Is it legal for restaurants to add automatic gratuity...

[Dancing Fire]

to my dinner bill? if yes, shouldn't it be before tax? IYO..what would be a fair %?

 

[justginger]

I don't know about the legalities, but it is a giant annoyance to me. The tipping custom encourages great service (that the States are internationally known for), and automatic gratuity negates that entirely. While there last, we had the most shocking service in Times Square and I was horrified to see that an automatic 18% had been added to my bill - no wonder she was so surly, slow, and unapologetic! I was really unimpressed.

 

[JewelFreak]

Ginger, you finally said what nobody does, delighted to see it! Media constantly bemoans our tipping system, equating it with all sorts of nasty motives. It does, however, account for the quality of service here compared to Europe. As with any job, if you're paid the same whether you do well or don't care, why bother to work harder? Service in Europe is frequently slow & uncaring if not outright unpleasant -- it's one of the main things Europeans complain about too. I had a summer job as a waitress while in college & worked hard & made very good money from tips, so it's not oppression unless the server makes it so.

DF -- the restaurant can add the tip but you are not legally obligated to pay that amount. You can subtract if service was poor or add if it was stellar. I took a group of customers to a fancy-Dan place near Lake Ontario once. The service was just AWFUL, bad enough to thoroughly embarrass me. The bill had 20% gratuity added but I left 10%. The manager mentioned it as we left & I told him it just hadn't deserved a 20% tip. He wasn't happy, but neither was I -- and I was the paying customer. Made me more resentful when they tried to strong-arm a big tip for crummy work.

--- Laurie

 

[Dancing Fire]

Ginger, you finally said what nobody does, delighted to see it! Media constantly bemoans our tipping system, equating it with all sorts of nasty motives. It does, however, account for the quality of service here compared to Europe. As with any job, if you're paid the same whether you do well or don't care, why bother to work harder? Service in Europe is frequently slow & uncaring if not outright unpleasant -- it's one of the main things Europeans complain about too. I had a summer job as a waitress while in college & worked hard & made very good money from tips, so it's not oppression unless the server makes it so.

DF -- the restaurant can add the tip but you are not legally obligated to pay that amount. You can subtract if service was poor or add if it was stellar. I took a group of customers to a fancy-Dan place near Lake Ontario once. The service was just AWFUL, bad enough to thoroughly embarrass me. The bill had 20% gratuity added but I left 10%. The manager mentioned it as we left & I told him it just hadn't deserved a 20% tip. He wasn't happy, but neither was I -- and I was the paying customer. Made me more resentful when they tried to strong-arm a big tip for crummy work.

--- Laurie

I invited 28 people for dinner at a Chinese restaurant that I frequent and when I received the bill I notice they have added 15% for tip... I dine at this restaurant at least twice a week and they know that I usually tip b/t 15-20%, so as I was paying the bill I told the waitress...thanks for saving me 5% on tip b/c I was going to tip you guys 20%,but since you felt that you only deserved a 15% tip then that is fine with me.

 

[Andelain]

I've seen it in some cities I've been to. I refused to pay it once, the waiter was rude. He got even ruder when I lowered the tip, so I took it all back.

Usually I tip higher than the usually added 17% if the service was good, but if it's added I just leave it as enough.

 

[sonnyjane]

I invited 28 people for dinner at a Chinese restaurant that I frequent and when I received the bill I notice they have added 15% for tip... I dine at this restaurant at least twice a week and they know that I usually tip b/t 15-20%, so as I was paying the bill I told the waitress...thanks for saving me 5% on tip b/c I was going to tip you guys 20%,but since you felt that you only deserved a 15% tip then that is fine with me.

Many restaurants do it for groups of 8 or more. While I also don't know the legalities, I do know after working at a restaurant that nothing stinks more than having a group of 10 or so rowdy customers that take up your table for two hours and then stiff you on your tip... Sure, a two-top can do the same thing, but it takes a lot more effort to serve 10 than it does 2.

 

[VRBeauty]

I invited 28 people for dinner at a Chinese restaurant that I frequent and when I received the bill I notice they have added 15% for tip... I dine at this restaurant at least twice a week and they know that I usually tip b/t 15-20%, so as I was paying the bill I told the waitress...thanks for saving me 5% on tip b/c I was going to tip you guys 20%,but since you felt that you only deserved a 15% tip then that is fine with me.

