Is this a better stone?

[zenit77]

This is a follow up to my last thread titled "Decision time! Need your help." (https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/decision-time-need-your-help.69015/)

I found a stone on WF almost identical to the one I am looking to buy from David S on 47th street.

Please help me decide which is a better deal. All help is greatly appreciated!!!

Stone #1
Vendor: WF
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-395204.htm#

1.535 ct F SI1 Round Ideal Cut

. Report: AGS
. Shape: Round Ideal Cut
. Carat: 1.535
. Depth %: 62.3
. Table %: 56.5
. Crown Angle: 34.5
. Crown %: 14.9
. Star : 51
. Pavilion Angle: 41
. Pavilion %: 43.4
. Lower Girdle %: 79
. Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted
. Measurements: 7.33-7.39X4.59
. Polish: Excellent
. Symmetry: Excellent
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

Cost: $11,780

Stone#2:
Vendor: David S Diamonds (47th Street, NYC)
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/decision-time-need-your-help.69015/



Round Brilliant (Canadian Diamond)
7.25 - 7.29 * 4.59
AGS Grading Report
CW: 1.506
Color: F
Clarity: SI1
Cut: AGS Ideal 0
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Proportions: Ideal
Depth %: 63.2%
Table: 54%
Crown angle: 34.9
Pavilion angle: 40.8

Cost: $11,760

 

[FireGoddess]

Is the WF stone eyeclean?

If so, I'd go for that one - the dimensions are slightly bigger, and the price difference is negligible. It also has a nice IS, and there is no IS on the other stone to compare it to. They are very similar in terms of specs, so I'm basing it on the fact that the WF stone faces up slightly bigger.

 

[gontama]

Date: 9/17/2007 2:22:39 PM
Author:zenit77
This is a follow up to my last thread titled 'Decision time! Need your help.' (https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/decision-time-need-your-help.69015/)

I found a stone on WF almost identical to the one I am looking to buy from David S on 47th street.

Please help me decide which is a better deal. All help is greatly appreciated!!!

Stone #1
Vendor: WF
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-395204.htm#

1.535 ct F SI1 Round Ideal Cut

. Report: AGS
. Shape: Round Ideal Cut
. Carat: 1.535
. Depth %: 62.3
. Table %: 56.5
. Crown Angle: 34.5
. Crown %: 14.9
. Star : 51
. Pavilion Angle: 41
. Pavilion %: 43.4
. Lower Girdle %: 79
. Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted
. Measurements: 7.33-7.39X4.59
. Polish: Excellent
. Symmetry: Excellent
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

Cost: $11,780

Stone#2:
Vendor: David S Diamonds (47th Street, NYC)
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/decision-time-need-your-help.69015/





Round Brilliant (Canadian Diamond)
7.25 - 7.29 * 4.59
AGS Grading Report
CW: 1.506
Color: F
Clarity: SI1
Cut: AGS Ideal 0
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Proportions: Ideal
Depth %: 63.2%
Table: 54%
Crown angle: 34.9
Pavilion angle: 40.8

Cost: $11,760

The WF ES is better not only in tems of the measured diameter (7.36 vs 7.27) but spead / ct. (6.38 mm/ct vs 6.34 mm/ct). Although neither has the spread I would normally want (6.4mm/ct -> 7.32-7.33mm for a 1.5ct), I realize it is not easy to find an eye-clean F color diamond with this size at this price.

What I would do is to compare the 2 diamonds in person. WF is a very well recognized vendor here. They will tell you as much as you want/need. You can also ask what has made this diamond an ES rather than an ACA. With excellent polish and symmetry, it might be because of light performance (though unlikely) or it might be lack of stringent precision an ACA commands; Green on a few ugfs in ASET are not what you normally see in ACA elites. At least I do not recall. You can then compare the two to make the final decision.

I understand you prefer colorless (F) diamonds. I respect that, because I love the D and E colors. F, G, H, and probably I color diamonds can face up very bright and white. I know because I finally chose G after having owned / seen / compared D, E, F, G, H diamonds. But what F/G/H do not necessarily seem to have is something "icy" which IMO only D and E have, espcially with this size (1.5ct).

