I''ve lurked for a while, but I really need help now

[Hambo]

Hello PSers,

I''ve been lurking on the forum and website for a while learning about some of the more advanced topics, and now I need help with a purchase that I need to make soon. First, though, I think it might be worth giving a little back story. You all will have to forgive the story, but you won''t understand the context of my current purchase without it. I also apologize for the length of this post.

In the spring of 2007, I purchased a ring from a local retailer, but I purchased the center diamond from Blue Nile. I don''t remember how much it cost, but it was a .52 ct, G, SI1, excellent cut, EX symmetry, and VG polish. It''s a beautiful stone and is probably the sparkliest thing I''ve ever purchased. Before I bought it, I had done a good amount of research, and I felt like if I got an excellent cut, then I could still get a great stone in the G-S1 area and save some money. The e-ring was a designer that she wanted, and it had about 50 to 60 points worth of pave, side, and surprise diamonds. So total carats-wise, she was looking at a little over a carat.

Unfortunately, before I proposed (at this point she didn''t know I had a ring), she decided that she wanted to break up (late spring). I will spare you all the sad, depressing details, and give you the main points. We ended up getting back together (late summer), but at this point she had found out about the ring from her parents, who thought she called it off because she freaked out when I proposed (I had asked for her parent''s blessing in the spring, so they knew).

Up until lately, I have been a little apprehensive about the relationship, but I think I am good to go now. I wanted to upgrade the diamond, and I have a little extra money to spend on it now. I wanted to get a D-IF for all of the symbolic, and none of the practical, reasons. I understand the arguments both ways but I think this is what I want. I wanted a lightly larger stone so that it shows up a little better against the side stones, but it can''t be too much bigger or it won''t fit the mount, which had to be modified from a 1.0 carat size to the .5 carat size. I thought that a 3/4 carat might be the best option (she also initially didn''t like the ones larger than about 3/4 carat). I also kind of want the new diamond as a mental fresh start for me. I''ve been searching again, and I have returned to PS for more research, and I''ve come up on a few stones with which I need help.

1. .72, D-IF, EX, EX, EX, Strong Blue fluoro, 1.3 HCA

2. .70, D-IF, EX, EX, EX, Strong Blue fluoro, 1.0 HCA

3. .84, D-IF, Ex, Ex, Ex, Medium Blue fluoro, Haven''t run HCA yet (waiting on cert), but here''s what I have 61.4/57 6.09x6.06x3.73

The two strong blues are both also designated as H&A. All three are GIA certified. I have gone through some of the threads and there seems to be a back and forth on the fluoro, but it seems that most people that have actually seen the strong blues actually tend to like them a little bit more. From what I''ve read and heard, the blue flouro actually sounds pretty cool. I guess my main concern is potential problems with the value of the strong blues if she were to want to trade them or sell them later. The supplier confirmed that the strong blues don''t have any of the haziness or milkiness or whatever that ruins some strong fluoro diamonds. On the other hand, the reason that I still have the .84 in the running is that I kind of also wanted to reach the numerical .75 threshold from a mental standpoint even though a .72 is still technically considered a 3/4 carat.

Also as a secondary matter, with the H&A''s, she wouldn''t be able to see the pattern unless the stone was loose. Ladies of PS, if you were given an H&A, how would you feel about getting it loose with a scope so that you could see the H&A pattern? After the proposal, the diamond could be set. I know it''s not traditional, but she would get to see the cool H&A''s.

Lastly, you might have noticed this as you read through this post, but I feel like some of my rationale might be inconsistent at times. For example, I want the D-IF, but I am willing to go with the blue fluoro? I can''t explain that. Please help

Thank you all for taking the time to read this, and again, I am sorry for the long post!

 

[Cleo]

Hi Hambo, and welcome!

I''m sorry to hear about the stressful time you''ve had and we would love to help you find the perfect diamond for your future FI.

I understand your reasond for wanting to buy a D-IF diamond, and you have obviously made an informed choice here, which is fair enough.

Regarding the strong blue fluorescence, many PSers find this to be a very cool feature of a diamond, and actually prefer and actively seek fluorescent diamonds.

If you think you might want to change the diamond at a later date I would strongly advise choosing a vendor that has a lifetime upgrade policy. That way, you will be able to get the full price you paid for the stone to offset against a new diamond at any future point. Selling diamonds isn''t a great way to go, as you will only ever get back around 30-50% of what you paid in the first place (if you''re lucky).

In order for us to advise on any of the diamonds you are considering, it would be best if you could post full stats for each: depth, crown angle, pavilion angle, table size etc etc as well as the gradings for cut, symmetry & polish off the lab report. The more info the better!

Also, if you have Idealscope images for each then these are helpful too.

Alternatively, if the diamonds are online then you can just post links to them.

