It's all going horribly wrong!

[Gypsy]

Thanks Laila. Yes, it's odd that they used a diamond-cut chain. They have not replied at all about the chain issue though, only the spacing issue, so I think they won't want to fix it. And custom is always non-returnable.

I'm using big font and bold on purpose to get your attention. Do I have it? Good.

YOU ARE WRONG. CUSTOM IS NOT ALWAYS NON-RETURNABLE. That is FALSE. Custom is non-returnable when the vendor provides you with exactly what you asked for and you change your mind or similar. CUSTOM IS RETURNABLE when there is a quality issue or IF THEY DON'T FOLLOW YOUR DIRECTIONS. Period. There is NO PS vendor that will EVER make you keep a piece that they screwed up like this on (except Leon). Not just because they are better than that and they want their customers happy (which is the case for most of them, period, which is why they are PS vendors, but there are exceptions like Leon running about) BUT also because they don't want the negative publicity on here.

So calm the heck down. The WORST scenario in this situation is that you get a refund. That's it. That's the worst thing that can happen. Got it? The fires of hell are not going to rise up and consume you or your money.

NOW, what you do tomorrow (instead of indulging in the drama of it all):

GET WF on the phone ask for Bryan (he's a really nice guy and a VP there and he will take care of you). Tell him that you are UPSET (for the love of god though, calm the hysteria down) and that you want the spacing issue fixed and that you DO NOT want that chain. You want a cable chain, not shiny. AND THEN show him your diagram and tell him you expect it to be done and DONE RIGHT this time or you want a refund if they can't do what you CONTRACTED for them to do.

Honestly, you don't even need to be this firm with Bryan, he's a great guy. But since you are upset I thought I'd give you a nice firm script.



Oy. I have NEVER had to do that before. And never want to again. Scary thing is... that's just the large font. You should have seen what the huge looked like.

 

[Smith1940]

Hey Enerchi! Thanks for checking in. I got an email and they agreed the chain wasn't right, and would follow it up with the supplier. They said that they think the supplier possibly doesn't do the ordinary cable chains in 14k. So I said I would happily pay for an 18k one if it meant that the necklace would be right. Haven't heard back yet.

It's been two days about the chain now and still no resolution - I would have thought it'd be a simple fix.

I mean, don't these people realise that they are RUINING MY LIFE???? I don't think I can go to work until this is fixed. Then I'll need a mini-break to recover.

 

[slg47]

Hey Enerchi! Thanks for checking in. I got an email and they agreed the chain wasn't right, and would follow it up with the supplier. They said that they think the supplier possibly doesn't do the ordinary cable chains in 14k. So I said I would happily pay for an 18k one if it meant that the necklace would be right. Haven't heard back yet.

It's been two days about the chain now and still no resolution - I would have thought it'd be a simple fix.

I mean, don't these people realise that they are RUINING MY LIFE???? I don't think I can go to work until this is fixed. Then I'll need a mini-break to recover.

you're just being silly...right??

 

[Smith1940]

Hey Enerchi! Thanks for checking in. I got an email and they agreed the chain wasn't right, and would follow it up with the supplier. They said that they think the supplier possibly doesn't do the ordinary cable chains in 14k. So I said I would happily pay for an 18k one if it meant that the necklace would be right. Haven't heard back yet.

It's been two days about the chain now and still no resolution - I would have thought it'd be a simple fix.

I mean, don't these people realise that they are RUINING MY LIFE???? I don't think I can go to work until this is fixed. Then I'll need a mini-break to recover.

you're just being silly...right??

No, I'm totally serious. I mean, I'm going to need spa treatments and everything. As well as cute cabana boys!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

To all vendors...this is a good example why prompt email replies are SO important. Frustration builds up when there is a problem, and this is a case where all the fears could have been quickly dispelled. And email is SO much more time efficient than having to call when there is a question (takes a lot less time than most phone conversations do). But people need a reply within a few hours at most as long as it isn't the last work hour of the day. Then I can see the reply arriving the next morning. I emailed both Cartier and Tiffany yesterday to ask a question. I got an automated reply from both immediately, which I really don't care about other than I could be sure my email was received. But both sent me answers to my questions within a few hours, which was quite impressive considering the size of those companies.

Smith...I am not exactly understanding the reply. Is the sapphire DBY not custom made in-house? It sounds like it was ordered from another source.

