Is owning a gun a right or a privilege?

[tyty333]

I was talking about the licensed dealer that wanted her to fill out the paperwork. Currently private transfers aren't required to do the background check by the federal government but they may be by certain states. I don't know for sure. I am in agreement with private transfers being done through FFL only. I won't sell one without it.

Ditto...that is also what I want done. All private sells must go through a government agency to make sure a background check is done. I know the NRA
would fight that but I cant imagine that NRA members want to see another school shooting. I dont want to take away everyone's guns I just want to
make it harder for the guns to be in the hands of those that should not have them.

 

[redwood66]

Ditto...that is also what I want done. All private sells must go through a government agency to make sure a background check is done. I know the NRA
would fight that but I cant imagine that NRA members want to see another school shooting. I dont want to take away everyone's guns I just want to
make it harder for the guns to be in the hands of those that should not have them.

All transfers could go through the current FFLs. I don't want another bloated government agency introduced or more BATFE agents to do this work. That would require local locations and be at an astronomical cost that is not needed if the NICS is working and populated as it should be. There will always be a problem with these universal background checks because some people will not follow the law. Of course NRA members don't want school shootings, no one does.

 

[autumngems]

As my hubby is a former Marine he has many guns to include an AR. He also had a business and had FFL to sell them. It just got to be too much paperwork and forms so he quite doing that.
I don't want to take away anyone's guns either just find a better way to monitor/be allowed to purchase within the rules.

 

[GliderPoss]

“We don’t have a gun fetish here,” he added. (Israel)

This probably describes the problem more accurately... it's an national obsession with "rights", a fetish of sorts without common sense. :roll

 

[Missy]

This probably describes the problem more accurately... it's an national obsession with "rights", a fetish of sorts without common sense. :roll

Yes. Must protect our "rights" against all common sense. Heaven forbid we take away their right to own a freaking gun arsenal. Little kids? Be darned. Innocent people? Who cares. As long as the minority of gun toting gun obsessed individuals get their "constitutional" rights to bear arms all is "right" with the world.
Not.

The United States has 88.8 guns per 100 people, or about 270,000,000 guns, which is the highest total and per capita number in the world. 22% of Americans own one or more guns (35% of men and 12% of women). Americans own about 42% of the world's civilian guns.

The Centers for Disease Control listed firearms as the #12 cause of all deaths between 1999 and 2013, representing 1.3% of total deaths. They were also the #1 method of death by homicide (66.6% of all homicides) and by suicide (52.2% of all suicides)

Five women a day are killed by guns in America. A woman's risk of being murdered increases 500% if a gun is present during a domestic dispute.

The US General Accounting Office (GAO) estimated that 100% of deaths per year in which a child under 6 years old shoots and kills him/herself or another child could be prevented by automatic child-proof safety locks.

source
https://gun-control.procon.org



Leading Causes of Suicide, Homicide, and Unintentional Death
1999-2015


Between 1999-2015 (a 16-year period), according to US data from the Centers for Disease Control's WISQARS database, deaths involving firearms were:

• #12 cause of death with 533,879 deaths (1.3% of all deaths);
  
  
• #1 method of suicide with 313,641 deaths (51.9% of all suicides). The next leading method, suffocation, had 141,042 deaths (23.3%);
  
  
• #1 method of homicide with 198,760 deaths (67.3% of all homicides). The next leading method, cutting or piercing, caused 32,305 deaths (10.9% of all homicides);
  
  
• #16 cause of unintentional death with 10,933 deaths (0.5% of all unintentional deaths).
  
  

 

[Arkteia]

Owning a gun is an obsession. I view gun enthusiasts as us, gem-lovers - they, too, make collections, share, exchange, boast. They even use the same words, "beauties", for their guns. Gun collectors, as I suspect, view the guns as assertion of their masculinity.

 

[autumngems]

My hubby has quite a collection of guns as he is a hunting, sport shooting and target shooting enthusiast. I don't think he is trying to assert his masculinity

 

[TooPatient]

Owning a gun is an obsession. I view gun enthusiasts as us, gem-lovers - they, too, make collections, share, exchange, boast. They even use the same words, "beauties", for their guns. Gun collectors, as I suspect, view the guns as assertion of their masculinity.

