ISEE2

[jksprincess]

Can someone explain what exactly ISEE2 is? My jeweler explained it as a mechanism to look at a diamond yet I thought it was a type of specific diamond.

Also, would you think that Scott Kay would have a better selection of platinum settings or Verragio?

 

[Regular Guy]

Here''s some info on it from the GOG website.

 

[Rhino]

Hrm... I see some graphics that aren''t loading and some updates that need to be done there. If ya have any questions jks (or Ira) I''ll keep a tab on this thread and do my best to answer for ya. They recently added metrics for dynamic fire and dynamic contrast which I need to address on that page too.

Peace,

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 8/11/2006 6:40:44 PM
Author: Rhino
They recently added metrics for dynamic fire and dynamic contrast which I need to address on that page too.

Peace,

Unrelated...I think not!

 

[Rhino]

Date: 8/11/2006 6:53:32 PM
Author: Regular Guy

Date: 8/11/2006 6:40:44 PM
Author: Rhino
They recently added metrics for dynamic fire and dynamic contrast which I need to address on that page too.

Peace,

Unrelated...I think not!

LMAO... Ira I didn''t get it at first then I read my words again.

At the beginning of this year they took the "scintillation" metric (which was generally shown in the center column) and when you put the mouse over that column it seperates into 2 individual columns showing how the whole scintillation metric is attained in their results now, which they break down into "dynamic contrast" and "dynamic fire". Yes... quite the dynamic duo.

(haha... you know I''m a Batman fan too don''t ya

). What''s cool is when you hold the mouse button down over the individual columns it shows all the captured images constituting the movement of white light (in dynamic contrast) and holding the mouse on the other column all the images demonstrating the movement of fire (dynamic fire) that constitute their scintillation reading. Between appointments tomorrow I''ll see if I can post some graphics that show it if you''d like.

Kind regards,

 

[diamondseeker2006]

In regard to your question about Scott Kay and Verragio, they are just two different designers. Both have a nice selection but the styles are different and one may appeal to you more than the other.

 

[oldminer]

It seems the ISEE2 is engineered to prefer the ISEE2 cut of diamonds sold by the same company that makes the device. It does have some good features anyway, but it is a biased product in some respects. It is worth a look and their diamonds are nicely cut.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/12/2006 10:57:44 AM
Author: oldminer
It seems the ISEE2 is engineered to prefer the ISEE2 cut of diamonds sold by the same company that makes the device. It does have some good features anyway, but it is a biased product in some respects. It is worth a look and their diamonds are nicely cut.

Whats interesting is ISEE2 has changed the target they cut too and likely the cutters that cut them and they still do very very well on the machine as do the gog specials and other tight stones.
The ISEE2 machine rewards tight stones and downgrades quickly those with wide ranging pavilion angles.
Which makes sence when you consider how the arrows are formed and they are grading face up contrast patterns.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 8/12/2006 10:57:44 AM
Author: oldminer
It seems the ISEE2 is engineered to prefer the ISEE2 cut of diamonds sold by the same company that makes the device. It does have some good features anyway, but it is a biased product in some respects. It is worth a look and their diamonds are nicely cut.

Hi Dave,

Those were precisely my thoughts when going to hear their presentation for the first time which is why I brought a suite of diamonds of various cut qualities along for the ride. The fact that a cutting factory was featuring it had my guard up big time. Like any technology it has its limitations but I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt it is not cut to favor Isee2 diamonds perse. My top stone that I brought with me that day beat out the Isee2 stone.

(although by a minutae). They use the device as a guide to cut their stones but any superior crafted diamond with top notch optics will do fine on it. In fact it does offer a more critical exam in some arena's that I've not seen in any other technology. A few of those being optical symmetry, dynammic contrast & dynamic fire.

Back a couple of years ago it was using this technology that caused us to discover a threshold angle of 40.6 degrees when combined with certain other proportions (that generally fit into the then ideal range) that would cause a slight decrease in optics that we were able to observe. When GIA released thier system I found their studies corellated with my own in this regards and there are certain proportion combinations that do not make Ex based on thier observation testing where 40.6 is a threshold angle. I thought that was interesting.

It might interest you to know that the stones I've tested on the Imagem that maxed it out are the same stones that consistently get 9.5+ (and often 9. on the Isee2 so there are corellations between the 2.

Peace,

 

[oldminer]

I expect that diamond near the top of perfomance will get near top grades as the technologies are similar between ISEE2 and ImaGem. Eventually the market and science will sort out the devices or models which prosper and gain credence.

 

[whatmeworry]

Rhino,

Is it your opinion that the 40.6 threshold to get a GIA Excellent cut is primarily based on their observation testing? I ask this because I see no reason for this threshold based on their brilliance and fire computer studies and given the generally wide range allowed to get a GIA Excellent

A few days ago we had a poster ask about a 40.4 pav angle diamond that has a GIA Excellent cut on the grading report, yet if you put in the exact numbers into Facetware it only gets a VG score.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/to-much-education-frustrated-and-at-a-lose-help.49235/

 

[Serg]

Date: 8/13/2006 2:51:05 PM
Author: whatmeworry
Rhino,

Is it your opinion that the 40.6 threshold to get a GIA Excellent cut is primarily based on their observation testing? I ask this because I see no reason for this threshold based on their brilliance and fire computer studies and given the generally wide range allowed to get a GIA Excellent

A few days ago we had a poster ask about a 40.4 pav angle diamond that has a GIA Excellent cut on the grading report, yet if you put in the exact numbers into Facetware it only gets a VG score.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/to-much-education-frustrated-and-at-a-lose-help.49235/

Very interesting. Thanks.
What and Where is real GIA cut grading system?

