ISIS Killing of a priest in France

[redwood66]

Horrible.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/26/europe/france-normandy-church-hostage/index.html

 

[Rockinruby]

I hadn't seen this until now. You are right. It is truly a horrible thing especially in a place of worship.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It is horrific. I am wondering how much longer the people are going to tolerate these attacks that are coming more frequently. Glad I spent 8 weeks in France when I was young, because I surely wouldn't even consider it today.

 

[tyty333]

So very sad .

 

[Tekate]

Horrible.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/26/europe/france-normandy-church-hostage/index.html

A tragedy, that anyone is killed by radical Daesh killers. Whether radicalized or from the middle east this should be stopped! The goal of Daesh is to have the final war between christians and muslims, it's written somewhere... depends on if you are Sunni or Shiite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France

France has a long history of muslims and have gotten along very well in the past. Time to eradicate Daesh. Whether by us, France, Germany or by their own people.

 

[kenny]

The killing of any person is equally appalling ... regardless of what job they have.

... but I DO think it's extra super duper revolting when someone in one religion kills someone, apparently because they are a member of/leader in a competing religion.



... but over time this victim's religion has certainly killed many people for not getting with their program.



Someday we'll leave religions behind.

 

[missy]

The killing of any person is equally appalling ... regardless of what job they have.

... but I DO think it's extra super duper revolting when someone in one religion kills someone, apparently because they are a member of/leader in a competing religion.



... but over time this victim's religion has certainly killed many people for not getting with their program.



Someday we'll leave religions behind.

Completely agree that the killing of any person is reprehensible and equally horrible.

However, the Scott Atran book Karen recommended to us goes into this issue and has some surprising (to me) conclusions. Atran said that religion is not the major cause of killing and terrorist attacks like many people think.

I don't know if I agree completely with Scott Atran's conclusions about religion not playing a major role and I think over the course of history religion has been a major cause of much murder and mayhem and misery. However Atran has come to the conclusion (after doing years of research and fieldwork interviewing terrorists) that religion and its doctrines, in particular Islam, play at best a minimal role in terrorism.

 

[AGBF]

I don't know if I agree completely with Scott Atran's conclusions about religion not playing a major role and I think over the course of history religion has been a major cause of much murder and mayhem and misery. However Atran has come to the conclusion (after doing years of research and fieldwork interviewing terrorists) that religion and its doctrines, in particular Islam, play at best a minimal role in terrorism.

I remain in touch with a former psychotherapy client. He called me yesterday morning to say "hello". He currently works for AAA. He has a lot of insight into anger and he was discussing how he handles his own on his job and and ways in which he has seen clients whose cars he has to tow act out their anger in dangerous ways on the road. At the end of our phone call I asked if he had seen Ted Cruz hit Heidi Cruz in the face with his elbow after he had suffered an election defeat. He didn't remember seeing that, but we have often discussed Freud's belief that subconscious desires drive accidents. He had come to realize that he sometimes had angry thoughts just before he had accidents himself and, when he was a landscaper we had made plans that he not use his chainsaw when he was angry.

Then he mentioned terrorism and ISIS and said that people didn't have a clue about what was driving them. I think he really put his finger on the larger picture.

I am not saying that we cannot find solutions specific to specific geographic areas or that addressing certain societal problems will not help to reduce mass shootings or terrorism. But the underlying problem is that people are driven to want things and they have id drives (in Freudian terms) pushing them to grab what they want and to attack others. Where is the superego?

AGBF

 

[ksinger]

The killing of any person is equally appalling ... regardless of what job they have.

... but I DO think it's extra super duper revolting when someone in one religion kills someone, apparently because they are a member of/leader in a competing religion.



... but over time this victim's religion has certainly killed many people for not getting with their program.



Someday we'll leave religions behind.

Completely agree that the killing of any person is reprehensible and equally horrible.

However, the Scott Atran book Karen recommended to us goes into this issue and has some surprising (to me) conclusions. Atran said that religion is not the major cause of killing and terrorist attacks like many people think.

I don't know if I agree completely with Scott Atran's conclusions about religion not playing a major role and I think over the course of history religion has been a major cause of much murder and mayhem and misery. However Atran has come to the conclusion (after doing years of research and fieldwork interviewing terrorists) that religion and its doctrines, in particular Islam, play at best a minimal role in terrorism.

This is the way I see religion in all of this Missy.

First, ISIS is a different strain of terrorism than what we've seen up to now.

The "sacred values" Atran talks about do not have to be religious in nature, although they often are. And religion is more often a common language and justification or boost, than the actual root cause.

IMO, in the west, it seems that we have, for the most part, stopped emphasizing and justifying the violent aspects of Christianity - and they most certainly ARE there - while in Islam, that is not the case.

 

[missy]

The killing of any person is equally appalling ... regardless of what job they have.

... but I DO think it's extra super duper revolting when someone in one religion kills someone, apparently because they are a member of/leader in a competing religion.



... but over time this victim's religion has certainly killed many people for not getting with their program.



Someday we'll leave religions behind.

Completely agree that the killing of any person is reprehensible and equally horrible.

However, the Scott Atran book Karen recommended to us goes into this issue and has some surprising (to me) conclusions. Atran said that religion is not the major cause of killing and terrorist attacks like many people think.

I don't know if I agree completely with Scott Atran's conclusions about religion not playing a major role and I think over the course of history religion has been a major cause of much murder and mayhem and misery. However Atran has come to the conclusion (after doing years of research and fieldwork interviewing terrorists) that religion and its doctrines, in particular Islam, play at best a minimal role in terrorism.

This is the way I see religion in all of this Missy.

First, ISIS is a different strain of terrorism than what we've seen up to now.

The "sacred values" Atran talks about do not have to be religious in nature, although they often are. And religion is more often a common language and justification or boost, than the actual root cause.

IMO, in the west, it seems that we have, for the most part, stopped emphasizing and justifying the violent aspects of Christianity - and they most certainly ARE there - while in Islam, that is not the case.

Hi Karen, yes that makes sense. It is something they have in common or make in common and use that to strengthen their bonds (real and imagined) and not the actual cause. If they did not have religion they would find other things in common to use for their cause no doubt. Such a complex issue with much to think about.

If history could be rewritten/redone without religion would we still have the same violence all over the world and in the Middle East that we have today? Would things still be the same if no religion existed at all?