is this a wrong observation? I am new here.

[Kurt_3_0_1]

I am a stonesetter and broker here in Mobile although I havent been at it long I do have some experience. I was looking at diamonds on here two days ago. I found a marquise cut half ct for under a $1000 and whiteflash had the best price. however when I clicked on thier website the price listed there on this stone was over $1200. Still I wanted the stone for a set im putting together. So I called and spoke with someone named Tracey, she tells me she wil check on the stone for me and let me know and when I asked about the price she tells me that the under a $1000 price is if I pay by bank wire. No problem I assure her I would. the next day I get an Email from Tracey telling me that my stone in available to please call her, so I do. she then tells me it is eye clear and is a good looking rock. so I said good I will take it she says great and tells me that they can do mea favor and discount it and that the final price is going to be $1183. Now all of you who can do math can see this price is $200 higher than what was quoted on pricescope. So I ask what gives and she tells me that the stone I had inquired about they wouldnt let her sell becasue the cut grades of depth and table were not good enough and that she had found me a better one. Then she goes on to state that she guesses she could sell it to me but I would have to waie any return or store buy back policy.

So thats the scenario, now if we may study this for a moment. they advertised a diamond that they new they couldnt sell according to thier own store policies because the cut grade was inferior but they gave it a gd for cut. Then they offered me one of greater value they said and lowered the price to a discounted one that was still $200 more than advertised.. oooohhhh thank you whiteflash.com.

This appears to me to be a classic bait and switch tactic. so I look again today there is a marquise cut on there for 548 .5ct medium quality from white flash so I click on it and guess what it is over 840 on thier website. is this another set up for another bait and switch?

it is my understanding that this websote was set up and dedicated to the promotion and fair practice and trustworthy business transaction yet it seems to me that right here in the backyard of that goal is a bait switching shiester trying to take advantage of what he thinks are a bunch of dumb buyers again. Will they ever learn to just be honest with us?

I did make it simple for them I asked for future reference of any business that I may do with them if they were or were not able to sell me the diamonds that they list on here at the price they list them in accord with there stores policies on a consistent basis. I even made it a yes or no question for them. they have has of this posting refused to answer but they did take the time to email me back without the answer and try to sell me the other diamond still

In case anyone thinks I am making this up or exagerating any of this whatsoever I have all correspondance email to back up my claim.

 

[MWG]

Hi Kurt,

Call Whiteflash and ask to speak to Lesley Harris. She will get things straightened out. In fact call her right now!!!

Good Luck and Tell us how it comes out.

I love my ACA
MWG

 

[kcoursolle]

Maybe you have to ask for the pricescope discount???

 

[Eva17]

I was told there is only a PS discount if you wire the money.

 

[enbcfsobe]

First of all, "sheister" is a racial/ethnic slur.

Second, I am pretty sure that the WF "grading" for the stones that are not on site is caveated on their website (eg: some of the EGL certed RBs have 3 or 4 stars but specify that this is not based on personal observation).

Third, while I have never made a purchase from WF, and I do think that this forum tends to be a bit overprotective of them, the fact that they did not answer your email (which was attempting to solicit business referrals from them???) the same day seems like a tenuous basis to go public with what are very serious allegations of fraud.

I hope you contact them directly by telephone to work out whatever the problem seems to be.

 

[surfgirl]

I also do not appreciate the "scheister" comment. And just because someone hasn''t returned and email within a day is no means to come on a website and ream the vendor. Mind you, I''ve also bought nothing from any online vendors and I agree that people around here seem to be a bit too protective of their preferred vendors but that said, I think it''s more appropriate to CALL them yourself and ask to discuss the issue with a manager. After you''ve made every attempt to resolve the situation, THEN I think it''s okay to make such a post but to me, it doesn''t seem like you''ve made any real effort to get to the bottom of the issue. And since you''re not out any money, what''s the big deal?