If you do go ahead and get a H&A diamond, I would (personally) still get it mounted. The arrows can still be viewed once set, even if the hearts can''t.

x x x

 

[:)]

You are so very sweet. I hope she appreciates what you are doing!
With regards to your comment about the D-IF with blue fluoro making you feel confused - these used to be the most sought after diamonds (colorless D-E-F diamonds with fluoro). Read a little about Blue Whites (in the true sense, not in the sense of people who used to try to use the term to scam lower colors as higher ones). They are so very beautiful (and a blast to look at with a UV fluoro light!). I can recall a poster mentioning her grandmother was disappointed that the woman did not receive a true ''blue white''.

We will need more info as you receive it on each stone to help you with your selection - carat weight, diameter, girdle, table, depth, pav and crown angles are good to start.

 

[Hambo]

Hi there! Thank you so much for the kind words and the help. I wanted to attach the GIA certs, but I can''t make the file smaller enough. Here is the info for the two stones that I have.

.72 ctw, D, IF, Ex Cut, Ex polish, Ex symmetry, 61.9/55, angles 34.0 and 40.8, 5.73x5.77x3.56

.70 ctw, D, IF, Ex Cut, Ex polish, Ex symmetry, 61.5/55, angles 34.5 and 40.8, 5.74x5.77x3.54

I don''t have the cert yet for the .84 stone, but all of the other information that I have for it is in my above post. I also unfortunately do not have any Idealscope images.

Thanks again! You guys are great!

 

[Cleo]

That''s odd - I got the HCA scores round the other way than you posted them initially..

I get:

HCA of 1 for the 0.72ct stone (Ex/Ex/Ex/Vg)
HCA of 1.3 for the 0.70ct stone (Ex/Ex/Ex/Vg)

There''s almost nothing at all to choose between them based on this information alone, and without the added benefit of Idealscope images at this stage.

The 0.70ct stone looks like it falls in the range for AGS0 as well as GIA Ex, which is pretty cool - the other one''s just on the border. (This doesn''t mean for sure they would or would not get an AGS0 grading though, as the HCA can''t measure light return).

x x x

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome Hambo,

Ditto Cleo and L, either of these look great. Do you have links to the diamonds?

 

[Hambo]

Sorry, I must have switched them when I posted earlier. I unfortunately do not have links to them online. They are on that sheet listing deal from various suppliers (RapNet?). The vendor (DBS Diamonds) did not have them listed on its website but has been helping me with essentially a special order type deal where he''s looking at what the suppliers have.

Cleo, I was also thinking about the .70 from the same standpoint you were -- in that it would also be AGS0. I am supposed to get the cert for the .84 today and will post that up soon. That one is going to run about 2500 more than the two other ones, but like I mentioned it will help me clear the mental .75 threshold, but again, it''s not H&A.

How would I get Idealscope images? Do I just ask the vendor?

Many thanks again to you all!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/19/2008 12:02:08 PM
Author: Hambo
Sorry, I must have switched them when I posted earlier. I unfortunately do not have links to them online. They are on that sheet listing deal from various suppliers (RapNet?). The vendor (DBS Diamonds) did not have them listed on its website but has been helping me with essentially a special order type deal where he''s looking at what the suppliers have.

Cleo, I was also thinking about the .70 from the same standpoint you were -- in that it would also be AGS0. I am supposed to get the cert for the .84 today and will post that up soon. That one is going to run about 2500 more than the two other ones, but like I mentioned it will help me clear the mental .75 threshold, but again, it''s not H&A.

How would I get Idealscope images? Do I just ask the vendor?

Many thanks again to you all!

Yes indeed, some vendors will supply them on request.

 

[Hambo]

Okay, so the vendor with the two strong blues does not have Idealscope stuff to provide me with images.

Also, I got the cert on the .84 mentioned earlier and here''s the rest of the information: 61.4% depth, 57% table, 34° crown angle, 41.2° pavilion angle.

It scored a 3.0 on HCA when I ran the numbers. Thanks again for everyone''s help!

 

[Cleo]

Based on that result I''d pass on the 0.84ct diamond - it''s just not as well cut as the other two.

Do you want to give us an idea of your budget, and we can see if there are any other contenders out there for you?

x x x

 

[Hambo]

That would actually be really helpful! To be honest though, I had pretty much given up on using price as a parameter because finding a triple Ex, D, IF stone in the .70-.85 cw range has been just short of impossible.

I guess I''m currently looking at stones between 8-9k, but I would definitely consider a pricier stone if it was just a rock star (no pun intended

).

 

[Cleo]

I found you a pricey 0.9ct D IF so far....

GIA gives it VG for cut, but the HCA is scoring it at 0.8 and an FIC.

I don''t think it''s really what you''re after, but I thought I''d give you a link to it anyway.

x x x

 

[:)]

$7543 0.7 D IF Strong blue fluoro (for some reason the PS price is listing higher than the Blue Nile website!!) ex/ex/ex
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-ideal-cut-d-color-if-clarity_LD01375504#grading_report

 

[jstarfireb]

I''m not sure if you know that BN does not have an upgrade policy. So you will not be able to trade in the old diamond, and you would be buying the new one for full price. Personally I would stick with the old stone, but I understand that you have reasons to want something new, and although a D/IF wouldn''t be my choice, you have made an informed decision. I really like the last stone that posted...it''s ex/ex/ex/vg on the HCA with a score of 1.3 (TIC range), within both AGS0 and GIA Ex cut, and with strong blue fluor. You should not notice a visual difference between a 0.70 and a 0.75 as well. It''s a good price and seems to meet your criteria. Good luck!

