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Inlaw troubles....

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Date: 3/24/2008 7:19:55 PM
Author: diamondfan
You are in a bad spot. My mother in law is also the same (as was father in law before he died). She is ultra sneaky and does it when she thinks no one else notices. Years ago I had two talks. One was to hubby saying you are a married man, and we come first, your wife and family. Second talk was to the mother, I basically laid it out that her tactics were noted and not appreciated and would not be tolerated. I nicely said, he lives with me, not you, and this is OUR home. You will not be welcome if you continue this. She knows I mean it. When she does come, I now ignore her. She blabs, I say Oh yes...and go on about my business. If she intrudes in an inappropriate way, I nail her. For instance, my oldest who is now 15 was given, by my mother, a very expensive guitar last June when he graduated 8th grade. My mother was in PA for the graduation, and my mother in law decided SHE had to come too. While here, the gift my mom purchased came up in a context, but price was never discussed. My mother in law was jealous and so she told my son, in front of my mother, ''Well, I am not the RICH grandmother from Beverly Hills. Sorry I can''t get you a gift like that.'' But she was NOT sorry and she was being a bitch. I told her, right there, ''That is totally offensive and inappropriate. Her gift to him is none of your business if you are going to act like that. You owe both of them an apology.'' She apologized, and kept her mouth zipped most of the rest of the time.


Bottom line, I stand up for me and my kids, and I have made it clear to hubby he must too. They are grown men, not children. Your word about their actions should be enough, whether or not he WANTS to believe it. Is he so convinced it is not possible? My hubby KNEW it was, and that I spoke the truth, and had to gradually realize he needed to step up to the plate. Bad behavior is bad no matter from whom it originates. No matter who is around when they say something nasty or mean, immediately call them on it, as you would a child who is misbehaving. What got to my hubby was when I told him what a bad example their behavior and his lack of support was setting for our kids.


I am not a confrontational person by nature but certain things have to be addressed. You know what? Too bad if hubby gets upset. He was bullied by them and cannot see clearly about the situation. You need to protect your son. You husband, if you left when they came, might see that you mean business. I would not stay in my home and feel that way.
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Nicely said DF - I ditto everything she said, and agree with aljdewey/Allison and neatfreak as well.

I honestly think that your DH needs to be forced to deal with this as an adult and as your husband and the father of your son. Otherwise it will never change and it will hurt your son, if not now, then over time as they continue to be offensive and abusive, even if its only to you - your son will see that and it will hurt him. Stop this now before that happens.
 
Caroline,

Your mother-in-law is unbelievable. I don''t know how you can stand having her in your house.

Linda
 
hubby wants to visit with them? then he should go to their house alone and do so.

if he insists on them visiting in your house, take your child and go on a vacation until they have left.

for your hubby: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553381407/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

for you: http://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Laws-Strategies-Protecting-Marriage/dp/B00008MNVF/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206413856&sr=1-5

our household has a copy of each.......

movie zombie
 
I will say that Nate felt the same way about my dad. My dad couldn''t stand Nate in the beginning and Nate finally told him that he should get used to seeing him because he wasn''t going anywhere. Now, they''re like best friends. Nate just had to put him in his place.
 
LC~ sounds miserable and I''m sorry you have to deal with this.

My sis''s in-laws are the EXACT same way! (are you sure you guys aren''t sisters-in-law??) They criticize her and their 13 month old (taking his thumb out of his mouth and hiding his blankie and criticizing his hair, clothes, etc.) Her MIL actually had her husband file a police report on her with false claims of spousal abuse! Her husband kept saying that my sis just misunderstood the situation or the comment and nothing bad could ever be meant. Finally, my sis had enough and told the whole family that it was to stop immediately. They were in her home and started mouthing off and she just said something along the lines of--You will not speak to me this way, in my home, or in front of my child. And, she ushered them out the door. She and her husband did have a blow out that night. But, finally he realized that if it hurt her (my sis) that much, obviously there was a problem. Since then, my BIL has addressed his family about the situation.

I hope you''re able to remedy the relationship. But, in the meantime, to remedy the situation, I say ship them to a lovely B&B and explain that the little guy is on a schedule and in order for him to have fun with them, he really needs to maintain that schedule (which would be easier if they weren''t there).
 
