Interfaith Marriages/Relationships

[somethingshiny]

I agree that it is astounding that many people know so little of other religions (and sometimes of their own.) If millions of people in this world believe something, surely it is worth a small investment of time to understand WHY they believe that way. Even in my own family I''ve been looked down upon for investigating other theistic and non-theistic beliefs. They saw it as "looking for something better" than in just understanding mankind.


An example of this is happening on this thread. There have been several people "jumped at" for no real reason, IMO. We all know that religion and politics are a no-no, and this is why.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 3/8/2010 3:36:17 AM
Author: FrekeChild

I would not be able to be in a relationship with anyone who had anything more than a very casual relationship with religion. I cannot talk about religion with anyone who is not open-minded about other religions, and is not adamant that their religion is the best. They are all different, but equal.

This exactly.

DH is Catholic and I''m Lutheran, so I guess technically we have an interfaith marriage. However, our two religions are very similar, and neither of us is practicing, so it hasn''t been much of a problem for us.

DH would never ask/expect me to convert to Catholicism, and I''m not sure that I could if he ever did ask. Fortunately for me, DH is not a very devout Catholic. I''m not entirely sure that we could have gotten married if he were. There are certain issues upon which the Catholic church and I disagree mightily.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 3/6/2010 2:16:03 AM
Author: kenny

If you really really really believe in a faith with all your heart how can you be married to someone who really really really believes another faith with all their heart?

From a historical perspective, Kenny's question makes a lot of sense. For many many centuries in western Europe (and right now in many places around the world where people still consider religion to be a matter of life and death) people would never have considered marrying outside of their faiths. During those centuries, people were willing to be undergo torture and to be burned at the stake rather than to renounce their religions! We people of western Europe are just not used to taking religion that seriously in the 20th and 21st centuries (or, indeed, in the centuries since the 18th and the Age of Reason). Our perspective now is so different that the average person of the 16th or 17th century would find it very hard to fathom.


AGBF

 

[kenny]

Date: 3/8/2010 3:10:21 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 3/6/2010 2:16:03 AM
Author: kenny
If you really really really believe in a faith with all your heart how can you be married to someone who really really really believes another faith with all their heart?

From a historical perspective, Kenny's question makes a lot of sense.
AGBF

Of course it makes a lot of sense.

Let me explain . . .

 

[Puppmom]

Both DH and I are Atheist. I was raised Catholic and DH was raised, well, a lot of things. He had a teenage sister with a lot of problems so his parents tried out several religious paths in an attempt to *fix* her. Unfortunately, this was at the expense of DH and his younger sister. At this point, his parents don''t practice any religion.

Anyway, as an Atheist, I couldn''t marry someone who was religious. I imagine that if you are religious, it''s an integral part of your life and marrying an Atheist just wouldn''t make sense. From my perspective, while I can and do carry on personal relationships with people of all religions and am respectful of their beliefs, I could not raise children with someone who actively practiced any religion. I have friends who are married and one is Atheist and the other is Catholic. They constantly encounter conflicts and the Atheist husband often feels *bullied* into participating in religious traditions for his DD. It''s just really sticky.

 

[Ella]

Hi everyone,

This thread is toeing the line for no religious discussions on Pricescope. Please keep it very general without discussion about religion itself in order for it to stay active.

 

[Novel]

Date: 3/7/2010 8:19:17 PM
Author: IndyLady

Date: 3/7/2010 7:08:02 PM

Author: elle_chris

If I''m going to be totally honest, I don''t believe that someone who chooses to marry outside of their faith is deeply religious to start with. I''m not saying they don''t have a belief in God, just not religious.


So I don''t know why they would care whether or not their kids are relgious?

I have to respectfully, but strongly disagree; I think that deeply religious individuals, even of different faiths, can often relate to one another even more so than individuals in the same faith that do not actively practice. I don''t think that being deeply religious and loving someone of another faith are mutually exclusive...if they were, I wouldn''t have ever posed this thread. My SO and I have an incredibly similar value system, just with different titles. There are some differences in the way we think about faith, and different cultural traditions, but I''ve never met anyone of my own faith that thinks about things exactly as I do.


