Importance of HCA score (1.0 vs 5.5)?

[curious_tim]

Hello everyone,

I am new to the forum and have only commenced my research on diamond e-rings over the last few weeks. I know my gf is keen on the Cartier (Solitaire 1895, brilliant cut), but I believe her only requirement is for 1 carat- whilst she is not picky with the other criteria, I want to be able to get her the best possible ring that I can afford (and have saved up for)!

My budget is $25k, and have been shown the below 2 in the boutique:

HCA score 4.4
1.34ct, H, VVS1
3Ex on GIA for $23,500
62.3 Depth
58.0 Table
35.5 Crown Angle
15.0 Crown Height
41.2 Pavilion Angle
43.5 Pavilion Depth
Girdle: Medium, Faceted (3.5%)
Cutlet: None
Cut Grade: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Flourescence: None

HCA score 1.0
1.27ct, G, VVS2
3Ex on GIA for $25,000
61.2 Depth
56.0 Table
34.0 Crown Angle
15.0 Crown Height
40.8 Pavilion Angle
43.0 Pavilion Depth
Girdle: Medium, Faceted (3.5%)
Cutlet: None
Cut Grade: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Flourescence: None

 

[JulieN]

get the G.

 

[curious_tim]

My questions are:
1) Is the HCA an objective, reliable and definitive measure?
Based on the results above, is the second diamond definitely a better cut than the first one?
I was tempted to choose the 1st one over 2nd one before finding out the HCA score, because of the higher carat size and better clarity, I honestly cannot tell the difference when I compared the 2 side by side.

2) I found the below article whilst reading the older threads here, does this criteria apply to all brands and shapes of diamonds?
http://niceice.com/brian-gavin-select-vs-signature-diamonds/

quote from link above:
Total depth between 59 – 61.8% and maybe up to 62%
Table diameter between 53 – 58%
Crown angle between 34.0 – 35.0 degrees and I truly prefer 34.3 – 34.9 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.5 – 41.0 degrees and I truly prefer 40.6 – 40.9 degrees

3) Are there other factors/measures that I need to check? I saw that I can ask Cartier for a Sarin report that provides more cut proportions, but would this be required? Or would the basic measurements of depth, table, crown and pavilion angle be sufficient?

4) As a general rule of thumb- is color preferred over clarity or vice versa? I have read differing opinions on this, and whilst most prefer higher color grading, I have also read that higher clarity (eg VVS1) gives the diamond more light.

5) I have asked the Cartier SA to help me check if the other boutiques have any similar e-rings given the similar criteria and budget, but within the dimensions quoted above, or else they have a service called, 'Set for you' where they can find a loose diamond and help to set it on the platinum ring, has anyone used this service before? Do these diamonds also have a GIA and will it be enough to check the parameters to decide on the purchase?

Would greatly appreciate any opinion, suggestions or advice on this as I am still unsure on which to go with, and how important the HCA score/rating is.

Many thanks

 

[curious_tim]

get the G.

Thanks JulieN for the quick reply. I was thinking the same after finding out about the HCA score and reading some more here on the forum.

However, I did want to get something that was 1.30 carat or above, and am flexible between G/H colors and VVS2/VVS1 clarity gradings.
Even if this means exceeding the budget by a bit, I am fine.

I will wait for the SA to get back to me if there are other e-rings that fit that criteria, and not sure whether I should go with the 'Set for you' option.

 

[Karl_K]

Those prices are crazy.
You can get comps for close to 1/2 that online.

 

[JulieN]

The HCA is objective, but GIA numbers are too rounded to be very useful. The H might not be as bad as an unrounded HCA 5.5.

A diamond is a diamond, it does not matter if it is a Cartier or not.

You can't tell the difference in the jewelry store lights. If you spend a few days with the rings, get them dirty, you will see the difference.

Does Cartier sell VS stones? I would ask for a VS, VVS is a crazy price. Clarity has no effect on light in these VVS/VS grades, maybe some SI2 are hazy, and of course visible inclusions are detracting. You can get nice 2 ct for 25K. Or you can buy your own diamond and set it with Cartier, I thought they did not do that anymore, but I guess not.

 

[curious_tim]

Apologies, there was a typo in the heading, it should read (1.0 vs 4.4)

You can't tell the difference in the jewelry store lights. If you spend a few days with the rings, get them dirty, you will see the difference.