 

[Hambo]

Cleo, , and jstar, thanks for all of the input!

Cleo, the .90 looks like it would be a great stone, but like you noted, not exactly the target. One question though -- what is FIC? I looked through the FAQ abbreviations thread, but I couldn''t find it.

, I am about 99% positive that this stone is the same one I found and posted above. I''m glad that I''m running into the same stones that the experts are!

jstar, thanks for the vote of confidence as I am currently leaning toward that one. I didn''t know about the lack of upgrade policy, and I am not sure how to get around it. Thoughts?

And to all of you guys, it''s awesome how people on this forum are very respectful of other people''s decisions as much as they may not personally mesh with their own views. It''s refreshing!

Thanks again all!

 

[:)]

Date: 8/20/2008 12:03:38 AM
Author: Hambo
Cleo, , and jstar, thanks for all of the input!

Cleo, the .90 looks like it would be a great stone, but like you noted, not exactly the target. One question though -- what is FIC? I looked through the FAQ abbreviations thread, but I couldn''t find it.

, I am about 99% positive that this stone is the same one I found and posted above. I''m glad that I''m running into the same stones that the experts are!

jstar, thanks for the vote of confidence as I am currently leaning toward that one. I didn''t know about the lack of upgrade policy, and I am not sure how to get around it. Thoughts?

And to all of you guys, it''s awesome how people on this forum are very respectful of other people''s decisions as much as they may not personally mesh with their own views. It''s refreshing!

Thanks again all!

Yes I see - the dimensions on one of your earlier stones - excellent pick!
Jstar is right - blue nile has a generous return policy, but definitely no upgrade policy. If you really like the stone (and it does look like it could really be a sweet stone), consider contacting a local vendor to see if they can access that stone''s listing. It appears to be a ''virtual listing'' meaning not in house (usu the only ones they have in house are the signature ideal ones). Some virtual vendors have an exclusive listing c/ Blue Nile, but others can be accessed on one of the virtual stone lists. I suggested a local vendor as you could then take your current setting that you want to use to that vendor to get the stone set locally (if they have the upgrade policy you wish). Alternatively contact GOG or WF or Wink Jones and ask if they can try to access the listing and if they would include the stone in an upgrade policy with them.

 

[Cleo]

You''re very welcome - delighted to help.

That 0.9 is lovely, but wayyyy expensive huh?

FIC stands for Firey Ideal Cut and may be a diamond which displays more fire in certain conditions.

Unless you can find the same diamond with another vendor (possible if it''s a ''virtual'' stone) then you''re stuck with BN''s lack of upgrade policy unfortunately.

x x x

 

[MMT]

I agree I love the stones with some blue fluoro.

 

[Hambo]

Thanks again all for the input.

I think that I found a new contender. I also think it''s going to be this one or the .70 strong blue.

.78 D, IF, Ex cut, Ex polish, Ex symmetry, H&A inscription, 5.96x5.99x3.63, 60.8% depth, 58% table, 34° crown angle, 41° pavilion angle

When I run the numbers through HCA, I get a 1.5 Excellent (Ex, Ex, vg, vg). Also this one has NO fluoro, and I was starting to like them quite a bit.

This one is around 8.5k while the .70 is around 7.5k. Ok, so I see this one as passing the mental .75 threshold, but scoring a vg on scintillation while the .70 scores an ex/ex/ex/vg. Also, the .70 has the blue fluoro. Both are H&A.

Thoughts?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/20/2008 2:32:39 PM
Author: Hambo
Thanks again all for the input.

I think that I found a new contender. I also think it''s going to be this one or the .70 strong blue.

.78 D, IF, Ex cut, Ex polish, Ex symmetry, H&A inscription, 5.96x5.99x3.63, 60.8% depth, 58% table, 34° crown angle, 41° pavilion angle

When I run the numbers through HCA, I get a 1.5 Excellent (Ex, Ex, vg, vg). Also this one has NO fluoro, and I was starting to like them quite a bit.

This one is around 8.5k while the .70 is around 7.5k. Ok, so I see this one as passing the mental .75 threshold, but scoring a vg on scintillation while the .70 scores an ex/ex/ex/vg. Also, the .70 has the blue fluoro. Both are H&A.

Thoughts?

I would favour the .70 personally, but the .78 could still be a good pick. Also don''t worry about the VG for scintillation, the HCA can''t actually see the diamond and is used for rejection, not selection, and with well cut stones such as these, there will be scintillation galore, so no need to worry.

 

[Hambo]

Thanks for clarifying the HCA scores. Sorry for the late reply -- I lost internet service at my apt last night. This is a tough call, but I think I''m leaning toward the .70 one. I don''t know yet -- I think I''ll let my mind chew on it for a bit.