Increase in unexplained infertility

[Lanie]

Nakedfinger--I thought the same thing too bc I had so many friends with problems that were on bc previously. I asked both my obgyn and RE about it, and they said the same thing that Laila said...no statistical evidence. So my own gathering of info from my friends was anecdotal. But I didn''t go to an ivy league school so maybe that''s a factor.

My weird cycles were due to PCOS. I was so glad to get the diagnosis. Some PCOS sufferers don''t ever get pregnant, same as many other women out there with textbook bloodwork, organs, health, etc. It''s really sad and I''m glad it''s becoming less taboo. Shows like Bill and Giuliana rock! She''s going through fertility treatments and goes into great detail (emotional and physical) about them. I still think TLC would have ratings through the roof if they added an infertility show to their lineup. Ok I''m rambling.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

For those who are collecting data for their own studies

I don''t have PCOS, and only took the pill for 3 months (to deal with a random fluke of uncontrollable uterine bleeding that the Dr said had no impact on my fertility). The pills did not react well with my body and I had to stop b/c I developed warning signs for the precurser to deep vein thrombosis.

We''ve been TTC since October 2009 (though several months our timing was off so I think in reality it''s only been like 4 cycles).

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

I pulled this from an Australian Government Department of Health website...

Young People and STIs
Are STI rates rising?
The short answer is yes! There were around 70,000 reported cases of STIs (sexually transmissible
infections) in Australia in 2008 – 13% more than in 2007, and it’s young people who are most at risk. Three quarters of known cases occur among people aged between 15 and 29 years.

Top of page

Which STIs are more common?
Chlamydia rates have quadrupled in the last decade, mainly among young people. Eight out of ten diagnosed cases are in people aged between 15 and 29 years. Because the infection usually doesn’t cause symptoms and many people remain untested, numbers may be even higher.

Research shows more than ten per cent of the population carries the virus responsible for genital herpes. In 2008 alone, more than one in ten Australians diagnosed with a reportable STI had gonorrhoea.

In recent years the number of HIV infections in Australia has been on the rise, with an increase in new cases being transmitted through heterosexual sex.

Top of page

Why are young people especially at risk?
Anyone who has unprotected sex risks getting an infection. Young people are usually less experienced in or confident about sexual relationships and sometimes unknowingly put themselves at risk. The reasons for this might be:

Low awareness about the dangers of STIs. Many young people just don’t know how common STIs are or that they can easily happen to ‘people like them’. Many wrongly believe that they can tell if someone has one. Not true! How someone looks, their sexual orientation or their cultural background isn’t enough to make the call.

Changing partners more frequently. It’s common for young people to experiment before entering a long-term relationship. This means young people are more likely to come into contact with someone who has an STI.

Not knowing ‘safe sex’ is about more than avoiding pregnancy. Sex without a condom increases the risk of getting an STI or passing it onto someone else. Some people may intend to use them but not have any in the heat of the moment – studies show that almost half of young people don’t always carry condoms. Many others find it difficult to ask partners to use them, either through embarrassment or because they don’t know how to handle the more common excuses. There are lots of excuses but none are as important as the reasons to use condoms.

Not getting regular check-ups for possible infections as they don’t feel personally at risk of having an STI. Although many of these infections don’t show any obvious signs, they can have a serious health impact if left untreated. Infrequent testing means that many young people don’t even know that they are spreading these infections further.

Top of page

As i said in my previous post, I don''t know what the situation is like in the US, this is just Australia.

 

[Laila619]

Hawaiian, thanks for sharing your story. I'm sorry that happened to you.

I don't think anyone is denying that STDs can cause infertility though. What BlackJade failed to understand is that this topic is about unexplained infertility. Those of us who've had it have already done all the tests and ultrasounds and there has been NO cause found. It's naive and simplistic to explain it away to age or STDs. That's why unexplained is called unexplained. BJ seems to think that we don't know about age and STDs being causes of other types of infertility, which I'm sure most women do.

 

[Lanie]

Well said Laila.