So out of color v clarity, which becomes more noticeable once the ring gets dirty?

A diamond is a diamond, it does not matter if it is a Cartier or not.

I understand that by choosing an individual diamond (or non-branded), I can save a lot of money or get a higher grading, but knowing that my partner really likes the setting and Cartier, I think I will stick with Cartier.

Does Cartier sell VS stones? I would ask for a VS, VVS is a crazy price. Clarity has no effect on light in these VVS/VS grades, maybe some SI2 are hazy, and of course visible inclusions are detracting.

Yes, Cartier starts from VS2 upwards, I saw the GIA cert on a VS1 ring and there were a fair number of pinpoints, marks and clouding on the reference diagram- even if this is not visible to the naked eye, will it have any impact on the diamond in say 10 years time?

Does VVS grading drive up the price that much?

You can get nice 2 ct for 25K. Or you can buy your own diamond and set it with Cartier, I thought they did not do that anymore, but I guess not.

For the 2 ct, are you referring to another brand or buying my own diamond? I thought given my budget, the most I can go was 1.4 ct.
I'm not sure if they will help do the setting though.

Thanks for the suggestions, I am still trying to read up more on the technical aspects, to make a more informed decision.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I recommend asking Cartier to find you a G VS1 or VS2 with a HCA score of under 2. You are paying the big bucks so might as well get the best cut diamond possible with a good balance of color/clarity. Most diamonds VS and above won't have visible inclusions or inclusions that impact the durability of the diamond but of course must be evaluated on a case by case basics. I rather pay for color over clarity - color most people can see all the diamond, inclusions in VS and above can sometimes not even be seen under a loupe.

With all that said, if you don't go Cartier - you are looking at a larger than 2ct for a super well cut H&A diamond. You can pair it with a beautiful platinum solitaire custom made by a fab jeweler. So the question is ... does your partner value the "Cartier" name more or a diamond that is significantly bigger?

There is no right or wrong path here as long as you are doing what she wants.

Example of other vendors for rounds:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com
http://www.whiteflash.com
http://www.goodoldgold.com
http://www.jamesallen.com

 

[curious_tim]

Update: the SA from Cartier got back to me with a loose diamond (set for you) with the following dimensions:

HCA score 2.0
1.32ct, H, VVS1
3Ex on GIA for $23,000
60.8 Depth
59.0 Table
35.0 Crown Angle
14.5 Crown Height
40.8 Pavilion Angle
43.0 Pavilion Depth
Girdle: Medium, Faceted (3.5%)
Cutlet: None
Cut Grade: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Flourescence: None

This makes the decision making that much harder now, since if I compare this to the 1.27ct, G, VVS2 with a score of HCA 1.0 (I've copied the info below), I'm not sure which one to go with, price wise, very similar.

Any suggestions or thoughts?

I have gone back and asked the SA to find any other options with clarity VS1, color either G or H. I really don' want the clarity to be any lower than VS1.

HCA score 1.0
1.27ct, G, VVS2
3Ex on GIA for $25,000
61.2 Depth
56.0 Table
34.0 Crown Angle
15.0 Crown Height
40.8 Pavilion Angle
43.0 Pavilion Depth
Girdle: Medium, Faceted (3.5%)
Cutlet: None
Cut Grade: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Flourescence: None

 

[curious_tim]

I recommend asking Cartier to find you a G VS1 or VS2 with a HCA score of under 2. You are paying the big bucks so might as well get the best cut diamond possible with a good balance of color/clarity. Most diamonds VS and above won't have visible inclusions or inclusions that impact the durability of the diamond but of course must be evaluated on a case by case basics. I rather pay for color over clarity - color most people can see all the diamond, inclusions in VS and above can sometimes not even be seen under a loupe.

With all that said, if you don't go Cartier - you are looking at a larger than 2ct for a super well cut H&A diamond. You can pair it with a beautiful platinum solitaire custom made by a fab jeweler. So the question is ... does your partner value the "Cartier" name more or a diamond that is significantly bigger?

There is no right or wrong path here as long as you are doing what she wants.