I'm not a girlie girl, but am not masculine and don't try to be. I will quite happily take my fresh pedicure out to the range for some target practice. No reason why men and women can't just have hobbies they enjoy without trying to make a point of anything.

 

[Tekate]

It's the same as saying to someone who collects dolls, I don't get, think it's stupid, a waste of money and time, but not everyone does. I don't see the allure of standing there at a range shooting a piece of metal at a bullseye, don't understand the 'rush' 'like' 'cool' of it, but some people do. I don't get pedicures often (2 in 65 years)..

Guns, I don't get the hobby, it's somewhat expensive. I think guns give a person a sense of power. As I have grown old (but still cool ((ish)) I have thought more about getting a gun as I live in a somewhat rural area. But then I think I'm supposed to lock the mf up and if someone is coming to kill/steal/terrorize me I don't think I would make it to a safe.

I define a militia as the National Guard no matter wtf the right leaning Supremes say.

My hobby: reading, some people may find that expensive, boring, not cool, not much social interaction etc.. I should do more for my community as a matter of fact, my prob with that is: "The GREAT SUCKING SOUND of Volunteering" I used to call it that when my kids were young, Yes I will help with the teacher/parent lunch day, next effing thing I have to run it, buy it, smile and clean it up.. my fear always about volunteering is having to do it all, and I suppose, I'm lazy.

I say again, some how gun(s) give a person a sense of power that I think it's false. A friend of mine's son did something at school that was really terrible in his parents eyes, his father verbally beat the crap out of him, he came home from school, went to dad's gun cabinet, unlocked it, got a hand gun went out to the garage and shot himself in the head. Sad sad thing. He was just 15 maybe he would have found a rope and tied himself up, but all I read about this type of suicide is if the person has a few minutes to think they don't shoot.

I'm not a girlie girl, but am not masculine and don't try to be. I will quite happily take my fresh pedicure out to the range for some target practice. No reason why men and women can't just have hobbies they enjoy without trying to make a point of anything.

 

[Arkteia]

My hubby has quite a collection of guns as he is a hunting, sport shooting and target shooting enthusiast. I don't think he is trying to assert his masculinity

Autumngems, I think there is, since ancient times. Otherwise why would ancient Greeks order custom-made armor? (And if you remember the Iliad, they fought over who would inherit the armor of their fallen comrades). It was all very personalized. In Czech Republic I saw the whole sets of medieval armor, all personalized and unique. I think this continues to guns and "feeling masculine" in modern men. No reason why women should not feel the same, "strong", Joan of Arc had her own body armor, and not only her. (Lots of very beautiful women did, Catharina Sforza immediately came to mind). Maybe it is about "being in control", not just masculinity. But it is way more than the gun.

(To think of it, school shooters are from the group that is the lowest on the totem pole in school, and for them the gun is often the only mean to be in control, or at least this is how they see it. There is another side to it - toxic situation in schools, and I now understand it more when people say "I hate school", and this is something we should work with, the other side of this equation).

 

[Arkteia]

I say again, some how gun(s) give a person a sense of power that I think it's false. A friend of mine's son did something at school that was really terrible in his parents eyes, his father verbally beat the crap out of him, he came home from school, went to dad's gun cabinet, unlocked it, got a hand gun went out to the garage and shot himself in the head. Sad sad thing. He was just 15 maybe he would have found a rope and tied himself up, but all I read about this type of suicide is if the person has a few minutes to think they don't shoot.

The problem is, it is not difficult to find a rope, but as you are tying the knot, you have the time to think, wait a moment, maybe I should call my friend, or what am I doing to my younger brother, or even my cat might miss me. I have seen a very brutal and cruel suicide attempt (someone I knew personally) - but even in that case, the pain saved the person. The guns are too fast, and the impulsivity of the decision + the fast gun does not give people any time.