 

[Missy]

Hey Enerchi! Thanks for checking in. I got an email and they agreed the chain wasn't right, and would follow it up with the supplier. They said that they think the supplier possibly doesn't do the ordinary cable chains in 14k. So I said I would happily pay for an 18k one if it meant that the necklace would be right. Haven't heard back yet.

It's been two days about the chain now and still no resolution - I would have thought it'd be a simple fix.

I mean, don't these people realise that they are RUINING MY LIFE???? I don't think I can go to work until this is fixed. Then I'll need a mini-break to recover.

you're just being silly...right??

No, I'm totally serious. I mean, I'm going to need spa treatments and everything. As well as cute cabana boys!

Can I get in on that?!

 

[Smith1940]

Hey Enerchi! Thanks for checking in. I got an email and they agreed the chain wasn't right, and would follow it up with the supplier. They said that they think the supplier possibly doesn't do the ordinary cable chains in 14k. So I said I would happily pay for an 18k one if it meant that the necklace would be right. Haven't heard back yet.

It's been two days about the chain now and still no resolution - I would have thought it'd be a simple fix.

I mean, don't these people realise that they are RUINING MY LIFE???? I don't think I can go to work until this is fixed. Then I'll need a mini-break to recover.

you're just being silly...right??

No, I'm totally serious. I mean, I'm going to need spa treatments and everything. As well as cute cabana boys!

Can I get in on that?!

Yes, you can get in on that! I'll share 'em with you!

 

[Smith1940]

To all vendors...this is a good example why prompt email replies are SO important. Frustration builds up when there is a problem, and this is a case where all the fears could have been quickly dispelled. And email is SO much more time efficient than having to call when there is a question (takes a lot less time than most phone conversations do). But people need a reply within a few hours at most as long as it isn't the last work hour of the day. Then I can see the reply arriving the next morning. I emailed both Cartier and Tiffany yesterday to ask a question. I got an automated reply from both immediately, which I really don't care about other than I could be sure my email was received. But both sent me answers to my questions within a few hours, which was quite impressive considering the size of those companies.

Smith...I am not exactly understanding the reply. Is the sapphire DBY not custom made in-house? It sounds like it was ordered from another source.

DiamondSeeker: I don't know what their process is with custom. I have no idea if it's made in-house or if they subcontract it to an outside supplier, or if suppliers just supply various parts, like this chain. I mean, I suppose it makes sense that they would buy in chains instead of making their own chains from scratch, which wouldn't be worth the effort when you can get chains wholsesale supply if you are a jewellery business. I assume they sourced the stones, handmade the bezels and put the bezels on the chain. Anyway, I ordered this custom piece, and apparently now there is this problem with the chain due to their "supplier" - that's what they said. But for a good jeweller, I'm amazed that they just gave me a totally different chain to what I ordered. I'm thinking, "Really? You couldn't find a cable chain?" Anyway, I'm working with them to get the necklace right, as the stones and bezels do look very good.

About the emails, yes, I couldn't agree more. Communication hasn't been very good. When I initially sent them my diagrams and measurements, they didn't even respond. I had to call and check that they had received the materials and put them in my file. Now, this simple chain issue is on its third day. All I want is an ordinary cable chain, not the moon on a stick!

 

[Smith1940]

Diamondseeker - the company has been in touch saying they've found a 1.5mm cable chain. You seem to know what you'er talking about with jewellery - is 1.5mm delicate enough for DBTY? Is that a thick size, or thin? It seems quite thick for a delicate chain, but in the photo they sent me (which isn't a good one) the chain looks thin and delicate. I'm confused. I'm not a jewellery expert, just a consumer, and I just wonder why I'm having to make all these decisions about a product that I, personally, know nothing about! They are the experts! Breathe...

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Hi Smith,
First of all, I'm really sorry our errors have caused your experience to be less than "brilliant". Alot less it appears. I have been talking to our folks in production and customer service this morning and I have an understanding of the errors that were made on our end, despite the detailed instructions that you provided.

I know that Vera is in touch with you to get everything right. And I have confidence that she will do a good job in working this out for you. Knowing "V" she will put a sweetener in at the end to try to make you feel a little better about the delay and frustration.

I will stay involved with our team here until we have resolved the situation to your satisfaction. Like Gypsy suggested, please contact me personally if you need anything. We are all here to serve you and we really DO want nothing more than for you to be delighted with the end product. We have let you down during the process, but will do our utmost to make the end result come out right.

