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IMO...the U.S government need to start deporting illegal aliens...

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Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
31,071
they''re costing the taxpayers millions eveyday especially here in Ca.
lets spent the $$$''s on educating our kids and take of our elderly citizens.
 

trillionaire

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
3,881
Date: 3/19/2009 12:03:44 AM
Author:Dancing Fire
they''re costing the taxpayers millions eveyday especially here in Ca.
lets spent the $$$''s on educating our kids and take of our elderly citizens.
They should also start deporting AIG and wall street execs, lazy americans, the unemployed and people on welfare and public assistance! Drains on the economy they are!


oh snap, I''m unemployed.


Well, it SEEMED like a good argument...
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
31,071
Date: 3/19/2009 12:15:05 AM
Author: trillionaire

Date: 3/19/2009 12:03:44 AM
Author:Dancing Fire
they''re costing the taxpayers millions eveyday especially here in Ca.
lets spent the $$$''s on educating our kids and take of our elderly citizens.
They should also start deporting AIG and wall street execs, lazy americans, the unemployed and people on welfare and public assistance! Drains on the economy they are!


oh snap, I''m unemployed.


Well, it SEEMED like a good argument...
yup,them too!!
 

AllieGator

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
316
It''s easy to say that, but how would we fill the jobs that they do?

Many people state that they take away jobs from Americans, but they are jobs Americans won''t do.

I agree that there is an illegal immigration problem, but I don''t think the answer is to deport them...instead, they should make it easier for them to come legally. Then they can pay taxes, and less money would be spent on keeping/kicking them out.

If they are deported, I think that jobless Americans should be put into their jobs...those americans may not like it, but a job is still a job. There is nothing shameful about picking fruit, being dishwashers, etc...but many Americans feel that they are "too good" for such jobs.
 

KimberlyH

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
7,485
I ask this in all sincerity, Who will do the jobs that are now being done by said illegal immigrants at a wage that would allow prices of the products they produce not to be raised? And what happens to our already flailing economy when those businesses fail because they can''t find labor at the same cost, in turn raise their prices, and lose profitibility or have to shut down? Or to the families who need the items produced by these companies and can no longer afford them because the price is too high?

I do understand the financial burden (public schooling, healthcare costs, etc.) you are addressing, but there is more to the story.
 

AllieGator

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
316
Date: 3/19/2009 10:00:07 AM
Author: KimberlyH
I ask this in all sincerity, Who will do the jobs that are now being done by said illegal immigrants at a wage that would allow prices of the products they produce not to be raised? And what happens to our already flailing economy when those businesses fail because they can''t find labor at the same cost, in turn raise their prices, and lose profitibility or have to shut down? Or to the families who need the items produced by these companies and can no longer afford them because the price is too high?


I do understand the financial burden (public schooling, healthcare costs, etc.) you are addressing, but there is more to the story.
That''s a question I ask myself... we can''t have it both ways--either we have illegal immigrants, and the prices stay down, or we don''t have them, and our prices go up.

You can''t have your cake and eat it too, right?
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Date: 3/19/2009 9:55:54 AM
Author: AllieGator
It''s easy to say that, but how would we fill the jobs that they do?


Many people state that they take away jobs from Americans, but they are jobs Americans won''t do.
That is no longer true and really was never true.
They have decimated the construction industry and prices have not come down much.
It just goes into other pockets.
They are also taking the jobs traditionally done by young Americans which gave them very valuable life lessons at a young age.
If the employees are really needed then address it by legal and fair emigration that gives everyone a fair shot.
For every illegal immigrant job there is a legal immigrant denied entry or an American out of work.
 

KimberlyH

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
7,485
Strm, are their statistics that prove that every job filled my an illegal immigrant would have been filled by an American citizen at the same wage (which allows businesses to keep costs down for consumers)? And again, I ask in all sincerity, I am truly curious as to where people get their facts regarding this subject as I would think it difficult if not impossible to track.

I also wonder how it would affect the economy in that it would lead to loss of dollars exchanged because deportation would mean a lot less people spending money in this country. Rent money would be lost, grocery store profits would be down, etc.
 

AllieGator

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
316
Date: 3/19/2009 10:14:27 AM
Author: strmrdr
Date: 3/19/2009 9:55:54 AM

Author: AllieGator

It''s easy to say that, but how would we fill the jobs that they do?