Why would I care if my kids were religious? I care more about the values that my children have somewhat more than the religion, but I can''t really say because I don''t have children and its easy to make up hypotheticals and real life rarely ends up like the situations that are imagined. Would I care if they picked another faith? I think so; because, when it boils down to it, I think mine makes the most sense. That''s why I''m a part of it. But, really, I can''t really know until the time comes.

I think there is another side to this. I''m a Jew, SO is nothing (raised Lutheran but deeply anti-religion). My grandparents are Holocaust survivors and I''m what is often referred to as a "professional Jew", meaning my work is related to my Judaism, sort of.

I''m not religious - I don''t know that I have religious beliefs, but to my core, I''m a Jew. It has been very hard for me to be with someone who isn''t, so Indy, I understand where you''re coming from. Like you, my values are the same as him, but who and what I am is not. We decided in the very beginning that our kids would be Jewish and we wouldn''t have Christmas in our house, because otherwise I couldn''t be with him. He didn''t mind, as long as we go to his family''s for Christmas and as long as our kids get what he calls a "cosmopolitan education," meaning no yeshiva or day school.

I never intended to be with a non-Jew, I really didn''t. And its still something I wish were easier, but I love him and I don''t think there is anyone like him or that I''d have a relationship like ours with, so I didn''t know what else to do. I don''t want my kids to be religious, but I want them to be Jews. To know they''re Jews, to be connected to the history and the tradition. I wish my relationship was interfaith, but it is.

I think one of the things that makes this hard is what some of you were getting at, especially Cehra, that its not just about if your beliefs are different but about the distance it can put between you.

And now that I see Ella''s warning, hope this is ok! I''m just glad someone is talking about this, because its on my mind a lot!

 

[Indylady]

Date: 3/8/2010 3:10:21 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 3/6/2010 2:16:03 AM

Author: kenny


If you really really really believe in a faith with all your heart how can you be married to someone who really really really believes another faith with all their heart?

From a historical perspective, Kenny''s question makes a lot of sense. For many many centuries in western Europe (and right now in many places around the world where people still consider religion to be a matter of life and death) people would never have considered marrying outside of their faiths. During those centuries, people were willing to be undergo torture and to be burned at the stake rather than to renounce their religions! We people of western Europe are just not used to taking religion that seriously in the 20th and 21st centuries (or, indeed, in the centuries since the 18th and the Age of Reason). Our perspective now is so different that the average person of the 16th or 17th century would find it very hard to fathom.



AGBF

History is full of conversions, sometimes mass conversions, of inter-faith marriages to cause alliances and peace, of changing boundaries and lines, even centuries ago.

 

[geckodani]

Date: 3/6/2010 2:16:03 AM
Author: kenny

If you really really really believe in a faith with all your heart how can you be married to someone who really really really believes another faith with all their heart?

This. Exactly. 100%

To marry someone that does not believe as you do? That... would be heartwrenching, IMO. Most religions have beliefs about the afterlife that are religion specific. I want my husband in this life, and the next!

 

[Indylady]

Date: 3/8/2010 3:33:31 PM
Author: Novel

I think there is another side to this. I''m a Jew, SO is nothing (raised Lutheran but deeply anti-religion). My grandparents are Holocaust survivors and I''m what is often referred to as a ''professional Jew'', meaning my work is related to my Judaism, sort of.


I''m not religious - I don''t know that I have religious beliefs, but to my core, I''m a Jew. It has been very hard for me to be with someone who isn''t, so Indy, I understand where you''re coming from. Like you, my values are the same as him, but who and what I am is not. We decided in the very beginning that our kids would be Jewish and we wouldn''t have Christmas in our house, because otherwise I couldn''t be with him. He didn''t mind, as long as we go to his family''s for Christmas and as long as our kids get what he calls a ''cosmopolitan education,'' meaning no yeshiva or day school.


