Is this anti-Semitic?

[monarch64]

I think anyone can see anything they want in anything everywhere. It looked like spilt milk. That's a book about looking at the clouds and seeing different things. For all we know someone said ooooo hey better change that in case someone thinks it's supposed to mean this. Do we know? Nope. And the way I see it we will never get to the point where we can look at anything and NOT get upset. I get tired of this whole walking on eggshells lest we offend someone in some way shape or form bc that means we are the scum of the earth and should be ridiculed forever and trash talked until the cows come home in our righteous indignation. I really doubt there is hidden subliminal messages in everything we see and hear.

Said by someone who got to CHOOSE all of her tattoos.

I'm sorry, Packie, I love you but man you might wanna back off from this one. I am going to step away because it's not my fight to fight, but things like this can either be another opportunity to bury our heads further in the sand, or an opportunity to sit up and listen and learn from each other.

 

[packrat]

I've been told I'm going to hell my entire life. I've been made fun of for growing up as a Jehovah's Witness my entire life. I dare say many on this board have moaned and groaned and rolled your eyes about door knockers and many many other things related to Witnesses. That says nothing about me as a person nor about the JW religion. However it says a lot to me about the people who do it. Right? Actually it's been my experience these almost 42 years that it's perfectly acceptable. Turn that into a purple triangle and nobody would have a clue nor would they be shaking fists.

If someone is going to rail against me and tell me I'm going to hell about my religion, I say well shit I guess I lucked out bc I don't believe in a heaven or hell where you're sent upon death. Whew. Sucks to be you tho I guess bc I bet you've been taught judge not lest ye be judged yourself...I bet you'll get in trouble for that. Or I tell them I'm glad I don't follow their religion bc their God is an ******* and mine teaches love and acceptance.

I stand up for others all the time. Amd it gets me in trouble all the time. And yet I keep on doing it. But when it gets to the point where it's like my kids mom he's looking at me mom she's making me mad on purpose mom he's doing this mom he's doing that---that's when I know that sometimes we need to learn not everything is about us and not everything is a battle that is waiting to be fought and not every sound means there's bogeymen under every bed and in every closet, even if we think there are.

 

[missy]

packrat what does this have to do with the topic at hand? Do you think the tweet is anti semitic or are we just "nitpicking"? I am genuinely curious to understand what you think in this specific example.

 

[monarch64]

Packie, you are comparing apples to vacuums.

Peace.

 

[kenny]

I've been told I'm going to hell my entire life. I've been made fun of for growing up as a Jehovah's Witness my entire life. I dare say many on this board have moaned and groaned and rolled your eyes about door knockers and many many other things related to Witnesses. That says nothing about me as a person nor about the JW religion. However it says a lot to me about the people who do it. Right? Actually it's been my experience these almost 42 years that it's perfectly acceptable. Turn that into a purple triangle and nobody would have a clue nor would they be shaking fists.

If someone is going to rail against me and tell me I'm going to hell about my religion, I say well shit I guess I lucked out bc I don't believe in a heaven or hell where you're sent upon death. Whew. Sucks to be you tho I guess bc I bet you've been taught judge not lest ye be judged yourself...I bet you'll get in trouble for that. Or I tell them I'm glad I don't follow their religion bc their God is an ******* and mine teaches love and acceptance.

I stand up for others all the time. Amd it gets me in trouble all the time. And yet I keep on doing it. But when it gets to the point where it's like my kids mom he's looking at me mom she's making me mad on purpose mom he's doing this mom he's doing that---that's when I know that sometimes we need to learn not everything is about us and not everything is a battle that is waiting to be fought and not every sound means there's bogeymen under every bed and in every closet, even if we think there are.

It sucks that people poopoo you because your religion is not more popular.

I don't separate religions into 2 jars, legit and not-legit.
I feel the same about all religions, large and small, new and old.

Nothing makes me puke more than when I hear people feel THEIRS is one one-true religion.

I put ALL religions into the same jar.