Many people state that they take away jobs from Americans, but they are jobs Americans won''t do.
That is no longer true and really was never true.

They have decimated the construction industry and prices have not come down much.

It just goes into other pockets.

They are also taking the jobs traditionally done by young Americans which gave them very valuable life lessons at a young age.

If the employees are really needed then address it by legal and fair emigration that gives everyone a fair shot.

For every illegal immigrant job there is a legal immigrant denied entry or an American out of work.

Here is an example...it was originally published by an NBC affiliate in the Bay Area of California. This doesn''t specifically have to do with illegal immigration, but it DOES have to do with immigrants doing jobs that Americans will not do. It''s a bit older, but I think it still rings true.




Northern California Farmers worried fruit will rot on trees
 

beebrisk

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
1,000
Date: 3/19/2009 9:55:54 AM
Author: AllieGator
It''s easy to say that, but how would we fill the jobs that they do?


Many people state that they take away jobs from Americans, but they are jobs Americans won''t do.
I could fix that in about 2 minutes. Put all those who are able-bodied yet "won''t" do the work (and sitting around collecting social services checks) into those positions--at a legal wage, of course. Refuse the job, the check stops the next day.
Jobs created.
Done.

Prices might go up, but perhaps our welfare bill will go down.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
31,071
Date: 3/19/2009 11:28:51 AM
Author: beebrisk

Date: 3/19/2009 9:55:54 AM
Author: AllieGator
It''s easy to say that, but how would we fill the jobs that they do?


Many people state that they take away jobs from Americans, but they are jobs Americans won''t do.
I could fix that in about 2 minutes. Put all those who are able-bodied yet ''won''t'' do the work (and sitting around collecting social services checks) into those positions--at a legal wage, of course. Refuse the job, the check stops the next day.
Jobs created.
Done.

Prices might go up, but perhaps our welfare bill will go down.
BB
our country need people like you working in Wash D.C
 

AllieGator

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
316
Date: 3/19/2009 11:28:51 AM
Author: beebrisk
Date: 3/19/2009 9:55:54 AM

Author: AllieGator

It''s easy to say that, but how would we fill the jobs that they do?



Many people state that they take away jobs from Americans, but they are jobs Americans won''t do.

I could fix that in about 2 minutes. Put all those who are able-bodied yet ''won''t'' do the work (and sitting around collecting social services checks) into those positions--at a legal wage, of course. Refuse the job, the check stops the next day.

Jobs created.

Done.


Prices might go up, but perhaps our welfare bill will go down.
I do know that...in fact, I suggested it in my original post. You are absolutely right about that...I agree with you.
 

beebrisk

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
1,000
Date: 3/19/2009 11:37:20 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
Date: 3/19/2009 11:28:51 AM

Author: beebrisk


Date: 3/19/2009 9:55:54 AM

Author: AllieGator

It''s easy to say that, but how would we fill the jobs that they do?



Many people state that they take away jobs from Americans, but they are jobs Americans won''t do.

I could fix that in about 2 minutes. Put all those who are able-bodied yet ''won''t'' do the work (and sitting around collecting social services checks) into those positions--at a legal wage, of course. Refuse the job, the check stops the next day.

Jobs created.

Done.


Prices might go up, but perhaps our welfare bill will go down.
BB

our country need people like you working in Wash D.C
But a concept as elementary as this is too simple for our fed''s to wrap their heads around and certainly too "mean" for Pelosi and her libs to get behind.

 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
31,071
Date: 3/19/2009 11:48:48 AM
Author: beebrisk

BB

our country need people like you working in Wash D.C
But a concept as elementary as this is too simple for our fed''s to wrap their heads around and certainly too ''mean'' for Pelosi and her libs to get behind.

 

purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
4,079
Talked to any self entitled youth recently? Found any willing to work for less than $10 an hour? Didn''t think so.

Sure they partake in public school and hospitalization, but on the other hand THEY aren''t the ones on welfare and living in Section 8 housing.

''Scuse me but I''ll keep the hard working "illegal" mexican workers and deport the welfare leaches instead.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Date: 3/19/2009 1:08:56 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Talked to any self entitled youth recently? Found any willing to work for less than $10 an hour? Didn''t think so.
So your saying your ok with exploiting people from other countries by not paying them a decent wage?
If the jobs are so great and $3 an hour is so kewl why don''t you take one of those jobs?