With all due respect to your color preference, may I ask you if you could drop the color to at least G. It is not easy to see the difference between F and G, though often possible from the profile.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pupper]

just wanted to mention, if you pay with a bank wire, i believe you get a 2.5% PS discount on an Expert Selection stone so it'd actually come out to $11485 for WF.

ETA: plus you get all WF's perks/guarantees when you buy from them (LINKY

 

[zenit77]

I have GemEx report for the stone #2 (from David S), which shows the following:

White Light: High
Color Light: Very High
Scintillation: Very High

I also looked at the stone with IS, and it has near perfect H&As.

 

[zenit77]

Date: 9/17/2007 5:34:29 PM
Author: gontama


With all due respect to your color preference, may I ask you if you could drop the color to at least G. It is not easy to see the difference between F and G, though often possible from the profile.

Hope this helps.

I am with you on that, but nothing below F is expected from me

I am going to call WF to get more info on the their stone.

 

[gontama]

Date: 9/17/2007 8:58:58 PM
Author: zenit77

Date: 9/17/2007 5:34:29 PM
Author: gontama


With all due respect to your color preference, may I ask you if you could drop the color to at least G. It is not easy to see the difference between F and G, though often possible from the profile.

Hope this helps.

I am with you on that, but nothing below F is expected from me

I am going to call WF to get more info on the their stone.

Zenit - I like that. I would suggest you to compare the two by yourself and possibly with an independent appraiser. If you can post the IS photo and the BS images, I think many can comment on that. Otherwise, the only way I can think of is to actually look at the two diamonds. it is not appropriate to compare the diamonds with different type of information from two sources. Good Luck.

 

[zenit77]

gontama - what do you think of this stone?

GIA - Round Brilliant
7.32 - 7.41 * 4.55 mm

1.54 E SI1
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Flour: None

Table: 57%
TDeapth: 61.8%
Crown Angle: 35.0
Pavilion: 40.6
Cullet: None
Girdle: Medium - slightly thick (faceted)

$12,300 (Vendor - dealer)

 

[gontama]

Date: 9/18/2007 12:20:20 PM
Author: zenit77
gontama - what do you think of this stone?

GIA - Round Brilliant
7.32 - 7.41 * 4.55 mm

1.54 E SI1
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Flour: None

Table: 57%
TDeapth: 61.8%
Crown Angle: 35.0
Pavilion: 40.6
Cullet: None
Girdle: Medium - slightly thick (faceted)

$12,300 (Vendor - dealer)

Color is better of course. Clarity is the same as others. C/P/T combo looks good to me. Slightly thick girdle holds some weight but the spread is nearly identical to WF ES you listed above. Like VG polish, VG symmetry is the same as Ex to the naked eye. The diameter varience is slightly larger, but
If I were you, I would check the optical symmetry. Lab report provides little in this repsect. Look at the diamond with IS/HA viewer as well as with your eyes. 3D sarin data would be greatly helpful as well if you can ask the "dealer".

While I would like to see a little less diameter varience, this can be a very nice diamond depending on the rest of the data not shown here. You are paying extra for the E color. That''s is fine and is what I would also do, but only if the cut is at the same level, which I cannot tell with the data shown. What happened to the other diamonds?

 

[gontama]

Date: 9/18/2007 3:16:31 PM
Author: gontama

Date: 9/18/2007 12:20:20 PM
Author: zenit77
gontama - what do you think of this stone?

GIA - Round Brilliant
7.32 - 7.41 * 4.55 mm

1.54 E SI1
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Flour: None

Table: 57%
TDeapth: 61.8%
Crown Angle: 35.0
Pavilion: 40.6
Cullet: None
Girdle: Medium - slightly thick (faceted)

$12,300 (Vendor - dealer)

Color is better of course. Clarity is the same as others. C/P/T combo looks good to me. Slightly thick girdle holds some weight but the spread is nearly identical to WF ES you listed above. Like VG polish, VG symmetry is the same as Ex to the naked eye. The diameter varience is slightly larger, but <0.1mm is mostly not an issue as far as I know.

If I were you, I would check the optical symmetry. Lab report provides little in this repsect. Look at the diamond with IS/HA viewer as well as with your eyes. 3D sarin data would be greatly helpful as well if you can ask the ''dealer''.

