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Is this a good stone?!

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Nicrez

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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The fiancee-to-be and I went to see some stones in the Diamond District (NYC), and we saw one that really impressed us both. Playing good cop/bad cop, I found it hard to play bad cop with this lovely stone. I have seen the AGA Radiant/Emerald charts on percentages, but I have no idea how to read them properly...Some help? Here are the specs from the GIA cert we saw. (He wouldn''t give us a copy, though!)
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Radiant
1.80 ct
Clarity: VS1
Color: D
7.25 x 6.77 x 4.41
(I like very square stones only!!)
Depth: 65.1
Table: 77
Polish: VG
Sym: VG

In this VS1, the eye was clean, and the only inclusion was on the side, barely visible crystal, and it had three small extra facets. What is an average price for this, considering the facets?

Also, when shopping around, people asked how much off of Rap sheet prices I was asking. What is a standard in the DD in NYC? Anyone know? What is the standard anywhere else but NYC?

Also, someone said that some people who spoke to us heard that we seemed to really know what we wanted and for that reason, didn''t want to sell to us, because we knew our prices. I quoted the rap sheet price per carat as the woman mentioned the color and clarity. Oops!
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We were prepared, and I am told that some jewelers don''t like that because they can''t make a profit from you and hold out on their premium stones, (like we want), so someone else can pay a higher price on it. Is this true in anyone''s opinion? Help...
 
There are a few confusing things about the stone:

#1) That is not square at all: if you like square stones, than perfect squares are out there and not such a rarity at all.

#2) The table is huge, and for this matter that crown should be rather flat too. This means that on side view the diamond looks almost like a pyramid and the flat face of it would just sink under the tips of the prongs. If this look does not bother you, all if fine. Also, a large table is a very good indicator of lost sparkle. Not that ECs are supposed to glitter as a round diamond, but they can get darn close
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#3) Extra facets... how any are there? They are not an indicator of a great cut, but do not commend a discount either (since so few buyers would talk about them, I guess, but could be other reasons too) I would probably not consider them a detraction in a fancy color, but this is not that.

#4) A "slightly visible crystal" in a VS1? Are you sure? Unless you are talking about what you were seeing under 30X, I am quite amazed. VS1-type characteristics are TINY and should be IMPOSSIBLE to see with the eye and hard indeed for someone holding a 10X loupe for the first time. Are you sure that was the stone the cert was about? I could be wrong, since some have real talent at this detail-oriented work (which I don't), but if you saw that spot without magnification chances are you were holding an SI stone.

Oh well... this is about all I can say about the stone given the specs. There is one word more about haggling. I am Romanian and have done a bit of jewelry shopping in rather crazy places, but NY is truly replete with haggling challenges! If you lay down all your info and knowledge at once, you will not be shown decent merchandise. That you have been actually told this, shows that you were in NY not Morocco. Unfortunately, this is a rule at all levels of the trade. *They* have the stones, and this is a position of power one has to acknowledge. I have no theory for how to solve this, but one approach could be to ask for the best (better than you are actually looking for, such as a D-E-VVS) upfront, then question the price for a discount. This should demonstrate that you do have the buying power and spending will, so the seller would show more stones, of slightly lesser “paper” quality (and that's what you really want) on which you can again bargain. Only if and when the deal looks good you may want to actually confess what is the lowest quality you would accept. This may work or not, I just thought it would be funny to share the tactics... One thing I know: if you make the seller believe you are ready to spend in his store and could be duped, this is a great basis for negotiation. Truth and sincerity are definitely not
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As a rule of thumb: the only valuable info is what you know and the oponent does not know you do!

This is one reason why those online joint listins of stones from different sellers are such a blessing. This business model makes sellers disclose prices and inventory without the hard haggling work.

Hope this helps a bit...
 
The tiny crystal was only detected under a 10X loupe that my very detailed BF saw. I noticed the color was so white, it seemed alomst to have a slightl blue florescence, but I was wrong. It was just that every other stone we have been show was G or F or H...It was quite white.

Also, the stone seems to be cut in such a way that although it is rectangular, it can not even be detected. Also if it is slightly rectangular, I was told to mount it East to West and the stone "seems" larger than it really may be.