And Hawaiian -- sorry to hear your story as well. But don''t automatically assume you have to go the IVF route because one doctor told you and because you are older. If you want to have a child, I''d see another doctor...it''s been awhile, and maybe they''ll have more optimistic news for you. Maybe not, but it''s worth a shot.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Date: 5/4/2010 8:50:04 AM
Author: Laila619
Hawaiian, thanks for sharing your story. I'm sorry that happened to you.

I don't think anyone is denying that STDs can cause infertility though. What BlackJade failed to understand is that this topic is about unexplained infertility. Those of us who've had it have already done all the tests and ultrasounds and there has been NO cause found. It's naive and simplistic to explain it away to age or STDs. That's why unexplained is called unexplained. BJ seems to think that we don't know about age and STDs being causes of other types of infertility, which I'm sure most women do.

Thanks Laila and Lanie.

Laila, i understand that this thread is about unexplained fertility. I just wanted to share my story to make sure that the fact behind blackjades post (sti's do cause infertility) wasn't lost from the way she delivered her message. It is a very real fact for me, and as you said most women do know this, and i just wanted to make sure that everyone knows the reality.

 

[Laila619]

Date: 5/4/2010 9:47:19 AM
Author: hawaiianorangetree

Date: 5/4/2010 8:50:04 AM
Author: Laila619
Hawaiian, thanks for sharing your story. I'm sorry that happened to you.

I don't think anyone is denying that STDs can cause infertility though. What BlackJade failed to understand is that this topic is about unexplained infertility. Those of us who've had it have already done all the tests and ultrasounds and there has been NO cause found. It's naive and simplistic to explain it away to age or STDs. That's why unexplained is called unexplained. BJ seems to think that we don't know about age and STDs being causes of other types of infertility, which I'm sure most women do.

Thanks Laila and Lanie.

Laila, i understand that this thread is about unexplained fertility. I just wanted to share my story to make sure that the fact behind blackjades post (sti's do cause infertility) wasn't lost from the way she delivered her message. It is a very real fact for me, and as you said most women do know this, and i just wanted to make sure that everyone knows the reality.

I totally understand whe're you're coming from, HOT. Thank you for being brave enough to share. As Lanie says, you might not even need IVF! Wishing you luck when you TTC. What a wonderful blessing and a joy it must be to have your little one!!

 

[FrekeChild]

Yes, the fact is that some STD/STIs can cause infertility. That single truth was not the point of BJ''s post however. She appears to be looking down on us from her moral high ground and generalizing that because people sleep around when they are young, there will be increased infertility. I don''t think anyone here is denying that STDs can cause infertility. I think some women who have problems getting pregnant wish there was an answer for them that was so simple. I also think that most women here know that waiting until after 40 (as BJ said in her first post) to try conceiving is not a wise idea, what with increased risks for mother and child in high risk pregnancies. I believe that it is the following statement that has riled up so many:

2) Exponential rise in STDs (due to people having many more sexual partners than they used to, and often not knowing them very well). A lot of the times, women especially don''t even know that they have an STD, and these affect your fertility.

and then:

n short, infertility is rising not among everybody but among the educated who delay childbearing while establishing stressful careers and in the meantime, have sex with several people before their marriage.

Talk about gross generalizations. Especially that line about having multiple sex partners and often not knowing them well (implications of the ol'' "one night stand" there). As you found out HOT its not about how well (or long, as BJ implies) you might know a person.

Yes STDs can cause infertility. Thats not unexplained. There is a cause there. And the other two points that BJ brought up are common sense (late maternal age and stress). Any doctor worth their salt is going to tell you that as soon as you talk with them.

 

[geckodani]

Date: 5/4/2010 12:03:07 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Yes, the fact is that some STD/STIs can cause infertility. That single truth was not the point of BJ''s post however. She appears to be looking down on us from her moral high ground and generalizing that because people sleep around when they are young, there will be increased infertility. I don''t think anyone here is denying that STDs can cause infertility. I think some women who have problems getting pregnant wish there was an answer for them that was so simple. I also think that most women here know that waiting until after 40 (as BJ said in her first post) to try conceiving is not a wise idea, what with increased risks for mother and child in high risk pregnancies. I believe that it is the following statement that has riled up so many:

2) Exponential rise in STDs (due to people having many more sexual partners than they used to, and often not knowing them very well). A lot of the times, women especially don''t even know that they have an STD, and these affect your fertility.

and then:

n short, infertility is rising not among everybody but among the educated who delay childbearing while establishing stressful careers and in the meantime, have sex with several people before their marriage.