 

[allygirl]

ISEE2---

There have been m any responses, but many much more technical than I was looking for.

My real thought about this is ....the jeweler explained it as more of a tool to look at the diamond. Yet, I feel that people on these boards are referrring to the diamonds themselves as the ISEE2.

Anyone want to clarify that for me? THANKS!

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 8/14/2006 11:22:13 AM
Author: allygirl
ISEE2---

There have been m any responses, but many much more technical than I was looking for.

My real thought about this is ....the jeweler explained it as more of a tool to look at the diamond. Yet, I feel that people on these boards are referrring to the diamonds themselves as the ISEE2.

Anyone want to clarify that for me? THANKS!

The company that cuts the diamonds that are branded ISEE2 also developed a machine that would assign gradings, but the machine is only made available to their diamond customers, and is not available to labs or appraisers.

As far as the ISEE2 branded diamonds are concerned, the ones I''ve seen are exceptionally nice.

As far as the grading machine - I rely more on the AGS PGS software and the BScope to ascertain the light return, and of course my eyes, as the ISEE2 company would not supply the machine to me unless I would buy diamonds from them on a continuing basis. So I can''t comment on how accurate the machine is.

So hope that answers your question.

Rockdoc

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 8/14/2006 12:53:18 AM
Author: Serg

Very interesting. Thanks.
What and Where is real GIA cut grading system?

Good question Serg......

A lot of us are wondering that too !

Regards,

Rockdoc

 

[Rhino]

Hi whatmeworry,

Sorry for the slight delay in my response.

Date: 8/13/2006 2:51:05 PM
Author: whatmeworry
Rhino,

Is it your opinion that the 40.6 threshold to get a GIA Excellent cut is primarily based on their observation testing?

Yes and only with certain angle combo''s coupled with certain total depths.

I ask this because I see no reason for this threshold based on their brilliance and fire computer studies and given the generally wide range allowed to get a GIA Excellent

I understand. Just curious ... which brilliance and fire computer study are you referring to? When I first heard of GIA''s allowance for certain steep/deep combinations my hair stood up.

Over time I had become so accustomed to not even considering any kind of steep/deep combination and you''ll generally not find them amongst our inventory (with the exception of some estate stones) but the GIA Ex steep/deeps we''ve been able to acquire have been just fine and the "ring of death" (leakage that exists under the table) was only visible in a critical exam (ASET/DiamXray/IdealScope) and not visible with the human eyes.

To confirm my own finding I solicited the opinions of 30 consumers in our store to compare this GIA Ex Steep/Deep to another diamond which was a Hearts & Arrows diamond that featured girdle cutting GIA does not consider to get the Ex grade. To my own astonishment 90% of the viewers selected the GIA Ex which had 35.1 crown angles nad 41.2 pavilion angles (I think the HCA on it was around a 3.6 or so) over the other which was a 1.0 HCA (or around that). That at least confirmed for me GIA''s allowance of certain steep/deep combos. I have not inspected the amount of steep/deeps I''d like to as we''re working on getting stones cut that fall right on the cusp of the GIA Ex-VG grade. Ie. I want to see what appearance falls at that cusp.

Regarding the shallow angled combo''s wmw, when pavilion angles are cut on the shallow side there are instances where too much darkness is present in the stone to get the GIA Ex grade. It is something they refer to as "dark radiating mains" or in other instances there''s a greater presence of darkness under the table. Generally speaking pavilion main facets (the facets that make up the arrows) are great reflectors of light and provide awesome broad flash. When those angles are cut shallower they almost don''t light up or tend to stay dark even as the stone is tilted and rocked. When I see pavilion angles of 40.6 or less I generally like to see that coupled with crown angles of 35 or greater to compensate.

Attached in the graphic below is a shallow angled combo alongside a steep deep with a visible ring of death. You can see the "dark radiating mains" in the stone on the left and the results of leakage in the stone on the right.

On a personal level, I like the look of the shallow stones better (not to mention reasons of spread as well) but if given the choice I stick with rocks that fall in the zenith of GIA/AGS top grades.

A few days ago we had a poster ask about a 40.4 pav angle diamond that has a GIA Excellent cut on the grading report, yet if you put in the exact numbers into Facetware it only gets a VG score.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/to-much-education-frustrated-and-at-a-lose-help.49235/

Interesting. We recently had a stone in here with 40.4 angles coupled with 35.5 crown angles but got the VG grade. The stone really didn''t look bad at all however with folks purchasing off of paper a GIA VG shuns many anal folks away. I should have photographed this one for reference.

So in short ... shallow angled combo''s will generally contribute to more darker areas within a diamond as opposed to brighter areas and is why they don''t make either GIA or AGS ideal designations. With the 40.6 threshold, that only applies to certain crown angle /depth combos so its certainly not a hard fast rule. My advice if there''s anything in question is to *see* the stone. The difference may not be a big whoop and if it''s discounted because of it, all the more.

As I play around with the FacetWare using 34.5 crown angles, 40.6 paviloin angles and a 56 table; stones get the Ex grade with depths up to 61.9% and as low at 60.0%. Once they hit 59.9% or 62% it drops to a VG. I haven''t seen this particular type of combo to either confirm or deny (going from 61.9 to 62.0) but I''m always keeping my peepers open.

The photo below is a good example of the effects of certain shallow stones (the stone on the left). Next time I get one that falls on the cusp I''ll be sure to photograph that as well for educational purposes.

Thanks for the question. Hope that helps.

Kind regards,

 

[Rhino]

As I play around more with FacetWare I see there are tons of 40.6 combos that all get the Ex grade. I'm too anal.

 

[whatmeworry]

Rhino,
Thanks for the reply. I guess I need to get rid of the sombrero.