Is this online OEC any good?

[umbrella]

Hello I was hoping to get anyone's opinion on this OEC I have found online. It's estimated 1.10ct, J/K colour, VS clarity. No proper GIA/AGS certification so colour grades might be off a couple which concerns me a little. From the photos it might look a bit warmer than a J/K?

Does it look like this stone would perform okay? I want it to be very firey with no dead/obstructed areas. Really difficult to tell from photos only, but I know there are some PSers out there with incredible eyes *cough Dreamer cough* for online OECs. Unfortunately a video cannot be supplied.

Approx measurements 6.6mm wide and 4.12mm deep. 49% table, 62% depth. FYI I will take it out of this setting and pop it in an art deco inspired platinum setting.







Thank you!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Looks beautiful! I'd certainly order it and take a look at it assuming there is a return policy. But I personally don't order diamonds without the return policy, especially at that size and price. I'd want the color and clarity assessed by an appraiser.

 

[umbrella]

Looks beautiful! I'd certainly order it and take a look at it assuming there is a return policy. But I personally don't order diamonds without the return policy, especially at that size and price. I'd want the color and clarity assessed by an appraiser.

Thank you for your reply! I'm glad it looks like a promising stone. It appears to have a 7 day return policy, only problem is that the stone is in the USA and I'm in Australia. So I'd be paying taxes when I receive it, which I'm okay with, but I think it's pretty difficult to apply for those taxes to be refunded if I were to return the ring. Maybe I just have to deal with the fact that those issues are going to arise if I buy a stone overseas. I was also hoping to simply purchase the diamond online and have the stone sent directly to David Klass for my custom setting, to avoid all the middle men and additional shipping costs etc. But maybe it's safer for me to inspect the stone myself. Alternatively I suppose I could have the diamond sent to an appraiser in the States? Do you recommend any appraisers? The diamond is located on the East Coast, but David of course is in LA.

 

[arkieb1]

One of, if not the best old cut appraisers is located probably near the stone he IS the guy that wrote the guide to purchasing old cuts Dave Atlas;

http://datlas.com/contact/

The cut looks perfect to my eyes it's just a matter now of having someone confirm the colour and clarity for you.

 

[the_mother_thing]

One of, if not the best old cut appraisers is located probably near the stone he IS the guy that wrote the guide to purchasing old cuts Dave Atlas.

Was this figurative or literal (David writing an article/guide on buying old cuts)? If literal, might you recall where it is posted? I would be very interested in reading it for informational/educational purposes.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yes, David Atlas would be a good choice! He can give you a good assessment of the stone and can send it back for you if it is not what you were hoping.

 

[umbrella]

Great, thanks so much! I'll definitely look into David Atlas.

In the first 2 photos I attached, the stone looks like several facets are quite dark, would this most likely be contrast? Or could it be obstruction or flat/dull facets?

 

[arkieb1]

One of, if not the best old cut appraisers is located probably near the stone he IS the guy that wrote the guide to purchasing old cuts Dave Atlas.

Was this figurative or literal (David writing an article/guide on buying old cuts)? If literal, might you recall where it is posted? I would be very interested in reading it for informational/educational purposes.

I was being literal. Dave is a world leader on old cut grading here is an article;

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/modern-quest-old-cut-diamonds

Basic chart for Old cuts (note that some can still be beautiful and fall outside this chart, it's a general guide);

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/screening_chart_old_european_cut_diamonds

He is also the person that does most of the mini certificates that come with LAD and JBGs stones.

There are also lots of other great appraisers like Richard Sherwood and others recommended on here if you use the Resources tab above here is the link;

https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers

But if the stone is already near Dave, he would be my first choice.

 

[umbrella]

Great, thanks so much! I'll definitely look into David Atlas.

In the first 2 photos I attached, the stone looks like several facets are quite dark, would this most likely be contrast? Or could it be obstruction or flat/dull facets?

Just a gentle bump to see if anyone can answer this question

 

[Dreamer_D]

Cut looks great, darkness is just from the camera and doesn't concern me. Some haziness or leakage between the arrows but that is typical in this make, not sure if it will bother you. The images do look photoshopped (third one especially) but not sure that's an issue. I think they shopped out some of the darkness from camera obstruction, but that doesn't matter in this stone most likely. Assume it's at least an MNO colour stone. It looks like it's being sold be a professional and they know how to market, and JK is eBay speak for "not white".

Price?

ETA Dave can't tell you if you will like this diamond. You need to see it before setting it

 

[umbrella]

Hi Dreamer, thanks for your detailed reply. Glad you think it appears to be a great cut! I am worried that the stone indeed is an M/N/O. I will not purchase it if it's that warm, I don't think I'd personally be happy with that much warmth. I have asked for more photos of the diamond side view against a white background, perhaps that will give me a better idea if it's worth considering the diamond and having it sent to David Atlas. The ring is $3k, which I don't think is a great deal if it's M/N/O. If it's a J/K, then I'd be prepared to buy it. What are your thoughts on the price?

