I''m rather fed up with people making slight remarks about Americans!

[justginger]

I understand what you''re saying, elle, and can see how you''ve come to that conclusion. I think what I''m trying to get across is that the stereotypes are based on real people, and I just get worn out trying to explain them to the rest of the world. There ARE a lot of very loud Americans who are not considerate of their surroundings. I do not mean to suggest that ALL Americans are as I described -- or else I''d be talking about my entire family and dozens of friends! There are terrible individuals of all nationalities traveling abroad, however it is only the Americans who make life difficult to me. It doesn''t matter to me if there is a loud, degrading Welsh person in line at the bank. It doesn''t matter if a Chilean is swearing at a waitress in Spanish. I can ignore those things because they won''t eventually be thrown back in my face. I just wish *some* Americans would behave a bit better when they''re in the international community, because there are a few of us who reap what they sow.

That being said, I do love my home. <3 Americans are some of the most genuine, friendly, and hospitable people in the world and I think the vast majority who visit the States would agree unequivocally.

 

[loriken214]

Date: 12/20/2009 6:47:06 AM
Author: LilyKat

Date: 12/20/2009 12:24:20 AM
Author: loriken214
I have a penpal that came to America from Ireland in 1986. He got his college degree here and has fathered 4 children from two American women here. He HATES America, but still he''s here for the opportunities that she affords him. He refuses to become an American citizen and carries his green card.


Even though this person HATES this country, he still came here for his education and for job opportunities. It is easy to condemn America, but she''s here to use when you need her.


Lori

Loriken, not sure exactly what you''re trying to imply by this, but I''d say your friend is the exception rather than the rule. The majority of immigrants bend over backwards to try to fit into their new home, go to great lengths to be accepted, and have a great respect and affection for it. The attitude that all (or most) immigrants ''use'' America (or any of their host countries) while ''hating'' it... is a popular misconception that just makes me a little uncomfortable.

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

LilyKat,

YES, YOU MISUNDERSTOOD ME!!!! I talked about ONE PERSON....MY PENPAL and his experience here in America...NOT EVERY IMMIGRANT WHO HAS COME HERE!

See how easy it is to find exception to what one has said and take it the wrong way? I think this happens more often than we realize.

My Penpal HATES America, but he stays here for the opportunities that she affords him. He continues to let everyone know how much he HATES America the whole time.

Lori

 

[sunseeker101]

That's very interesting Loriken, I can kind-of understand where the rejection might come from as a fairly recent immigrant to America myself (from Ireland). Culturally the two countries are poles apart and even this would make for a fairly painful social adjustment for anyone going from one to the other (probably worse from Ireland to here). Though the desire to be openly critical sounds like your penpal is lacking in manners and respect for people who are essentially his hosts. The other issue that might be present is the arch-typical Irish intensity in feeling, manifesting as the idea that you can't declare a love for America, because this is emotional treason against your mother-country. I cite this because I felt this type of resistance for a while myself and think the average Irish person would feel the same. Voicing it continuously to Americans is pretty insulting though, I'd ask if he could appreciate that Americans love their country as much as he loves his own.

Anyway, my $0.02 is that it's hard for foreigners to see behind the brash, upbeat face that America presents to the world; awe and jealousy can result, but no compassion or understanding. No-one outside of America can know anything about the good people on the ground, the overwhelmingly positive aspects of the apparently 'dumb' culture or can see the lives that average Americans lead, doing their best every day. As the saying goes, 'if you want to know someone, live with them' -- I would have been in a similar clueless boat before I came to live here.

 

[LilyKat]

Date: 12/21/2009 12:44:30 AM
Author: loriken214

Date: 12/20/2009 6:47:06 AM

Author: LilyKat

Date: 12/20/2009 12:24:20 AM

Author: loriken214

I have a penpal that came to America from Ireland in 1986. He got his college degree here and has fathered 4 children from two American women here. He HATES America, but still he''s here for the opportunities that she affords him. He refuses to become an American citizen and carries his green card.



Even though this person HATES this country, he still came here for his education and for job opportunities. It is easy to condemn America, but she''s here to use when you need her.



Lori

Loriken, not sure exactly what you''re trying to imply by this, but I''d say your friend is the exception rather than the rule. The majority of immigrants bend over backwards to try to fit into their new home, go to great lengths to be accepted, and have a great respect and affection for it. The attitude that all (or most) immigrants ''use'' America (or any of their host countries) while ''hating'' it... is a popular misconception that just makes me a little uncomfortable.


Sorry if I misunderstood you.

LilyKat,


YES, YOU MISUNDERSTOOD ME!!!! I talked about ONE PERSON....MY PENPAL and his experience here in America...NOT EVERY IMMIGRANT WHO HAS COME HERE!


See how easy it is to find exception to what one has said and take it the wrong way? I think this happens more often than we realize.