Sincerely,
Bryan

 

[Laila619]

Hey Enerchi! Thanks for checking in. I got an email and they agreed the chain wasn't right, and would follow it up with the supplier. They said that they think the supplier possibly doesn't do the ordinary cable chains in 14k. So I said I would happily pay for an 18k one if it meant that the necklace would be right. Haven't heard back yet.

It's been two days about the chain now and still no resolution - I would have thought it'd be a simple fix.

I mean, don't these people realise that they are RUINING MY LIFE???? I don't think I can go to work until this is fixed. Then I'll need a mini-break to recover.

you're just being silly...right??

No, I'm totally serious. I mean, I'm going to need spa treatments and everything. As well as cute cabana boys!

Can I get in on that?!

Yes, you can get in on that! I'll share 'em with you!

And me too! Sounds heavenly.

Hang in there, Smith. Vera is wonderful, she will get this sorted out.

 

[Smith1940]

Thanks Bryan. As I said, the stones and bezels look really nice - just need the right spacing and a delicate cable chain.

 

[Ella]

Please keep it civil everyone.

 

[Smith1940]

OK, so I said I didn't know what a 1.5mm chain looks like and that maybe I could just pay extra to have the 18k cable chain featured on the website (as opposed to the 14k that I had ordered) and that this would be OK because I just wanted it to be right. The resolution is that they will give me the 18k chain on the website for no extra charge. Now, once the spacing gets fixed, we'll be in business.

 

[FrekeChild]

1.5mm cable chain on the longest one. The others are super delicate and I'm always afraid that I'm going to yank a little too hard and they will break. Diamonds are about 4mm.

I got it from Blue Nile and had my jeweler add the collette set diamond.

ETA: http://www.bluenile.com/white-gold-chain_20799

 

[Smith1940]

Ooooh, Frekechild, what lovely necklaces! Thanks for photographing them! Where did you get the yellow gold one? Looks like my Tiffany 0.12 point solitaire. Goodness, there's quite a lot of difference between the 1.5mm and the 1mm chains. I've confirmed that my other DBTY necklaces are all 1mm too. I hear you on the delicacy, but I love small delicate jewellery so 1.5mm would be too thick for me, judging by the photo. It's super-helpful. Thanks!

 

[FrekeChild]

Ooooh, Frekechild, what lovely necklaces! Thanks for photographing them! Where did you get the yellow gold one? Looks like my Tiffany 0.12 point solitaire. Goodness, there's quite a lot of difference between the 1.5mm and the 1mm chains. I've confirmed that my other DBTY necklaces are all 1mm too. I hear you on the delicacy, but I love small delicate jewellery so 1.5mm would be too thick for me, judging by the photo. It's super-helpful. Thanks!

The yellow gold originally belonged to D & T, then to Athenaworth and now it's mine. I don't know anything about the actual jewelry work itself!

As for the longer two, the diamonds were purchased as a pair of earrings from Fortekitty, the larger chain came from Blue Nile, and the stone setting as well as the 16.5 inch chain were from Daniel M on etsy. Everything is 14kt.

http://www.etsy.com/shop/danielmjewelry?ref=pr_shop_more
http://www.etsy.com/transaction/76615447

I intentionally wanted all three necklaces to have very different looks so I could mix and match depending on my mood, so metal color, chain width, setting style were all different. The only thing they have in common would be the 4ish mm antique cut diamonds!

Glad the picture was of some help! I would also see what they can do for you in 18kt instead of the 14kt.

 

[Smith1940]

They look lovely layered as in the pic! They're all beautiful. Re. the chain, they did offer me the 18k white gold chain, which I said would be fine but I have asked to know the width. It's meant to be a very delicate necklace and I think 1.5mm will be too thick for me. All my others are 1mm and I wouldn't want them any thicker. Your pic helped - mine are all like your first two, and the longest one would definitely be too thick for me.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I do think it is worth remembering, not only you Smith but others reading this too, that even in custom work if the product is not what you asked for, then you get a refund. Seems like this is going in the right direction now. Hopefully it is resolved soon.

 

[Smith1940]

Thanks, Dreamer D. Initially I thought it was non-returnable because that's usually the deal with custom.

So, Vera just called to touch base and let me know that the stock 18k WG chain is indeed 1mm. Yay! So we have a 1mm cable chain, and together with the right spacing, we should be a-go-go! ETA is April 23.

 

[yssie]

I do think it is worth remembering, not only you Smith but others reading this too, that even in custom work if the product is not what you asked for, then you get a refund. Seems like this is going in the right direction now. Hopefully it is resolved soon.

