Is your e-ring UN-insured?

[Nicrez]

Oddly, I would say that your largest risk factor is not that you live in NY as much as it is that you travel. Through the years of traveling and watching my friends and family travel a very obscene amount, there is always lost pieces, misplacements, weather changes so rings loosen or over tighten, and the usual robberies and hotel room thefts (even safes). Just this past trip my sister was robbed at knife-point in Valencia.

Luckily I have lost jewlery I could pretty much replace (or just didn''t care to) when they were not insured. But should there be any misshap now I am not worried. Even in case of a robbery, you won''t be as likely to fight for that ring, risking your life unnecessarily for a ring you could get full value for. It''s the worst kind of feeling losing something so dear and being there to watch it happen, but better a ring than a loved one...

Plus, Diamond Fan, people pay higher premiums in higher risk areas, not so much for chipping and unsetting, but insurance is usually paid out most on theft and a calculation of number of "mysterious diappearances" occur per area. In NY, there are more robberies, higher value items, more dishonest house employees, more cab rides, more subways, more travel outside the home area, more trips to public places where rings are left, or lost, and as such the premiums reflect that. Like car insurance.

Iwonder where the highest premiums for jewlery are if not in NYC...

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/17/2007 7:42:44 AM
Author: crown1
hi harriet! i feel that insurance is like betting against yourself. i don''t think it is worth loosing sleep over not having insurance of any kind. i do however think if you have the cash to pay for premiums it is ill advised to not insure yourself against some things.

i am not sure how much you want to push the issue but i would simply not go without on the e-ring. i suspect if the ring is lost, stolen or damaged your df would be able to handle it since it is not likely he would be responsible. you, on the other hand, might feel the pain more due to responsibility issues. if he is willing to take the risk, that is fine, but he is causing you undue concern over a small amount of money in the scheme of things. just judging on the posts you have made about your lifestyle i think he is swallowing an elephant and gaging on a gnat.

I am putting my foot down.
Btw, I''ve never heard that expression. It''s funny.

 

[Nicrez]

I say insure it for the time you live in NYC, or until you move to a lower risk area, or stop traveling so much for work. If these are not factors, then insure it for the half life of the ring''s value (preferably the true replacement value), so that once you have paid half the price of the ring in premiums, the rest will be saved for the replacement value, or if you can do the calcuations to shave a few years off it with higher rate investment of the funds once the value has dropped. You will basically ignore or factor in the change in prices as the years pass. It''s your option.

All I am going to say is Excel spreadsheets can be your friend...

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/17/2007 9:23:11 AM
Author: Nicrez
Oddly, I would say that your largest risk factor is not that you live in NY as much as it is that you travel. Through the years of traveling and watching my friends and family travel a very obscene amount, there is always lost pieces, misplacements, weather changes so rings loosen or over tighten, and the usual robberies and hotel room thefts (even safes). Just this past trip my sister was robbed at knife-point in Valencia.

Luckily I have lost jewlery I could pretty much replace (or just didn''t care to) when they were not insured. But should there be any misshap now I am not worried. Even in case of a robbery, you won''t be as likely to fight for that ring, risking your life unnecessarily for a ring you could get full value for. It''s the worst kind of feeling losing something so dear and being there to watch it happen, but better a ring than a loved one...

Plus, Diamond Fan, people pay higher premiums in higher risk areas, not so much for chipping and unsetting, but insurance is usually paid out most on theft and a calculation of number of ''mysterious diappearances'' occur per area. In NY, there are more robberies, higher value items, more dishonest house employees, more cab rides, more subways, more travel outside the home area, more trips to public places where rings are left, or lost, and as such the premiums reflect that. Like car insurance.

Iwonder where the highest premiums for jewlery are if not in NYC...

That''s why he''s dissuading me from travelling with it. I''d love to show it off back home though.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/17/2007 9:28:44 AM
Author: Nicrez
I say insure it for the time you live in NYC, or until you move to a lower risk area, or stop traveling so much for work. If these are not factors, then insure it for the half life of the ring''s value (preferably the true replacement value), so that once you have paid half the price of the ring in premiums, the rest will be saved for the replacement value, or if you can do the calcuations to shave a few years off it with higher rate investment of the funds once the value has dropped. You will basically ignore or factor in the change in prices as the years pass. It''s your option.