In saving a few fat cats a few pennies it is costing every one else billions.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Date: 3/19/2009 10:33:25 AM
Author: AllieGator

Here is an example...it was originally published by an NBC affiliate in the Bay Area of California. This doesn''t specifically have to do with illegal immigration, but it DOES have to do with immigrants doing jobs that Americans will not do. It''s a bit older, but I think it still rings true.





Northern California Farmers worried fruit will rot on trees
Should throw him in jail for breaking employment laws instead of rewarding him with cheap labor.
 

purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
4,079
Date: 3/19/2009 1:24:00 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 3/19/2009 1:08:56 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Talked to any self entitled youth recently? Found any willing to work for less than $10 an hour? Didn''t think so.
So your saying your ok with exploiting people from other countries by not paying them a decent wage?
If the jobs are so great and $3 an hour is so kewl why don''t you take one of those jobs?

In saving a few fat cats a few pennies it is costing every one else billions.
Not really, I don''t have to. But I do remember working for $1.61/hr. in 1969.

That said, my point was that these jobs exist. They will always exist. Not all jobs pay the same. WalMart greeters don''t make 6 figures. Gardeners and maids don''t either. Those are jobs that teens today think is "beneath them". Well the people from other countries do not think that work is beneath them. You say exploitation, I say lower wage job. No one twists arms and makes anyone take them. Obviously today''s American youth isn''t willing.


Just exactly how much do you think the "fat cats" should pay someone to flip a burger or dig a ditch?
 

beebrisk

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
1,000
Date: 3/19/2009 2:08:24 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Date: 3/19/2009 1:24:00 PM

Author: strmrdr


Date: 3/19/2009 1:08:56 PM

Author: purrfectpear

Talked to any self entitled youth recently? Found any willing to work for less than $10 an hour? Didn''t think so.
So your saying your ok with exploiting people from other countries by not paying them a decent wage?

If the jobs are so great and $3 an hour is so kewl why don''t you take one of those jobs?


In saving a few fat cats a few pennies it is costing every one else billions.
Not really, I don''t have to. But I do remember working for $1.61/hr. in 1969.


That said, my point was that these jobs exist. They will always exist. Not all jobs pay the same. WalMart greeters don''t make 6 figures. Gardeners and maids don''t either. Those are jobs that teens today think is ''beneath them''. Well the people from other countries do not think that work is beneath them. You say exploitation, I say lower wage job. No one twists arms and makes anyone take them. Obviously today''s American youth isn''t willing.



Just exactly how much do you think the ''fat cats'' should pay someone to flip a burger or dig a ditch?
So, because illegals are "willing" and no one "twists their arms" they should be paid a slave''s wage? It IS a lower wage job and it IS exploitation.

Look, if some spoiled 16 year old doesn''t want to work and their parents are supporting them, that''s between the kid and the parents. However, if the parent is sitting home collecting welfare, and no one in the household "WANTS" to work, then place them in a job, or end their "entitlement".
 

vespergirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
5,497
Date: 3/19/2009 9:55:54 AM
Author: AllieGator
It''s easy to say that, but how would we fill the jobs that they do?

Many people state that they take away jobs from Americans, but they are jobs Americans won''t do.

I agree that there is an illegal immigration problem, but I don''t think the answer is to deport them...instead, they should make it easier for them to come legally. Then they can pay taxes, and less money would be spent on keeping/kicking them out.

If they are deported, I think that jobless Americans should be put into their jobs...those americans may not like it, but a job is still a job. There is nothing shameful about picking fruit, being dishwashers, etc...but many Americans feel that they are ''too good'' for such jobs.
I couldn''t agree more. A lot of Americans complain about not being able to find work right now - just for kicks, I walked into all of the fast food restaurants in my area to see if they were hiring. They ALL were. There ARE jobs available, but a lot of Americans don''t want to flip burgers, never mind something as physically demanding as agricultural work.

The problem with putting Americans in those jobs, though, is that the cost of produce would go sky-high. I recently read an article that said that if we deported all the Mexican fruit pickers the price of a single pear would average $7 if we had to pay Americans to do the work.

It''s amazing that most of the people who want to kick out the Mexicans are also the ones who shop for super-discounts and Wal-Mart. You can''t have it both ways.
 