I have nothing to add, only to big ditto NF, Alj and DF. I really hope you can resolve this.
 
The description of FIL as a bully could not be more accurate. He is a retired high school teacher, and I know several of his prior students, and they tell stories that are ridiculous. In particular, he seemed to always have a problem with the female students - one mother of a bright female student got onto the school board so she could deal with him.

DH''s parents have no friends - they have abused everyone in their home town. They only socialize with relatives.

I have had the conversation with FIL after he "mistakenly" got my son''s last name (which is hyphenated) wrong for the 3rd time, after being politely reminded by me and DH each prior time of the so called mistake. When he said it was a mistake, I told him that I was not an idiot, that I saw through these "mistakes" and ignorance that they always claimed after being called on an insult. He then started into the "respect" think, and I retorted with the "respect is earned" mantra, and advised him that this was enough. But FIL will never back down. He is the ultimate bully, and he could not ever accept being put in his place by a woman.

And then DH. His issues with his parents are deep and serious. I believe he needs some professional help to work this out, because he simply does not see what is completely obvious to everyone else around us. But he cannot see an issue, and thinks I am the problem.

Luckily, they live 10 hours away, and we see them once or twice a year. Previously, I could put up with the abuse a few days each year, but it has really got out of hand, and I don''t want my son exposed to this behaviour.

At the end of the day, I just want everyone to get along - I want them to quit abusing me and my son, so I can get through the time I have to spend with them. But that is not going to happen, and now I have to cope somehow.

I am worried that with this type of super aggressive bully, confronting him will be simply giving him what he wants - confrontation. Maybe it is just best to get out of the picture as much as possible?
 
Date: 3/24/2008 10:58:34 PM
Author: movie zombie
hubby wants to visit with them? then he should go to their house alone and do so.

if he insists on them visiting in your house, take your child and go on a vacation until they have left.

for your hubby: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553381407/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

for you: http://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Laws-Strategies-Protecting-Marriage/dp/B00008MNVF/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206413856&sr=1-5

our household has a copy of each.......

movie zombie
Click to expand...
I am ordering the book for me. DH would be livid if I ordered the other book for him - his parents are perfect, right?
 
LC

I''m sorry things are so rough right now.
I can understand why you are hesistant about confronting your FIL given how aggressive he can be. Have you thought about maybe using another tact such as agreement? I know it sounds odd but what bullies want is to see they have gotten to somebody or got a rise out of them (believe me I know!)

Other than standing up to them, if you simply agree with every statement they are making, they have no where to go.

E.g Making some rude comment about your parents being farmers (or something to that effect) - just agree with them - What else can they possibly say on that subject? Nothing - you have taken that control away from them. Sorry thats a really rubbish example but do you kinda see where I''m going?

I was horrendously bullied at school they would comment on EVERYTHING - one day the girl leaned round to see what I had got in a test and snarked that is was a rubbish mark - I agreed with her and she soon shut up - what else could she say!

Sorry of this post is a bit waffely

Take care

Lizzie
 
I hear what you are saying and I have actually tried that as well - he just keeps going and going. And it does not work when he insults my son and pulls his thumb out of his mouth!!!
 
I am just curious, do you have other family who know what is happening here, if so, could you and your son go to stay with them while the inlaws visit? I hope you can find a way to get your Husband out of what sounds to me like denial.
 
Linda, not to jack here but it does apply.

I have become the master at ignoring but I also have NO trouble telling her off. I do not allow her to stir the soup. I think when I finally decided it was over with, things got a bit better. I tolerated things from his family when we did not have kids, as an adult I could process things. Once I had kids and she started in with her crap, that was the end. And hubby was so used to his family that I also had to educate him as to what was okay and what was not. Now, she is never going to change, she is awful, but I stopped trying to be nice and suck it up. If she is rude in a restaurant to the server, I tell her, You are being rude. I have no problem calling her on the carpet. I tell her that my children do not need to be exposed to an adult who behaves that way, and if she wants to come visit she had better abide by my rules. The thing is she is a huge hypocrite because she will come in my house and do things and you could never do them in hers. She is nosy, ignorant, ill mannered, obnoxious...but I finally stopped sitting idly by each time it happened.
 