Talk about gross generalizations. Especially that line about having multiple sex partners and often not knowing them well (implications of the ol'' ''one night stand'' there). As you found out HOT its not about how well (or long, as BJ implies) you might know a person.

Yes STDs can cause infertility. Thats not unexplained. There is a cause there. And the other two points that BJ brought up are common sense (late maternal age and stress). Any doctor worth their salt is going to tell you that as soon as you talk with them.

Freke, excellent post, as always.


Black Jade, you were not just trying to share information. Were that the case, you would simply have said that fertility issues can arise when people wait too long to conceive, or have contracted an STD.

Date: 5/3/2010 7:33:40 AM
Author: Black Jade

In short, infertility is rising not among everybody but among the educated who delay childbearing while establishing stressful careers and in the meantime, have sex with several people before their marriage. This is of course almost everybody in Europe and Japan and though not everybody in the US would include most people posting on a board such as this.

What you did was make a morality judgement, lump a bunch of people into it you know nothing about, and then go so far as to direct it at the very people that you post amongst.

I fail to see how this was intended to be helpful.

 

[Haven]

I honestly fail to see how Black Jade's post was insulting. It looks to me like she's pointing out current lifestyle trends.
Aren't many women postponing marriage and children until later in life because they are focusing on careers instead? I know I did.
Aren't many women having sex before marriage? I know I did.

I don't see how statements that accurately describe the way many (not all) women currently choose to live their lives are inflammatory, judgmental, condescending, or anything other than a simple statement.

I'm not writing this to cause controversy, I'm writing because I don't understand the very strong response to her post, and I would like to.

I don't know if this is true, but if I had to guess I would say that BJ has written things that other posters found offensive in the past, and that is informing their reading of this current post. Is that what is going on?

ETA:
My heart goes out to everyone who is suffering from unexplained infertility. My best friend is going through that right now at age 29, and it is heartbreaking.

 

[geckodani]

Date: 5/4/2010 12:30:00 PM
Author: Haven

I don''t know if this is true, but if I had to guess I would say that BJ has written things that other posters found offensive in the past, and that is informing their reading of this current post. Is that what is going on?

ETA:
My heart goes out to everyone who is suffering from unexplained infertility. My best friend is going through that right now at age 29, and it is heartbreaking.

Not in my case. The phrasing was poorly done I think, and may also have struck a nerve with those of us that have fertility problems that do not have STDs, didn''t sleep around, and are under 30.

 

[janinegirly]

Date: 5/4/2010 12:30:00 PM
Author: Haven
I honestly fail to see how Black Jade's post was insulting. It looks to me like she's pointing out current lifestyle trends.

Aren't many women postponing marriage and children until later in life because they are focusing on careers instead? I know I did.

Aren't many women having sex before marriage? I know I did.

I don't see how statements that accurately describe the way many women currently choose to live their lives is inflammatory, judgmental, condescending, or anything other than a simple statement.

I'm not writing this to cause controversy, I'm writing because I don't understand.

I don't know if this is true, but if I had to guess I would say that BJ has written things that other posters found offensive in the past, and that is informing their reading of this current post. Is that what is going on?

ETA:
My heart goes out to everyone who is suffering from unexplained infertility. My best friend is going through that right now at age 29, and it is heartbreaking.

I'm guessing it's because it seemed to be linking "delaying" marriage/children as a cause of infertility. And also promisciuty. Basically the lifestyle choices of most modern women (not to be promiscuious, but dating around could by labled that by certain people). So of course people will feel this is quite judgmental not to mention there is no proven direct link.

Personally did not offend me since I know it's just not accurate. Unexplained infertility is unexplained. Insinuating that those who expereince it are somehow at fault for it (ie due to their "lifestyle" choices) is inaccurate in most cases and also quite cruel.

Just my interpretation since you asked..not trying to get involved!

