Interesting old necklace. Any info appreciated!

[Ellen]

This belonged to my grandmother. My mom tells the story that it was bought at an estate sale in CA many years ago. She seems to think it might be worth something. I have no idea if this story is true or not, she seems to remember sonme things differently than the actual facts sometimes.

It has not been cleaned, as I have no idea what it''s truly made out of, though it looks like some type of gold (but does gold turn green? it has green areas), so I''m waiting. There are no markings on it, except for what looks like a date on the clasp, which I have a picture of. If anyone has any info, I would greatly appreciate hearing.

 

[Ellen]

Close up. It''s a bird sitting on a nest.

 

[Ellen]

Side view.

 

[Ellen]

The back, and you can see where the middle tassle can be taken off.

 

[Ellen]

The clasp.

 

[Ellen]

The date. I wonder what it means!!

 

[Ellen]

Last one, catching the sun. So pretty!

 

[Lorelei]

Really neat necklace El !

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/31/2008 12:18:05 PM
Author: Lorelei
Really neat necklace El !

Thanks. Isn''t it different!?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/31/2008 12:34:27 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 8/31/2008 12:18:05 PM
Author: Lorelei
Really neat necklace El !

Thanks. Isn''t it different!?

''Tis - I really like it!

 

[oldmancoyote]

I wonder if it is in part gilt copper - this would explain the green bits around the soldered areas (at least, that's where they seem to be in the photos) and the coppery finish on parts of the pendant. I am almost certain the middle tassel and the nest are silver.

I read the date as Dec 2nd, which would mean it's a US or UK piece.

Very unusual - and pretty. Does the whole pendant detach and form a brooch?

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Pretty nifty! Wish I had something more helpful to add about origin/metals....

cheers--Sharon

 

[Harriet]

Neat! Let''s wait for jewelerman. If only Nicrez were still around (she''s well, but busy).

 

[marcy]

Very cool! I was thinking copper too.

 

[jewelerman]

Date: 8/31/2008 11:58:59 AM
Author:Ellen
This belonged to my grandmother. My mom tells the story that it was bought at an estate sale in CA many years ago. She seems to think it might be worth something. I have no idea if this story is true or not, she seems to remember sonme things differently than the actual facts sometimes.

It has not been cleaned, as I have no idea what it''s truly made out of, though it looks like some type of gold (but does gold turn green? it has green areas), so I''m waiting. There are no markings on it, except for what looks like a date on the clasp, which I have a picture of. If anyone has any info, I would greatly appreciate hearing.

FUN PIECE!This is what im thinkin...The tasseled necklace is late victorian(1880s to 1900)The tri-gold birds in nature motif was very popular with young women at this time period.It is hand made and looks like it contains yellow,green,rose gold and silver.It may be a heavy gold filled piece as there was an abundance of gold filled jewelry on the market in larger citys or catologs.The green is copper staining that comes from alloys with a high copper content or gold filled jewelry...the discolored tassel may be gold filled that has come in contact with low quality purfumes.It is not uncommon to see genuine low karat colored gold being soldered to a gold filled base to save money for the buyer....the middle tassel is removable.Im not sure what dec 2nd means...interesting piece of jewelry.

 

[jewelerman]

Date: 9/1/2008 3:13:35 AM
Author: jewelerman

Date: 8/31/2008 11:58:59 AM
Author:Ellen
This belonged to my grandmother. My mom tells the story that it was bought at an estate sale in CA many years ago. She seems to think it might be worth something. I have no idea if this story is true or not, she seems to remember sonme things differently than the actual facts sometimes.

It has not been cleaned, as I have no idea what it''s truly made out of, though it looks like some type of gold (but does gold turn green? it has green areas), so I''m waiting. There are no markings on it, except for what looks like a date on the clasp, which I have a picture of. If anyone has any info, I would greatly appreciate hearing.

FUN PIECE!This is what im thinkin...The tasseled necklace is late victorian(1880s to 1900)The tri-gold birds in nature motif was very popular with young women at this time period.It is hand made and looks like it contains yellow,green,rose gold and silver.It may be a heavy gold filled piece as there was an abundance of gold filled jewelry on the market in larger citys or catologs.The green is copper staining that comes from alloys with a high copper content or gold filled jewelry...the discolored tassel may be gold filled that has come in contact with low quality purfumes.It is not uncommon to see genuine low karat colored gold being soldered to a gold filled base to save money for the buyer....the middle tassel is removable.Im not sure what dec 2nd means...interesting piece of jewelry.

after thought...the clasp is great!the bird can be seen because women worn their hair up in public,showing the back of the neck...dont clean this piece until it can be determined what metals are in the piece...the more i look at it ...the more i think its gold filled with low karat elements attatched.The enamel adds good drama.