All I am going to say is Excel spreadsheets can be your friend...

Darn! I''m not the Excel expert. He is.

 

[Nicrez]

Date: 7/17/2007 9:28:47 AM
Author: Harriet

Date: 7/17/2007 9:23:11 AM
Author: Nicrez
Oddly, I would say that your largest risk factor is not that you live in NY as much as it is that you travel. Through the years of traveling and watching my friends and family travel a very obscene amount, there is always lost pieces, misplacements, weather changes so rings loosen or over tighten, and the usual robberies and hotel room thefts (even safes). Just this past trip my sister was robbed at knife-point in Valencia.

Luckily I have lost jewlery I could pretty much replace (or just didn''t care to) when they were not insured. But should there be any misshap now I am not worried. Even in case of a robbery, you won''t be as likely to fight for that ring, risking your life unnecessarily for a ring you could get full value for. It''s the worst kind of feeling losing something so dear and being there to watch it happen, but better a ring than a loved one...

Plus, Diamond Fan, people pay higher premiums in higher risk areas, not so much for chipping and unsetting, but insurance is usually paid out most on theft and a calculation of number of ''mysterious diappearances'' occur per area. In NY, there are more robberies, higher value items, more dishonest house employees, more cab rides, more subways, more travel outside the home area, more trips to public places where rings are left, or lost, and as such the premiums reflect that. Like car insurance.

Iwonder where the highest premiums for jewlery are if not in NYC...

That''s why he''s dissuading me from travelling with it. I''d love to show it off back home though.

Oh he''s a real stick in the mud!

What convinced someone i know to get insurance (I-banker) was hitting him in the ego. I said, listen, you go out and buy a Ferrari of engagement rings and then you buy it STOCK with no cup holders and no insurance. Way to go cheapo."

He got insurance. Sure it was drastic, but my friend came to me crying about how she didn''t tell him she had already misplaced the ring or it slipped off 3 times in one month and was frightened of losing it...

 

[Nicrez]

Date: 7/17/2007 9:30:41 AM
Author: Harriet

Date: 7/17/2007 9:28:44 AM
Author: Nicrez
I say insure it for the time you live in NYC, or until you move to a lower risk area, or stop traveling so much for work. If these are not factors, then insure it for the half life of the ring''s value (preferably the true replacement value), so that once you have paid half the price of the ring in premiums, the rest will be saved for the replacement value, or if you can do the calcuations to shave a few years off it with higher rate investment of the funds once the value has dropped. You will basically ignore or factor in the change in prices as the years pass. It''s your option.

All I am going to say is Excel spreadsheets can be your friend...

Darn! I''m not the Excel expert. He is.

Yes FOR HIM! Basically don''t offer options, say NO we are getting insurance, but sweetie it''s your job now to optimize the savings for such a thing...here''s a computer, here''s Excel, GO.

 

[Harriet]

Nicrez,
I can be a stubborn one too.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 7/17/2007 9:11:03 AM
Author: Harriet

Date: 7/16/2007 9:48:57 PM
Author: Skippy123
how much is the insurance?

Over $1k.

Then it is worth it on your ring. Or get one w/a deductible maybe it won''t be as much.

 

[Nicrez]

Date: 7/17/2007 9:49:34 AM
Author: Harriet
Nicrez,
I can be a stubborn one too.

Which is why you are so excellent!

 

[diamondfan]

Insurance companies are not charities, they are in business to make money. They would certainly be happy to collect your premiums and never pay you on a claim. Insurance companies assess situations and see if they think you are a good risk. I would rather not take chances. Better to pay and never need it.

Nicrez, I have only lived in Los Angeles and Philadelphia so I only know what I was quoted. We use Chubb, and my ring alone was thousands a year to insure when we got it two years ago. I do not recall the details but they asked if we have a monitored alarm system, a safe and a bank box off property, which we do. I am sure they used my zip code in making assessments, and as the Main Line is very safe overall, I am sure it helped. I did not ask if it would more expensive in New Yorkk or less so in a small town. But I would not dare have my ring uninsured, and when I do travel with it I make sure the hotel has safes. I sometimes will use the room safe, it just depends. But I have been to Europe and the Islands with it, and have felt okay about taking it. When I have not, it stays in a safe at home or at the bank.