Thanks CharmyPoo. I have asked the SA from Cartier to do some more searching for VS1 and G/H color, within the specific parameters I gave them in italics below. I am not sure if they will actually check each diamond's HCA rating for me.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm pretty sure what she wants is specifically Cartier, so now is just a matter of finding the right balance for Cut (HCA rating), color and clarity.

Total depth between 59 – 61.8% and maybe up to 62%
Table diameter between 53 – 58%
Crown angle between 34.0 – 35.0 degrees and I truly prefer 34.3 – 34.9 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.5 – 41.0 degrees and I truly prefer 40.6 – 40.9 degrees

 

[hippi_pixi]

i know this was asked before but is your partner very into brand names? if she is extremely interested in brand names then definitely go the way your going. from what i understand the HCA is used to weed out bad diamonds for example i think 4.4 ought to rule out that stone. but i don't think it can be used to decide between a HCA 1 and HCA 2

if you partner is not extremely interested in brand names then definitely look into getting a better diamond and you can easily have someone make the cartier setting for you. it could look exactly the same. This is done with Tiffany settings every 5 seconds.
I originally looked at tiffany rings and was shocked at how small a diamond i would get with my budget if i went with tiffany when i could buy a much better diamond and have the exact same setting (minus T&Co stamp) elsewhere.

color and clarity should not affect the beauty of the stone nor how well it will far in 10 years or covered in grime. however cut quality will. I would much rather a H&A diamond because cut quality doesn't get any better than that (ignoring personal preference when it comes to branded cut designs)

don't worry about the inclusions diagram in the clarity range your looking at it doesn't matter. anything that would affect the structural integrity or longevity of the stone or be visible to the naked eye would result in a lower clarity grade than si1

 

[hippi_pixi]

sorry i had already written my post before i saw you say it must be cartier. like i said i believe HCA is for ruling out bad choices. so it doesn't help you decide between stones scoring 2 and 1. you could ask for idealscope or aset images?

edited to add: i don't know how it took me 9 mins to write that first post!

 

[Christina...]

sorry i had already written my post before i saw you say it must be cartier. like i said i believe HCA is for ruling out bad choices. so it doesn't help you decide between stones scoring 2 and 1. you could ask for idealscope or aset images?

edited to add: i don't know how it took me 9 mins to write that first post!

I've noticed this too and decided that it happens because my laptop clock is different than PS's clock and NOT because I type like a first grader!

OP, it's been suggested already, but I would just really encourage you to consider the VS1 and VS2 stones. The only inclusions you will ever see will be through a jewelers loupe and not with your naked eye. The price difference can be huge for something that you will never be able to visually appreciate. I've had both VVS diamonds and SI diamonds and unaided I couldn't see the difference between them. Don't worry about what the inclusion plot looks like, it's what YOU can see that matters and you won't be viewing it through the loupe as the grader was. You will also likely be able to consider a slightly larger Cartier stone..

 

[curious_tim]

i know this was asked before but is your partner very into brand names? if she is extremely interested in brand names then definitely go the way your going. from what i understand the HCA is used to weed out bad diamonds for example i think 4.4 ought to rule out that stone. but i don't think it can be used to decide between a HCA 1 and HCA 2

if you partner is not extremely interested in brand names then definitely look into getting a better diamond and you can easily have someone make the cartier setting for you. it could look exactly the same. This is done with Tiffany settings every 5 seconds.
I originally looked at tiffany rings and was shocked at how small a diamond i would get with my budget if i went with tiffany when i could buy a much better diamond and have the exact same setting (minus T&Co stamp) elsewhere.

color and clarity should not affect the beauty of the stone nor how well it will far in 10 years or covered in grime. however cut quality will. I would much rather a H&A diamond because cut quality doesn't get any better than that (ignoring personal preference when it comes to branded cut designs)

don't worry about the inclusions diagram in the clarity range your looking at it doesn't matter. anything that would affect the structural integrity or longevity of the stone or be visible to the naked eye would result in a lower clarity grade than si1

Thanks hippi pixi, I think 4.4 is surprisingly too high of a score to consider, compared to other stones that have a better HCA score from Cartier. The SA was able to find a almost identical stone as the HCA 4.4 one but with different dimensions, this one scoring HCA 2.0.

Right now, I am trying to strike the right balance in terms of color/clarity and whether I can compromise on these two in order to get a higher carat and/or a better cut (HCA 2.0 or below). My tolerance so far has been minimum of VVS2 and color H.