Not always.
Be SURE to EXPLICITLY discuss with your vendor BEFORE going ahead with the purchase. Just because a vendor says "no refunds on custom work" doesn't mean you can't come to some other mutually acceptable agreement...and just because recourse (refund, redo, etc.) sounds reasonable if things don't go as planned doesn't mean the jeweller will agree unless you've discussed it beforehand.



Glad things are looking up Smith!!

 

[orbaya]

Thanks, Dreamer D. Initially I thought it was non-returnable because that's usually the deal with custom.

So, Vera just called to touch base and let me know that the stock 18k WG chain is indeed 1mm. Yay! So we have a 1mm cable chain, and together with the right spacing, we should be a-go-go! ETA is April 23.

Smith -

Thank you for starting this thread! I am having WF make me a DBTY with 10 stones that are .15ct each, that is 14kt gold. Because of this thread, I learned of the chain style differences between the karats of gold! I emailed WF, and Vera just called me as well and told me that the cable chain is not available in 14kt gold. WF is going to be switching the chains to the 18kt one for me.

After the call, Vera emailed me and in my response I suggested that WF tell their customers at the time of ordering that maybe they could explain the chain differences if the piece was going to be made of 14kt. You and I both thought we would be getting the exact chain that is on their website, as I'm sure anyone would.

My necklace was supposed to ship today, but now I have to wait another week. It sounds like we are on very similar timelines!

 

[Enerchi]

CABANA BOY ALERT!!!! I wanna come to the cabana party, too

I'm so glad that Bryan and Vera are going to resolve this perfectly for you! Yippee! that is such a relief. Just sounds like a bit more communication helped ease the confusion and now - all is on the mend. I'm glad it worked out for you - can't wait till April 23 to see the photos.

oh - will that be one of your days off on your mini break? Will you be done at the spa by then, or will they deliver to your massage table directly?

 

[Gypsy]

I do think it is worth remembering, not only you Smith but others reading this too, that even in custom work if the product is not what you asked for, then you get a refund. Seems like this is going in the right direction now. Hopefully it is resolved soon.

Not always.
Be SURE to EXPLICITLY discuss with your vendor BEFORE going ahead with the purchase. Just because a vendor says "no refunds on custom work" doesn't mean you can't come to some other mutually acceptable agreement...and just because recourse (refund, redo, etc.) sounds reasonable if things don't go as planned doesn't mean the jeweller will agree unless you've discussed it beforehand.



Glad things are looking up Smith!!

Yes, pretty much always in the US with the fact pattern in this thread. It's basic contract law. If you contract for something and you don't get what you contracted for especially in the key elements, the contract is broken and you don't have to pay or you are entitled to a refund. You may have to go to court to get it, true, and you might need an appraiser to back you up (not in this case, but in other cases where the difference between what you ordered and what you got is not so obvious to a non-jeweler) but the law will pretty much be on your side as long as your expectations are reasonable for the industry's standards. So that means that expecting something to be perfect with a 30x loupe might not get you a refund on an otherwise lovely piece in most cases (reasonableness), but it also means that even then, if you have it in writing that they promised 30x loupe perfection, then you might win there too (because the jeweler by agreeing to it might have waived the reasonableness of that and made it a key element).

But if you contract for a 5 stone necklace with specific spacing and the spacing is key, and the spacing is what they don't deliver on, then you have no contract and no obligation to pay and you get a refund. If you contract for a necklace like this based on a picture of it with a specific chain and the chain is integral to the design and a key element and they change the chain on you and don't tell you... same result since in this specific case the chain style is key and integral to the piece.

Also, I'm shocked Leon hasn't been sued yet. Just as an aside.

 

[Laila619]

Also, I'm shocked Leon hasn't been sued yet. Just as an aside.

Me too! But going to court is expensive when you add in all the fees. And then you don't even have a guarantee that you'll win.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Because this thread has generated some worthwhile comments and advice about refunds on custom work by Gypsy and others, I thought I would give you a little more background on the Whiteflash policy.

It really all comes down to accountability. As consumers I think we all just want businesses to own up when they have screwed up! At Whiteflash we feel strongly that our customers have every right to receive what they ordered- not only in terms of the design and materials but the quality of the workmanship as well. We certainly do not want to leave a customer feeling “stuck” with something that was not what they ordered. That’s bad karma and bad business.