 

[Nicrez]

Date: 7/17/2007 10:29:22 AM
Author: diamondfan
Insurance companies are not charities, they are in business to make money. They would certainly be happy to collect your premiums and never pay you on a claim. Insurance companies assess situations and see if they think you are a good risk. I would rather not take chances. Better to pay and never need it.

Nicrez, I have only lived in Los Angeles and Philadelphia so I only know what I was quoted. We use Chubb, and my ring alone was thousands a year to insure when we got it two years ago. I do not recall the details but they asked if we have a monitored alarm system, a safe and a bank box off property, which we do. I am sure they used my zip code in making assessments, and as the Main Line is very safe overall, I am sure it helped. I did not ask if it would more expensive in New Yorkk or less so in a small town. But I would not dare have my ring uninsured, and when I do travel with it I make sure the hotel has safes. I sometimes will use the room safe, it just depends. But I have been to Europe and the Islands with it, and have felt okay about taking it. When I have not, it stays in a safe at home or at the bank.

Actually, I think your rate may have been lowered due to home security systems and such. I can''t imagine what you would have been quoted with such a rock in South Central... LOL

Traveling with an insured ring is fine. But traveling for business with an uninsured ring is not always. I know you can''t always choose your hotel when traveling for work. The company does, and often times you are more hectic and running about in meetings and changing... plus you end up in odd places, like the random town where the head offices are cheaper. But I think any travel is scary with an uninsured expensive ring, especially when done often.

Glad your baby was safe...can''t imagine losing that beauty...

I think I would cry for you! Curious though, what was the rate in LA and Philly, because I would assume Philly would have a higher rate than LA, just based some pretty high crime rate numbers if i remember... Almost 3 times the national average of property crime and robbery, but far as I know that''s mostly car theft. (although LA is no better than NY or Philly)

In the end, any large city may have similar rates, just curious how NY fares compared to the other large ones...?

 

[surfgirl]

pyramid, just call Ralph Cohen and he can tell you the name of that contact in the UK. Ralph is in IL, by the way.

My personal belief is if you cant afford insurance on a ring, you cant afford the ring. If you CAN afford a ring, you should be able to afford the insurance.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/17/2007 10:13:48 AM
Author: Nicrez
Which is why you are so excellent!

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/17/2007 11:11:26 AM
Author: surfgirl
pyramid, just call Ralph Cohen and he can tell you the name of that contact in the UK. Ralph is in IL, by the way.

My personal belief is if you cant afford insurance on a ring, you cant afford the ring. If you CAN afford a ring, you should be able to afford the insurance.

surfgirl,
For my fiance, the issue is not affordability. It''s cost vs. benefit.

 

[Beacon]

Date: 7/17/2007 9:16:15 AM
Author: Harriet

Date: 7/17/2007 12:42:50 AM
Author: Beacon
I''ve been on both sides of this one.

Insurance companies price policies to make money and understand well the likelihood of improbable events. Therefore insurance is generally priced to profit the insurer.

For years I never insured anything beyond a rider on my household policy that doesn''t do much and is very cheap. Remarkably I did lose a pearl bracelet (fell off at the opera) and it was covered by this policy and I got the full amount. I was very pleased! Recently I started a policy with Chubb b/c there were a rash of burglaries in my area. Not all my things are insured, but it does make me feel better about leaving jewelry at home, rather than in the bank all the time.

For that I would say the premium I am paying is more about peace of mind than an economic analysis.

He made this argument last night!

And he is correct.

Insurance companies are very rich indeed. On an aggregate basis they price to make a slim profit. This is the so called "experience ratio". Their major revenue comes from the "float" meaning the money they earn on the premiums you pay. You could replicate this by paying that premium to "yourself" and putting it in a dedicated investment account. Provided you are capable of getting a market rate of return and you don''t lose your ring right away, you will be ahead with this strategy. Of course, if a person knows they are a klutz, tends to lose their stuff, or has an emotional issue about the off chance of losing something then they better get insurance.

I got some insurance recently but I freely admit it is an emotional/mental crutch. I know my weaknesses

. But that said, I did limit the premium payouts and scheduled stuff that tends to sit in the house and is thus vulnerable to a thief. It has provided me moments of happiness when I thought "It''s ok if I left it out on the counter - it''s insured".