Edit: just saw your second post- are these 2 easy to obtain? (dealscope or aset images?)

 

[curious_tim]

OP, it's been suggested already, but I would just really encourage you to consider the VS1 and VS2 stones. The only inclusions you will ever see will be through a jewelers loupe and not with your naked eye. The price difference can be huge for something that you will never be able to visually appreciate. I've had both VVS diamonds and SI diamonds and unaided I couldn't see the difference between them. Don't worry about what the inclusion plot looks like, it's what YOU can see that matters and you won't be viewing it through the loupe as the grader was. You will also likely be able to consider a slightly larger Cartier stone..

Thanks Christina, I think after reading more threads and really giving it some thought, I will now consider the VS1 and VS2 gradings, in order to get a better color (from H to G/F) or a larger carat.

Is it true that if 2 diamonds with the exact same dimensions, but one is graded VVS1, the other VS2, then a normal person wont be able to see the difference with the naked eye? I have read stories where some people were able to see the markings on their VS2 diamond after finding out where they were (hence know where to look).

Perhaps I could find VS2 stones where the flaws are on the bottom or corner/edges of the stone? Will this mask it better?

If it were you, would you go for a higher grade color or larger carat, if you dropped from VVS1 to VS2?

 

[curious_tim]

One more question I just thought of- is it reasonable/acceptable if I go into a Cartier boutique and ask them to show me a shortlist of stones matching my criteria, then showing me the GIA and the parameters (depth, crown/pavilion angle) and calculating the score either on the spot or later on?

I have only been into the store twice and haven't noticed any customers doing this- in fact, most of the ones I saw were just happy to compare different diamonds with their naked eye and then made a decision then and there, whether or not to buy.

The way the SA puts it when showing me the GIA, does make me feel slightly pressured to ask, ie they actually tell me that they can show me the GIA, if I was really interested on the ring.....I'm thinking that isn't a big ask is it, for such a high value purchase? I suppose the key is to be more stern once they start putting pressure for the sale. There are about 8 Cartier boutiques to choose from in my area, so I guess I can always try a different boutique to inquire further.

 

[Niel]

One more question I just thought of- is it reasonable/acceptable if I go into a Cartier boutique and ask them to show me a shortlist of stones matching my criteria, then showing me the GIA and the parameters (depth, crown/pavilion angle) and calculating the score either on the spot or later on?

I have only been into the store twice and haven't noticed any customers doing this- in fact, most of the ones I saw were just happy to compare different diamonds with their naked eye and then made a decision then and there, whether or not to buy.

The way the SA puts it when showing me the GIA, does make me feel slightly pressured to ask, ie they actually tell me that they can show me the GIA, if I was really interested on the ring.....I'm thinking that isn't a big ask is it, for such a high value purchase? I suppose the key is to be more stern once they start putting pressure for the sale. There are about 8 Cartier boutiques to choose from in my area, so I guess I can always try a different boutique to inquire further.

For the prices they are charging you you should get all the information your little heart desires. Also, Cartier isnt known for ideal cut diamonds. They may have some, but they are known for there name. So the reason you might not see Cartier customers doing much more than comparing by eye is because cut is not there first concern. however, your eyes are the BEST tool, so its good to use both the HCA and your eyes, however, in jewelry store lighting, even a pebble would shine

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I understand the appeal of the brand, but what I did was get a BETTER quality diamond and and EQUAL quality handforged setting (Tiffany repro) for my (anniversary upgrade) engagement ring, and I got a REAL Tiffany wedding band. That way I have the best of both...a Tiffany set but my engagement ring diamond is larger and better quality than what Tiffany sells.

You can get an ideal cut 1.7 G VS2 for $20k:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2762643.htm

Look at this, superior hearts and arrows (super ideal cut) 1.55 ct, E VVS2 for $25k:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9194/

Or superideal 1.66 ct, G VS2 for $18.6k:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9194/

Then you can get a Cartier similar setting from a master ring maker, such as Victor Canera:

http://www.victorcanera.com/jewelry/engagement-rings/the-trueste-solitaire

It just kills me to see you spend $25k for a 1.3 ct diamond ring with a lesser quality diamond than the super ideal cuts when you can get a 1.6-1.7 ct. diamond elsewhere. Actually, if you are willing to consider H color, you will be in the high one carat range closer to 2 cts. Does she understand how much bigger diamond she could have for that budget? And still get a Cartier wedding band?