Many restaurants do it for groups of 8 or more. While I also don't know the legalities, I do know after working at a restaurant that nothing stinks more than having a group of 10 or so rowdy customers that take up your table for two hours and then stiff you on your tip... Sure, a two-top can do the same thing, but it takes a lot more effort to serve 10 than it does 2.

That's my experience also - most restaurants add 18% for large groups... and I have to say that I understand this. Years ago I had a couple of co-workers who regularly tipped next to nothing, or they conveniently forget about drinks, or forget to add tax on their share. With a large group it's easier for the cheapskates to get away with these tactics. One person who did this was an executive who was, on those occasions when I was in a a group with him, the big cheese at the table. Of course there are also those who regularly tip very well, but they shouldn't be expected to make up for the others.

I haven't seen a pre-determined gratuity added for smaller groups, although I have seen checks delivered with handy "tip guides."

 

[Andelain]

A lot of restaurants in Miami do that even for single and couple diners.

 

[CJ2008]

Most of the time when they add 15% it ends up costing me less, since on my own I usually leave a 20% tip.

So for the times when the waiter is average I don't have to agonize over whether to still tip him 20%.

However - it has not happened to me that this was added when I was unhappy or seriously annoyed with the service. I could see where it in that situation it is VERY annoying to have it added on and now I have expend effort and energy and a possible confrontation to make it lower.

So bottom line: should still be up to the customer. Or don't give the customer a hard time if they lower it. You can't have it both ways.

In general this applies only to small tables, maybe up to 4 people...any larger than that I could see the restaurant wanting to protect the waiter getting a decent amount...however...same thing applies though. If I am really unhappy with the service there is no reason why I should feel pressured to leave 18% if I want to leave 15%.

 

[kenny]

I wish they'd just charge more and pay better and shit-can the whole gratuity system.

I have to interact with a zillion other employes who are not on a tip system.

Expecting your customers to use their money to motivate employees to do their job well is lazy management.

 

[Dee*Jay]

I'm sure if it WEREN'T legal someone would have sued over it by now.

 

[kenny]

I won't patronize a restaurant that automatically adds the tip in and I call the manager to the table and tell her/him LOUDLY why I'm leaving.

There's one restaurant I've been loyal to for around 30 years.
Recently the waiter just KEPT the change as his tip … around 25%.
He came to our table, waved the cash at me, smiled, put it in his pocket and walked away.

I RAGED loudly at the manager about it.
Everyone stared.
I'll never be back.

Hope the waiter was fired.
I'll bet he got away with that many times with customers too 'nice' to do anything.

 

[justginger]

I wish they'd just charge more and pay better and shit-can the whole gratuity system.

I have to interact with a zillion other employes who are not on a tip system.

Expecting your customers to use their money to motivate employees to do their job well is lazy management.

I've lived with both systems, and can see both sides - but personally, I prefer the tipping system. The minimum wage here is nearly $17/hr, which I support completely, but my goodness are Aussie wait staff terrible. There is no motivation for them to do their jobs well. They don't do things explicitly WRONG (to the point of being addressed by management), but nor do they expend an extra iota of effort. I've had two exceptional servers in 9 years, and left them both extra tips, hoping they'd tell their coworkers, lol.

 

[Andelain]

I won't patronize a restaurant that automatically adds the tip in and I call the manager to the table and tell her/him LOUDLY why I'm leaving.

There's one restaurant I've been loyal to for around 30 years.
Recently the waiter just KEPT the change as his tip … around 25%.
He came to our table, waved the cash at me, smiled, put it in his pocket and walked away.

I RAGED loudly at the manager about it.
Everyone stared.
I'll never be back.

Hope the waiter was fired.
I'll bet he got away with that many times with customers too 'nice' to do anything.

Oh, I'd have been pissed too. I think I'd have also demanded my change back from that jerk.

 

[CJ2008]

Recently the waiter just KEPT the change as his tip … around 25%.

Wow.

I definitely would've asked him for my change back.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I'm sure if it WEREN'T legal someone would have sued over it by now.

Most American restaurants will disclose on their menu (party of 7 or more person) there will be gratuity added to the bill, but not with the Chinese restaurants in my town.