. But it''s not real rational.

If you honestly cannot afford to replace your item then insurance will add greatly to your mental tranquility, but I suspect you can replace the ring if you needed to.

 

[diamondfan]

Nicrez, I only had my two expensive rings in Philly. The first was a three stone emerald cut from Tiffany''s, three carat center and a carat on each side, all E VVS1. That was insured through USAA. Then we traded with Tiffany''s for my current one and USAA sent us to Chubb because it was more than they deal with apparently. In LA I had my original ring, which I think was worth, 17 plus years ago, around 10,000.00 and not sure what the premiums were on that one. I have left my ring at home many times, if I have any doubts about secure storage and locale. At home I always try to lock it up, get in the habit even though it is a pain. In LA, we lived in a nice neighborhood, but I did go to grad school in somewhat of less nice area, so not sure if I DID have my current ring if I would have worn it to class. Can only say what I know now from dealing with Chubb, and I do not recall my final quote, I did the legwork when we were purchasing so it would be insured before I walked out of Tiffany''s but let hubby deal with the rest. We also moved all of our jewelry of any substance to Chubb, so I am not sure if they reduced anything due to that. I assume also that they see if you never made claims in the past, so you are more careful and not likely to make a claim, but not sure how that all factors in.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/17/2007 12:17:40 PM
Author: Beacon

Date: 7/17/2007 9:16:15 AM
Author: Harriet

Date: 7/17/2007 12:42:50 AM
Author: Beacon
I''ve been on both sides of this one.

Insurance companies price policies to make money and understand well the likelihood of improbable events. Therefore insurance is generally priced to profit the insurer.

For years I never insured anything beyond a rider on my household policy that doesn''t do much and is very cheap. Remarkably I did lose a pearl bracelet (fell off at the opera) and it was covered by this policy and I got the full amount. I was very pleased! Recently I started a policy with Chubb b/c there were a rash of burglaries in my area. Not all my things are insured, but it does make me feel better about leaving jewelry at home, rather than in the bank all the time.

For that I would say the premium I am paying is more about peace of mind than an economic analysis.

He made this argument last night!

And he is correct.

Insurance companies are very rich indeed. On an aggregate basis they price to make a slim profit. This is the so called ''experience ratio''. Their major revenue comes from the ''float'' meaning the money they earn on the premiums you pay. You could replicate this by paying that premium to ''yourself'' and putting it in a dedicated investment account. Provided you are capable of getting a market rate of return and you don''t lose your ring right away, you will be ahead with this strategy. Of course, if a person knows they are a klutz, tends to lose their stuff, or has an emotional issue about the off chance of losing something then they better get insurance.

I got some insurance recently but I freely admit it is an emotional/mental crutch. I know my weaknesses

. But that said, I did limit the premium payouts and scheduled stuff that tends to sit in the house and is thus vulnerable to a thief. It has provided me moments of happiness when I thought ''It''s ok if I left it out on the counter - it''s insured''.

. But it''s not real rational.

If you honestly cannot afford to replace your item then insurance will add greatly to your mental tranquility, but I suspect you can replace the ring if you needed to.

This, Beacon dear, is priceless.

 

[Cathers]

OMG! mental tranquility!! priceless!! I have to write that one down! love it!

 

[diamondfan]

If only having jewelry insurance would give me mental tranquility ELSEWHERE! I would pay the premiums gladly...

 

[Beacon]

Date: 7/18/2007 1:36:19 AM
Author: diamondfan
If only having jewelry insurance would give me mental tranquility ELSEWHERE! I would pay the premiums gladly...

Ha, ha, ha, wouldn't that be great! But it's the few things that you can control that are helpful. So, if you tend to leave the house and worry about your jewelry getting stolen then yes indeed, you can buy that worry off via insurance. And yes, there is a real benefit to that that has nothing to do with the "spreadsheet analysis".

My alarm system falls into the same catagory. Of course it's not so costly to have a monitored alarm system but it has added greatly to my calmness. Since I have a rather unfortunate habit of imagining that I have left some critical electrical appliance on when I leave home, I make sure that all my stuff has an "auto shut off" feature. That has given me a lot of comfort at various times. Like I said, I know my weaknesses.

I do wish all troubles could be assuaged so simply!

