harder to get others to help you later because you've already rejected their advice once. Most people realize you can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves and won't waste their time. Look at the reactions you're getting to your post. Expect more of those in the future.

3. If you go back, he has no incentive to do the hard work that therapy and staying clean demand. Things will return to what they were and probably escalate because now he has something else to blame you for. Things will get to the point where one or both of you could end up in the hospital or the morgue. And you need to be okay with that as a possibility. Are you?

4. If you really love him, you should give him a real chance to clean up. He hasn't had enough time to do that. One of the tip-offs for me that he said everything was his fault. That isn't true, he doesn't believe it, and it's just a come-on because he knows that's what you want to hear. But the truth is each of you had a part in letting the situation get to where it was, each of you must come to terms with that, and fix the parts of yourselves that let it happen. You need to do that apart, maybe permanently.

I'm also going to echo those who've said you need to seek therapy for yourself, and shouldn't rely on us anonymous amateurs. I'm assuming you're in this forum because you can't or won't get therapy for some reason so I've taken a shot at it. But I am no substitute for real help. Please seek out a professional, and don't make any big decisions about reconciliation until you better understand what a dangerous and bad situation you were in and could be again.

 

[Pandora II]

Would you want to bring up children with a man who behaves like your husband? Would you risk having them with a man like that?

If he thinks family or jobs or finances are stressful then he has no idea of how stressful a baby/children can be.

You may not want kids, many people don't and that is fine. But I still think that your life-partner should be the person who you would want to have them with if you were to become so inclined.

I wouldn't begin to say someone had got anywhere in therapy in such a short amount of time - heck the therapist still barely knows him - and I don't believe that he would say it was safe for you to try again unless your husband is lying to him.

You need to have a 6 month no contact break before you even think about having lunch let alone moving back in. Right now he is reeling you in like a little fish. I have a feeling that if you were to tell him that it was 100% over and you were changing your phone no. etc and didn't want to speak to/see him anymore that you might find Mr Nice Guy disappears again.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree with the others who said you need to give it more time. If after 6 months to a year you still want to try, I'd tell him you will come back on a trial basis and only for as long as you both attend marriage counseling. That way you have someone monitoring the relationship which hopefully will keep things from getting too out of hand. But I really think he needs to be totally clean from all substances for a year as well as having counseling before you move back in. He hasn't proven himself yet.

 

[Izzy03]

Thanks everyone, that is EXACTLY the kick in the butt I was needing.

Freke nailed it on the head when she said that I sound indifferent about him. I really am exactly that. I could take him or leave him this point. My biggest concern is that part of why I do NOT want to give him another chance is because I am having so much fun being on my own again. I hang out with friends, come and go as I please, and even flirt with cute guys who buy me drinks in exchange for good conversation. I am definitely my old self again and it feels great to have my freedom back, I am no longer walking on eggshells avoiding a fight everyday. I am trying to decide if this is a normal and healthy reaction, or if I am looking at this separation the wrong way. Any insight?

I do want to clarify that I have been seeing a therapist for MONTHS. In fact, it wasn't until after I started seeing my own therapist that my husband FINALLY agreed to seek marriage counseling. I have mentioned my seeking therapy several times, but I'm sure it has gotten lost in the drama of my posts (not to mention people being sick of hearing all of this!). It has been a couple weeks since I have been to a session, but I am scheduled with her again next week. I am also thinking about scheduling an appt with our marriage counselor and going by myself so I can get his perspective on how I am handling all of this.

Really, my posting on here is because sometimes I just need to hear people tell me that he is a jerk, or that I am being stupid, because I am not comfortable talking to most of my classmates or friends about it, and my therapist isn't going to tell it like it is!!! I appreciate all the advice you guys give me and consider everything that is said, even if I do end up doing the opposite. All of your advice gives me a different perspective on the situation and helps me to sort out my own thoughts.

All in all, right now I do NOT want to reconcile, but I am afraid I will look back and regret not giving him another shot. I don't know what to think, can someone like him really ever change?? He has so many great qualities and I really do think he can change, I'm just not sure he will change with me. Maybe he will remarry one day and not make the same mistakes.