 

[Laila619]

Date: 5/4/2010 12:33:24 PM
Author: geckodani

Date: 5/4/2010 12:30:00 PM
Author: Haven

I don't know if this is true, but if I had to guess I would say that BJ has written things that other posters found offensive in the past, and that is informing their reading of this current post. Is that what is going on?

ETA:
My heart goes out to everyone who is suffering from unexplained infertility. My best friend is going through that right now at age 29, and it is heartbreaking.

Not in my case. The phrasing was poorly done I think, and may also have struck a nerve with those of us that have fertility problems that do not have STDs, didn't sleep around, and are under 30.

Yep.

Also, it felt kind of like we were being lectured, as though we're uneducated and clueless.

 

[Haven]

Date: 5/4/2010 12:33:24 PM
Author: geckodani

Date: 5/4/2010 12:30:00 PM
Author: Haven
I don''t know if this is true, but if I had to guess I would say that BJ has written things that other posters found offensive in the past, and that is informing their reading of this current post. Is that what is going on?
ETA:
My heart goes out to everyone who is suffering from unexplained infertility. My best friend is going through that right now at age 29, and it is heartbreaking.

Not in my case. The phrasing was poorly done I think, and may also have struck a nerve with those of us that have fertility problems that do not have STDs, didn''t sleep around, and are under 30.

I can definitely see how comments in this thread could touch a nerve with *anyone* who has unexplained infertility at any age, and especially under 30. It''s just that so many people responded emotionally to Black Jade''s post, and I didn''t, so I''d honestly like to understand.

I do have to say though, that objectively, I don''t see anything offensive in Black Jade''s post. I thought for a minute that this was a situation similar to that with Beau13, who apparently rubbed some people the wrong way at some point, and then could NEVER post anything without being jumped on, regardless of what she really said.

That doesn''t seem to be the case here, though.

I didn''t see that Black Jade made a judgmental comment on people who had sex before marriage, so I assume that I missed that based on your "sleep around" comment. While I don''t see anything judgmental in saying "have sex with several people before marriage" I do see judgment in the term "sleep around" so if she used those words later on, I understand how people could have responded negatively to that.

Regardless, the heartbreak that accompanies unexplained infertility might understandably make anyone extremely sensitive. I do wish strength and dust and good vibes for any of my fellow PSers who *are* going through that.

 

[princesss]

Haven, I''ll say that the part of BlackJade''s post that I felt was most offensive was this:

"In short, infertility is rising not among everybody but among the educated who delay childbearing while establishing stressful careers and in the meantime, have sex with several people before their marriage. This is of course almost everybody in Europe and Japan and though not everybody in the US would include most people posting on a board such as this."

It was posted after 3 reasons why infertility rates are rising (stress, sleeping with multiple people you don''t know well, and delaying starting a family). It seemed to be waggling a finger at posters in a sensitive position and saying "You did this to yourself," when, in fact, it seems she misunderstood the point of the post in the first place. The subject of this thread is not "Unexplained increase in infertility" (as she posted "It''s not unexplained why infertility rates are rising, there are many factors..."), it is "Increase in unexplained infertility" (i.e. infertility that cannot be explained away by looking at the factors she mentioned, or any other reasons). This thread is about otherwise healthy couples that have been tested for any number of issues, have been told they shouldn''t have problems, but do. To tell those people, that have been working with their doctors to help conceive a child they desperately want, that they are to blame for their inability to conceive borders on cruel to me.

So, though I haven''t said so previously, that is why I personally found her post offensive.

 

[geckodani]

Date: 5/4/2010 12:42:53 PM
Author: Haven

I can definitely see how comments in this thread could touch a nerve with *anyone* who has unexplained infertility at any age, and especially under 30. It's just that so many people responded emotionally to Black Jade's post, and I didn't, so I'd honestly like to understand.

I do have to say though, that objectively, I don't see anything offensive in Black Jade's post. I thought for a minute that this was a situation similar to that with Beau13, who apparently rubbed some people the wrong way at some point, and then could NEVER post anything without being jumped on, regardless of what she really said.

That doesn't seem to be the case here, though.