LC, perhaps you could order the one for him and have it just in case? once you read her book and start implementing some of her suggestions, he may find himself more open to reading it. this type of situation can eventually tear a marriage apart and i hope at some point he realizes that. i wish you a lot of luck as it is definitely hard work, especially with a hubby who thinks his parents are perfect. we got lucky: my husband''s step-sister suggested the books after an incident with his family.......

movie zombie
 
LC, you''re an attorney, right? I''m perplexed at why an attorney (people for whom arguing a point is a passion and their career) isn''t standing up to these bullies? I think you too, might want to get some counseling on how to stand up to them. After all the advice here, you mention in your last post that maybe leaving when they''re around is the best idea, yet, it''s running away from YOUR home. Why would you want to do that? I think you need to implement several actions simultaneously:

1. Give them the "house rules" BEFORE they get there, and put them in a hotel as well (and make sure they know WHY they''re staying in a hotel, dont just put them there without telling them why, otherwise it''s a lost lesson and you look like the bad guy). That way you can limit their time and throw them out (essentially punishing them) when they act disrespectful.

2. If they make out of line comments, call them on it immediately, and in front of whomever is there. And to that end, I''d install a Nanny Cam in some of your more frequented rooms so that you can capture their sneak attacks and show them to your husband. You could even show them back to the in laws after you and husband agree that this will stop.

3. Stick to your guns. Let them know if they act up, they will have to leave and will not be welcome in your home anymore. And stick to it. Dont give in. If your husband wants to go visit them, fine (though I wouldn''t be down with that because you know they''ll talk smack about you while he''s there).

What I hear is "bad parenting" but instead of kids, it''s in laws. You''ve got to stand up to them as soon as something happens and dont let it get to a point where you''re pulling your hair out. Put on your litigator hat and just pretend you''re in court arguing a case or trying to get a jury to see how wrong these people are...Remove yourself from it emotionally, hard as it is, and make it business like. Maybe that will help you cope more directly?
 
Surfgirl - if only I could slap an injunction on them!!! In the Courtroom, there is nothing but respect and tolerance. We argue our cases without personal attacks, and no good lawyer is a bully. If anyone gets out of line, the judge is certain to snap them to their senses. Behaviour like this does not happen in real life law, IMO.

The more I read these threads, DH is really the problem. Yes, FIL is a bully and an abuser, but DH will not deal with it. My DH would do crazy is I refused to let his parents stay at our house.

So if it was just a relationship between me and FIL, I could deal with it. But DH is involved, and I do want to maintain a relationship with him. See what I''m getting at here? I think this is why I am preferring the "run away" plan vs. the showdown.
 
LC, can you live the rest of your life feeling that he is not seeing your side or counting your views? Do you think, whether or not he does not see it because he is fearful of them or just does not wish to, that it is fair to subject you and your son to this, even if it is only a couple of times a year?

Maybe he has Stockholm syndrome and really cannot accept what you are saying. But to me, you are his wife. Why would you make this up? Would you not rather have a nice rapport and feel that they are nice and good grandparents to you son? What do you gain by telling him there are issues if there are not? I can see how and why he chooses not to face it, but he must separate from them and be unto you and your son.

If you tell him, Honey, I get that you do not see it. But if I do, if this is what I experience, and it is NOT my being too sensitive, how can you not support me?

I personally think telling you it is YOUR fault for being too touchy is passing the buck.
If he were single he could pretend they are peachy keen, but you and your son are in the mix and you count. Maybe someone else in the family who knows the real situation can talk to him.

Can you tell him tbat you simply cannot have them in your home, even for short visits, as it is terribly unpleasant and unhealthy for your son, but you understand they wish to visit so a compromise must be reached? A hotelstay for them, with limited time in your home, makes the most sense. And I would make sure they know why they are in the hotel. And I would NOT let them visit witbout you there, even if your nanny is pretty capable she is not likely to feel comfortable dealing with your in laws. Also, if when they are around they misbehave, you, in a non emotional way, tell them that their actions are not okay. And be prepared to take your son, and physically remove yourself from their presence, if things continue to escalate.