I guess I will stick to my guns for now and not worry about him getting impatient with the process.

Pandora~ You mentioned that you think my husband would switch from nice guy back to his old self if I were to cut off contact completely. I hadn't thought about it that way, but it is so true! I am going to stay strong and tell him I do not plan on reconciling in the near future...... I think you are right, his anger may really come out again. This will be an interesting test!

 

[Izzy03]

Oh by the way, as for the self help books, YES I WANT to read them, but honestly, I am barely keeping up with study material for boards right now, I really don't have the extra time for additional readings!

I know I need to get to them soon because I am sure they will help, but right now, passing boards takes priority because I no longer have a husband to support me financially.

 

[monarch64]

Izzy..........................you've received lots of great advice.

I didn't have a therapist. I did everything on my own. Not to say you shouldn't have sought therapy or...whatever....

Look. You need to understand that your ex-husband or husband to become ex is no bueno. I don't think you've figured that out yet. Also, replacing attention you received from your ex with attention from guys in bars is NOT GOOD.

If PS were conducive, I'd give you my number in a heartbeat.

Listen: you've broken free from a terrible relationship/marriage. Great! You've also realized that you're free to do WHATEVER YOU WANT. However, WHATEVER YOU WANT doesn't mean BEING IRRESPONSIBLE! Hate to be a mom about this, but you brought this to PSr's attention and no I feel like I need to watch out for ya.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I am glad to hear you are going to therapy. That and the suggestion of Al-Anon has been my one consistent advice to you in ALL of your threads. I am a big believer in group therapy. There is power in the voice of a group of people who have been through similar situations as you have. I look at it like brushing and flossing your teeth. Both are needed for healthy teeth. Brushing is like group therapy and flossing is like individual.

 

[Treasure43]

I guess I still don't get how you can say you're indifferent to whether you get back together with him but you're still seeing him, considering getting back together with him, and are worried you'll regret leaving him! Honey, it sounds like you're pretty happy being single. Why go back to an abusive and unhealthy relationship?!? Why not enjoy this time, rediscover yourself, and in time, find a wonderful man who you can have a healthy and loving relationship with? As another poster said, do you really want children with this man? I don't know whether or not he can change, but I don't think it can happen as quickly as he claims it has. Things like that take lots of soul searching, time for reflection, and time for slip ups before getting on the right path. Life is full of stresses and he needs to weather a few of those and make sure he can maintain control before you should even THINK of getting back in a relationship with him! I agree with the others that at least 6 months of NO CONTACT would be best.

ALSO! I just reread your older threads and he SHOVED YOU!!! Remember that!

 

[movie zombie]

why worry about him at all at this point in time? i'm sorry but he shoved you and he certainly wasn't worried about you right then, was he?!

let me repeat: NO CONTACT MEANS NO CONTACT. cut it out, woman. you don't need this in your life. you say you're back to your old self. that should tell you something. i don't care if you say he has so many good qualities, i've also heard you say things escalated and he shoved you. that is NOT a good quality.

wake up and smell the coffee. you're having fun. you're your old self. you're enjoying being single. worry about you and let the chips fall where they may in the future. if its meant to be, it will be.........

again, let me repeat NO CONTACT MEANS NO CONTACT. do yourself a favor and understand that.

glad i'm able to oblige you with the kick in the ash! and i'm glad you've got your appointment with your own therapist. personally, i'd cancel the one with the marraige counselor or go to it and inform said counselor you're moving on with your life and no longer interested in remaining a couple.

 

[amc80]

Would it be stupid for me to have a "trial reconciliation" in a few weeks/months?

Yes. Maybe in a few years. And then only if you get your tubes tied.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Okay...shall I plead my case in bullet form?

-He's shoved you
-He lies to you...ALL THE TIME
-He's cheated on you...if you're honest with yourself, you know it's true
-He's continued to use drugs, and lied about. He actually only admitted it when it was FINALLY the lesser of the two evils, cheating v. still using drugs

Girl. Be serious. You need to realize that anyone can play nicey-nice for a few minutes a couple times a week. That's not a stretch. But, move back in? Back to the grind and the day in/out BS of real life? I am willing to bet that within short order he reverts to the guy who is just no good.

