Is six years enough for a life?

[Amber St. Clare]

Mt son lost a friend to drunk driving last year.

He worked with a 24 year old young man. The young man's father is an alcoholic. He came to their place of work to pick up his son. The son told a co-worker he didn't want to get in the car because the dad was drunk again.

The father crashed the car and the 24 yr. old was killed instantly. The father was in jail for approx. a year. I just heard that a plea deal had been worked out--6 years in jail, 10 years probation and a lifetime loss of driving privileges. The family doesn't think sending the father to jail serves any purpose.

I think the man is essentially getting away with murder. Six years is NOTHING. My husband said that I am being heartless and where is my compassion? I told him my sympathies are with the young man who will NEVER experience all the wonders our son will. My husband said the family is decimated and that should be enough. Sorry, I don't agree.

What do you think?

 

[missydebby]

It's a rotten heart-breaking tragedy all around.

 

[kittybean]

Honestly, I think that by the DUI laws of most states, the father is being sentenced on the harsher side. Someone in the jurisdiction I work in would have probably gotten significantly less time unless there are a bunch of aggravating factors we don't know about.

I think any jail sentence will often seem to not be "enough" when a loss of life is involved. However, as a society, we have decided that we don't want to live by Hammurabi's code (an eye for an eye, a life for a life, etc.). I think that, in the case you described, it appears that sentencing the father to more jail time would prolong the family's suffering and be against their wishes. The prosecutor who worked out that deal probably took that into account.

I am really sorry about the loss of your son's friend--what a heartbreaking, horrible, senseless waste of life. I hope that anyone who hears this tragic story will think twice about getting into a car with a driver they think may be drunk. No matter how inconvenient, expensive, or annoying it might be to find another way to get where you're going, riding with a drunk driver is never, ever worth risking your life.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

DUI laws are not harsh enough. As far as I'm concerned, if a DUI takes a life, the DUI should be locked up for life. I have no tolerance at all for DUI'S.

 

[TooPatient]

I do not think it was enough. Regardless of what his family thinks.
Next time it could be someone elses son that he kills.

DUI laws are too lenient. A DUI needs to be treated as a serious offense and EVERY person who is found to be DUI should face a more serious penalty than is currently in the laws.

If they didn't give so many warnings (and I consider fines, requirement to go to a class, and a single night in jail to be warnings) there would be a lot fewer peopld dead or seriously injured. A warning is fine when it is actually a warning, but when it happens again and again and again the crime isn't taken seriously anymore.


With the technology and information available today, there is NO excuse. Cell phones (iPhone and maybe others) have applications that let you input your height, weight, and drinks you've had in the evening and shows an approximate blood alcohol level -- nothing precise, just enough to hopefully help people make the decision to drive (or not drive as the case may be) safely.
I saw breath tests in a car stereo store (and other places too) that cost all of $20.
I'm not saying these are exact, just that there are low cost things available to help people make safe choices -- In case all of the news stories of dead or permanently injured people aren't enough to scare them into thinking.

The city my grandparents live in have a program that allows ANYONE who has been drinking to call for a taxi home free of charge. The number is posted nice and big so no one can miss it.
Again, NO EXCUSE.

 

[packrat]

I'm a bit of a harsh person as far as people learning there are consequences to their actions.

 

[Autumnovember]

I can see both sides....the whole thing is just a complete tragedy for everyone involved. How horrific

 

[yssie]

I'm a bit of a harsh person as far as people learning there are consequences to their actions.

I lost a good friend to a drunk driver accident four years ago, and it still haunts me.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for reckless, selfish, toxic vermin that willfully endanger everyone else on the road with their idiocy.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

No six years is not enough. . .also, isn't the loss of driving privilages a joke? What's to stop him from driving? Is he going to wear one of those devices that tests if he has alcohol in his system for the rest of his life? Chances are he will drive again and probably drunk!

Drunk drivers flat out piss me off! They ruin every holiday because I fear taking my kids anywhere like forth of july festivities and new years' eve so we stay home.

 

[kittybean]

No six years is not enough. . .also, isn't the loss of driving privilages a joke? What's to stop him from driving? Is he going to wear one of those devices that tests if he has alcohol in his system for the rest of his life?

Very true. The recidivism rate is appalling. Short of locking every drunk driver up for life--for which there are nowhere near enough resources--what can be done?

 

[AprilBaby]

Killing your own son is a punishment that no one would ever get over, that being said, protecting someone elses son from the father is a must! No jail time leaves him free to drive again. There is, however, no amount of jail time that can make up for a lost life. I am totally P*ssed that Lindasay Lohan continues to get such a lenient sentence and so much publicity that makes it all look like a joke.

 

[TooPatient]

No six years is not enough. . .also, isn't the loss of driving privilages a joke? What's to stop him from driving? Is he going to wear one of those devices that tests if he has alcohol in his system for the rest of his life?

Very true. The recidivism rate is appalling. Short of locking every drunk driver up for life--for which there are nowhere near enough resources--what can be done?