Hudson_Hawk

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
10,541
Part of the problem is if you were laid off from a job that paid a decent salary, you''re still going to make more from UE than from working a minimum wage job. Taking a new job, even for less pay will cancel your UE. True, you have to look for work while receiving UE, but you''re entitled to take a job that provides a "reasonable offer" which I take to mean at the same rate as UE or higher.

UE isn''t public assistance in the sense of welfare. It''s insurance that was paid for you while you worked. You EARN your UE and you''re entitled to it.

I agree that many of the jobs held by IAs are jobs that would be appropriate for a teenager. In fact, my little brother is 16 and he is washing dishes at a restaurant in town. He is SO proud of this and is excited at the prospect of being allowed to help with food prep and moving onto the line.
 

cara

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
2,202
Even teenagers have standards, and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. I had an old gas-guzzling clunker in high school (bought by my parents) and just about broke even driving it to work during the summer one year when I worked at a camp that paid superlow wages. And that is with my parents paying for insurance. It certainly didn't pay enough for covering my basic life expenses (food, clothes, housing) and made me think that perhaps minimum wage was not really a high enough bar. I liked working with kids and the camp related perks so I didn't quit, but I definitely thought about it because I was basically working for free. I also noticed that only middle to upper class teens could even afford to work at the camp, because they were not really paid sufficiently.

In college, I ended up not working work-study my last two years. I lived in a tiny college town, the only jobs were paid through the school and were either minimum wage or a few cents per hour above minimum. The first two years, basically I would earn enough to pay my phone bill and maybe buy a snack once a week or so. The time away from my studies and sleep and other college experiences was just not worth it when the total amount I would have earned was such a tiny fraction of my tuition/R&B bill. At a less expensive college maybe the math would have been different, but it was definitely the right call for me then.

While I think moving the minimum wage up is definitely a step in the right direction, the cheap illegal labor has changed what people expect to pay for things and it will involve some painful adjustments to pay living wages to all people. We will have to retrain people into thinking that fruit-picking and lawn-mowing and dish-washing are actually things that need to be paid for, and not just whatever wage some desperate undocumented person is willing to accept.
 

Allisonfaye

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
1,455
Date: 3/19/2009 2:08:24 PM
Author: purrfectpear

Date: 3/19/2009 1:24:00 PM
Author: strmrdr


Date: 3/19/2009 1:08:56 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Talked to any self entitled youth recently? Found any willing to work for less than $10 an hour? Didn''t think so.
So your saying your ok with exploiting people from other countries by not paying them a decent wage?
If the jobs are so great and $3 an hour is so kewl why don''t you take one of those jobs?

In saving a few fat cats a few pennies it is costing every one else billions.
Not really, I don''t have to. But I do remember working for $1.61/hr. in 1969.

That said, my point was that these jobs exist. They will always exist. Not all jobs pay the same. WalMart greeters don''t make 6 figures. Gardeners and maids don''t either. Those are jobs that teens today think is ''beneath them''. Well the people from other countries do not think that work is beneath them. You say exploitation, I say lower wage job. No one twists arms and makes anyone take them. Obviously today''s American youth isn''t willing.


Just exactly how much do you think the ''fat cats'' should pay someone to flip a burger or dig a ditch?
Until very recently, EVERYONE in Cuba made the exact same wage....farmers, doctors...everyone. Many people think it should be the same way here.
 

trillionaire

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
3,881
Until minimum wage is a living wage, we will always have people who choose welfare over work, and allow ''other people'' to take unglamorous jobs.

If I can work 50-60 hrs a week and not make ends meet, and I have no health care for my family, welfare might be more logical. That doesn''t make me lazy, that makes me rational.
 

Beacon

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
2,037
Date: 3/19/2009 11:28:51 AM
Author: beebrisk

Date: 3/19/2009 9:55:54 AM
Author: AllieGator
It''s easy to say that, but how would we fill the jobs that they do?


Many people state that they take away jobs from Americans, but they are jobs Americans won''t do.
I could fix that in about 2 minutes. Put all those who are able-bodied yet ''won''t'' do the work (and sitting around collecting social services checks) into those positions--at a legal wage, of course. Refuse the job, the check stops the next day.
Jobs created.
Done.

Prices might go up, but perhaps our welfare bill will go down.
This is great - I''ll vote for it! So sick of people who collect gov''t "assistance" who are too lazy and comfortable to go find a job!