 

[the_mother_thing]

Thx so much Arkie! I shall begin reading ... Can't get enough!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Hi Dreamer, thanks for your detailed reply. Glad you think it appears to be a great cut! I am worried that the stone indeed is an M/N/O. I will not purchase it if it's that warm, I don't think I'd personally be happy with that much warmth. I have asked for more photos of the diamond side view against a white background, perhaps that will give me a better idea if it's worth considering the diamond and having it sent to David Atlas. The ring is $3k, which I don't think is a great deal if it's M/N/O. If it's a J/K, then I'd be prepared to buy it. What are your thoughts on the price?

I feel pretty sure its not a J/K. I have never seen something on ebay that is less tinted than advertised ETA: also, the areas of leakage/haze between the arrows are yellowish-brown. In my experience, that is a good sign of the body tint being quite heavy.

For that price I would like to buy a diamond with a lab report from Jewels by Grace or Love Affair Diamonds. Would be a similar price for the true grade of this stone.

 

[arkieb1]

Hi Dreamer, thanks for your detailed reply. Glad you think it appears to be a great cut! I am worried that the stone indeed is an M/N/O. I will not purchase it if it's that warm, I don't think I'd personally be happy with that much warmth. I have asked for more photos of the diamond side view against a white background, perhaps that will give me a better idea if it's worth considering the diamond and having it sent to David Atlas. The ring is $3k, which I don't think is a great deal if it's M/N/O. If it's a J/K, then I'd be prepared to buy it. What are your thoughts on the price?

I feel pretty sure its not a J/K. I have never seen something on ebay that is less tinted than advertised ETA: also, the areas of leakage/haze between the arrows are yellowish-brown. In my experience, that is a good sign of the body tint being quite heavy.

For that price I would like to buy a diamond with a lab report from Jewels by Grace or Love Affair Diamonds. Would be a similar price for the true grade of this stone.

This is why we were suggesting sending it to a decent appraiser, not to tell her if she is going to like the cut of it or not - to tell her the REAL actual colour and clarity - she is in Australia so sending stone back and forth for her to look at is not an option in this case someone like Dave that can give her an honest unbiased opinion is worth the money and effort, or as you point out she should stick to someone who is reliable like Erica, Grace, Adam or the new old cuts from Victor or GOG, where everyone knows the colour, cut and clarity is O.K.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Hi Dreamer, thanks for your detailed reply. Glad you think it appears to be a great cut! I am worried that the stone indeed is an M/N/O. I will not purchase it if it's that warm, I don't think I'd personally be happy with that much warmth. I have asked for more photos of the diamond side view against a white background, perhaps that will give me a better idea if it's worth considering the diamond and having it sent to David Atlas. The ring is $3k, which I don't think is a great deal if it's M/N/O. If it's a J/K, then I'd be prepared to buy it. What are your thoughts on the price?

I feel pretty sure its not a J/K. I have never seen something on ebay that is less tinted than advertised ETA: also, the areas of leakage/haze between the arrows are yellowish-brown. In my experience, that is a good sign of the body tint being quite heavy.

For that price I would like to buy a diamond with a lab report from Jewels by Grace or Love Affair Diamonds. Would be a similar price for the true grade of this stone.

This is why we were suggesting sending it to a decent appraiser, not to tell her if she is going to like the cut of it or not - to tell her the REAL actual colour and clarity - she is in Australia so sending stone back and forth for her to look at is not an option in this case someone like Dave that can give her an honest unbiased opinion is worth the money and effort, or as you point out she should stick to someone who is reliable like Erica, Grace, Adam or the new old cuts from Victor or GOG, where everyone knows the colour, cut and clarity is O.K.

I understand your advice, Arkie. Buying on eBay, I don't think its worth the appraiser. I would be happy to be proven wrong and discover there is one estate seller accurately representing his/her goods with respect to color. But that seems a long shot. Add to that the fact that an appraiser cannot tell her if the cut is pleasing specifically to HER eyes, and it becomes a wasted process. That is my opinion based on those photos.

Umbrella you seem to vascilate between an AVC and ebay. I suggest the middle ground of a true antique bought from a reliable vendor.

 

[umbrella]

I appreciate everyone's comments - thank you. I have received more photographs from the vendor, comparing the "J" to another "J" and a "G" and an "M" and this stone looked like an ugly M. Like a greenish brownish grey M. Disappointing but I had a feeling it was too good to be true. Interestingly their other "J" did appear only very slightly tinted and more appropriately graded as a J. Anyway I'll give this stone a miss and continue with my search.