 

[diamondfan]

Well, I am a true worry wart. I think of stupid things and worry about them as if they could and will happen for sure.

Back in the day, my parents got an alarm system because some people were murdered in Beverly Hills a few blocks from us. It freaked them so they got an alarm. Turned out it was a business retaliation gone awry, but nonetheless my parents felt they needed an alarm system. This was nearly 30 years ago, so not sure how sophisticated this thing was. It has alarmed screens and in the summer we would leave windows open because we had no air conditioning, my mom hated it so we all had to roast. If the slightest breeze blew a screen the alarm would go off and scare the pants off of us. One night this happened like 5 times. I am sure the neighborhood loved us. We ended up shutting it off that night, so much for security. It was so sensitive it seemed to do that all of the time, and it made me bonkers, so I stopped using it all together...and made my mom actually start locking our front door! (duh).

 

[pyramid]

Date: 7/17/2007 11:11:26 AM
Author: surfgirl
pyramid, just call Ralph Cohen and he can tell you the name of that contact in the UK. Ralph is in IL, by the way.

My personal belief is if you cant afford insurance on a ring, you cant afford the ring. If you CAN afford a ring, you should be able to afford the insurance.

Yes I am just about to arrange my insurance. I was just letting Steel know about Ralph Cohen because she is in Ireland and was not sure if she was happy about the details of the insurance she already has.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/18/2007 1:36:19 AM
Author: diamondfan
If only having jewelry insurance would give me mental tranquility ELSEWHERE! I would pay the premiums gladly...

I''d pay the premiums and the some.

 

[echelon6]

Not sure if this is of interest to anyone, but from a numbers perspective, I recommend insurance as it is definitely cheaper in the long run than running the risk of losing your ring uninsured (but shop around, a rider on a H&C policy seems much less costly than say, a standalone policy from Chubb)

If the insurer prices the premiums accurately, its a win win situation for both. Contrary to popular myth, insurance companies don''t make money from charging more in premiums than they pay out. They actually pay on average more than they ever receive in premiums. Their profit comes from investing all premiums held at any time, net of payouts (called the float), and pocketing some of the investment returns.

Think of insurance as a positive-sum game, where not only are you insured, but on average, policy holders get more than what they put in, in dollar terms (and even present value terms in some cases)

 

[crown1]

so harriet, after four pages of advice has anything come up that has changed the insurance situation?

are you lobbying fervently or have up decided it is not worth the hassle? good luck which ever route you decide to follow.

 

[Harriet]

Thanks for checking in, crown 1. We will be getting the darn insurance. But, I may not have time to drop my ring off at LM''s before I leave though.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/18/2007 8:54:04 AM
Author: echelon6
Not sure if this is of interest to anyone, but from a numbers perspective, I recommend insurance as it is definitely cheaper in the long run than running the risk of losing your ring uninsured (but shop around, a rider on a H&C policy seems much less costly than say, a standalone policy from Chubb)

If the insurer prices the premiums accurately, its a win win situation for both. Contrary to popular myth, insurance companies don''t make money from charging more in premiums than they pay out. They actually pay on average more than they ever receive in premiums. Their profit comes from investing all premiums held at any time, net of payouts (called the float), and pocketing some of the investment returns.

Think of insurance as a positive-sum game, where not only are you insured, but on average, policy holders get more than what they put in, in dollar terms (and even present value terms in some cases)

Of course we''re interested.

This is an edifying debate.

 

[winternight]

My ring is insured and actually I paid for it, since my fiance paid for the ring I thought I''d do that. Well he ended up paying for the insurance too anyways. I don''t really see why you can''t just insure it yourself? You can also get a multiple jewelry rider that covers say 20-30k worth of jewelry at a time. I like being able to travel with my ring and walk around and never, ever worry about it. It makes me enjoy my ring that much more.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/18/2007 11:16:02 AM
Author: winternight
My ring is insured and actually I paid for it, since my fiance paid for the ring I thought I''d do that. Well he ended up paying for the insurance too anyways. I don''t really see why you can''t just insure it yourself? You can also get a multiple jewelry rider that covers say 20-30k worth of jewelry at a time. I like being able to travel with my ring and walk around and never, ever worry about it. It makes me enjoy my ring that much more.

I could, but we like to make sure we agree on bigger purchases.