 

[ringbling17]

I don't know if its legal but I both like and dislike it. If I am with a group of friends, it's perfect bc we don't have to calculate anything.
Plus, they usually add only 15% whereas normally we would give 20% or more.

But, I once went to a restaurant with my husband and our four kids. They automatically charge gratuity for a party of 6 or more, but I didn't think it was fair bc my son was only 5 months at the time and didn't even eat the food bc he was only eating baby food at the time. I didn't use any of their utensils, etc bc I used a baby spoon that I brought and my sons bottles.
I didn't think it right that they charged me for 6 people when it was obvious that one was an infant.

But I think that was the waitress' fault.

We have never eaten there again.

 

[kenny]

I'm sure if it WEREN'T legal someone would have sued over it by now.

Most American restaurants will disclose on their menu (party of 7 or more person) there will be gratuity added to the bill, but not with the Chinese restaurants in my town.

Funny, the restaurant in which the waiter did the above is Chinese.
I would not have mentioned this if you had not singled out Chinese restaurants for having a better policy regarding gratuity …

Frankly, I think the national origin of the cuisine is not relevant to this discussion.
In every group there will be people who are groovy, and others who suck.

 

[gregchang35]

If they had removed the gratuity and then raised minimum wage.... imagine what the cost of food and services will be?

 

[Karl_K]

Thanks to the irs it has become a huge headache for them if the do.
As of January it can not be treated as a tip but as a service charge.
With greatly increased accounting requirements and higher taxes.

 

[hippi_pixi]

while i was in the US i felt that this was done to us due to our thick aussie accents if the tip wasn't automatically added on we were made aware that tip was expected. its a shame the staff arn't paid more so that tipping can go back to being a reward for good service rather than expectation

 

[movie zombie]

I wish they'd just charge more and pay better and shit-can the whole gratuity system.

I have to interact with a zillion other employes who are not on a tip system.

Expecting your customers to use their money to motivate employees to do their job well is lazy management.

I agree!
when in Australia we don't tip and we get great service.
why?
because their restaurant workers get paid a decent wage AND they are respected as workers.

 

[kenny]

I wish they'd just charge more and pay better and shit-can the whole gratuity system.

I have to interact with a zillion other employes who are not on a tip system.

Expecting your customers to use their money to motivate employees to do their job well is lazy management.

I agree!
when in Australia we don't tip and we get great service.
why?
because their restaurant workers get paid a decent wage AND they are respected as workers.

But here in America everyone wants everything CHEEEEEAP and they don't give a crap out who gets hurt.
Can you say, WalMart?

 

[misskittycat]

If they had removed the gratuity and then raised minimum wage.... imagine what the cost of food and services will be?

Probably what we pay here in Australia! So many people are horrified by the prices here. I know I look forward to eating out more in the US because it is so much cheaper.

My husband and I often refer to Australia as Switzerland in the pacific.

 

[TooPatient]

I wish they'd just charge more and pay better and shit-can the whole gratuity system.

I have to interact with a zillion other employes who are not on a tip system.

Expecting your customers to use their money to motivate employees to do their job well is lazy management.

I agree!
when in Australia we don't tip and we get great service.
why?
because their restaurant workers get paid a decent wage AND they are respected as workers.

But here in America everyone wants everything CHEEEEEAP and they don't give a crap out who gets hurt.
Can you say, WalMart?

I've got to say this is a tough issue for me!

Setting aside all other issues within this topic (minimum wage, employee treatment, etc, etc) and just looking at the bolded section of your comment:

Some people can't afford more than CHEEEEEEAP. My mother made more than minimum wage but thanks to housing costing what it does and some bad choices on her part (alcoholic...), there was never much money for food or clothing. I rarely got any new clothing (even a trip to the thrift store was a treat!) so a few things from WalMart or K-Mart was the best I ever got.
Eating out was special. We got to have McDonald's for breakfast on my b-day!

So if the stores and restaurants are forced to pay more and have to increase prices to stay in business, who is getting hurt?


Now that I am older and in a far better position, I have the luxury of only giving my business to those who have practices I agree with. I have the luxury of leaving an extra big tip for a job well done. I even have the luxury of buying some organic foods and shopping local goods (when available).