While I would like to see a little less diameter varience, this can be a very nice diamond depending on the rest of the data not shown here. You are paying extra for the E color. That''s is fine and is what I would also do, but only if the cut is at the same level, which I cannot tell with the data shown. What happened to the other diamonds?

The report is from GIA. C/P angles are rounded. They can be either 34.75/40.50 or 35.25/40.70. They may not be dramatically different, but I guess you will see some difference in appearance. You would want/need Sarin. Can you ask? Or you better look at the diamond. Bottom line - if I were in your position in terms of preference for color and size, and the budget, I would not exclude this diamond.

 

[zenit77]

I am still considering the other stones, and made $1k deposit for the stone from David S (he said it was refundable), but 63.2% TD really bothers me now

I am starting to like the E color stone a lot more now (thanks to your analysis), but the guy who is selling it is a little shady. I had a meeting with him on 47th street (one of the upper floors), but all he had was just the stone and a copy of the GIA report (which he reluctantly released to my possession). I asked him to take another close at the stone, but this time I am going to bring the IS tool with me, since he never heard of it before.

 

[gontama]

Date: 9/18/2007 3:55:39 PM
Author: zenit77
I am still considering the other stones, and made $1k deposit for the stone from David S (he said it was refundable), but 63.2% TD really bothers me now

I am starting to like the E color stone a lot more now (thanks to your analysis), but the guy who is selling it is a little shady. I had a meeting with him on 47th street (one of the upper floors), but all he had was just the stone and a copy of the GIA report (which he reluctantly released to my possession). I asked him to take another close at the stone, but this time I am going to bring the IS tool with me, since he never heard of it before.

FYI - http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/3523

Zenit - I am not 100% sure about the stated color (D) and clarity (VS2) because of the grading lab (EGL). However, the cut seems to be very nice, kind of similar to ACA line and Eightstar with relatively short start facet and a little painted upper girdle (not that much I think). Optical symmetetry looks good and scanninig the helium seems to confirm that. No data for BS but cannot believe this performs poorly.

And most importantly this diamond is offered by the vendor very much trusted by many. Fully capable of analyzing anything from color to cut. The price is very low, though beyond your current budget. It might be because of esitmated real color and clarity, so it could really be E / SI1. But it may really be D / VS2.

This is a diamond from the cutter which I am not aware of. But they do have web site http://jillianscut.com/ where they claim the diamond depth shall be 60 - 61%. Pretty strict. Stricter than most, though the depth is not necessarily the most important.

1.53 D/VS2 (7.47 - 7.51 mm which I would like to see for this carat) H&A @ 14,781.

Cannot find this price if the color and clarity are real. Good even for E / SI1 and it may be better than anything you have found so far. I know this is more expensive than you want it to be. But if you could spend $13,000, find another $1,700 somewhere if this diamond is as good as it looks. I cannot gurantee that but GOG would not post anything a client does not feel good about. I would suggest (if you could afford additional $1,700) contacting them. As long as a diamond is backed by someone who can be 100% trusted, paper is not that important. You could even ask them to submit it to AGS. Turn around is as far as I know within a few weeks if they are not busy. You will have to pay a few hundred dollars though.

 

[zenit77]

 

[zenit77]

Additional info on the E color stone from engagementringsdirect:

GIA - Round Brilliant
7.34 - 7.41 * 4.50 mm

1.51 E SI1
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Flour: None

Table: 58%
TDeapth: 61%
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pavilion: 40.6
Cullet: None
Girdle: Medium - slightly thick (faceted)

$11,892

 

[gontama]

 

[gontama]

Date: 9/19/2007 11:40:52 AM
Author: zenit77
Additional info on the E color stone from engagementringsdirect:

GIA - Round Brilliant
7.34 - 7.41 * 4.50 mm

1.51 E SI1
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Flour: None

Table: 58%
TDeapth: 61%
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pavilion: 40.6
Cullet: None
Girdle: Medium - slightly thick (faceted)

$11,892

I think they are good. Table is just a little bit larger than I often see, but I think that is still within an ideal range. If it is eye-clean and you like the looks, get it. I would still suggest to have an indepenent appraiser inspect the diamond and get objective verdict.