I didn't see that Black Jade made a judgmental comment on people who had sex before marriage, so I assume that I missed that based on your 'sleep around' comment. While I don't see anything judgmental in saying 'have sex with several people before marriage' I do see judgment in the term 'sleep around' so if she used those words later on, I understand how people could have responded negatively to that.

Regardless, the heartbreak that accompanies unexplained infertility might understandably make anyone extremely sensitive. I do wish strength and dust and good vibes for any of my fellow PSers who *are* going through that.

In my case, this was the phrase that rubbed me the wrong way,

"In short, infertility is rising not among everybody but among the educated who delay childbearing while establishing stressful careers and in the meantime, have sex with several people before their marriage. This is of course almost everybody in Europe and Japan and though not everybody in the US would include most people posting on a board such as this."

I just... meh. Judgemental, targetted, not helpful, IMO.

ETA: What princesss said. She said it better, LOL. I lack eloquence today.

 

[Haven]

Thank you for clarifying, ladies.

I also want to be clear: I think that everyone is entitled to feel *however* they feel in response to things, so I wasn''t questioning that. I really truly wanted to understand why so many responded in one way, and I just didn''t.

And now I do.

I think the difference is that I read that part of Black Jade''s post as a summary explanation of the points she outlined above, and not a judgment or lecture or anything like that.

And as I said in my response to geckodani--I didn''t read carefully enough to see that Black Jade called it "sleeping around" at some point, and I do find that phrase to be full of judgment, and can definitely understand how that would rub someone the wrong way.

ANYWAY--I hope that this unexplained infertility can be explained (or done away with!) for those of you who are suffering from it. I just had my yearly and asked my doctor if I was taking too much of a gamble by waiting another handful of years before trying. He said no, but threads like this do make me wonder if I''m going to regret putting it off until my early to mid thirties.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Date: 5/4/2010 12:50:27 PM
Author: geckodani

Date: 5/4/2010 12:42:53 PM

Author: Haven


I can definitely see how comments in this thread could touch a nerve with *anyone* who has unexplained infertility at any age, and especially under 30. It''s just that so many people responded emotionally to Black Jade''s post, and I didn''t, so I''d honestly like to understand.


I do have to say though, that objectively, I don''t see anything offensive in Black Jade''s post. I thought for a minute that this was a situation similar to that with Beau13, who apparently rubbed some people the wrong way at some point, and then could NEVER post anything without being jumped on, regardless of what she really said.


That doesn''t seem to be the case here, though.


I didn''t see that Black Jade made a judgmental comment on people who had sex before marriage, so I assume that I missed that based on your ''sleep around'' comment. While I don''t see anything judgmental in saying ''have sex with several people before marriage'' I do see judgment in the term ''sleep around'' so if she used those words later on, I understand how people could have responded negatively to that.


Regardless, the heartbreak that accompanies unexplained infertility might understandably make anyone extremely sensitive. I do wish strength and dust and good vibes for any of my fellow PSers who *are* going through that.

In my case, this was the phrase that rubbed me the wrong way,


''In short, infertility is rising not among everybody but among the educated who delay childbearing while establishing stressful careers and in the meantime, have sex with several people before their marriage. This is of course almost everybody in Europe and Japan and though not everybody in the US would include most people posting on a board such as this.''



I just... meh. Judgemental, targetted, not helpful, IMO.


ETA: What princesss said. She said it better, LOL. I lack eloquence today.

That is the same section that I found offensive.

 

[Laila619]

Date: 5/4/2010 12:50:24 PM
Author: princesss
Haven, I'll say that the part of BlackJade's post that I felt was most offensive was this:

'In short, infertility is rising not among everybody but among the educated who delay childbearing while establishing stressful careers and in the meantime, have sex with several people before their marriage. This is of course almost everybody in Europe and Japan and though not everybody in the US would include most people posting on a board such as this.'