Start with sizable fines for the FIRST offense + impound car + driving course (preferably one that shows how little alcohol it takes to impair a person)

2nd offense -- another sizable fine + jail time (a week at least) + impound car + driving course + suspended license + require installation of breath test device in car (so car won't start unless you breathe into it) + court expenses

3rd offense -- LARGE fine + jail time (month or more) + impound car + driving course + suspended license (longer) + additional jail time (year or more) suspended sentence + court expenses

4th offense -- LARGE FINE + suspended time (see 3rd offense -- maybe double that to include time for new offense) + impound car + loss of license (permanent) + court expenses

5th offense and beyond -- MASSIVE fines + LONG jail times (5 years +) + suspended sentences (so any additional will essentially be remainder of life in prison) + required to pay expenses of imprisonment (food, clothing, guards, etc.) + court expenses


There should also be a database of all DUIs so people can check easily. Police across the country should be able to enter a license number and tell how many offenses a person has had. This service should also be available for car dealerships and auto rentals to submit a driver's license number to so they don't sell or rent to someone who shouldn't be driving.

In general, make the fines and penalties so severe that it will discourage most people (I know I'd think extra hard before driving home from a holiday party if it meant I could be facing 5+ years in jail (not to say I would ever drive after drinking -- I only ever have any alcohol when I am at home and certain I won't be driving))


I'm SO SICK of people thinking it is okay to do this. It is also NOT OKAY for people to go to a "business lunch" where they have wine/beer and then drive home. I don't care if it was a company activity -- no one is pouring the alcohold down your throat and there are PLENTY of other options. And, regardless of what these DUI SCUMS think, no one will know the difference between an iced tea and a beer (for that matter lemonaide, water, grape juice, soda.....) YOU AREN'T THE CENTER OF THE WORLD AND NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU ARE DRINKING!!! (sorry, I've heard this excuse from a lot of people and am just sick of hearing it)

 

[yssie]

The problem with the Warning System is that the Consequences System doesn't follow that rule of increasing severity.


Just ONE foolish mistake is enough to cost someone his or her life.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Very tragic. My heart goes out to the family. I think it is important to state that addiction IS a disease. Best case the father dries out and finds sobriety while in jail. 6 years is a long time to think about the consequences of his actions. He killed his son. Alcoholics are not monsters. I am fairly certain the father is feeling more grief and torment than we could ever know. Fingers crossed that even though the son died, the father can save his OWN life.

 

[MonkeyPie]

I don't think 6 years is enough, but if we did this to every single DUI that took a life, can you imagine how full the jails would be (and how much more we would be paying in taxes for it)? I'm not sure what we could do otherwise, but I feel like it needs to be worse than jail time.

 

[TooPatient]

The problem with the Warning System is that the Consequences System doesn't follow that rule of increasing severity.


Just ONE foolish mistake is enough to cost someone his or her life.

True.

At the point someone is hurt/killed the drunk should face the same consequences they would have had they set out to intentionally harm the person (or people). If someone dies, it should be treated as murder. If the person survives, then assault with a deadly weapon.


Along with this, Hit & Run should be seen as a VERY serious crime and the driver should be searched for until found.



MonkeyPie --
I agree that the crowding in jails would become a problem. The way to fix that would be to increase the penalty for murderers and sex offenders (most specifically people who raped children). Too many people are given a free ride with life in prison. If they aren't safe to live among the rest of society, why pay to keep them alive?

 

[Karl_K]

no it is not nearly long enough.

A friend of mine and her 3 kids was murdered by a drunk driver.
He got 10 years and was out in 18 months.
3 weeks later he was arrested for DUI.

 

[Karl_K]

no it is not nearly long enough.

A friend of mine and her 3 kids was murdered by a drunk driver.
He got 10 years and was out in 18 months.
3 weeks later he was arrested for DUI.

 

[Tuckins1]

I am sorry to hear this, it's tragic.

 

[Haven]

I'm a bit of a harsh person as far as people learning there are consequences to their actions.

I lost a good friend to a drunk driver accident four years ago, and it still haunts me.
I have no sympathy whatsoever for reckless, selfish, toxic vermin that willfully endanger everyone else on the road with their idiocy.

Neither do I. I feel the same way about drivers who are reckless due to other causes, including overly aggressive driving and text messaging or talking on the phone.

As for the OP, I don't think a jail sentence will ever feel like enough of a sentence for taking a life. In this case, this man took his own son's life and that brings up so many other questions that I cannot even begin to ponder. Of course, I don't know the answer, either.

Generally though, people who use cars as weapons don't get any sympathy from me. Ever. If you chose to drink that alcohol/text that message/paint your nails/cut someone off and you ended up killing someone as a result of your action, there was intention there, IMO.

It sickens me to know people who have received multiple DUIs. Or to see people driving cars with their Blackberry or iPhone propped on the steering wheel. Those people are putting MY safety at risk, and I despise them for it.