I couldn't have done that 5 or 10 years ago. I had a few YEARS where I lived on $30 per MONTH for groceries. If the low-end stores I shopped at were forced to raise their prices, I don't know what I would have done. A single bag of pasta ($0.79) can only stretch so many days...



Anyway...
I have no perfect answer. I've worked minimum wage jobs. I've made people coffee as a Starbucks employee (loved getting up at 3am to ride my bicycle 5+ miles to open the store since busses didn't run that early ). I've had my hours cut and rolled all the change from my tips to make my rent payment. I've made sandwiches for ungrateful people and others who thought we were friends so they didn't bother with tips.
It sucks.
But I've also gotten a little past that and found that I had to have some new clothes to look presentable at my new office job -- WalMart to the rescue with a skirt & jacket for under $20!
I don't know how (or even IF) I could have made it into something better without the low-price stores out there.

 

[ckrickett]

I was a server/bartender for 10 years. I've lived off tips for most of my adult life. I worked at one restaurant that had gratuity included. To get a job there you HAD to have good references and they were VERY VERY strict on how you served tables. Food had to arrive hot, never was a cup to be empty, and Heaven forbid if you got their order wrong. So although the tip was already added, there was absolutely NO slacking off allowed. Also if customers thought they didm't get the best service they could contend the tip, and if the manager thought they were right, the tip was removed. THAT is the type of restaurant where automatic added gratuity is ok IMO, and one of the better types of restaurants to be employed at.

Customer doesn't lose anything, and server isn't worried about not getting a tip.

Tipping culture in the states is sososoSO messed up. It is completely unfair on both sides.

 

[MishB]

If they had removed the gratuity and then raised minimum wage.... imagine what the cost of food and services will be?

Probably what we pay here in Australia! So many people are horrified by the prices here. I know I look forward to eating out more in the US because it is so much cheaper.

My husband and I often refer to Australia as Switzerland in the pacific.

I've always been confused about this, we travel to the US quite a lot and I don't really think the price of food is that much lower.

For example - a burger (bacon cheeseburger) at TGI Fridays here is $19.95, that's the price and you don't have to pay a cent more. What is the equivalent at a TGIF in the US? Including tax and tip? Is it really that much less?

Coffee here is cheaper, I know, and so is wine.

I know we've spent a whole lot more on high end restaurants in the US than here at home, once tax and tips are added in.

I don't know who is pocketing the extra in the US that here in Australia would be paid out in wages, are restaurant owners in the US making huge profits?

 

[justginger]

If they had removed the gratuity and then raised minimum wage.... imagine what the cost of food and services will be?

Probably what we pay here in Australia! So many people are horrified by the prices here. I know I look forward to eating out more in the US because it is so much cheaper.

My husband and I often refer to Australia as Switzerland in the pacific.

I've always been confused about this, we travel to the US quite a lot and I don't really think the price of food is that much lower.

For example - a burger (bacon cheeseburger) at TGI Fridays here is $19.95, that's the price and you don't have to pay a cent more. What is the equivalent at a TGIF in the US? Including tax and tip? Is it really that much less?

Coffee here is cheaper, I know, and so is wine.

I know we've spent a whole lot more on high end restaurants in the US than here at home, once tax and tips are added in.

I don't know who is pocketing the extra in the US that here in Australia would be paid out in wages, are restaurant owners in the US making huge profits?

It depends on where you are in the States. In Perth, a regular pasta meal will cost me $24-30. Where I grew up, it would be around $8-10. Huge difference, even with a tip added on to that American meal. In NYC, it's likely to be around the same as Perth.

I find it astounding that anyone has received what they consider to be really good service in Australia. I've had what I consider to be great service about 4 times in 8.5 years. In the States I get that level of service weekly.

 

[MishB]

We regularly receive good service in the restaurants we frequent, but I agree that in more casual cafes it can be unreliable, student waiters etc.

I guess it also depends on what you consider good service. I don't particularly like the obsequious service that is common in America, I don't want to know my server's name or engage in a prolonged conversation and have to laugh at his/her jokes. Just take my order and bring the right things in a timely manner, otherwise please be as invisible as possible.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Bump...
Is it legal in Ca. ? b/c some restaurants do (add 18%) and some restaurants don't.