 

[monarch64]

Masculine or feminine, guns are a power thing. Oh you don’t kill anything with your guns? Ok, but you COULD, right? It’s pretty hard to kill someone or something with a doll or a book if we’re speaking in terms of “hobbies.” Guns represent power, period. Marksmanship is a skill that is admired; admiration feeds power.

@Tekate lol at the sucking sound of volunteering!!! I know exactly what you mean!

 

[Tekate]

@monarch64 Oh gosh the stories I could tell you, but suffice that you know that all of sudden you are the ONLY ONE who can get five pies in 10 minutes.

Peace and happiness to you

Kate

@Tekate lol at the sucking sound of volunteering!!! I know exactly what you mean![/QUOTE]

 

[Calliecake]

@monarch64 Oh gosh the stories I could tell you, but suffice that you know that all of sudden you are the ONLY ONE who can get five pies in 10 minutes.



Too funny Kate! Been there too many times to count!

 

[redwood66]

Owning a gun is an obsession. I view gun enthusiasts as us, gem-lovers - they, too, make collections, share, exchange, boast. They even use the same words, "beauties", for their guns. Gun collectors, as I suspect, view the guns as assertion of their masculinity.

You are stereotyping across a broad range of people and that is never a good thing, no matter the subject.

 

[Arkteia]

You are stereotyping across a broad range of people and that is never a good thing, no matter the subject.

Probably, Redwood66 - keep in mind that for any foreigner not raised with guns, the situation here looks somewhat unusual, and I am trying to explain things to myself. People here grew up with guns, so it is not surprising to them. But the most typical answer "for protection" - I still can't understand. Because no one, ever, explained to me "from what"

 

[monarch64]

From other people with guns, of course—the “bad guys!”

 

[redwood66]

Probably, Redwood66 - keep in mind that for any foreigner not raised with guns, the situation here looks somewhat unusual, and I am trying to explain things to myself. People here grew up with guns, so it is not surprising to them. But the most typical answer "for protection" - I still can't understand. Because no one, ever, explained to me "from what"

I would imagine that you will probably never understand because you, and others, are so firmly in the anti camp. Which is totally fine with me because I never expect anyone to agree with me or think like me, or go buy a gun for that matter. It is a burden, but one worth it for me. I do not try to change anyone's mind or denigrate those that do not agree with me. I will continue to provide factual information along with my perspective. The fact is this is a difficult subject rife with emotion, and is often plagued with misinformation provided by the media to further an agenda.

Edit - I don't think being a foreigner would be any different than someone in the city who was never exposed to firearms. Neither may understand a "need or want" of someone else.

As to "from what", there is plenty out there to protect yourself from and everyone, especially women, should always be aware of their surroundings. You may never have the misfortune, but many do every day.

 

[Arkteia]

I would imagine that you will probably never understand because you, and others, are so firmly in the anti camp. Which is totally fine with me because I never expect anyone to agree with me or think like me, or go buy a gun for that matter. It is a burden, but one worth it for me. I do not try to change anyone's mind or denigrate those that do not agree with me. I will continue to provide factual information along with my perspective. The fact is this is a difficult subject rife with emotion, and is often plagued with misinformation provided by the media to further an agenda.

Edit - I don't think being a foreigner would be any different than someone in the city who was never exposed to firearms. Neither may understand a "need or want" of someone else.

As to "from what", there is plenty out there to protect yourself from and everyone, especially women, should always be aware of their surroundings. You may never have the misfortune, but many do every day.

And there probably lies deep cultural difference. I am not the only one. Shortly after I moved here, my acquaintance, also a foreigner, divorced her American husband, a seemingly OK guy. When I asked her why, she said, with tears in her eyes, "imagine, he sleeps with a loaded gun under his pillow!" I asked, naively, "did he use to be a policeman?", and she said, "he is just a lunatic!" But now I am wondering how many people keep loaded guns within reach when they sleep?

As to protection, people would usually stare when I ask the question "from what". Although I once met a person who said, "from the liberasts who are going to take away my guns", so, see, once I got an answer (true story).

BTW - I can imagine that people's situations are different. There are professions carrying a high risk of being robbed, so gun control would be difficult. But I absolutely do not agree that more guns = more safety.