It was posted after 3 reasons why infertility rates are rising (stress, sleeping with multiple people you don't know well, and delaying starting a family). It seemed to be waggling a finger at posters in a sensitive position and saying 'You did this to yourself,' when, in fact, it seems she misunderstood the point of the post in the first place. The subject of this thread is not 'Unexplained increase in infertility' (as she posted 'It's not unexplained why infertility rates are rising, there are many factors...'), it is 'Increase in unexplained infertility' (i.e. infertility that cannot be explained away by looking at the factors she mentioned, or any other reasons). This thread is about otherwise healthy couples that have been tested for any number of issues, have been told they shouldn't have problems, but do. To tell those people, that have been working with their doctors to help conceive a child they desperately want, that they are to blame for their inability to conceive borders on cruel to me.

So, though I haven't said so previously, that is why I personally found her post offensive.

Excellent post. Couldn't agree more.

Not to mention the 'this is almost everybody in Europe and Japan' part...huh?!

 

[TravelingGal]

My cousin, I just found out, tried two bouts of IVF. Both failed.

They've been trying for 3 years. Nothing is wrong with either of them. Eggs are fine, he's fine, all is fine. Unexplained.

Of course, they did start trying when she was 35. Both spent time trying to establish careers. Both had sex with multiple partners (although I'm not clear if that was one at a time, or if they were efficient and slept with them all at once.) One wanted to live in Europe, the other in Japan, and I'm sure they've also screwed some Japanese and European people in the past in their ho-ish lives. I also think they ate sushi on multiple occasions trying to conceive. My cousin may have had peek at Pricescope a time or two in her past too...I'm sure that's what did it.

 

[Black Jade]

Date: 5/4/2010 12:50:27 PM
Author: geckodani

Date: 5/4/2010 12:42:53 PM

Author: Haven


I can definitely see how comments in this thread could touch a nerve with *anyone* who has unexplained infertility at any age, and especially under 30. It''s just that so many people responded emotionally to Black Jade''s post, and I didn''t, so I''d honestly like to understand.


I do have to say though, that objectively, I don''t see anything offensive in Black Jade''s post. I thought for a minute that this was a situation similar to that with Beau13, who apparently rubbed some people the wrong way at some point, and then could NEVER post anything without being jumped on, regardless of what she really said.


That doesn''t seem to be the case here, though.


I didn''t see that Black Jade made a judgmental comment on people who had sex before marriage, so I assume that I missed that based on your ''sleep around'' comment. While I don''t see anything judgmental in saying ''have sex with several people before marriage'' I do see judgment in the term ''sleep around'' so if she used those words later on, I understand how people could have responded negatively to that.


Regardless, the heartbreak that accompanies unexplained infertility might understandably make anyone extremely sensitive. I do wish strength and dust and good vibes for any of my fellow PSers who *are* going through that.

In my case, this was the phrase that rubbed me the wrong way,


''In short, infertility is rising not among everybody but among the educated who delay childbearing while establishing stressful careers and in the meantime, have sex with several people before their marriage. This is of course almost everybody in Europe and Japan and though not everybody in the US would include most people posting on a board such as this.''



I just... meh. Judgemental, targetted, not helpful, IMO.


ETA: What princesss said. She said it better, LOL. I lack eloquence today.