I never intended to be with a non-Jew, I really didn''t. And its still something I wish were easier, but I love him and I don''t think there is anyone like him or that I''d have a relationship like ours with, so I didn''t know what else to do. I don''t want my kids to be religious, but I want them to be Jews. To know they''re Jews, to be connected to the history and the tradition. I wish my relationship was interfaith, but it is.


I think one of the things that makes this hard is what some of you were getting at, especially Cehra, that its not just about if your beliefs are different but about the distance it can put between you.


And now that I see Ella''s warning, hope this is ok! I''m just glad someone is talking about this, because its on my mind a lot!

+10

 

[yssie]

FI''s brother (the most observant Jew in his family - which I don''t think is saying much) married a Catholic - I believe she comes from a strongly observant family, I know there were some objections from extended family to their marriage. They have decided to raise their children in the Jewish faith, and there are no indications of her Catholic beliefs in the house.


I will admit that I used to worry that FI''s family would expect us to make the same choice for our children, and I would not - could not - do that. I do expect that our kids will question our faiths, as loosely as we conform to them.. I also expect that they will question religion in general. I hope that we''ll be able to raise them to acknowledge all faiths, and cherish the rich cultures, histories, and lore of ours in particular, but that''s about the extent of it.


Rather like the way I enjoy Greek mythology but don''t actually believe in it, I suppose. I remember a thread on PS a few years ago where a man was planning on proposing and bought the ring, but then called it off because they had previously agreed to raise any children in his faith and his faith only, and she had just come to the realization that this was not something she was comfortable with. That thread made me so sad.

 

[Novel]

Date: 3/8/2010 4:52:10 PM
Author: yssie
FI''s brother (the most observant Jew in his family - which I don''t think is saying much) married a Catholic - I believe she comes from a strongly observant family, I know there were some objections from extended family to their marriage. They have decided to raise their children in the Jewish faith, and there are no indications of her Catholic beliefs in the house.



I will admit that I used to worry that FI''s family would expect us to make the same choice for our children, and I would not - could not - do that. I do expect that our kids will question our faiths, as loosely as we conform to them.. I also expect that they will question religion in general. I hope that we''ll be able to raise them to acknowledge all faiths, and cherish the rich cultures, histories, and lore of ours in particular, but that''s about the extent of it.




Rather like the way I enjoy Greek mythology but don''t actually believe in it, I suppose. I remember a thread on PS a few years ago where a man was planning on proposing and bought the ring, but then called it off because they had previously agreed to raise any children in his faith and his faith only, and she had just come to the realization that this was not something she was comfortable with. That thread made me so sad.

Oh, you just brought to light so many of my fears, but also my hopes. I''m terrified that one day he''ll realize he can''t do it this way. Not that he''ll want to do it his way, but just that watching his wife and kids go to temple (where he goes too on the holidays and is totally welcome) is lonely or not right for him. I understand why people don''t want interfaith relationships, they''re hard! Why make marriage harder? But for me, when I don''t worry about him going somewhere different than I am after life or anything like that, its worth it.

I also just realized I left out a "don''t" in my previous post. Oy.

Like you yssie, I want my kids to connect to our history and background, but I want them to relate to all people. I would be sad, though (and this is ridiculous, I realize) if my children didn''t marry Jews. I guess I want what my mom wanted for me, a Jewish life, a Jewish home, Jewish kids. She realized, though, when her own marriage fell apart, that what a man is as not as important as who a man is. As long as the kids are Jewish

And Indy, big big hug. If your faith backgrounds are what I think they may be (and I hope I''m not overstepping, but coming off what you said earlier), I think your families should be proud, because you''re bridging something huge and you''re respectful and humane enough to see each other as people, not as emblems of two cultures that have many things in common but many things holding them apart, too.