I rather believe that more guns = more spontaneous discharges or accidental injury

Here: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/huffma...n-accident-at-birmingham-alabama-high-school/

And a week ago. Teachers are humans, too.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/28/us/georgia-dalton-high-school-teacher-gunfire/index.html

So I am against arming teachers and I am for raising the age of being legally able to purchase a gun to 21.

 

[TooPatient]

@Arkteia From what? From being another dead body when no one is around to help.

A high school friend was tied up and tortured to death over several days.

My neighbor was murdered in the middle of the night and the murderer never caught. (Stabbing) No one saw anything. The nearest neighbor (us) was 1/4 mile away.

A family I used to nanny for was in an area close to our prison but difficult to access so police response was 20+ minutes. Escapes from the prison were not uncommon.

We have a lot of areas where getting help takes a lot of time and you better have a way to defend yourself against drugged up people carrying knives or guns or even just beating with whatever is handy.


Whether you would choose to have a gun and learn to use it safely to make sure your family has a chance at surviving a home invasion or not, that is an option that others choose to take and they should be allowed to weigh the risks and benefits for their own house. (Keeping in mind that the owner should absolutely be held responsible for keeping it secure!)

 

[Arkteia]

@Arkteia From what? From being another dead body when no one is around to help.

A high school friend was tied up and tortured to death over several days.

My neighbor was murdered in the middle of the night and the murderer never caught. (Stabbing) No one saw anything. The nearest neighbor (us) was 1/4 mile away.

A family I used to nanny for was in an area close to our prison but difficult to access so police response was 20+ minutes. Escapes from the prison were not uncommon.

We have a lot of areas where getting help takes a lot of time and you better have a way to defend yourself against drugged up people carrying knives or guns or even just beating with whatever is handy.


Whether you would choose to have a gun and learn to use it safely to make sure your family has a chance at surviving a home invasion or not, that is an option that others choose to take and they should be allowed to weigh the risks and benefits for their own house. (Keeping in mind that the owner should absolutely be held responsible for keeping it secure!)

@TooPatient, I am very sorry for your friend. And the neighbor.

As I have said, there might be situations and places where a gun might be a necessity. For adults. Kids are still kids.

I was always wondering about Israel. A country which has many enemies. Men and women serve in the army and walk around with guns. And yet there is nothing even close to our abundance of school shootings.

What is different?

An Israeli expat explained to me that they do not allow kids younger than 18 to have guns. And they test their army recruits very seriously. Psychologically. As in any army, there can be fights between soldiers, but no shootings. And very few Israelites after army are issued gun permits.

Where lies the difference?

This article is somewhat old, before the recent mayhem, but pretty self-explanatory.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-israel-unlike-the-us-a-privilege-but-no-right-to-bear-arms/

“The two critical factors explaining Israeli civilians’ relatively effective responses... are training and an embedded, perhaps biblical and religious sense of responsibility for one another.

The training begins with the military, where combat soldiers are taught from day one to charge the enemy. The army’s psychological screening tests are also used to determine who may carry a weapon post-army, as a civilian.

“If you did not serve, they want to know why,” said Ronen Rabani, the manager of Krav, a Jerusalem gun store and shooting range where gun registrations can be renewed and mandatory gun-training courses are given. “And if you got a 21 profile” – a psychological exemption from the draft – “then there’s no way you will ever get a license” as a civilian.

According to the Ministry of Public Security, which is in charge of both the police force and the licensing of civilian firearms, a citizen must also show that he or she lives in a border region or in the West Bank or spends most of their time there in order to be eligible to carry a firearm.

“If you are a lawyer who lives in Jerusalem but only represents the citizens of [the settlement of] Kiryat Arba,” you might be eligible, Rabani said, by way of an example.

The police conduct a background check and pass the information on to the ministry’s Firearm Licensing Department, which also requires that applicants present a medical form signed by a physician. The form consists of 24 questions, ranging from a patient’s physical health to his or her history of substance abuse and psychiatric care.

“In Israel it is not a right to bear arms, but a privilege,” said Rabani, standing in front of a case of 9mm. handguns.”

Something to learn.