 

[kittybean]

At the point someone is hurt/killed the drunk should face the same consequences they would have had they set out to intentionally harm the person (or people). If someone dies, it should be treated as murder. If the person survives, then assault with a deadly weapon.

Along with this, Hit & Run should be seen as a VERY serious crime and the driver should be searched for until found.

MonkeyPie --
I agree that the crowding in jails would become a problem. The way to fix that would be to increase the penalty for murderers and sex offenders (most specifically people who raped children). Too many people are given a free ride with life in prison. If they aren't safe to live among the rest of society, why pay to keep them alive?

It is much, much more costly to impose the death penalty. While I do not believe in the death penalty, I know that other people do, and I respect that point of view. The fact of the matter is that death penalty litigation consumes years upon years of time and million of dollars in taxpayer money--and that's just ONE case. Life imprisonment is a much less costly alternative.

In your post further above, you outlined some possible sentencing guidelines. In my state, the vast majority of your suggestions are already in place, and we are still struggling with incredibly high recidivism rates. For a first offense, there is usually some jail time (often 10 days that can be served on in-home detention) + loss of license + fines + court costs + probation (to include 3-12 months of weekly alcohol classes and outpatient therapy, a victim impact panel put on by MADD, monitored sobriety through random breathalyzers or an ankle bracelet) + a minimum of 48 hours of community service. It jumps up from there with each subsequent DUI. All of those extras have fees attached, and even people who are indigent must pay $3,000+ to ultimately resolve the case. While hefty fines often serve to motivate people with means to conform their behavior to the law, people without means don't have reason to be similarly motivated. What difference does it make to them whether they owe $3,000 or $15,000 when their income is nonexistent, and they'll never pay it back either way?

At any rate, I think all of this is very interesting food for thought. I often discuss with people how they might change the DUI laws to better manage drunk driving cases, and it is hard to come up with something that is financially feasible and relatively fair to administer across the board.

 

[Nashville]

I lost a relative to drunk driving, and am very zero tolerance about driving while intoxicated. I don't believe you could do anything more selfish than to go get yourself inebriated and endanger/kill people with reckless behavior. Because let's face it, no one who does this is genuinely thinking about anyone else but themselves. I mean gosh, what do people expect them to do, take a bus?

I think you drive drunk, you lose your license forever, end of story. You kill someone, it's life in jail. End of story.

 

[yssie]

del.

 

[BoulderGal]

I don't think 6 years is enough. I hope the father takes that time for some really hard self-reflection and gets sober.

Good point about talking/texting on the phone being just as dangerous as driving drunk. I read a study, can't quite recall the citation, that studied talking on the phone--people on the phone are just as dangerous as drunk drivers, maybe more. My neighbor two doors down had his car, parked in front of his house, totaled by a woman driving on the other side of the street, texting. Any distraction impairs a driver.

I have an interesting take as a recovering alcoholic (7 years sober). Even in the depths of my drunken spiral, I wouldn't drive drunk--sleep in my car if necessary, but wouldn't drive out of fear of hurting someone. Alcoholism combined with self centeredness and our car centric culture seems to be the combination that creates drunk driving.

 

[yssie]

BoulderGal - I just want to say it's brave of you to come forward with that insight on this thread, and you've done a really amazing thing, turning around and staying sober for so long

 

[Tacori E-ring]

BoulderGal - I just want to say it's brave of you to come forward with that insight on this thread, and you've done a really amazing thing, turning around and staying sober for so long

I agree! You are a miracle and should be very proud of yourself. Your war is not an easy one to win.

 

[Arkteia]

I do not know how to answer your question... Just feel very, very sad for a 24 year-old whose life was probably made difficult by a drinking father. And who was eventually killed by the father. I don't know if 6 years is enough. If the father really gets what he has done... and spends the rest of his life mourning his son... then it maybe enough. But there is a chance that he'll be drinking again.

 

[Trekkie]

BoulderGal - I just want to say it's brave of you to come forward with that insight on this thread, and you've done a really amazing thing, turning around and staying sober for so long

I agree! You are a miracle and should be very proud of yourself. Your war is not an easy one to win.

Absolutely! Well done on working your programme as well as you have. 7 years is an amazing achievement.

In this case, we can only hope that the unfortunate death of his son allows this man to find his sobriety. It is an incredibly sad situation and I hope this acts as a warning to others around him, so that they don't repeat his mistake.

 

[BoulderGal]

Yessie, Tacori, and Trekkie,

Thanks for the compliments. It was a long time in coming, and I'm only just now becoming comfortable in my own skin, telling people about it. Maybe if I share my story, other people won't feel alone or afraid to face their problems, KWIM?

Addictions suck, there's no other way to put it, both for the addictee and the people who love them.

I can only imagine the torture that the father in the OP's story is feeling, yet he is responsible for his actions. As I said before, he at *least* has six years to contemplate his actions--perhaps some good may come of it.