 

[yssie]

Date: 3/8/2010 6:15:55 PM
Author: Novel

Date: 3/8/2010 4:52:10 PM
Author: yssie
FI''s brother (the most observant Jew in his family - which I don''t think is saying much) married a Catholic - I believe she comes from a strongly observant family, I know there were some objections from extended family to their marriage. They have decided to raise their children in the Jewish faith, and there are no indications of her Catholic beliefs in the house.



I will admit that I used to worry that FI''s family would expect us to make the same choice for our children, and I would not - could not - do that. I do expect that our kids will question our faiths, as loosely as we conform to them.. I also expect that they will question religion in general. I hope that we''ll be able to raise them to acknowledge all faiths, and cherish the rich cultures, histories, and lore of ours in particular, but that''s about the extent of it.




Rather like the way I enjoy Greek mythology but don''t actually believe in it, I suppose. I remember a thread on PS a few years ago where a man was planning on proposing and bought the ring, but then called it off because they had previously agreed to raise any children in his faith and his faith only, and she had just come to the realization that this was not something she was comfortable with. That thread made me so sad.

Oh, you just brought to light so many of my fears, but also my hopes. I''m terrified that one day he''ll realize he can''t do it this way. Not that he''ll want to do it his way, but just that watching his wife and kids go to temple (where he goes too on the holidays and is totally welcome) is lonely or not right for him. I understand why people don''t want interfaith relationships, they''re hard! Why make marriage harder? But for me, when I don''t worry about him going somewhere different than I am after life or anything like that, its worth it.

I also just realized I left out a ''don''t'' in my previous post. Oy.

Like you yssie, I want my kids to connect to our history and background, but I want them to relate to all people. I would be sad, though (and this is ridiculous, I realize) if my children didn''t marry Jews. I guess I want what my mom wanted for me, a Jewish life, a Jewish home, Jewish kids. She realized, though, when her own marriage fell apart, that what a man is as not as important as who a man is. As long as the kids are Jewish

And Indy, big big hug. If your faith backgrounds are what I think they may be (and I hope I''m not overstepping, but coming off what you said earlier), I think your families should be proud, because you''re bridging something huge and you''re respectful and humane enough to see each other as people, not as emblems of two cultures that have many things in common but many things holding them apart, too.

I think this is how a lot of my family is feeling right now. Historically they''ve never had much in the way of money, so they held family and culture very dear.. I''m the first person in our entire family who won''t be marrying a Brahmin. Our kids will experience the same things as my parents, my grandparents.. the same holidays, the same celebrations, but because they''ll be biracial, interfaith, and living in the US surrounded by a very different culture - it won''t be the same, and I think a lot of people - even though they love FI - are sad that that long tradition of caste and family purity is ending here.


I wrote a novel but deleted it because it was a bit personal and probably violated every PS rule against religion and politics.. I do think it''s interesting, though, when people say that you''re attracted to people who look like you and who were brought up like you... that''s definitely not the case for me! Every single man I''ve ever found attractive has been tall, blond and blue/green eyed, and "westernised" - it doesn''t get more different

 

[Lilac]

Date: 3/8/2010 6:15:55 PM
Author: Novel

Oh, you just brought to light so many of my fears, but also my hopes. I''m terrified that one day he''ll realize he can''t do it this way. Not that he''ll want to do it his way, but just that watching his wife and kids go to temple (where he goes too on the holidays and is totally welcome) is lonely or not right for him. I understand why people don''t want interfaith relationships, they''re hard! Why make marriage harder? But for me, when I don''t worry about him going somewhere different than I am after life or anything like that, its worth it.

I could never marry someone of a different faith or religion, but I am an observant Orthodox Jew and part of that for me involves my husband being an observant Orthodox Jew as well. Other people can make their own choices for what''s best for themselves - if someone can handle their spouse having such different beliefs then it''s for them to decide. I don''t think there''s anything wrong with it, it just personally is not something I would do myself.