 

[jewelerman]

Date: 8/31/2008 8:00:54 PM
Author: Harriet
Neat! Let''s wait for jewelerman. If only Nicrez were still around (she''s well, but busy).

Tell Nicrez that we would like an appearance once in a while!We miss her!

 

[pyramid]

The leaves and the fact there is maybe rose or green gold, make me wonder about Blackhills Gold? No berries though! Jewelerman?

December 2nd may have been an anniversary or special occasion the necklace was given as a gift on, maybe?

 

[Harriet]

Date: 9/1/2008 3:24:17 AM
Author: jewelerman
Tell Nicrez that we would like an appearance once in a while!We miss her!

As do I. I haven''t seen that woman in months.

 

[Ellen]

jewelerman and all, thanks so much for your input! I was thinking it had different types of gold too. And very interesting about the possible reason for the tassle discoloration, I was wondering about that. And yes, the clasp would be neat for wearing the hair up.

As far as I can tell, you can''t detach the necklace and outer tassles (easily) from the center piece.


This will go in the bank box for now, and I will go in search of a good jewelry appraiser so I can find out more about it, and how to clean it.

Thanks again!

 

[Itgirl76]

Is the back of the pendant a pin??

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/1/2008 12:26:43 PM
Author: Itgirl76
Is the back of the pendant a pin??

It is. I would guess the necklace and tassles were added at some point. But only the middle tassle can be intentionally removed, the rest is permanently attached.

 

[katebar]

Ellen I LOVE all your amazing family treasured. They are really special

 

[innerkitten]

Thats cool! I love jewelry with animals in the design. is it victorian?

 

[bee*]

I love it-it''s to unusual!

 

[Ellen]

Thanks kate, ik and bee!

ik, from jewelerman''s description, he seems to think that yes, it''s from the victorian period.

 

[glitterata]

Oh, I love this!

Here's my somewhat confident guess: It's made up of elements of jewelery from the late 19th century (Victorian era). The central piece was originally a "watch pin"--you would hook your watch to the hook on the back and pin it to your dress. The clasp on the back of the watch pin dates it to the 1890s-1900s, but the style looks a little older to me, perhaps the 1880s, so the clasp could perhaps have been updated later. (Or maybe not--would that have messed up the enamel in the front?)

The chains might originally have been part of a watch chain. It's hard for me to tell the scale; if they're thick and heavy they could have been from a man's watch chain, if more delicate, a woman's.

Or the chains could have been part of a popular form of necklace that consisted of a wide, usually flat chain called a "book chain" that would loop around the neck and attach in the front to a decorative clasp, which often had a cameo on it. The clasp would have two bits of additional chain hanging from it in the front. The idea was to look as though the clasp was a slide. This necklace imitates that look, but the round (rather than flat) chain and the watch-pin centerpiece make me think it was made up later out of parts.

I imagine the tassles on this necklace were from a watch chain ("Albert" style if a man's, "Albertina" if a woman's), with the two tassels on the sides added earlier than the one in the middle.

I adore the clasp! So beautiful! Can you show a picture of how it fastens? That would help me figure out whether it was originally part of a watch chain.

Victorians loved birds--different ones symbolized different things. I believe the birds on your beautiful necklace are doves, symbolizing peace, spirit, love.

Antique jewelry is worth more if it hasn't been altered, and yours seems to be made up of different parts. But I could be wrong--it could have been made that way originally, and if not, it was probably put together a long time ago, so that might not affect the value too much. It's wonderfully attractive, wearable, and in good shape. Victorian collectors will love the birds. Could be worth several hundred dollars if it's gold filled, more if it's solid gold.

It sure is lovely! I would wear it in a heartbeat. (I would probably remove the tarnished central tassle if it unhooks easily, just because the book-chain necklaces this seems to be imitating didn't have a central pendant.)

 

[jewelerman]

Date: 9/2/2008 10:39:07 PM
Author: glitterata
Oh, I love this!

Here''s my somewhat confident guess: It''s made up of elements of jewelery from the late 19th century (Victorian era). The central piece was originally a ''watch pin''--you would hook your watch to the hook on the back and pin it to your dress. The clasp on the back of the watch pin dates it to the 1890s-1900s, but the style looks a little older to me, perhaps the 1880s, so the clasp could perhaps have been updated later. (Or maybe not--would that have messed up the enamel in the front?)

The chains might originally have been part of a watch chain. It''s hard for me to tell the scale; if they''re thick and heavy they could have been from a man''s watch chain, if more delicate, a woman''s.

Or the chains could have been part of a popular form of necklace that consisted of a wide, usually flat chain called a ''book chain'' that would loop around the neck and attach in the front to a decorative clasp, which often had a cameo on it. The clasp would have two bits of additional chain hanging from it in the front. The idea was to look as though the clasp was a slide. This necklace imitates that look, but the round (rather than flat) chain and the watch-pin centerpiece make me think it was made up later out of parts.