Put you and your son first here. If hubby needs help seeing it, maybe suggest a couple of counseling sessions so you can have someone neutral on your side. Just because he does not see it, it is not a given that you are too sensitive or that it is not real. He truly was bullied in the past and is having trouble sorting out the facts here. He can see them all he wants, but when it comes to your son and you, that is your perogative to not be around them.
 
I agree with DF, couples counseling, STAT!
 
Date: 3/25/2008 1:12:00 PM
Author: surfgirl
I agree with DF, couples counseling, STAT!
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Thritto! There is no easy way around this by the look of it, but the above would be a positive start!
 
Quaditto! You two need to see eye to eye on this. My hubby and I have been married for 13 years and together for 18. It is only in the last few years that we see the same things when it comes to the in-laws. I wish we would have gone to counseling or read the books MZ suggested sooner. There''s no point in being miserable or even merely unhappy. You just don''t have to if you take action and mold your situation into what you and your hubby would like it to be. There has to be a solution that makes you BOTH feel good.
 
Quintuple (is that a word)!!! I got DH to go to counselling about the inlaw issue several months back. He didn''t like the counsellor (he''s a quack, all touchy feely, this is stupid - translation: it wasn''t going his way and he was seeing things he didn''t want to). I have suggested another counsellor, and he flatly refuses.
 
Yes, Quintuple is a word...On PS. So is Quaditto!

What if he picks the counselor? If he won''t go for that, will he go for an audio book you could listen to together? At least it would be something...
 
I say let him choose. It is a win win, because he will feel control on some level. However, you still prevail because I cannot imagine a counselor who would not agree with him stepping up and defending you and your son.
 
Caroline,

Sounds like she is the twin to my MIL
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Linda
 
Linda, is she British? god, two of them would be too much. Funny thing is if they met, they would probably hate each other because people like that hate when other people are as obnoxious as they are. I would think they would recognize a kindred spirit and bond immediately but no...poor Linda, I feel for you if yours is at all like mine!
 
To Everyone, sorry to hijack this thread.

Diamondfan,

No she is not British, she is just a pain in the a#$, that is why we have no communication with her at all.

This is gross and I apologize for it, but it is funny. When she used to visit, she used to sit in MY leather chair and PASS GAS. The perfect insult.!!!! Of course, she would do this when DH wasn''t around, he would be in the backyard.

Linda
 
Date: 3/25/2008 1:25:14 PM
Author: LitigatorChick
Quintuple (is that a word)!!! I got DH to go to counselling about the inlaw issue several months back. He didn''t like the counsellor (he''s a quack, all touchy feely, this is stupid - translation: it wasn''t going his way and he was seeing things he didn''t want to). I have suggested another counsellor, and he flatly refuses.
Click to expand...

Well first of all, I''m sorry you''re dealing with horrible in-laws on your own. However, I think your husband refusing to deal with this issue is just unacceptable. I would have a MAJOR problem with my fiance not standing up for me, and even more importantly, my child. I just can''t even believe that an adult would treat a 21 month old like your in-laws do! That''s really just horrible. I don''t even like kids that much and I''m always nice to them!
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I don''t know how you''ve dealt with this with your husband before, but it doesn''t seem like he is getting it at all. Maybe you need to get louder/angrier/quieter/whatever? He just clearly doesn''t take this seriously and like everyone else has been saying, that is the real problem. His refusal to go to counseling with you is also very problematic, in my opinion.

I definitely would not allow them in my house with me and my son. I think you should definitely go stay at a hotel or with your parents/friends/sibling if your husband is really insistent that his parents stay with you. Maybe that will get the message through to him.

Best of luck in dealing with this, and I hope you can get through to your husband.
 
As a mother, you have an obligation to defend your son and protect him from bullies.

This means that you have an obligation to confront your husband on this issue as well. He invites bullies into your home to abuse your son and says you have the problem.

Where before it was OK to leave these issues alone, and to tolerate his parent's abuse once or twice a year, it is no longer, not with your husband blind to it and not backing you up. Since he would prefer to ignore it, you need to step up the pressure to force him to address the problem.

Start with: your home is your home. Your husband should not invite guests into it without your approval, even his parents. If he "insists", you should "insist" on seeing another counselor first. If he woln't go with you, you should probably go alone to discuss the next steps for dealing with him and any potential interactions with the in-laws.

