Is Premarin Inhumane?

[somethingshiny]

Along the lines of several of our current discussion, is producing/taking Premarin inhumane??

 

[Kaleigh]

Yes!! I''ve heard horror stories, and think it''s wrong. Poor horses.

 

[ursulawrite]

Absolutely wrong.

 

[MonkeyPie]

I've not heard of this - someone link me to an explaination

nevermind, I looked it up on Wikipedia - yes, this is animal cruelty. And women survived without drugs to "control" menopause for years, so wtf, get over it.

 

[yssie]

YES, it's wrong!

I don't think there's anything bad with the idea, or the science behind it, but controls and restrictions on implementation are sorely lacking. The health of the donor should come first.

 

[honey22]

Can someone provide a linky so I can find out whats going on?

 

[honey22]

OK, I have been doing a bit of research, and it seems like a horrible practise.

But before you stop taking your menopause meds, the majority of them now are synthetic and not from horses. You can ask your Doc to prescribe a synthetic compound instead.

Monkeypie, your comment was harsh and uncalled for.

Some women really suffer from menopause symptoms and can greatly affect their quality of life. They should be able to get help without narrow-minded and judgemental opinions like yours.

How would you feel if you were taking medication for something that effected your quality of life and you were told to get over it?

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 11/3/2009 7:52:51 PM
Author: honey22
OK, I have been doing a bit of research, and it seems like a horrible practise.
But before you stop taking your menopause meds, the majority of them now are synthetic and not from horses. You can ask your Doc to prescribe a synthetic compound instead.

Monkeypie, your comment was harsh and uncalled for.

Some women really suffer from menopause symptoms and can greatly affect their quality of life. They should be able to get help without narrow-minded and judgemental opinions like yours.

How would you feel if you were taking medication for something that effected your quality of life and you were told to get over it?

Far from it, but thanks for not allowing me to have an opinion

What I''m talking about is not even caring what you take or where it came from as long as YOU feel better. "Oh, who cares if this thing is made by killing animals - I feel SO much better!"


Menopause can be a big freaking deal, I know that, I''m not that ignorant. But there are a lot of ways to make it easier and deal with it than taking drugs, I know that too.

 

[somethingshiny]

I''ve spoken out against this practice since I was a teenager who was head over heels in love with horses. However, does it change your mind knowing some women "need" it to reduce their risk of heart disease, stroke that their lack of estrogen causes. (not just hot flashes) Yes, there are synthetics, but some doctors stand by the statement that REAL estrogen is the only hope for them.

How would you feel if you really thought your life was at risk if you DIDN''T take it?

 

[AprilBaby]

So where is the link?

 

[charbie]

hmmm...i feel like the collection methods aren''t exactly humane, but if i stopped to think about all of the products i use on a daily basis, where they came from, and how "humane" it was to obtain that product...well then i''d probably have to sit in a fetal position in the woods all day long. and even then i''d worry about the bugs i might have stepped on/sat on.

the sneakers on my feet were probably made in a sweat shop, my home displaced a bunch of deer, the fumes from my car that i drove to work today probably killed a bird.

i do have to say that its nice to consider things before we buy them, use them, whatever.

but i''d feel hypocritical to say i''m against premarin but pass me the veal parmesean.


wow...i feel like a debby-downer!

 

[Circe]

My doctor prescribed Premarin for me after my second-trimester miscarriage, to promote uterine healing. It''s a drug with multiple applications.

This is a different class of thing from declawing cats and the like, I think: more akin to testing drugs with the potential for saving human lives on animals. The horses are quite literally used to produce the drugs that make it possible for women to experience their lives with as little pain as possible, and they''re drugs with multiple applications. While I think it should be a priority to develop synthetic strains of this drug, and as many others as possible, it''s pretty much inevitable that there will be tough choices made somewhere along the way.

Testing mascara on chimps? Or forcing white mice to live in a pure-tobacco-smoke environment to "prove" that tobacco is harmless? Um, no. Drugs that exponentially improve human lives? Yes. It''s sad, but, hey, welcome to the food chain.

 

[charbie]

Date: 11/3/2009 8:28:11 PM
Author: somethingshiny
I''ve spoken out against this practice since I was a teenager who was head over heels in love with horses. However, does it change your mind knowing some women ''need'' it to reduce their risk of heart disease, stroke that their lack of estrogen causes. (not just hot flashes) Yes, there are synthetics, but some doctors stand by the statement that REAL estrogen is the only hope for them.