Having said that, custom jewelry design and manufacturing is an area that has great potential for misunderstandings. (In the case in this thread the problem was caused entirely on our part by basic internal miscommunication). But many times the customer has something in mind that may turn out differently than expected, even if communication has been very good and the jeweler has executed the assignment well. In those cases, there is a mutual problem in that the customer is not satisfied and the merchant has no clear path to recoup costs. This is a big reason why not every jewelry company does custom work!

With regular stock items, a return policy is standard and if the item is not exactly what the customer envisioned, it can be sent back for refund or exchange and the jeweler can put it back in stock and sell it to another customer. A unique, custom or individually customized item does not offer the same flexibility.

So, most companies (Whiteflash included) determine that they need a different policy with regard to custom so that customers are aware of possible pitfalls and aware of their responsibilities. However, that does not give the jeweler license to deliver faulty product! Really, the “no-refunds” policy is in place to underscore the commitment that the customer is making to the process. If they are at all unsure that they will like the finished product they are likely to think twice or three times before going the custom route.

Whiteflash policies are intended to be guidelines that cover 95% of cases. We always have to allow some flexibility so that exceptional cases can be brought to mutually satisfactory resolutions. We don’t want to be imprisoned in a rigid box of our own making with that “whatever is not forbidden is mandatory” kind of thinking.

So I agree with the advice given here. Just because you go the custom route under a “no refunds” policy, you should never feel you have no recourse if you sincerely feel you have been wronged. Most vendors will work with you even if they have to bend their published policies to accommodate.

The “no refunds” rule sort of reminds me of the process of going to the priest or rabbi before marriage. They are not there to keep you from getting married, just to make sure you understand the commitment you are about to make!

 

[Smith1940]

All very sensibly and clearly put, Bryan.

Thanks for your knowledgeable input about US consumer law too, Gypsy. Do you work in the law profession?

Anyway, I'm British so I wouldn't know anything about US consumer law. I can't see myself taking anyone to court over a necklace, anyhoo!

Very good points in Bryan's post about not every company being comfortable with custom. When you add in the Internet factor, too, custom online work is a risk for all the parties in a transaction but, given the huge potential savings over B&M stores, it's a well-calculated risk.

 

[Smith1940]

CABANA BOY ALERT!!!! I wanna come to the cabana party, too

I'm so glad that Bryan and Vera are going to resolve this perfectly for you! Yippee! that is such a relief. Just sounds like a bit more communication helped ease the confusion and now - all is on the mend. I'm glad it worked out for you - can't wait till April 23 to see the photos.

oh - will that be one of your days off on your mini break? Will you be done at the spa by then, or will they deliver to your massage table directly?

Enerchi, I am not sharing my cabana boy with you! You'll just have to snare your own!

I need to go and ice my back. After my dental surgery I put my back out, sleeping on one side in order not to disturb the gum graft. Ice on my face, ice on my back...You know, if I had an Indian name, it would be Sits With Ice Packs!

 

[Smith1940]

Thanks, Dreamer D. Initially I thought it was non-returnable because that's usually the deal with custom.

So, Vera just called to touch base and let me know that the stock 18k WG chain is indeed 1mm. Yay! So we have a 1mm cable chain, and together with the right spacing, we should be a-go-go! ETA is April 23.

Smith -

Thank you for starting this thread! I am having WF make me a DBTY with 10 stones that are .15ct each, that is 14kt gold. Because of this thread, I learned of the chain style differences between the karats of gold! I emailed WF, and Vera just called me as well and told me that the cable chain is not available in 14kt gold. WF is going to be switching the chains to the 18kt one for me.

After the call, Vera emailed me and in my response I suggested that WF tell their customers at the time of ordering that maybe they could explain the chain differences if the piece was going to be made of 14kt. You and I both thought we would be getting the exact chain that is on their website, as I'm sure anyone would.

My necklace was supposed to ship today, but now I have to wait another week. It sounds like we are on very similar timelines!

Orbaya - who on earth would have thought there are so many different chain widths and that half a millimetre can make such a difference! In Frekechild's photos, the longest one looks so much wider. I mean, I thought a chain was a chain was a chain, you know??

Ten diamonds of 0.15 each - lucky, lucky you! My other DBTY in rose gold is only going to be five stones of 0.10 each - and that was severely strecthing the budget - so I can't WAIT to see yours! Make sure you post lots of neck shots. That's the best way to see the scale, it always seems to me.

 

[Smith1940]

Look how nice the stones and bezels are!