 

[JohnQuixote]

 

[Horse to Harley]

#1 If you were a stone setter wouldn''t you have your own source for diamonds and other products??? So could it be possibly that you are the one not representing yourself as whom you are? Maybe you are trying to get a better price by saying you are in the industry? Or possibly you are a competitor who has lost customers to WF and are now trying to discredit them?
If that is not correct then you should be thankful to the great people at Whiteflash for looking out for you and being sure you get a good product. Whiteflash has an awesome reputation here and sells Diamonds all over the world, this would not be possible if they were "scammers" or "Shysters". With the Internet, that would spread faster than the plague and they would be out of business or hurting for sure. Also I think if they were going to rip off someone I doubt very much they would mess with a $1000 diamond when they sell many everyday worth many times the one you were looking at, but yet they still take the time to make sure it meets their standards and take the time to contact you and try and make you happy, most would just blow you off!
As a Happy Whiteflash customer I can tell you I have gotten a great deal over anything I could find locally and was treated fairly, patiently, with respect and never pressured to buy anything. So if you are not happy then don''t come here and slam anyone, just go purchase an inferior product from someone who is truly going to rip you off then have fun trying to get your money back.

Good Luck!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 6/13/2007 5:58:18 PM
Author:Kurt_3_0_1

I did make it simple for them I asked for future reference of any business that I may do with them if they were or were not able to sell me the diamonds that they list on here at the price they list them in accord with there stores policies on a consistent basis. I even made it a yes or no question for them. they have has of this posting refused to answer but they did take the time to email me back without the answer and try to sell me the other diamond still

Kurt,

There may be some miscommunication occuring. We received your email at 1:30 CST today. I answered two hours later, with content identical to my post above, because Traci forwarded your email to me. Prior to that Traci had emailed you, requesting that you call in, and when she got no response she tried ringing you. Communication is very important to us. If you did not receive our emails or calls please feel free to phone us.

 

[neatfreak]

Honestly? It sounds like you failed to read their website including their clear description of their buyback/tradein policies coupled with a slight misunderstanding.

All they were trying to do was let you know that the stone you requested didn''t meet their standards and thus was NOT eligible for their upgrade policy. I don''t think that is unreasonable at all personally especially when MOST vendors only apply their upgrade/trade in policies to certain stones.

Also, you need to specifically ask for the PS discount when you call vendors. The prices listed here on PS are ONLY for PS members, which is why when you click through to their website you see a different price. It''s not bait and switch, you just need to read a little closer...

While I actually like to hear all stories regarding vendors here, positive or not, I certainly don''t think this is the right situation to be defaming WF''s name.

And I also don''t appreciate the sheister comment.

 

[Independent Gal]

Sorry for the thread jack, but I didn''t know ''scheister'' was a racial slur. I was under the impression it was an everyday Yiddish word derived from German that means someone who''s dishonest in their business practices (regardless, I thought, of group membership).

Come to think of it, I suppose if you anglicized it as ''Shyster'' that could be offensive if you thought it was derived from ''Shylock''??? I checked the OED which has the origins of words and it didn''t seem to make that connection. Not that it gets everything.

If it''s now considered a slur I''ll have to let the Yiddish speakers of my acquaintance know! And I will now expunge it from my vocabulary, just in case.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 6/13/2007 7:53:44 PM
Author: Independent Gal
Sorry for the thread jack, but I didn''t know ''scheister'' was a racial slur. I was under the impression it was an everyday Yiddish word derived from German that means someone who''s dishonest in their business practices (regardless, I thought, of group membership).


Come to think of it, I suppose if you anglicized it as ''Shyster'' that could be offensive if you thought it was derived from ''Shylock''??? I checked the OED which has the origins of words and it didn''t seem to make that connection. Not that it gets everything.


If it''s now considered a slur I''ll have to let the Yiddish speakers of my acquaintance know! And I will now expunge it from my vocabulary, just in case.

I personally don''t know if it''s a slur per se, but being Jewish, to ME it implies that JEWS are dishonest. I think the origins are not offensive, but current usage has made it offensive. Just my perception though...

 

[surfgirl]

I have to ditto neatfreak 100%. Same situation, same take on that phrase.

 

[enbcfsobe]

Thritto. Especially in an industry (diamonds) that many people perceive to be "controlled" by Jews. While its origins can apparently be traced to both a german word meaning ''dishonest'' and the Shakespearean reference to Shylock, it is generally used to refer to Jews, particularly lawyers or other professionals that are perceived as dishonest. While some yiddish speakers may use it, that doesn''t make it any better.