The depth and table did bother me. I know the cut is not most idea. It did sparkle quite a bit, and as for fire, I am impressed with it, but sadly, i would rather the sparkle with a shallower pavillion. I can't seem to find anyone who sells quality radiants, and wondering if anyone knows if Mr. Grossbard's stone on The Radiant Cut.com are cut to exaqcting standards, and if there is a premium over equally cut generic stones?

Valeria101, I am half Romanian as well, no when it comes to negotiating, I am taught by the best, my Romanian dad! Only thing is, this is a foreign price market for me. I have equipped myself as well as I could SO FAR, but there is always so much more to know! Your help is so appreciated! Thanks so much!!
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He he!
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Glad to meet you !!!

No, I world not really buy the suggestion that placing an off-square stone E-W is doing any good at making it look square. But yes, these slight differences are rather illusive: and what you see is the most important.

About the Grossbard rads, I guess there is a premium, but I am not the best person to ask since I am not their customer. Someone on PS is though... posting on a thread about "true radiants" a couple of months ago.
 
Valeria101, HELP! Anyone know what to do when you know the Jeweler's charging too much for the SAME stone on the internet?

There are two stones that seem pretty good, which is better?:

1.82 ct
F color
VS1 Clarity
69% Depth
70% Table
GIA Cert
m- girdle
no culet
gd Symmetry
gd Polish
no Floresc
7.15 x 6.52 x 4.50
$11,720

and then stone 2:

1.8 ct
D color
VS1 Clarity
65.10% Depth
77% Table
GIA Cert
stk Girdle
no Culet
vg Symmetry
vg Polish
no Floresc
7.25 x 6.77 x 4.41
$12,593

Also, this last one...we saw THE SAME stone at a jeweler's and they wanted 15% MORE ($14,800) for this stone. He didn't seem very easy going, and and almost irritated that we didn't buy it immediately. Should I bypass him entirely or try to deal...what would be the best way to let him know we know this stone is worth less on the net? To the eye it was lovely, but not in perfect proportions, as you can see...are there better stones out there?
 
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On 1/27/2004 10:42:12 AM Nicrez wrote:

Valeria101, HELP! Anyone know what to do when you know the Jeweler's charging too much for the SAME stone on the internet?

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Buy online? If you saw it and loved it, you may find that asking for the extra data needed to judge light return may be overkill. The price difference is not unusual at all - and I bet this kind of price difference will last for as long as some would hesitate to buy online. I think you shouldn't, of course.

About the propostions of the stones... well, I am not overwhelmed by perfection in neither. Color and clarity are better in the second, of course, but both are deep cuts (enough to get them off the range known for potential great optics) and the rest of details are unknown. The HUGE table makes great light return extremenly unlikely. If you are at all concerned about all these issues of cut quality, these two diamonds never been there. If the "look" of the stone is pleasing to you though, and you know that whatever PS is touting as great cut is not all that great for you, why not! Did you ever get to see an ideal cut?
 
Well I went to see that same stone and three others today. I don't think I have EVER seen an ideally cut stone, and I don't even think they exist. I don't know how much knowledge is overkill, and how much is helpful. That last DVS1 1.8 stone I saw looked like a 2, and wasn't PERFECTLY quare, but it had the most brilliant white sparkle to it... Also, the "better cut stone I saw had a darker look to it, probably because it's pavillion was deeper. Here's the stats on the other two stones:

Stone 2
F VVS1 2.01
6.95 x 6.81 x 4.85
D= 71.2
T= 71%
Gir= Thin to sltly thick
No Culet
P= Very good
Sym= very good
Fl= none

Stone 3
F VS1 2.06 Ct
7.22 x 7.06 x 5.16
D= 73.1
T= 74
Gird= Ex thin /Thick
no culet
P= very good
sym=very good
Fl= Faint

This one was cut with an x-like star burst sort of pattern on it with an emerald cut on the pavillion, so it was like a princess on the bottom and a radiant on top. The sparkle was OK, the color was a brighter F (could be the FLor.) but somehow the D was brightest and whitest in it's BAD proporations...

What would be some good price ranges for these stones and which would the better buy be?
 
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