Dreamer I would absolutely love an AVR, but the prices are quite steep and they rarely get new stock in. Even trying the custom route hasn't proved successful for me. The reason why I'm still toying with Etsy/eBay/Ruby Lane is simply to keep my options open in case a lovely stone pops up. In this case it was a lovely stone, but not the colour for me. I do agree that sticking with LAD or JBG is probably my best option price and safety-wise. But like GOG, there hasn't been anything which fits my criteria for a while and there hasn't been any predicted stock coming in either. OWD has a wonderfully large inventory, but I have had unreliable communication from them, so I just can't rely on them as a vendor, especially being located overseas.

Just wanted to clarify something too I initially was asking PS for advice if this was a good cut. Which several people said yes! I wanted to first get that answer to then decide if it was worth spending the extra pennies and have it sent to an appraiser for colour and clarity confirmation. I understand appraisers can't necessarily tell me if it has wonderful performance, or if it's a cut I'd like.

Once again thank you all so much for your help! I'll find an OEC one day!

 

[RandG]

Umbrella, sorry I missed you were looking for an old cut but just want to wish you well in your search and say don't give up! It's out there, and you don't have to pay an excessive premium for it either. Patience pays.

I also want to encourage you to keep looking on ebay. I've bought many stones on ebay or through vendors found via ebay. Yes, its very hard, and you have to do your diligence, know what you're buying, and buy well but if you do the extra leg work (as you're doing), there are very good opportunities to be exploited.

Finding an old stone that speaks to you is a journey. It can be a daunting one too. But hang in there. Your stone is out there.

I'm pulling for you

 

[umbrella]

Umbrella, sorry I missed you were looking for an old cut but just want to wish you well in your search and say don't give up! It's out there, and you don't have to pay an excessive premium for it either. Patience pays.

I also want to encourage you to keep looking on ebay. I've bought many stones on ebay or through vendors found via ebay. Yes, its very hard, and you have to do your diligence, know what you're buying, and buy well but if you do the extra leg work (as you're doing), there are very good opportunities to be exploited.

Finding an old stone that speaks to you is a journey. It can be a daunting one too. But hang in there. Your stone is out there.

I'm pulling for you

Thank you for your encouraging words. I'm finding it a bit of a long and arduous process looking for the right OEC, so it's really lovely to have your support. I do think it would be really satisfying if I found a great OEC on eBay/etsy/other. I think I am putting in enough leg work (like you kindly said) and am being very patient. I mean of course I'm super keen to get the diamond already, but I'm not settling for one that's not right for me to get one quicker. I am still checking GOG, LAD and JBG daily for any new stones or rings if anything pops up there.

Thanks again, you really cheered me up

 

[arkieb1]

A decent cut L or M can hide or mask colour, I'm guessing if it was ugly then it was closer to a GIA N or lower. Have you talked to Victor? He is possibly going to be cutting some J/K/L coloured OECs you could always email him and ask. Other than that keep hassling Erica and Grace they get new stock in all the time, something that you love will eventually turn up.

 

[umbrella]

A decent cut L or M can hide or mask colour, I'm guessing if it was ugly then it was closer to a GIA N or lower. Have you talked to Victor? He is possibly going to be cutting some J/K/L coloured OECs you could always email him and ask. Other than that keep hassling Erica and Grace they get new stock in all the time, something that you love will eventually turn up.

I think you're right about the colour. It was probably closer to an M/N. I don't think I would have minded the warmth if it was a yellow tone M, but it was the greenish tone which bothered me. Anyway, looks like it's been purchased now so time to move on!


I have spoken with Victor's assistant, she was helpful but a bit vague when I asked about custom cut options and rather than exploring the custom cut, she encouraged me to consider the stones on their inventory (which were much smaller, whiter, and pricier than I said I requested). So I left it at that.

I think Erica and Grace are probably my best bet at this stage. I feel bad emailing them all the time though. I don't want to feel like I'm taking up their time

 

[SB621]

If you are looking at old cuts I would throw Old World Diamonds into the mix along with Erica and Grace. Those 3 people are sort of my holy trinity when it comes to antique diamonds. With OWD don't look at his website but call or email Adam to tell him what you want.

 

[Bananas]

I have spoken with Victor's assistant, she was helpful but a bit vague when I asked about custom cut options and rather than exploring the custom cut, she encouraged me to consider the stones on their inventory (which were much smaller, whiter, and pricier than I said I requested). So I left it at that.
:

Umbrella,

I also recently inquired about new inventory of Victor's OECs. I was told they won't be making any more.

 

[Niel]

saw this and thought of you

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-20-carat-OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-PLATINUM-DIAMOND-RING-HALO-SPLIT-SHANK-HAND-MADE/181605876751?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27538%26meid%3D0141eddeddbc488ea17c2dd31caf65c2%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D11353%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D151504573638

no returns though......