 

[Independent Gal]

I feel so naiiiive! I had never heard it applied to Jews specifically, only applied by Jews to dishonest people in general - not specifically to Jewish dishonest people. Well, on pricescope, learn something everyday!

It''s amazing how many people use the word ''gyped'' or ''jipped'' without realizing it''s a racial slur either, or ''going dutch''.

 

[Kaleigh]

It''s offensive and most insulting IMHO.

 

[Independent Gal]

Well, I've never used the word myself (that I recall), but I've certainly heard it used (though only, so far as I can recall, by Jewish acquaintances and friends which is I guess what lead me astray about the offensive aspect of its meaning). Next time I will point this out! I may have been missing whole overtones of conversations. Makes me wonder what else I might be missing, slang-wise, not being native to America. I hope I haven't inadvertantly offended anyone since I've been here!

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 6/13/2007 7:53:44 PM
Author: Independent Gal
Sorry for the thread jack, but I didn''t know ''scheister'' was a racial slur. I was under the impression it was an everyday Yiddish word derived from German that means someone who''s dishonest in their business practices (regardless, I thought, of group membership).

Come to think of it, I suppose if you anglicized it as ''Shyster'' that could be offensive if you thought it was derived from ''Shylock''??? I checked the OED which has the origins of words and it didn''t seem to make that connection. Not that it gets everything.

If it''s now considered a slur I''ll have to let the Yiddish speakers of my acquaintance know! And I will now expunge it from my vocabulary, just in case.

INDY I BIG PUFFY HEART LOVE YOU. I am so happy I am not the only OED nerd on here!!! Oops. Nerd is a slur. Sorry!!

And I too, can''t keep track of what''s a slur or un pc comment today and what isn''t.

Although I know in the NY/NJ area shyster is a slur... anti-semetic. Interesting... cause it comes from Yiddish in the first place.

 

[Independent Gal]

Yay OED nerds!

I knew it was a slur in the sense of a mean thing to say about a person, but I just didn''t realize it was ''ethnicity-specific''.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 6/13/2007 10:15:08 PM
Author: Independent Gal
Yay OED nerds!


I knew it was a slur in the sense of a mean thing to say about a person, but I just didn''t realize it was ''ethnicity-specific''.

Me neither-I can''t say I''ve ever used it myself, but it''s good to know it''s considered offensive nonetheless!

As for the OP, I hope he will actually speak to WF to get his issue with them resolved.

 

[enbcfsobe]

Don''t feel bad. Partly because of the culture of using slurs against our own races/ethnicities within our communities, it does become hard for some people to distinguish what is and is not considered an insult. There are whole journal articles devoted to this problem, so I won''t go into it.

Date: 6/13/2007 9:55:30 PM
Author: Independent Gal
I feel so naiiiive! I had never heard it applied to Jews specifically, only applied by Jews to dishonest people in general - not specifically to Jewish dishonest people. Well, on pricescope, learn something everyday!

It''s amazing how many people use the word ''gyped'' or ''jipped'' without realizing it''s a racial slur either, or ''going dutch''.

This one isn''t something that I''d expect everyone to realize is insulting to Jews particularly, but its also not something that I have ever heard other than in that way (the very very few times I''ve even heard it). That''s why I didn''t (virtually) scream and yell and jump up and down at ths guy over it -- I just pointed it out. I don''t expect everyone to know that it is insulting to a specific group, but, particularly in this context of the diamond industry and the accusations this guy was throwing around, I thought it should be raised. I''m not some pc princess, but when I do find out that a word originated from a racial insult, I really do try not to use it in conversation.

 

[gailrmv]

Well, I have never even heard that word used before! Good, now I know it is offensive and I can avoid it!

Well, it sounds like WF is doing a good job of resolving the issue, but I agree with one thing the OP said, which is that it is kind of confusing when you click on a diamond from the PS link and it has a certain price, then you click on it from WF and it is SIGNIFICANTLY higher (I''m not talking 5% but much more.) I always wondered what the deal was there. It did not seem to affect their in house stones. It sounds like maybe a programming issue that John alluded to.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 6/14/2007 12:12:55 AM
Author: gailrmv
Well, I have never even heard that word used before! Good, now I know it is offensive and I can avoid it!