This is an honest apology to those who are offended, especially those who are offended who are suffering from infertility and so already feeling bad. I did not intend to make you feel worse and I''m truly sorry.
My intention really was to be informative, sorry that it came across to those who knew these facts already as ''lecturing''.
The phrase that clearly offended the most people was not meant to be judgmental. I can be judgmental, but when I am, I don''t skip around and hint at things, I say what I mean out directly (as I have in the past to several I see posting here, don''t know if that has anything to do with their current annoyance or not). What I meant about ''most on this board'' is that I think that most, if not all of the women posting on P''scope are educated, in fact highly educated, a large percentage seem to have careers currently (though not all) and that WE as a group (not every single person on here) tend to delay marriage and childbearing--there are a lot of social pressures to do this among the educated. We are often not informed that there can be a price to pay for having done this. I know that I wasn''t so informed. By sheer good luck, I had my children earlier and did not have issues, but (I know I said this before) most of my friends did not and many (not all) of them have suffered for it. Far from feeling superior or in a position to be moralistic because of this, I feel that I escaped by the skin of my teeth, feel very angry about the situations of many friends and sad for them, and was simply trying to say in my post what I wish had been said to me (and friends). I wish we had had all been warned--I don''t know if we would have done things differently if we had been warned, but I do think it''s nicer not to make your choices blind. In other words, not to decide that you wnat a family and only THEN find out that you could have, if you had done started ten years before, but no one had told you.
Maybe people ARE way better informed about this than we used to be, and thus my post was offensive as telling people something they already know. but in my daily life (I teach young women), I find that a lot of them in fact have no clue about these issues, right now, in 2010.
I did not, and would not accuse anyone of ''sleeping around''. I was just saying that when someone marries at age 35 they are more likely to have had relationships that someone who married at 19. I am NOT promoting 19 year old marriages--I am jsut saying that that is the case. It really is a fact that women who live in countries where they get married at 16 or 18 and have never been in a position to have other relationships do not have fertility problems like we currently do in the West. However, no one sane is proposing that we do the same. I certainly am not.
Lastly and most importantly, I certainly do not feel that I am better than other people because I am lucky enough to be a mother and far from blaming anyone for being in the tragedy of having fertility problems, I feel really bad for those who do and hope it works out the way they want. I have cried with enough friends who have had this issue and do not wish it on anyone. And I do not think that I am better than anyone else--I am SO SORRY if I can across like that. I have made plenty of mistakes and have plenty of choices I regret in my life (and had some pretty interesting consequences for some of them, though some others I have gotten away with). But what I personally resent the most in life is people who have experiences that don''t work and then don''t bother to warn other people. It seems like, having barely gotten out of a river that is full of alligators to the other side and then standing there with a big sign up that says "Perfectly safe to swim here" and just watching other people jump in without saying anything, if you know what I mean. That''s where I ''m coming from.

 

[Porridge]

Date: 5/3/2010 7:33:40 AM
Author: Black Jade
This is of course almost everybody in Europe and Japan

What the...what?!? Seriously?!?

ETA aaah, I get it now. Well written, Black Jade. I agree, I definitely feel pressure to succeed career wise and that will certainly delay my having children until my very late 20's/early 30's (assuming I meet the right man by then!). Hopefully I won't have problems, but ya know what, I might, as may most of my friends.

If only I was French

their maternity leave is great!!

On another note...I haven't actually read any conclusive research that says infertility is, in fact, on the rise. I've only heard anecdotal evidence. Is the research out there?

 

[Circe]

To stick to the original topic ... I honestly think we just talk about it more, and that it's becoming a less taboo subject. I also think it's a perception issue, as a few posters have suggested: if you're of the right age in our open, information-sharing society, you'll hear a lot about it. And, if you suffer from infertility or a loss, it's astonishing how many people will express not just sympathy, but also solidarity/empathy: after my miscarriage, almost everyone in my life stepped forth to offer an example alongside of their condolences. While some of the cases were at one remove (and therefore probably statistically, if definitely not emotionally, irrelevant), it did make it feel like I was very far from being alone ... like this was something everyone understood.

I know we'd all love to find a reason for it, from hormones to chemicals to plastics, but so far, I haven't seen a shred of reputable research pointing to a common factor beyond the ones we've discussed (which fall into the "explained infertility" camp), and, frankly, a lot of the stuff that I've seen bouncing around out there - it's the coffee! the tofu! the chemicals! - rubs me the wrong way. It almost reads as a way to place the blame/point the finger (as is so frequent in our society when it comes to women), but it all falls apart when you look around and spot all the happy latte-drinkers in their 3rd trimesters taking a second helping of soy milk to stir with their plastic spoons.

Which brings me to Black Jade's post ... Black Jade, sometimes your posts are provocative, but they're almost inevitably centrally thought-provoking. It's great to talk about the choices we make, but this might not be the right context (more like the time to start a thread titled "Is society lying about having it all?"). One thing you really might want to keep in mind is that issues like this go way beyond hot-button and into agonizingly painful. Off-handedly dismissing the issue (and, I know, you took the time to write a long post on the issue - I mean in terms of tone) makes a lot of people reading feel blamed, like their unhappiness can all be traced back to that decision to experiment sexually in grad school, which, scientifically, no. Being put on the defensive about something like this? Not fun. At the end of the day, it's not a question of agenda: it's a question of sensitivity. Make sense?