I imagine the tassles on this necklace were from a watch chain (''Albert'' style if a man''s, ''Albertina'' if a woman''s), with the two tassels on the sides added earlier than the one in the middle.

I adore the clasp! So beautiful! Can you show a picture of how it fastens? That would help me figure out whether it was originally part of a watch chain.

Victorians loved birds--different ones symbolized different things. I believe the birds on your beautiful necklace are doves, symbolizing peace, spirit, love.

Antique jewelry is worth more if it hasn''t been altered, and yours seems to be made up of different parts. But I could be wrong--it could have been made that way originally, and if not, it was probably put together a long time ago, so that might not affect the value too much. It''s wonderfully attractive, wearable, and in good shape. Victorian collectors will love the birds. Could be worth several hundred dollars if it''s gold filled, more if it''s solid gold.

It sure is lovely! I would wear it in a heartbeat. (I would probably remove the tarnished central tassle if it unhooks easily, just because the book-chain necklaces this seems to be imitating didn''t have a central pendant.)

Glitter,
You missed your calling!Your hypothisis is expert and i can see why you are leaning the way you are....I see the necklace coming from elements that a jewelry company or catalog company made in mass and then put together in several differant designs and combinations...the center piece could have easlily been used as a watch pin and the chain and tassels would have easily been made into a watch fob,book chain necklace or other jewelry...i see this piece as being made this way intentially for sale as a necklace.The company most likely sold watch cases and movements to mix and match in different combinations...The reason I think this piece is not used originally as a watch pin and book chain fab is that there is no soulder showing that would ''marry'' the pieces together in a re-design...The center tassel would be added by the company to balance the center of the pendant because a watch case would not be worn that far up on the neck.I believe the piece could have been made in Newark New jersey or England.I am so impressed with your ability to problem solve for solutions in antique jewelry identification!

 

[glitterata]

Date: 9/2/2008 11:33:02 PM
Author: jewelerman

Date: 9/2/2008 10:39:07 PM

Glitter,

You missed your calling!Your hypothisis is expert and i can see why you are leaning the way you are....I see the necklace coming from elements that a jewelry company or catalog company made in mass and then put together in several differant designs and combinations...the center piece could have easlily been used as a watch pin and the chain and tassels would have easily been made into a watch fob,book chain necklace or other jewelry...i see this piece as being made this way intentially for sale as a necklace.The company most likely sold watch cases and movements to mix and match in different combinations...The reason I think this piece is not used originally as a watch pin and book chain fab is that there is no soulder showing that would 'marry' the pieces together in a re-design...The center tassel would be added by the company to balance the center of the pendant because a watch case would not be worn that far up on the neck.I believe the piece could have been made in Newark New jersey or England.I am so impressed with your ability to problem solve for solutions in antique jewelry identification!

Thank you, Jewelryman! Exchangeable parts makes a lot of sense. I'm just a self-taught amateur (if a passionate one), so I bow to your professional opinion. The only thing I might disagree about is whether the center tassle is original. I think it isn't, because Ellen says it's detachable, it doesn't match the other two, and bookchain necklaces--the look this seems to have been going for--don't have a center pendant.

Do you know when bookchain necklaces were most popular? I think of them as an 1870s-1880s thing. Were they popular later too?

Looking at the picture again, I see that I misinterpreted the clasp of the pin. I thought it was one of those early locking-style clasps from the first decade or so of the twentieth century, but now I see that it's a c clasp that's closed at one end--perhaps to keep the pin from poking into the lady's neck as she wore the necklace? But that doesn't make sense, because if they were going to customize the clasp for the sake of the necklace, why not just leave it off in the first place? Very intriguing...

What do you make of "Dec. 2"? Do you think it could be part of a patent date? They wouldn't bother to enamel a patent date, would they? And if it is, where's the year?

Ellen, thank you for showing this wonderful mystery. Do you have other threads full of fascinating treasures that I've missed?

 

[jewelerman]

GLITTER,
You are right about the center tassel...not a match...could be that its this way from the manufacture or a replacement...the fringe that is made of this link of woven chain and ended with a bead(so it would not frey)is very common...book chain jewelry was huge in the 1880s ...earlier in gold and with cameos and colored gems,later in sterling silver with matching hinged cuff bracelets.alot of the time in the east lake school of design with heavy hand engraving.I agree that the c clasp was earlier and cesigned so it protected skin and fabric from snagging on the sharp pin point.Im still unsure why the date is stamped on the clasp.Believe me...you are not in the Amateur catagory as far as im concerned ...you are a pro level in my opinion...most professionals i know dont have the passion or desire to study antique jewelry as you do...can i still be impressed?!I would love to hear Richard Shermans Opinion on the piece...Calling R.Sherman.....