 

[Gem Queen]

You know what I just thought of?? What if Hillary did this ad herself and blamed Trump for it to make him look worse?? It just popped into my head. Hope this observation doesn't start a new war!! Lol

 

[Gem Queen]

So, Packrat, for starters, My judge that I worked for for 5 years is JW. I sat down with him and said, "tell me about you religion." He did. I
find that any JW I have ever met were the kindest and nonjudgmental people of all religions. I love my people that come. I don't love it all the time, on every Saturday, but I am always respectful.
Now, setting that aside. You think that we are making mountains out of molehills by this Jewish star thing. You have no Idea!!
As a matter of fact, I don't know where you live, but to prove a point, Go out and buy a Star of David, hopefully you live in an area where there is a lot of prejudice. I was at a gem show yesterday. If this thread was up yesterday or Saturday, I would have bought one for you to wear. Wear it out where everyone can see and see what happens! I think you would be very surprised.
What does it say when someone sets a cross on fire in your frontward when they know you are Jewish? Thank God, it wasn't me, but some neighbors in the neighborhood close to me. That was a huge thing and some people didn't think it was a big deal.

 

[telephone89]

Trump didn't create the graphic. AFAIK someone else did and they just 'borrowed' it. I have no doubt it was intentionally anti-semetic, however I don't want to lump Trump into that category. I would give his people the small shred of benefit that they were just dumb, saw something insulting about Hilary and posted it. Doesn't make the original graphic any less terrible but I do think intentions are important.

My ILs once bought me a star of david diamond necklace. They apparently didn't realize the symbolism (I'm also atheist), and just thought it was pretty. Not everyone knows all the symbols and would pass this by.

 

[kenny]

Trump didn't create the graphic. AFAIK someone else did and they just 'borrowed' it. I have no doubt it was intentionally anti-semetic, however I don't want to lump Trump into that category. I would give his people the small shred of benefit that they were just dumb, saw something insulting about Hilary and posted it. Doesn't make the original graphic any less terrible but I do think intentions are important.

My ILs once bought me a star of david diamond necklace. They apparently didn't realize the symbolism (I'm also atheist), and just thought it was pretty. Not everyone knows all the symbols and would pass this by.

Nope.
When you're running for president of the United States you employ people with brains and eyes to spot how things come across.
I think Trump is too stoopid, arrogant, and self confident to allow anyone between him and his twitter feed.

 

[telephone89]

Nope.
When you're running for president of the United States you employ people with brains and eyes to spot how things come across.
I think Trump is too stoopid, arrogant, and self confident to allow anyone between him and his twitter feed.

Really? I'd be very surprised if he had no one running his social media. Even most local politicians (mayors) usually have someone else that does it.

 

[kenny]

Nope.
When you're running for president of the United States you employ people with brains and eyes to spot how things come across.
I think Trump is too stoopid, arrogant, and self confident to allow anyone between him and his twitter feed.

Really? I'd be very surprised if he had no one running his social media. Even most local politicians (mayors) usually have someone else that does it.

If so he hired someone as clueless as The Donald.

 

[ksinger]

Nope.
When you're running for president of the United States you employ people with brains and eyes to spot how things come across.
I think Trump is too stoopid, arrogant, and self confident to allow anyone between him and his twitter feed.

Really? I'd be very surprised if he had no one running his social media. Even most local politicians (mayors) usually have someone else that does it.

Trump’s claim to the benefit of any doubt is long expired.

Trump’s ties to white supremacists goes all the way back to his daddy being arrested at a KKK rally in NYC. The fruit in most cases, and Trump’s is no different, doesn’t fall too far from the tree. The fact that the white supremacists and neo-Nazis, are among his most ardent supporters says volumes to anyone who is paying attention. This is not the first time he or his “people”, likely his family members - I’ve heard they are the only people he truly trusts and suspect they are doing most of the tweets, have said or tweeted something monumentally stupid or racist. Again, fruit and tree.

My most recent favorite, were the emails from Trump’s son, to members of the Iceland, British, Scottish, and Australian parilments - at their GOVERNMENT email addresses no less - asking for money to support his campaign. Unbelievable. And massively illegal.

https://twitter.com/Stuart_McDonald/status/747370416944062465/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

[packrat]

I'm sorry. I choose to give people the benefit of the doubt and not automatically assume that something is done on purpose. I don't need to go out and buy a Star of David to know and understand nor do I need to wear one. I was brought up to not wear religious symbols and when I was a rebellious early teenager I wore teeny little cross earrings. That was scandalous. Then when I got olde I wore a turquoise cross ring bc I thought it was pretty. Amd I had an ankh hanging from my rearview mirror bc I thought it was cool. I do not need to go out and purposely try to put myself in a possible situation where I would be treated shabbily to understand---I know what I have experienced in my life for being what I was, by people who were scared of me bc they didn't understand. I know what it's like to stand up in a room of hundreds of people amd be the only one and be singled out bc of my religion. I know what it's like to say during a discussion of certain events that others were persecuted at that time as well and the persecution of all of them continues----and to be called a liar and told I was pathetic for bringing any other groups into it and the group I was referring to didn't matter bc nobody wore their symbol now. I don't discount that it continues to happen.