Well, it sounds like WF is doing a good job of resolving the issue, but I agree with one thing the OP said, which is that it is kind of confusing when you click on a diamond from the PS link and it has a certain price, then you click on it from WF and it is SIGNIFICANTLY higher (I''m not talking 5% but much more.) I always wondered what the deal was there. It did not seem to affect their in house stones. It sounds like maybe a programming issue that John alluded to.

I noticed that too, but not w/just WF. . . the other vendors too. I think it is weird.

 

[luckystar112]

lol...I always thought sheister was something a really old man would say. Old slang or something.

Or maybe something you''d jokingly say to your dog when you find him with half of your hamburger in his mouth.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 6/13/2007 10:15:08 PM
Author: Independent Gal
Yay OED nerds!


I knew it was a slur in the sense of a mean thing to say about a person, but I just didn''t realize it was ''ethnicity-specific''.

I honestly wouldn''t have known either if I didn''t like the NY/NJ area. YAY OED nerds. I can actually READ the OED for recreational purposes it''s so interesting.

 

[Kurt_3_0_1]

thank you all for your great comments and suggestions, If I may address the most important issue that has come up for me here in this thread it will be to sincerley apoligize to anyone who was offended by my use of the word Schiester. In my ignorance I used it to describe what I beleive to be someone who would engage in shady business practices and had no idea what so ever that it was even remotley connected to any race or ethnicity. So to all that took offense please forgive my ignorance. Secondly someone questioned my credentials as a stone setter and asked why didnt I have my own supplier for diamonds. Well honestly the prices here are the best you will find. I cant even get pawn shops to sell them to me this cheap most of the time. LOL in fact just to give you a little scenario that I though was pretty funny. There was an add in the paper today for a diamond giving the specs on color and clarity a 1.75 ct round and he was a private seller someone divorced maybe or egagement was off I am not sure at any rate he was no dealer just an average guy you know. He wanted $10,000 based on his appraisal of over 12k. I looked up one on here with matching specs eye clean and found it for $5600. I beleive there are very good vendors here and have used two of them whiteflash would have been my third. White flash always has the greatest price disparity between what they list here and what is on thier site of any other vendor here in fact most have the same price on thier site that they list here. I like this idea the one price it keeps things easy and this whole we wont sell you the one we have advertised and honor our store policy although we did advertise it nudge nudge..... we will sell this more expensive one. It all looked like a classic bait and switch and I am quite mistrusting and skeptical which I find keeps me safe so I can live with it. $200 price difference may not bea big deal to most people and it isnt alot of money but the thing is on a ring like this for a young couple who cant afford any better I only make $200 profit anyway so there goes my money and I do this job for free. now Im nice but I also like to make money while being nice. I know about the cuts the depths the tables and I include this into my search criteria when looking for a diamond. I know what Im looking for and all I expect is that someone is going to sell me what they say they can sell me and do it like they say they can do it. thats all if they have a buy back policy it should apply to what they are advertising. If you have a return policy it should apply to what your selling period. I am a simple guy and I like things simple. do what your suppose to do and sell me what you say you can sell me it is no more complicated then that. dont, and I wont deal with you. and I will also let others know how things went when I dealt with you. sounds easy enough right?

 

[Horse to Harley]

Yup pretty easy if you understand but you clearly don''t!

You are looking at a stone that is listed by several dealers so that means it''s a stone that a broker has, you go to the cheapest guy want him to buy it, ship it, guarantee it, and give you a buy back...well there goes his profit. If you buy a diamond that only WF has then no problem, but if you buy a broker diamond then you take the risk. That to me is simple. You can''t expect them to guarantee a diamond they have never seen. Also you will find that WF is one of the few that has their own stock, that meets their standards and they back them to the hilt. If this "young couple" are so tight on money why don''t you do them a favor send them to Whiteflash so they can save the $200 you are charging them to mount a diamond when Whiteflash will do it for free if the buy both the diamond and mounting from them. Be that nice guy you talk of and give this young couple a break and give them WF''s toll free number.
I''m thinking that the people who are being Shiestered here are the young couple you are dealing with, $200 to mount an diamond valued under $1000 is a total rip-off especially since most jewelers here will do it free! So who is the one taking "advantage of what he thinks are a bunch of dumb buyers"?

 

[yellowsparkles]

Date: 6/14/2007 2:01:23 AM
Author: Horse to Harley

Yup pretty easy if you understand but you clearly don''t!