At Cartier, I would insist on seeing all the GIA reports for all diamond within your specs...1.3-1.49 cts., G-H, VS1 and VS2. They don't know what the HCA is, so you just need the info so you can weed out which ones are best. And I will say, even if her choice is the smaller stone with the Cartier brand, you were soooo smart to come here to screen the stones!

 

[tarung81]

In my experience, I have seen stones with high HCA scores over 3 or 4, which still were excellent... The GIA excellent grade is quite reliable and rarely will you see a diamond which are graded Triple Excellent have bad light performance or leakage! Therefore, trust your eyes first always then the HCA score, etc.... A good case study about this you can read in the following link: http://goodoldgold.com/4Cs/NewCutGrading/GIAExAGSIdeal/

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It is true that the HCA is limited and is just a screening device. We always, always recommend buying diamonds for which an idealscope image can be provided. There absolutely are GIA Excellent stones with some leakage, and the idealscope image shows it. I never depend on the HCA. And I would never buy a $25k diamond (or even a $5k one) without an idealscope (or equivalent such as ASET or DiamXray) image.

 

[curious_tim]

It is true that the HCA is limited and is just a screening device. We always, always recommend buying diamonds for which an idealscope image can be provided. There absolutely are GIA Excellent stones with some leakage, and the idealscope image shows it. I never depend on the HCA. And I would never buy a $25k diamond (or even a $5k one) without an idealscope (or equivalent such as ASET or DiamXray) image.

Thanks diamondseeker and tarung.

Do you know if Cartier can or will provide an idealscope image?

 

[curious_tim]

I understand the appeal of the brand, but what I did was get a BETTER quality diamond and and EQUAL quality handforged setting (Tiffany repro) for my (anniversary upgrade) engagement ring, and I got a REAL Tiffany wedding band. That way I have the best of both...a Tiffany set but my engagement ring diamond is larger and better quality than what Tiffany sells.

It just kills me to see you spend $25k for a 1.3 ct diamond ring with a lesser quality diamond than the super ideal cuts when you can get a 1.6-1.7 ct. diamond elsewhere. Actually, if you are willing to consider H color, you will be in the high one carat range closer to 2 cts. Does she understand how much bigger diamond she could have for that budget? And still get a Cartier wedding band?

At Cartier, I would insist on seeing all the GIA reports for all diamond within your specs...1.3-1.49 cts., G-H, VS1 and VS2. They don't know what the HCA is, so you just need the info so you can weed out which ones are best. And I will say, even if her choice is the smaller stone with the Cartier brand, you were soooo smart to come here to screen the stones!

Thank you for the suggestions diamondseeker, the more threads I read here, the more I understand that a lot of people do buy their own diamond (usually a much better and bigger one) and then get it made to their preferred setting (Cartier, TIffany etc)

Yes, my gf does understand she can get a larger diamond or better quality one, but she does prefer Cartier which is why I haven't really explored that route (yet). To be fair, she does not know my budget, which I have had to bump up somewhat given the premium Cartier charges (!) She is also keen on the Cartier wedding band to compliment the ring.

Yes, I plan to go to another boutique prepared with all my range of specs and the defined tolerant range for depth, crown/pav angles in order to find the best cut ring for my budget, will be sure to post back with the details or the GIA #.

While it would be good to be able to get a 1.8 or even up to 2 ct diamond if buying separately, knowing that she wants Cartier but only expecting 1-1.10 ct, hopefully if I can get 1.30 or above, that would surprise her!

The one I saw with a HCA score of 1.0 (1.27ct, G, VVS2, 3Ex) is my preferred choice now, but I want to get a slightly bigger carat, so will sacrifice on the clarity or color, to see what that gets me- hopefully it wont mean inferior cuts (with HCA scores above 4).

 

[bunnycat]

It is true that the HCA is limited and is just a screening device. We always, always recommend buying diamonds for which an idealscope image can be provided. There absolutely are GIA Excellent stones with some leakage, and the idealscope image shows it. I never depend on the HCA. And I would never buy a $25k diamond (or even a $5k one) without an idealscope (or equivalent such as ASET or DiamXray) image.