In one of my classes last week this subject actually came up. My professor was telling us how she has a friend who was Jewish and married someone who was not Jewish. After extensive discussions about it, they agreed that they would raise their children Jewish. He was 100% confident that he was ok with the decision and he would be happy to raise his children Jewish with his wife. Fast forward a few years. They had a baby. She thought they were raising the baby Jewish (as they had agreed upon) but he realized he couldn''t handle it and secretly brought the baby to be baptized. She found out and it led to a very messy divorce.

I''m not trying to scare anyone with the story. I''m sure most of the time if the topic of what to do when children come into the picture has been discussed it turns out just fine. I have seen many interfaith marriages and families very happy with no problems or issues *at all*. But it''s definitely something that should be talked about extensively if religion of the children is very important to either side.

 

[Indylady]

Thanks for the hugs Novel! Big hugs back to you

. (I do think that you've figured me out, I don't mind at all!) I think I am, nearly exactly, in your boat so to speak. When you said, "what a man is as not as important as who a man is" I knew you knew where I was; it reminded me a little of a PS'ers signature which is something about a song in your heart and having someone sing it back to you. I think the signature is meant for a couple, but I think it can be meant for friends too. I think its one of the first times I've heard someone else articulate this feeling and mindset.

The way I see it, I'm using my brain, and my religion tells me to do just that. When I look at this man, I see that he's got it all, integrity, compassion, and a whole list of other qualities that someone from my faith is supposed to have. But the thing is, not all, or even most, people from my faith actually adhere or have these qualities that I was looking for. I finally found someone who did, and bazinga, he's not of the same religion as I am! Go figure?

ETA: I have the same fears. But, faith does flucuate, and that gives me a little comfort. My dad was far more religious as a kid than he is now, and my mom is the opposite. Sure, its still a fear that things won't go as planned, but I'm trying to wait for the time to come. I have friends that are atheist/agnostic with religious parents (like Freke) and vice versa, and while parent involvement in religion does have a huge impact on a child's religion, I try not to stress about it, but it doesn't worry me too much because its still a hypothetical. I bet that when it happens, it will be very different from the way I imagined it.

 

[Novel]

Date: 3/8/2010 6:57:45 PM
Author: Lilac

Date: 3/8/2010 6:15:55 PM
Author: Novel

Oh, you just brought to light so many of my fears, but also my hopes. I''m terrified that one day he''ll realize he can''t do it this way. Not that he''ll want to do it his way, but just that watching his wife and kids go to temple (where he goes too on the holidays and is totally welcome) is lonely or not right for him. I understand why people don''t want interfaith relationships, they''re hard! Why make marriage harder? But for me, when I don''t worry about him going somewhere different than I am after life or anything like that, its worth it.

I could never marry someone of a different faith or religion, but I am an observant Orthodox Jew and part of that for me involves my husband being an observant Orthodox Jew as well. Other people can make their own choices for what''s best for themselves - if someone can handle their spouse having such different beliefs then it''s for them to decide. I don''t think there''s anything wrong with it, it just personally is not something I would do myself.

In one of my classes last week this subject actually came up. My professor was telling us how she has a friend who was Jewish and married someone who was not Jewish. After extensive discussions about it, they agreed that they would raise their children Jewish. He was 100% confident that he was ok with the decision and he would be happy to raise his children Jewish with his wife. Fast forward a few years. They had a baby. She thought they were raising the baby Jewish (as they had agreed upon) but he realized he couldn''t handle it and secretly brought the baby to be baptized. She found out and it led to a very messy divorce.

I''m not trying to scare anyone with the story. I''m sure most of the time if the topic of what to do when children come into the picture has been discussed it turns out just fine. I have seen many interfaith marriages and families very happy with no problems or issues *at all*. But it''s definitely something that should be talked about extensively if religion of the children is very important to either side.