You are looking at a stone that is listed by several dealers so that means it''s a stone that a broker has, you go to the cheapest guy want him to buy it, ship it, guarantee it, and give you a buy back...well there goes his profit. If you buy a diamond that only WF has then no problem, but if you buy a broker diamond then you take the risk. That to me is simple. You can''t expect them to guarantee a diamond they have never seen. Also you will find that WF is one of the few that has their own stock, that meets their standards and they back them to the hilt. If this ''young couple'' are so tight on money why don''t you do them a favor send them to Whiteflash so they can save the $200 you are charging them to mount a diamond when Whiteflash will do it for free if the buy both the diamond and mounting from them. Be that nice guy you talk of and give this young couple a break and give them WF''s toll free number.
I''m thinking that the people who are being Shiestered here are the young couple you are dealing with, $200 to mount an diamond valued under $1000 is a total rip-off especially since most jewelers here will do it free! So who is the one taking ''advantage of what he thinks are a bunch of dumb buyers''?

Why are you ganging up on this guy?

I bought earrings from Whiteflash in early May. I noticed the same thing about prices soon after that. I just wanted to see what similiar stones (for a friend who wanted earrings) were going for and I looked on the pricescope search engine. When I clicked the price the price listed on the company''s website was much differenct. I believe they all were (James Allen, GOG, etc). Whiteflash''s prices were almost double (maybe not double, but significantly higher). I asked Leslie about it and she just said that the price on the Pricescope page was the pricescope price/wire discount. I believed her, but the price difference seemed much more than a 5% discount. It seemed all the stones I were looking at were not inhouse stones but were all AGS or GIA certified. Leslie said if I am interested in any, let her know and she will call them in.

It seems that in this case there was a big communication error. It should have been very clear from Traci that the stone was a different stone. Perhaps it was - I am not to say. I trust Whiteflash and would continue to buy from them. As a consumer, i think it is important to ask lots of questions.

 

[Kurt_3_0_1]

Horse to Harley I am not going to get into it with you. I am new here and clearly you have alegiance to this company either by affiliation or dealings with them it is not for me to say either way. I am not the only one here clearly who has noticed the price disparity and the bait and switch. Now as far as the young couple goes I dont care whether I mount the ring or if whiteflash mounts the ring, if they want the same mount that WF offers then I will have WF mount it. I buy it at a certain price and then sell it and make a profit such is business. So what is the difference between myself and Zales? I am not greedy and I dont mark up to double the price that I buy the merchandise for. Like I said I am a nice guy but people dont change my oil for free so I dont work for free either. but I will not completley fleece someone like these big companies do. I can tell you this though. In my business I advertise only what I can sell according to the standards and poicies I have for my business. I dont advertise one thing at a lower price to draw someone in and then say I cant sell that to them but I can sell a more expensive one and talk them into wanting that one instead. We are all adults here and most of us intelligent enough to know when numbers dont match. I will sell you what I say I can sell you I can back it up with what I say I can back it up with and I can get it to you at the price I said I could. agian easy moral and ethical business. it is what to my understanding this site was created to promote. it is how I deal with people and it is how I feel I should be dealt with. I am sure everyone here including you would expect to recieve the same fair ethical and honest treatment if you were involved and not just here to comment.

 

[strmrdr]

Ask anyone around here and they will tell ya that Iv smacked WF(and many other vendors) around when they had it coming that said....

Let me see if I got this strait...
1: there was and maybe is some kind of pricing error on WF website <--- sux but It happens with different vendors once in the while.

2: the stone you asked about wont meet the WF requirements for trade in/up. The sales rep offered a different stone for $200 more and there was maybe a communication issue. <-- sux but communication issues happen.

3: you quoted your client a price before you had a the stone reserved. <-- Thats just stupid... umm PC.. not swift? not smart? limited intelligence? military intelligence? which is the right PC term.....

4: know what you mean about wholesale prices being more than retail for the same thing when your a small vendor <--- ran into it all the time in the computer bizz.

5: "sheister" is a racial slur

not in my area it isn''t considered to be so. On of my computer clients is a sweet older Jewish couple and they use it all the time as do others. (is it still pc to call nice people sweet? is older pc? blah!)

6: finally bait and switch? I don''t see it.