I thought that initial design was more eye catching than what it was changed to. Sometimes there are people who only see eye catching designs rather than a meaning behind it. That's how some of us see things.

Go ahead and see me as the embodiment of hate and ignorance for trying to point things aren't always about hate. Sometimes yes absolutely call a spade a spade if you know with absolute certainty the meanings of things. I choose to not always believe I know what is in everyone's hearts and minds all the time. Sometimes things aren't always t what they appear.

I r also been on the receiving end of do you know what that means!?!? As if I'm the most horrible person on the planet. bc of an innocent remark that was taken as if I am out right blatant racist and I was just trying to be hospitable offering something to eat that I was going tI cut up. I guess I need to go live by myself in a cave.

 

[Niel]

I'm sorry. I choose to give people the benefit of the doubt and not automatically assume that something is done on purpose. I don't need to go out and buy a Star of David to know and understand nor do I need to wear one. I was brought up to not wear religious symbols and when I was a rebellious early teenager I wore teeny little cross earrings. That was scandalous. Then when I got olde I wore a turquoise cross ring bc I thought it was pretty. Amd I had an ankh hanging from my rearview mirror bc I thought it was cool. I do not need to go out and purposely try to put myself in a possible situation where I would be treated shabbily to understand---I know what I have experienced in my life for being what I was, by people who were scared of me bc they didn't understand. I know what it's like to stand up in a room of hundreds of people amd be the only one and be singled out bc of my religion. I know what it's like to say during a discussion of certain events that others were persecuted at that time as well and the persecution of all of them continues----and to be called a liar and told I was pathetic for bringing any other groups into it and the group I was referring to didn't matter bc nobody wore their symbol now. I don't discount that it continues to happen.

I thought that initial design was more eye catching than what it was changed to. Sometimes there are people who only see eye catching designs rather than a meaning behind it. That's how some of us see things.

Go ahead and see me as the embodiment of hate and ignorance for trying to point things aren't always about hate. Sometimes yes absolutely call a spade a spade if you know with absolute certainty the meanings of things. I choose to not always believe I know what is in everyone's hearts and minds all the time. Sometimes things aren't always t what they appear.

I r also been on the receiving end of do you know what that means!?!? As if I'm the most horrible person on the planet. bc of an innocent remark that was taken as if I am out right blatant racist and I was just trying to be hospitable offering something to eat that I was going tI cut up. I guess I need to go live by myself in a cave.

I'm not sure sporting a cross in the country would have the same effect as wearing a star of David

I don't think you're racist. I just think it's easy to say "it doesn't offend me and thus is not a big deal".

I'm not Jewish and I have to admit my ignorance here I didnt notice right away that that particular tweet was offensive. I had read the attached article to see why people where upset. However after seeing it I can see why the Jewish community would be offended. Having not lived with anti semitism, I wouldn't presume to tell someone it is or is not offensive to their culture though.

 

[anne_h]

I did see it as anti-Semitic. I'm not Jewish, but easily recognize the 6-point star. To my eye it's a significant cultural icon.

I thought the image was offensive and in poor taste. And the later explanation about it being a "Sheriff's star"? Ridiculous.

Anne

 

[MissGotRocks]

I'm not Jewish either but I do recognize it. I still think that the need to change it to a circle spoke volumes about its intent. This is not a single, isolated event - it comes on the heels of many other unfavorable things he has said about different races and religions. There is certainly a basis for the suspicion - and Trump has no one but himself to blame for it.

 

[kenny]

300mil+ people, and this is the nominee? Really? REALLY???

Yes.
Out of 319 million Americans ... Donald Trump is the best Republican they could find.

This doesn't say much for the rest of the lot.