ETA: We cross-posted! Thank you for explaining your position a little more ....

 

[geckodani]

Black Jade, thank you for the clarification and apology. The lack of tone in the written word often makes it hard to tell where people are coming from.

 

[TravelingGal]

Black Jade, I knew what you meant - I was just being cheeky and wanted to clarify.

My cousin is indeed all that you mentioned. I really do wonder what might be the issue. I wonder if it''s stress. Whatever the issue is, it is heartbreaking. She hasn''t even told me directly...she is very reserved and it was her husband who told mine. And his main thought was that they should have started earlier.

Whether we like it or not, age IS a factor when it comes to fertility. We just live in an era now where 35 simply doesn''t feel that old. Life has just gotten started!

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Black Jade - I want to thank you for your clarification and apology as well. I was offended when I replied to your post, but if you look at the first part, I do state that the reasons you stated are reasons for some people, just not for all, and couples trying for a baby are a very heterogenous group of people.

I think, at least in the medical community, women have realized they do not have all the time in the world. Many in the generation before me waited until they were done with residency to have kids. Many women my generation (if they are married) are having kids during residency even though they are working 80+ hours a week because they are well aware there are health risks to giving birth at an older age. My mother died of breast cancer at 56, delaying child birth past 30 is a risk factor for breast cancer. You know how nervous I am about the fact that I already have a huge risk factor for breast cancer (she got 2 separate cancers, so that is the same has having 2 first degree relatives with breast cancer in terms of risk), and I now have another one? But than again, what was I supposed to do?

BTW: For some of the above posts. I thought I would post the definition of infertility. If a couple has unprotected intercourse over a month (randomly, meaning not tracking ovulation), than there is a 15% chance they will be pregnant. If that couple continues to have intercourse over a year, than they have an 85% chance of becoming pregnant. Therefore the definition of infertility is inability to get pregnant over one year.

Some more stats

According to the National infertility association, 20% of cases are unexplained.

About 10% of females have fertility problems
30% of fertility problems are due to a problem with the male source

This was interesting, I was looking to see if the rate of infertility has gone up, and in the US, the opposite seems to be true. Now this does not break down the population (i.e. are less people having more children?), but I thought it was interesting. I could not find anything tracking the infertility rates over the years, but I am sure I could if I had a little more time.

Fertility rate at all time high

 

[geckodani]

Date: 5/4/2010 6:37:16 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker
Black Jade - I want to thank you for your clarification and apology as well. I was offended when I replied to your post, but if you look at the first part, I do state that the reasons you stated are reasons for some people, just not for all, and couples trying for a baby are a very heterogenous group of people.

I think, at least in the medical community, women have realized they do not have all the time in the world. Many in the generation before me waited until they were done with residency to have kids. Many women my generation (if they are married) are having kids during residency even though they are working 80+ hours a week because they are well aware there are health risks to giving birth at an older age. My mother died of breast cancer at 56, delaying child birth past 30 is a risk factor for breast cancer. You know how nervous I am about the fact that I already have a huge risk factor for breast cancer (she got 2 separate cancers, so that is the same has having 2 first degree relatives with breast cancer in terms of risk), and I now have another one? But than again, what was I supposed to do?

BTW: For some of the above posts. I thought I would post the definition of infertility. If a couple has unprotected intercourse over a month (randomly, meaning not tracking ovulation), than there is a 15% chance they will be pregnant. If that couple continues to have intercourse over a year, than they have an 85% chance of becoming pregnant. Therefore the definition of infertility is inability to get pregnant over one year.

Some more stats

According to the National infertility association, 20% of cases are unexplained.

About 10% of females have fertility problems
30% of fertility problems are due to a problem with the male source

This was interesting, I was looking to see if the rate of infertility has gone up, and in the US, the opposite seems to be true. Now this does not break down the population (i.e. are less people having more children?), but I thought it was interesting. I could not find anything tracking the infertility rates over the years, but I am sure I could if I had a little more time.

Fertility rate at all time high

Thank you for that information!