How would you feel if you really thought your life was at risk if you DIDN''T take it?

amen sister!

my host-mom was unreal during menopause. i mean, this woman seemed to have some serious issues- i thought she had borderline personality disorder, no joke.

turned out that she needed some medications to stabilize her moods/estrogen. she finally got on track and was "normal" again which was amazing for not only her, but for her entire family.

sure, i understand that "if people did it in the old days, then they can suffer through it now..." but like the vaccines- people died in massive massive numbers from preventable problems back then too!

 

[lulu]

Yep. That''s why I am a card carrying member of Peta.

 

[EricaR]

Having spent some time at Premarin farms in Canada I''d have to say that all of the ones I saw with my own eyes were not cruel or inhumane in any way. The ones I visited had realized that they could make money breeding and selling very nice horses. I mean, why NOT breed very nice sporthorse babies, collect the urine from the mares and then sell the babies? Much easier to do with nice babies than with "junk".

I wasn''t sure what to expect when we visited the farms but I was blown away by the love and care that the farmers put into their mares and foals.

 

[Lorelei]

YES.

There are synthetic alternatives. Also there aren't enough good homes for these foals and horses to go around, guess what can happen to them once their ' usefulness' is over....

 

[dragonfly411]

Date: 11/4/2009 6:20:57 AM
Author: Lorelei
YES.

There are synthetic alternatives. Also there aren''t enough good homes for these foals and horses to go around, guess what can happen to them once their '' usefulness'' is over....

What she said

 

[jewelerman]

again ,i am enlightened !

 

[somethingshiny]

Firstly, thank you all for your posts and not turning this into a debate.

Looks like a few had no idea about the Premarin practices so I''m glad we were able to bring a new subject to the foreground. Education is power.

I think the collection methods are most definitely inhumane and absolutely disgusting. However, I will add this. I think we need some VERY well-monitored facilities to continue production of Premarin. I think the mares should be on a rotating breeding schedule so they''re not penned up constantly and I think they should have more freedom while pregnant albeit reducing the collections. Also, the foals should be monitored to make sure they are healthy and viable and the Premarin facility should be linked with a sale barn at the very least, preferably a reputable breeder who can place the foals into good homes. For reasons like Circe stated, REAL estrogen is needed to help people. I think patients requiring HRT should be screened and offered synthetics. I don''t think Premarin should be offered first. The relatively low percentage who need the real thing could then be monitored for short periods until their bodies could also use synthetics.

 

[Callisto]

Date: 11/3/2009 8:30:35 PM
Author: charbie
hmmm...i feel like the collection methods aren''t exactly humane, but if i stopped to think about all of the products i use on a daily basis, where they came from, and how ''humane'' it was to obtain that product...well then i''d probably have to sit in a fetal position in the woods all day long. and even then i''d worry about the bugs i might have stepped on/sat on.


the sneakers on my feet were probably made in a sweat shop, my home displaced a bunch of deer, the fumes from my car that i drove to work today probably killed a bird.


i do have to say that its nice to consider things before we buy them, use them, whatever.


but i''d feel hypocritical to say i''m against premarin but pass me the veal parmesean.



wow...i feel like a debby-downer!

Don''t feel like a debbie-downer, you made a good point. People can be so selective about when and how they want to save the world, and be kind to animals. While I don''t think being a good consumer is an all or nothing deal it is important not to judge people for their consumer actions if they are unwilling to look at their own ways of consumption.

I''m reading a book called "Big Coal" right now that discusses the coal industry in America and its very eye opening. You''d be surprised at how much of your energy probably comes from coal and what a terribly destructive and harmful process it is for not only the environment but humans and animals as well.

Don''t get me wrong, I am and always will be an animal rights supporter and I am 100% for finding an effective synthetic alternative to permarin but I just think we should look at ourselves and judge our own consumer ways before judging others.

 

[somethingshiny]

I don''t think anyone on this thread has been judging others.

We all pick and choose what we''re for or against because nobody''s perfect. Og course we all have our pet causes that we''d like to see changed. I don''t think that''s being judgmental, I think it''s being proactive.

 

[dragonfly411]

Something - I agree with your idea. I think a good option would probably be to use mares that are already being bred for useful foals. I.E. Thoroughbred mares, mares that are being used as ovens (embryo transfer b/c some mares are unable to carry foals to term, but their value is unmatchable) etc. This would give them top life styles, top facilities, and the foals would already have a future goal/road pre planned.