 

[caf]

If you're Jewish, that is the only thing you see. How come they didn't put a cross instead?

This.

And yes, it was and is.

 

[kenny]

If you're Jewish, that is the only thing you see. How come they didn't put a cross instead?

May I add ... If you're Jewish, antisemitic, or neither but informed and paying attention, that is the only thing you see.

I ain't Jewish and it popped right out to me.
But perhaps being in another crapped-upon group makes me notice these things.

 

[cmd2014]

Are you kidding me? As a non-Jewish person I would say that this is emphatically and maliciously anti-semitic. It was designed to be so by a neo-natzi website. And failing to recognize a Star of David as an instantly recognizable, world accepted symbol of Judaism (hint Donald...IT'S ON THE ISRAELI FLAG!) and instead saying it's a sheriff star is about the same as claiming that you mistook the symbol of the cross for the letter "t". Plus, a "plain star" only has 5 points. We all learned to draw one in Kindergarten.

This is particularly offensive (for those who are unaware of the history) because Hitler used jealously and resentment over the perceived disproportionate wealth of the Jewish people to gain the support of economically stressed Germans to support the persecution of the Jewish people, first through unfair taxation (a 20% tax for being Jewish), then by making it illegal for them to own jewelry or land (and confiscating these things from them), and finally by torturing and murdering them by the millions in concentration camps and using their confiscated wealth to largely fund WWII.

The add is intended to be anti-semitic (again, it was posted on a neo-natzi website). It's trying to highlight Hilary's perceived relationship with the Jewish population in the US, her reliance on their money, and her alleged alliance with Israel because of her need to keep her (Jewish) donor base happy, while hinting that those who have that kind of money are corrupt (I.e., the Jewish people based on the GIANT RED STAR OF DAVID put on top of the pile of money). My faith in humanity seems like it might be hitting an all time low.

Shame on Trump. Shame on his team. Sadly, his rhetoric seems to be all about pitting economically stressed Americans against...well, pretty much everyone else, no?

 

[Calliecake]

I recognized this as the Star Of David immediately and I am not Jewish. Trump knew exactly what he was doing.

There is no way this man will ever be good for America. How can the Republican's possibly be supporting this jerk?

 

[Gem Queen]

I don't think there is anything left to say. I think the point has been made. It's kind of like the euro last week and people were insensitive to our PS family over in Europe or England. They are worried about their future and retirement and some people couldn't wait to capitalise on it. I don't know. There comes a time when you just say "wow. How sad we aren't more united."
Oh, well. Maybe this thread will open someone's eyes and realise it is painful and it will never change. I have to say, I'm glad I live in California. We are a little more accepting of race, color and creed.

 

[Matata]

From an employee of The Cheeto's son-in-law. I like how he knocks down all of the trite reasons people used to defend the use of the Star of David.

http://observer.com/2016/07/an-open-letter-to-jared-kushner-from-one-of-your-jewish-employees/

 

[ksinger]

From an employee of The Cheeto's son-in-law. I like how he knocks down all of the trite reasons people used to defend the use of the Star of David.

http://observer.com/2016/07/an-open-letter-to-jared-kushner-from-one-of-your-jewish-employees/

Gads, but those responses were horrible. The hate is breathtaking. Sad that I'm not surprised. The internet really has done huge damage to the social fabric by allowing expression of sentiments that people used to keep under wraps, if for no other reason that they risked social ostracism or outright bodily harm, for saying them out loud. It's different saying stuff like that to people's faces. Now hate feels safe and emboldened as it hides behind perceived anonymity.

One point the author missed though, and it's one I've not read anywhere, my husband pointed it out to me today, is how the VAST majority of sheriff's stars - whether 6 or 5 points, have little balls on the end. Google the image. Once you refresh your memory of what they look like - from our collective mental database of a zillion movies, it's an even bigger raft of BS that it wasn't intended to appeal to anti-semites. It was indeed "a winking promise to this nation’s worst and most hateful individuals."

Sadly, dogwhistle sent and received.