Thanks diamondseeker and tarung.

Do you know if Cartier can or will provide an idealscope image?

They probably don't have one, but you can get one easily and is costs about $30. It's a magnifier with a colored cap on it to show where leakage is on a diamond. And there definitely are GIA EX stones that are leaky, maybe they are better than the commercial grade diamonds at the mall, but for the kind of money OP is about to throw down, a reasonable well informed decision with as much info as he can get seems like a smart thing. Would you buy an unreliable car just because of the name? (Well...maybe some people would.....)

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope

 

[diamondseeker2006]

In previous cases here, we have not seen any of the luxury brands providing idealscope images. The overall attitude has been that they are luxury brands and of course have the best diamonds and they don't need to be questioned on that. But we have seen this multiple times that some of their stones are not the top end precision cut stones. They are good stones, but not necessarily the best. But we will absolutely help you get the best stone they have by the numbers!!

I advise you to look for these measurements:

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0

pavilion angle: 40.6-41.0

And GIA XXX, of course. These measurements will usually keep you in ideal cut territory.

 

[partgypsy]

"Thank you for the suggestions diamondseeker, the more threads I read here, the more I understand that a lot of people do buy their own diamond (usually a much better and bigger one) and then get it made to their preferred setting (Cartier, TIffany etc)"

Actually that is not the case. Tiffany, and probably Cartier as well, will NOT set a stone that is not theirs (i.e. outside stone) into Tiffany setting.

What many people do on this forum, is pick out the best diamond they can, and then set it, into say a vendor's setting that is similar to one of the branded settings, or in a handmade setting. But you can't buy a stone and then bring it to say Cartier to set. (If I am wrong, please correct me). There are a number of reasons for this, part being profit margin, part being control over the product.

For myself I would pick a nonbranded stone with excellent cut and pocket the additional 10K. But if you had to choose, probably choose the H stone for 23K, because it is slightly bigger and slightly less expensive, and H color and above is my sweet spot.
Do you know if your girlfriend is color sensitive? Some people want diamonds with no tint of color. It is safer to go down in clarity (VS level) and higher in color if this is the case.

 

[Niel]

If the girl wants Cartier that badly I'm almost included to say get her it. The only think I would do though, first. Is take her to a regular non Cartier or Tiffany Jewelry store and have her try on a 1.2 ct and a 1.6 ct and be honest and say, I can get you either of these, but only the smaller one will be Cartier. Which one would make you happier.

If she says the Cartier while staring a larger diamond in the face, then get her the Cartier.

If she doesn't, just get a Cartier inspired ring and a Cartier w band

 

[curious_tim]

In previous cases here, we have not seen any of the luxury brands providing idealscope images. The overall attitude has been that they are luxury brands and of course have the best diamonds and they don't need to be questioned on that. But we have seen this multiple times that some of their stones are not the top end precision cut stones. They are good stones, but not necessarily the best. But we will absolutely help you get the best stone they have by the numbers!!

I advise you to look for these measurements:

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0

pavilion angle: 40.6-41.0

And GIA XXX, of course. These measurements will usually keep you in ideal cut territory.

I didn't think the luxury brands will provide idealscope images, unless I was about to buy an ultra expensive diamond!

Does this mean even if I am able to find a stone with an Excellent cut HCA score <2.0, there is still potential there is leakage on the diamond? And any leakages can only be seen via an idealscope? This part is new info to me, as I am still learning more about picking the best stone for my budget.

Really appreciate all the helpful replies from everyone here so far, it is a fair bit of information to digest, but I'm sure it'll be worth it when I get the right e-ring!

I have the below range jotted down in my notes, but will also include your measurement range when searching for more stones at the boutique tomorrow, thanks!
Total depth between 59 – 61.8% and maybe up to 62%
Table diameter between 53 – 58%
Crown angle between 34.0 – 35.0 degrees and I truly prefer 34.3 – 34.9 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.5 – 41.0 degrees and I truly prefer 40.6 – 40.9 degrees


Are there any other factors to look out for when viewing the diamond (with naked eye) or the GIA certificate? Is it worthwhile using the 10x scope to look for any inclusions on VS2-VS1 clarity diamonds?