I know it sucks to say "this isn't going to work out" and take that next step towards ending the relationship. I bet it even feels good to have both your independence and him, double because he's playing nice. But, for crying out loud, he's not changing because he WANTS TO...he's changing because you're no longer under his thumb. It's sixth grade logic, boys want what they can't have.

A long time ago there was a woman on this site who was talking about remarrying an ex husband who was a recovering addict. I begged her not to go down that road.

Here's the long and short of that...

This husband of yours, if he's in recovery for the right reasons, he'll need to relearn how to live his own life with a babysitter or a watchman. He'll need to figure out coping skills and life management skills. He'll needs to space and room to redefine how he deals with his life, the stressors, the let downs, the social aspects that will put him in situations where there is temptation. If...and only if...he can manage that, then is he really ready to bring another person (i.e: you) into the scenario. That road is often paved with good intentions and major let downs. It's not an easy process, and it's not a fast one, either.

If you love this guy, let him heal himself before you go trotting back into the tenches. Let him get clean and sober, stay clean and sober and then take stock and see if this is the sort of relationship you're still interested in.

 

[Amber St. Clare]

Do you really think that a few visits to the therapist can change him?

I hate to be blunt, but you are making excuses and looking for reasons to go back to a man who is a threat to your physicial safety. Why is it that we can see it, and you can't? Violence always escalates.Big deal, he's ok when he's not stressed. Well, life is full of stressors and do you really want to spend your life wondering what will ignite his next round of rage? And what about children? Is this a man you want to father your children? How about a lifetime of protecting THEM from him? Who will protect YOU?

If you sat down and re read your posts substituting a strangers name for your name, I think you to would be silently screaming "drop this guy like a bad habit".

 

[Izzy03]

Hello everyone! Its been a rough few days trying to juggle everything and make major life decisions but I am finally feeling at peace.

I had a session with my therapist yesterday and she brought light to the issue that has kept me with him since our marriage went bad. I am NOT afraid of ending up alone, and I am NOT afraid of being divorced. I am afraid of regretting my decision to leave him, afraid I will look back in a few years and miss all the good qualities we have together (I know that sounds naive, but I swear he has some outstanding qualities). I don't want to regret not giving things one last shot. She said that this is what she has observed me sticking to this "loop" for the past 5 months, and she does NOT think the feeling will go away, so I'll have to start trusting my gut instinct. I know that more time away from him will continue to give me clarity. If he decides that he cannot deal with my needing a long separation, he can file for divorce and save me the time and money! In the meantime, I will take all the time I need!

You all are very right, he has had an aggressive temper for about 10 years now, that is not going to change in one month. My therapist reminded me that I was not the problem, but I was the trigger, right now he is doing so well because the trigger (me) is not present.

I am currently staying with a close friend of the family and having a really great time in a good environment. However, I know I can't impose on them much longer. One of my girlfriends is returning to college to make a career change and will need to tighten her budget so we discussed becoming roommates after I beginning working full time. I don't love the idea of having a roommate again and would be able to afford a comfortable lifestyle on my own, but returning to college drained my savings and I would like to get ahead financially again. Besides, I lived alone for 2 years before I got married and it has it lonely moments! This will allow me to continue with my original plans rather than uprooting my life, but I am hoping that living in the same town as my husband will not cause additional problems.

I ordered two of the self help books you guys recommended and will start reading them after I take boards. The two I decided on were "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay", and "Women Who Love Too Much". Also, my first Al-Anon meeting is next Wednesday, and I am looking into domestic abuse support groups in this area.

So there's my decision, and I feel really good about it! I thank you all for continuing to open my eyes when I am too emotionally involved to think logically. I can't believe my marriage has come to all of this, but I think I have made some steps in the right direction.

 

[mary poppins]

That sounds like a great plan! I'm glad to hear that you are taking care of your safety, emotion and financial interests. I hope you find the books and meetings to be insightful.