 

[MissGotRocks]

From an employee of The Cheeto's son-in-law. I like how he knocks down all of the trite reasons people used to defend the use of the Star of David.

http://observer.com/2016/07/an-open-letter-to-jared-kushner-from-one-of-your-jewish-employees/

Gads, but those responses were horrible. The hate is breathtaking. Sad that I'm not surprised. The internet really has done huge damage to the social fabric by allowing expression of sentiments that people used to keep under wraps, if for no other reason that they risked social ostracism or outright bodily harm, for saying them out loud. It's different saying stuff like that to people's faces. Now hate feels safe and emboldened as it hides behind perceived anonymity.

One point the author missed though, and it's one I've not read anywhere, my husband pointed it out to me today, is how the VAST majority of sheriff's stars - whether 6 or 5 points, have little balls on the end. Google the image. Once you refresh your memory of what they look like - from our collective mental database of a zillion movies, it's an even bigger raft of BS that it wasn't intended to appeal to anti-semites. It was indeed "a winking promise to this nation’s worst and most hateful individuals."

Sadly, dogwhistle sent and received.

This is so true. And so sad. We now know how lots of our friends and neighbors feel about lots of things too - things that we would probably not have known prior to such a deluge of social media and things, quite frankly, we would be better off not knowing. It can radically change your opinion of people - even close family members. It is so interesting how much we enjoy the world wide web and all of its pluses but the minuses add up pretty quickly too. Even when people post or link on FB, they probably forget about their entire friend list that will read it - and who or if they will offend by their posts.

 

[kenny]

I rather prefer this bold new world.
I don't have to bother with people who suck.
If they feel I suck, they don't have to bother with me.

I think that's better than fluffy small talk with lots of """""friends"""""" who are fake with cardboard smiles.

 

[caf]

If you're Jewish, that is the only thing you see. How come they didn't put a cross instead?

May I add ... If you're Jewish, antisemitic, or neither but informed and paying attention, that is the only thing you see.

I ain't Jewish and it popped right out to me.
But perhaps being in another crapped-upon group makes me notice these things.

Agreed. Didn't mean to imply that only Jews would notice this. Gross no matter who notices it.

 

[Gypsy]

Gypsy, one of those is a cookie cutter likely intended for use during Chanukah, etc. I don't understand your point about orientation. The other is an EIGHT point star, not even close to 6 points.
.

Whoops. Totally right. I was clearly overtired .

 

[Trekkie]

Like others, at first I just saw a star, for emphasis, and I didn't connect the dots between that and the pile of money. Like Gypsy, I'm not Jewish and can be slow on the uptake if the anti-Semitic message has any subtlety at all. However, as soon as the message was explained in this thread, I saw it. As another poster said, the star of David is a very sensitive symbol in history and you have to be very careful. We know, as well, that the star was changed to a circle, and this makes the message seem more suspicious, too. On balance, I have to say that I find it very anti-Semitic, especially when you factor in the money reference, too.

A Jewish friend of mine saw anti-Semitism in the Harry Potter movies, something about the portrayal of the bankers at gringotts being the way Shakespeare described Jewish people, and that it wasn't a coincidence that these characters were also the money-handlers - another Shakespeare stereotype about Jewish people, she said. I can't quite remember her line of reasoning, as the conversation was a while ago, but she felt amazed that no one else noticed that these bankers were portrayed in what she thought was a pretty anti-Semitic way. Did anyone else feel the same? I'm just curious.

ETA: I agree that if you support Trump, you're supporting racism, homophobia, sexism, and all manner of prejudice and bigotry. I suspect the guy basically doesn't like anyone who isn't a white, privileged, straight male. Yes, trekkie, he really is the potential nominee, and there are 300 million people here. Are you sure you want to try and move here??

Until he spends $25mil of the tax payer's money building a palace, I can tolerate him.

The turning point for me would be if he stands up at a political event and sings "Kill the farmer" or "Bring me my machine gun" (popular struggle song aimed at rousing support for killing white people). Our president has done both.

 

[AGBF]

From an employee of The Cheeto's son-in-law. I like how he knocks down all of the trite reasons people used to defend the use of the Star of David.

http://observer.com/2016/07/an-open-letter-to-jared-kushner-from-one-of-your-jewish-employees/

Once again you have found a truly wonderful article, Matata. I don't know how you do it. Thank you for sharing. (I was away, so I am only now catching up on threads.)

I am referring to this one: http://observer.com/2016/07/an-open-letter-to-jared-kushner-from-one-of-your-jewish-employees/

I really hope everybody reads it.

Deb