 

[curious_tim]

Actually that is not the case. Tiffany, and probably Cartier as well, will NOT set a stone that is not theirs (i.e. outside stone) into Tiffany setting.

What many people do on this forum, is pick out the best diamond they can, and then set it, into say a vendor's setting that is similar to one of the branded settings, or in a handmade setting. But you can't buy a stone and then bring it to say Cartier to set. (If I am wrong, please correct me). There are a number of reasons for this, part being profit margin, part being control over the product.

For myself I would pick a nonbranded stone with excellent cut and pocket the additional 10K. But if you had to choose, probably choose the H stone for 23K, because it is slightly bigger and slightly less expensive, and H color and above is my sweet spot.
Do you know if your girlfriend is color sensitive? Some people want diamonds with no tint of color. It is safer to go down in clarity (VS level) and higher in color if this is the case.

I didn't know if Cartier or Tiffany would help you with setting the stone, but I can see your point.

I am not sure how much of a difference a HCA score of 1.0 vs 2.0 is, the H color does seem better value since its also slight bigger as you say. However, since this H stone is going to be made to order, I wont get to see the stone until it has been made and shipped over, so there is a slight risk we may not like it. if that makes sense?

I don't think she is color sensitive, she couldn't tell the difference between a G/H color in the same clarity (VVS2) in the boutique, but I'm not sure if this is due to the bright lighting. Is the difference between G and H color noticeable?

Some of the inclusions I've seen on the reference chart on the GIA in VS1 or VVS2 stones are not possible to see with the 10x scope, especially if they are in the corner/edges once mounted. For this reason, I will look for VS2/VS1 stones and hope to improve on the colour (from H to G) or carat size.

 

[curious_tim]

If the girl wants Cartier that badly I'm almost included to say get her it. The only think I would do though, first. Is take her to a regular non Cartier or Tiffany Jewelry store and have her try on a 1.2 ct and a 1.6 ct and be honest and say, I can get you either of these, but only the smaller one will be Cartier. Which one would make you happier.

If she says the Cartier while staring a larger diamond in the face, then get her the Cartier.

If she doesn't, just get a Cartier inspired ring and a Cartier w band

I know for a fact that she'd be ecstatic if the e-ring from Cartier, so at this stage, I still plan on getting from Cartier. I have taken her to a different jewelry store previously where she tried on a larger one (1.7ct) but she still preferred the Cartier (even though that one was 1.3 ct), so I'm 98% sure Cartier is her first choice (unless I can suddenly afford HW!)

 

[bunnycat]

In previous cases here, we have not seen any of the luxury brands providing idealscope images. The overall attitude has been that they are luxury brands and of course have the best diamonds and they don't need to be questioned on that. But we have seen this multiple times that some of their stones are not the top end precision cut stones. They are good stones, but not necessarily the best. But we will absolutely help you get the best stone they have by the numbers!!

I advise you to look for these measurements:

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0

pavilion angle: 40.6-41.0

And GIA XXX, of course. These measurements will usually keep you in ideal cut territory.

I didn't think the luxury brands will provide idealscope images, unless I was about to buy an ultra expensive diamond!

Does this mean even if I am able to find a stone with an Excellent cut HCA score <2.0, there is still potential there is leakage on the diamond? And any leakages can only be seen via an idealscope? This part is new info to me, as I am still learning more about picking the best stone for my budget.

Really appreciate all the helpful replies from everyone here so far, it is a fair bit of information to digest, but I'm sure it'll be worth it when I get the right e-ring!

I have the below range jotted down in my notes, but will also include your measurement range when searching for more stones at the boutique tomorrow, thanks!
Total depth between 59 – 61.8% and maybe up to 62%
Table diameter between 53 – 58%
Crown angle between 34.0 – 35.0 degrees and I truly prefer 34.3 – 34.9 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.5 – 41.0 degrees and I truly prefer 40.6 – 40.9 degrees


Are there any other factors to look out for when viewing the diamond (with naked eye) or the GIA certificate? Is it worthwhile using the 10x scope to look for any inclusions on VS2-VS1 clarity diamonds?

They aren't going to provide them period. It's not what they do. Idealscope and cut performance is a relatively new concept that jewelry stores are lately having to come to grips with because people have never asked before and just trusted the jeweler. You can buy one cheaply and use it on any diamond you look at no matter how expensive or inexpensive.