The unfortunate thing about the foals now is that they have no plan for them. They''re just breeding and whatever happens to those babies happens, and that isn''t ok. I also hate that the mares are so completely confined. For the same reasons, I will NOT eat domestic pork.

 

[Rock_of_Love]

As a pharmaceutical sales rep, I sold a synthetic alternative for many years - femhrt. It was basically the same exact compounds in birth control pills (lo-estrin, estrostep) but at lower doses.

I sold "against" premarin/prempro, and frankly I was disgusted and saddened that anyone would take this compound when there are plenty good alternatives. I think the problem was/is that *most* women do not know what premarin is and their doctors don''t tell them...I think if they were told, and were offered alternatives, most women would take the alternative in a heartbeat! Hello...pre-mar-in = "pregnant mare''s urine"...that is where the name comes from! (that may have already been said, haven''t read everything). It was unbelieveable to me that prempro had well OVER 80-90% of the share in the HRT market. Hopefully that has changed since my time.

So, to answer the OP question, yes, I think premarin is inhumane. I love horses (and all animals) and this has always made me sad.

 

[honey22]

Date: 11/3/2009 8:16:28 PM
Author: MonkeyPie

Date: 11/3/2009 7:52:51 PM

Author: honey22

OK, I have been doing a bit of research, and it seems like a horrible practise.

But before you stop taking your menopause meds, the majority of them now are synthetic and not from horses. You can ask your Doc to prescribe a synthetic compound instead.


Monkeypie, your comment was harsh and uncalled for.

Some women really suffer from menopause symptoms and can greatly affect their quality of life. They should be able to get help without narrow-minded and judgemental opinions like yours.


How would you feel if you were taking medication for something that effected your quality of life and you were told to get over it?

Far from it, but thanks for not allowing me to have an opinion

What I''m talking about is not even caring what you take or where it came from as long as YOU feel better. ''Oh, who cares if this thing is made by killing animals - I feel SO much better!''



Menopause can be a big freaking deal, I know that, I''m not that ignorant. But there are a lot of ways to make it easier and deal with it than taking drugs, I know that too.

And women survived without drugs to "control" menopause for years, so wtf, get over it.


That''s your words there Monkeypie. How are we expected to derive that you are talking about not caring what you take from animals as long as you are happy? That''s crap. Do you really think it''s ok to tell people wtf, just get over it? If you understood menopause, I highly doubt it.

 

[dragonfly411]

I actually took Monkey''s remark that way, b/c yes women DID go without drugs, so why should animals have to be killed so a woman can have reprieve? Take herbs, or an alternate drug. It should not be a requirement to have THIS solution to your menopause.

 

[miraclesrule]

It''s an awful practice and Premarin, synthetic or otherwise is not a necessary drug. It''s convenient and well...the doctor says...

I''ve been through menopause and it sucks swampwater. Yet it is better controlled through diet and natural estrogen from yams and other plant sources, than some synthetic drug. You prefer diamonds over CZ''s don''t you?

Do you want to know the real reason a women gets serious hotflashes? Check the diet. Native American women rarely had menopausal symptoms as we know them (which in my opinion can be traced to sleep deprivation, due to hot flashes all damn night"

Sugar!! I started noticing that after a few sips of wine, BAM! Hot flash. Stopped the wine at night...no hot flashes. Bummer....I really wanted my wine because I thought it helped me fall asleep. So I started experimenting with sugar intake during the day. The more sugar I ate, the more I hot flashed. Perhaps the fact that Native American woman ate more plant based and animal protein diet resulted in the lack of menopausal symptoms. It always stuns me that people think the human body is a garbage disposal and that the stuff we put in it has no consequences that a pharma company can''t capitalize on in order for us to reverse the effects of our poor dietary intake.

Oh ...the Native American women...they rode and loved their horses!!!!!

 

[dragonfly411]

Date: 11/4/2009 11:34:14 PM
Author: miraclesrule
It''s an awful practice and Premarin, synthetic or otherwise is not a necessary drug. It''s convenient and well...the doctor says...


I''ve been through menopause and it sucks swampwater. Yet it is better controlled through diet and natural estrogen from yams and other plant sources, than some synthetic drug. You prefer diamonds over CZ''s don''t you?