And while I am reading about guns, I am also reading about schools. We are not a cohesive society. Schools are vicious. How can we learn responsibility for one another if bulllying is still rampant at schools, if good students often say that they hate schools?

This, too, needs to be discussed. I am finishing “The Columbine” by David Cullen and plan to read another book, written by Harris/Klebold’s friend.

 

[rodentman]

Ah another politically charged subject I won't get into, for the same reasons I won't "debate" about Trump. But just some facts:

I am a staunch supporter of the 2nd amendment.
I am a firearms collector and hobbiest.
I own five rifles and seventy-seven handguns.
I belong to 3 gun ranges and shoot targets at least once a week.
I reload ammo for over 20 calibers and have an extensive workshop for that purpose. I started reloading in 1972.
I have a carry permit but rarely carry on my person. It just makes the laws for transport easier to follow with a permit.

The hobby is a lot of fun. There are always new load "recipes" to test and it is rewarding to have a positive result.

I think there are improvements that could be made to existing laws, and I don't agree 100% with the NRA's views.

You can cuss me out all you wish, call me names, say WHY, but I am just stating in general where I stand.

 

[Tekate]

I am a staunch supporter of human life.
I oppose the rampant ownership of guns. Mainly because of suicide and my experience
with it.
I am a registered democrat, I am anti religion, pro abortion, I am anti supply side economics.
I personally don't care about your hobby my problem is with
mentally ill, violent individuals having easy access to gun
I don't believe that if "bad guys have gun, we need good guys with them" I think
it's disingenuous and totally devoid of logic (in Vegas there could have been
a 'militia' of armed civilians and they couldn't reach the killer)
I'm willing to trade though. Guns for civilians - abortion rights for women.
I think the NRA should not be allowed to lobby public officials.
I disagree with everything the NRA stands for.
Glad you like your hobby, sounds quite expensive like diamonds.

Just stating where I stand.

Ah another politically charged subject I won't get into, for the same reasons I won't "debate" about Trump. But just some facts:

I am a staunch supporter of the 2nd amendment.
I am a firearms collector and hobbiest.
I own five rifles and seventy-seven handguns.
I belong to 3 gun ranges and shoot targets at least once a week.
I reload ammo for over 20 calibers and have an extensive workshop for that purpose. I started reloading in 1972.
I have a carry permit but rarely carry on my person. It just makes the laws for transport easier to follow with a permit.

The hobby is a lot of fun. There are always new load "recipes" to test and it is rewarding to have a positive result.

I think there are improvements that could be made to existing laws, and I don't agree 100% with the NRA's views.

You can cuss me out all you wish, call me names, say WHY, but I am just stating in general where I stand.

 

[rodentman]

And THAT'S why I don't waste my time debating the issue.

 

[monarch64]

Yet here you are, posting in threads you claim to be above posting in...why even bother coming into the threads and making your stance known then saying “oh but I refuse to discuss such things”? Seems like baiting to me...

 

[rodentman]

I am not going to take your bait.

 

[monarch64]

LOL touché!

 

[Calliecake]

Rodentman, Why did you feel it was so important to share your feelings on guns???

Thank goodness for the ignore feature on Pricescope


Great post @Tekate !!!

 

[Bron357]

And I just want to throw in this report I recently read.
An American Mum was accidentally shot in the back (while driving a car hauling a horse in a horse float) by her 3 year old who was sitting in the back seat.
Apparently she had her 3 year old UNRESTRAINED in the back seat and there was a loaded handgung lying on the floor of the back seat area which he picked up off the floor and shot her with.

This woman on one hand insists that she needs to carry a loaded handgun to protect herself and her family from “would be murderers” and yet she doesn’t even bother restraining her child safely in the car or have a loaded gun in a safe place out of reach of children.

Her irresponsibility could have seen them both killed, not by a “scary would be murderer” but by her own lack of thought and care.

 

[monarch64]

Little kids shoot their parents all the time here. Google search it you’ll get a bunch of results. But people who are avid gun owners DO NOT CARE just like they don’t care about mass shootings in schools etc. Ain’t nobody taking away their 2A!