Lilac, I certainly understand that. I''ve often thought that if my boyfriend had religious beliefs, this couldn''t work. But he doesn''t. His strong feelings against them, though, also give me pause. I always thought I''d find a Jewish man who understood me and understood the Jewish part of me, too. But I found this guy first - and how do you say goodbye to the real one in hopes of finding one just like him, but Jewish?

Like Indy, I have the fears of that, too. Every coworker of mine who is successfully raising Jewish kids with a non-Jew helps me breathe easier, but there are as many as not. We talk about it a lot, a lot a lot, but I know you can''t know until you''re in there. Sometimes I feel naive for being willing to try. And sometimes I feel like I''m betraying everything my family went through and my whole history, but that feeling fades.

Oh, Indy, I know what you mean. It was such a relief to see your thread! I don''t speak up much in Hangout because I''m kind of private, but this was something I had to chime in on. I hate to watch people feel alone in it, especially since I feel alone in it. Does your SO have the same kind of feelings? I think part of what makes it hard for me is that mine doesn''t, just me. And yes, I totally agree. I was always told to find a loving, kind, respectful, intelligent man. And I did, but then he isn''t what I am...

Nothing ever goes as planned, right? All we can do is try.

 

[jewelz617]

Date: 3/7/2010 8:12:05 PM
Author: MakingTheGrade
Personally, my biggest concern of sending my kids to church, is them being taught things like ''don''t do that, God says it''s bad'', I feel like it''s just an excuse to not have a serious conversation with children about the deeper moral/societal reasons to not do things. I also think it''s a dangerous mindset to have (i.e. I can impinge on the rights of others because God says I''m right). I understand that it''s just easy to tell kids things like that to get them to behave and to believe what you believe, but it makes me nervous none the less.


If hubby takes my kids to Catholic church, we will be having very thorough debriefings on what they learned that day when they come home! The church isn''t exactly known to give all sides of a story, and I want to make sure my kids learn to make informed decisions and the value of different perspectives and opinions.

I can only comment based on my many years in a Catholic family, so don''t take this as me being defensive or anything. Just to get that out of the way. I had to go to church every Sunday for 16 years, and I was still expected to be accountable for my own actions. I was given very specific reasons why not to misbehave and they had little to do with God. All the life lessons I received were typical of most kids (if you steal, you hurt the person you stole from. If you lie, people won''t trust you. If you cheat on a test, you hurt yourself by not learning). I do believe that most people who take their kids to church don''t leave all the parenting responsibility to "God" but rather, use it as a moral compass based on how they incorporate their faith into every day life situations.

I am no longer a practicing Catholic for various reasons, but I think sometimes the church in general gets a bad rap and people thinking church goers are hoisting everything on God. In reality, many families look to church to strengthen their family unit, not just blindly lean on it for parental guidance.

 

[loriken214]

Date: 3/8/2010 4:25:25 PM
Author: geckodani

Date: 3/6/2010 2:16:03 AM
Author: kenny

If you really really really believe in a faith with all your heart how can you be married to someone who really really really believes another faith with all their heart?

This. Exactly. 100%

To marry someone that does not believe as you do? That... would be heartwrenching, IMO. Most religions have beliefs about the afterlife that are religion specific. I want my husband in this life, and the next!

My thoughts exactly! DH is Methodist and I am Baptist. We married in the Methodist church. Our beliefs are compatable.

I have an open mind where my friends are concerned and respect their beliefs.

Lori

 

[Smurfysmiles]

I'm Lutheran, DH is Catholic.
We both keep our same beliefs and focus on the commonalities of our faiths.
We will allow our children to have any faith that works best for them

eta: we usually attend lutheran ceremonies so that I am allowed to partake in communion and everything else. I did go to my first Catholic service the other day and it was extremely overwhelming. First thing out of my mouth "I like their water fountain!" and then watched in shock as dh made the cross with it on his forehead lol. Luckily after that he was able to explain any questions I had.