Do you want to know the real reason a women gets serious hotflashes? Check the diet. Native American women rarely had menopausal symptoms as we know them (which in my opinion can be traced to sleep deprivation, due to hot flashes all damn night''


Sugar!! I started noticing that after a few sips of wine, BAM! Hot flash. Stopped the wine at night...no hot flashes. Bummer....I really wanted my wine because I thought it helped me fall asleep. So I started experimenting with sugar intake during the day. The more sugar I ate, the more I hot flashed. Perhaps the fact that Native American woman ate more plant based and animal protein diet resulted in the lack of menopausal symptoms. It always stuns me that people think the human body is a garbage disposal and that the stuff we put in it has no consequences that a pharma company can''t capitalize on in order for us to reverse the effects of our poor dietary intake.


Oh ...the Native American women...they rode and loved their horses!!!!!

I wuv you for that

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 11/4/2009 3:48:34 PM
Author: honey22

Date: 11/3/2009 8:16:28 PM

Author: MonkeyPie

Date: 11/3/2009 7:52:51 PM

Author: honey22

OK, I have been doing a bit of research, and it seems like a horrible practise.

But before you stop taking your menopause meds, the majority of them now are synthetic and not from horses. You can ask your Doc to prescribe a synthetic compound instead.

Monkeypie, your comment was harsh and uncalled for.

Some women really suffer from menopause symptoms and can greatly affect their quality of life. They should be able to get help without narrow-minded and judgemental opinions like yours.

How would you feel if you were taking medication for something that effected your quality of life and you were told to get over it?

Far from it, but thanks for not allowing me to have an opinion

What I''m talking about is not even caring what you take or where it came from as long as YOU feel better. ''Oh, who cares if this thing is made by killing animals - I feel SO much better!''

Menopause can be a big freaking deal, I know that, I''m not that ignorant. But there are a lot of ways to make it easier and deal with it than taking drugs, I know that too.

And women survived without drugs to ''control'' menopause for years, so wtf, get over it.

That''s your words there Monkeypie. How are we expected to derive that you are talking about not caring what you take from animals as long as you are happy? That''s crap. Do you really think it''s ok to tell people wtf, just get over it? If you understood menopause, I highly doubt it.

I didn''t edit my words, I know exactly what I said, and since I meant it, I left it there. No need to get all hostile, especially since you have no idea what I was talking about anyway. Dragonfly got it!

And as someone who suffered through sympathy hot flashes for years when my mother had a hysterectomy and began early menopause, I''d say I have a pretty darn good idea what that entails and how hard it is to deal with. I saw my mom suffer, but I also saw her TAKE STEPS TO HELP HERSELF. And she only needed drugs for awhile to get over the transition period, before she found, like miraclesrule said, what was making her symptoms worse.

Don''t assume, until you''ve asked.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 11/3/2009 8:31:37 PM
Author: Circe
This is a different class of thing from declawing cats and the like, I think: more akin to testing drugs with the potential for saving human lives on animals. The horses are quite literally used to produce the drugs that make it possible for women to experience their lives with as little pain as possible, and they''re drugs with multiple applications. While I think it should be a priority to develop synthetic strains of this drug, and as many others as possible, it''s pretty much inevitable that there will be tough choices made somewhere along the way.

Testing mascara on chimps? Or forcing white mice to live in a pure-tobacco-smoke environment to ''prove'' that tobacco is harmless? Um, no. Drugs that exponentially improve human lives? Yes. It''s sad, but, hey, welcome to the food chain.

My thoughts exactly...well said.

 

[dragonfly411]

Date: 11/5/2009 10:36:30 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 11/3/2009 8:31:37 PM

Author: Circe

This is a different class of thing from declawing cats and the like, I think: more akin to testing drugs with the potential for saving human lives on animals. The horses are quite literally used to produce the drugs that make it possible for women to experience their lives with as little pain as possible, and they're drugs with multiple applications. While I think it should be a priority to develop synthetic strains of this drug, and as many others as possible, it's pretty much inevitable that there will be tough choices made somewhere along the way.


Testing mascara on chimps? Or forcing white mice to live in a pure-tobacco-smoke environment to 'prove' that tobacco is harmless? Um, no. Drugs that exponentially improve human lives? Yes. It's sad, but, hey, welcome to the food chain.

My thoughts exactly...well said.

My problem with this is that these mares are kept in small stalls, standing all day. Many times they have little food and water available to them throughout the day. They are left to stand in their own feces during these time periods as well. They are also used as incubators to produce babies that then have no use. The vast majority of premarin foals go to slaughter.... for what... so you won't have heat flashes??