Speaking of immigrants, look at what is being proposed:

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/212121/Plan-to-Solve-Crisis-Let-Immigrants-Buy-Houses?tickers=XHB,TLT,TOL,DHI,PHM,UUP,%5EDJI?sec=topStories&pos=8&asset=TBD&ccode=TBD
 

purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
4,079
Date: 3/19/2009 4:14:58 PM
Author: trillionaire
Until minimum wage is a living wage, we will always have people who choose welfare over work, and allow ''other people'' to take unglamorous jobs.

If I can work 50-60 hrs a week and not make ends meet, and I have no health care for my family, welfare might be more logical. That doesn''t make me lazy, that makes me rational.
But the difference is, to an IA, it is a living wage. They manage to pool their resources, share apartments/food/trucks, supporting themselves and family back home.

Our sense of "living" is one of entitlement. We believe we are entitled to have a bedroom of our own. In the last century prewar, it wasn''t uncommon for American families to share homes with aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc. We shoehorned ourselves into what we could afford sharing bedrooms, putting up blankets to divide rooms, etc. Sort of like the IA are willing to do now.

Just because we''ve moved on and are now unwilling to make those sort of sacrifices (preferring welfare) does not mean that an IA who IS willing to sacrifice is being made a slave.
 

beebrisk

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
1,000
Date: 3/19/2009 4:14:58 PM
Author: trillionaire
Until minimum wage is a living wage, we will always have people who choose welfare over work, and allow ''other people'' to take unglamorous jobs.


If I can work 50-60 hrs a week and not make ends meet, and I have no health care for my family, welfare might be more logical. That doesn''t make me lazy, that makes me rational.
While I agree that the current min. wage is ridiculous, it can be (in a ''real'' economy, anyway) a stepping stone to a better salary and a better job. At the very LEAST you might have a chance at advancement and opportunity.

Welfare offers absolutely nothing in the way of a future, which is why the last 40 years has produced generation after generation of cradle-to-grave dependents.
 

trillionaire

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
3,881
Date: 3/19/2009 4:43:35 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Date: 3/19/2009 4:14:58 PM

Author: trillionaire

Until minimum wage is a living wage, we will always have people who choose welfare over work, and allow ''other people'' to take unglamorous jobs.


If I can work 50-60 hrs a week and not make ends meet, and I have no health care for my family, welfare might be more logical. That doesn''t make me lazy, that makes me rational.
But the difference is, to an IA, it is a living wage. They manage to pool their resources, share apartments/food/trucks, supporting themselves and family back home.


Our sense of ''living'' is one of entitlement. We believe we are entitled to have a bedroom of our own. In the last century prewar, it wasn''t uncommon for American families to share homes with aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc. We shoehorned ourselves into what we could afford sharing bedrooms, putting up blankets to divide rooms, etc. Sort of like the IA are willing to do now.


Just because we''ve moved on and are now unwilling to make those sort of sacrifices (preferring welfare) does not mean that an IA who IS willing to sacrifice is being made a slave.
I concur.
 

tlh

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
4,511
Date: 3/19/2009 3:07:59 PM
Author: vespergirl

I couldn''t agree more. A lot of Americans complain about not being able to find work right now - just for kicks, I walked into all of the fast food restaurants in my area to see if they were hiring. They ALL were. There ARE jobs available, but a lot of Americans don''t want to flip burgers, never mind something as physically demanding as agricultural work.

The problem with putting Americans in those jobs, though, is that the cost of produce would go sky-high. I recently read an article that said that if we deported all the Mexican fruit pickers the price of a single pear would average $7 if we had to pay Americans to do the work.

It''s amazing that most of the people who want to kick out the Mexicans are also the ones who shop for super-discounts and Wal-Mart. You can''t have it both ways.
I live in AZ. That is not necessarily true here. The areas I would go into - don''t post jobs... and didn''t have any available. I find it interesting because my BIL was laid off and has been out of work since December- and is still "looking". I went around and asked a few places that did morning shifts- 7-4 hours - and they were not hiring. (That way he could make $$ while still looking.) He would rather sit and collect unemployment. So in some cases you are right.
He was raised by parents that gave him everything. My parents made me work for it- and well I am still not above working at a fast food place to be able to cover the expenses. So I wouldn''t say that is everyone. I am not saying, my pride might take a hit - but it would be better to hit my pride - than my credit AND pride when my car is repo-d. But this won''t happen to the BIL - his parents will continue to bail him out.... interesting... bail outs = no lesson learned... hmmm... Congress anyone???
 
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