While you could temporarily manage the issue by fleeing with your son at the first sign of trouble, that really is an imperfect solution. You need your husband on the same page, then you can work on techniques for dealing with the toxic people.
 
Hmmm, well I was reading O magazine on a plane today and there was a Dr. Phil advice column about a toxic parent. He said something along of the lines of . . . there is a price of admission that we all should charge for access to our lives, and if that isn''t met, then we have a right to turn down that customer, so to speak.

The tough thing is that your husband has been affected and molded by their abuse and his desire for their approval whether he sees it or not. So the question is how much does he see it? Does he want/need therapy?

My approach is to realize that as bad as my annoyance is, DH''s pain and scarring from anything of that sort is so much deeper and more real than mine. I can stop caring or hoping for a magically restored relationship much more easily than he can, so I would go ahead and do that. You know that his parents will never appreciate you for who you are or treat you the way you deserve. OK. You are a big girl and you can handle it.

The biggest concern is your son. He doesn''t deserve to be mistreated, so I would consider carefully before ever leaving him alone with them. It''s perfectly acceptable to lay down ground rules regarding your son (it''s harder for yourself . . . what will you say, "Please stop childishly mistreating me whenever DH isn''t looking. And please stop insulting my parents in a roundabout way."???) and to say that they cannot pull his hand from his mouth or speak critically of him or you in his presence. And if they disregard, just say, "Excuse me," scoop up your son, and leave.

This is not a perfect solution, but the other choices are 1) DH decides to cut off ties with them. This might lead to guilt and questioning on both of your parts, and would probably require a lot of healing and exploring on his part before reaching this place. 2) You hope that DH will lay down the rules and keep them in check (again, requiring a lot of therapy/healing on his part and expecting him to be past whatever needing to please issues he developed when his parents did not treat him well). So 2 will probably lead to conflict between you and DH as he feels caught between his parents and his wife and child.

I have found the most successful course of action to be nonengagement with people like this. My level of engagement is roughly equivalent to what I would give somebody I had just met at a cocktail party. I will answer politely, smile (maybe), and nod. I will not answer personal questions. I will not expect genuine caring or understanding. And I will not stick around if the conversation goes sour. Every time there is an attempt at engagement at a manipulative, critical, or caustic level, I do not respond at all. Even saying, "I will not respond to such treatment," would be a win for the toxic person hoping to engage on that level. And believe me, I regularly receive exploratory communications trying to guilt/shame/criticize/plead/cry me back into engagement. But I don''t care how the person is related to me or DH; I''m not going to have a real relationship with somebody who treats me that way.
 
Girl, I feel for you. You and your hubby are at a stalemate, and until you get on the same page, its not going to be pretty. Yes, counseling is probably a good idea. Its your hubby''s job to keep his parents on a chain, and he is turning a blind eye to their horrible behavior. I was married once before, and I can HONESTLY say, the horrid treatment from my former MIL and the LACK of intervention from my former husband was the 2nd leading cause of our divorce. The first was his cheating, so you see what a huge deal her behavior was. She pulled the same crap of making sure noone else was around when she acted like an ass, and it was intolerable. We never had children, so I cannot imagine what level this escalates to when your children are insulted. Just the insults hurled at me were enough to make me go crazy. I think therapy, books, interventions, whatever you have to do, do it. Put some ultimatums into play. If your dh won''t stand up for you, then I would insist the "outlaws" stay in a hotel. And if he pitches a fit, pack your son up and leave, and return home when the outlaws have left. You gotta be true to yourself and your son. You are in my prayers, cause I realize what a difficult situation you are in. It''s really a no-win for anyone.
 
Your DH was abused by them, so part of me is wondering why he allows this to continue with YOU and his SON. Seriously, it makes no sense. Perhaps he has forgiven them, but subjecting you guys to this and not standing up to them just boggles my mind. You sound like a strong person. I'd put my foot down with your DH and lay down the ground rules. First and foremost, the In laws need to stay at a hotel. Anything else would be a deal breaker for me. Life is too short, you should be treated well, your son should be treated with love and affection. Not judgement. They break those rules....?? Not a happy ending.

How long will you put up with this??
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