My Penpal HATES America, but he stays here for the opportunities that she affords him. He continues to let everyone know how much he HATES America the whole time.


Lori

Good. I''m very glad I DID misunderstand you. Thank you for clarifying.

For what it''s worth, it was the phrase "she''s here to use when you need her", in reference to immigrants "using" America, that rubbed me the wrong way. Many thousands of immigrants contribute to the economy and progression of their new country, and I think that should be recognised.

And I do think your penpal needs some manners.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 12/20/2009 9:07:01 PM
Author: swimmer
I was telling DH about this thread and he reminded me of two different events that we encountered in Ireland. A few years ago, we were with 60 of my students in a pub somewhere along the Ring of Kerry; the cutest little freckled Irish kid, probably 9ish? ran over to us and shrieked ''f*** George Bush!'' We were in shock, stopped eating our stew, and the American students discussed chasing after him to explain that we are from Boston and not big Bush fans either. They wondered where the hatred came from and kept tuned into the BBC and local news for the rest of the trip.

On our last trip there this past summer we were again in a pub, different students, watching a step dancing performance, one Irish dancer was wearing a ''Yes We Can'' Obama shirt, and near the end of the impromptu show the singer asked ''our American friends'' to join in the singing and dancing. Throughout our trip Irish people stopped my students several times to congratulate them on our new president and his positions on the environment, peace, etc. So perhaps some of the hatred towards Americans will now diminish?

And yes, Ksinger, (ha, I hear your DH in your response!) Probably already told you this, but I once had a US student of mine ask while we were in a Chinese school, where the special ed students were. After I got the teacher to understand what was meant, a girl with burns on her face was pointed out. For students with learning or physical disabilities in China, high school is not a possibility. They have greater opportunities for manual labor, but no chance for differing abilities in most of the developing world. The resources are too scant for these govts to pursue a ''no child left behind'' type of policy. Which of course is deeply flawed in practice, but compelling in theory.

LOL! Yeah, he''s always there in the background for me. I now know more about the reality of inner-city school systems and problems than all but teachers themselves, I think. It can be a harrowing experience to get the answer to the perennial question "How was your day dear?"

We had a huge discussion just moments ago about the state of the special ed program in his school system, engendered by our reading an article about a schizophrenic student in Texas, who was incarcerated for stabbing his special ed teacher to death, but because their system can''t handle his mental illness, the kid has been released.

The general suburban solidly middle-class/upper middle class group, for all their bitching, just has NO freakin'' clue. Like the kid who runs up and down the hall making animal sounds, or runs around masturbating in the water fountains, or the kid who has to be suspended for BO (found out his home had no running water for 2 months because it had been cut off). He estimates at minimum, 10% of his school''s kids are living outside the home - with friends as they can, in shelters, or some are working at min wage jobs to pay rent for apartments. And yet with problems like this a daily thing, the teachers are supposed to teach to a college level, for damn near free. (this is MY rant, not his BTW. He is quite matter-of-fact about this stuff. I am the one who is daily appalled.)

I desperately wish they could GET the special ed kids in their own schools, because many of them are not really special ed, they are not actually physically/developmentally handicapped, they are either mentally ill or the parents are gaming the system to get daily daycare for kids that they have pretty much abandoned as parents and now don''t want to deal with them. In any case, our schools systems here just flat out don''t have the funding for the bottomless pits of need that some of these kids are, and with budget issues looming it''s only going to get worse.


I truly wish we could put the two of you in a room with a bottle of wine and let you talk shop for several hours. It would be truly fascinating. I know he''d certainly love it.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

duplicate post

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Date: 12/19/2009 11:20:10 PM
Author: beebrisk

Date: 12/19/2009 7:16:58 PM

Author: hihowareyou

Date: 12/19/2009 2:49:14 PM


Author: beebrisk


''Americans are stupid'' ''Americans are rude'' ''Americans are loud''.




Yeah, whatever.




Fact is, ''Americans'' live in the country where much of the rest of the world wants to be. Americans live in the one country that people literally KILL themselves to get to. Americans also live in a country where many have died to secure the right to call it ''stupid, rude and loud'', without reprisal. Can Mrs. X say all this about hers?




As for the ''fanny pack carrying'' American tourists in their sneakers and baseball caps? Well, their money is as good as anyones.




The remarks make me angry too, but really just reaffirms the idea that perhaps it''s not ''Americans'' that are the ignorant ones.

From an Australian perspective, this is exactly the attitude that has us calling Americas arrogant and obnoxious. Australia may not be the huge powerhouse that America is and we have our problems (don''t try to tell me America doesn''t have some too) but there is ample opportunity here, thousands seek asylum here every year and who are you to say on their behalf that they would rather be in America?



I think America is a great country and can understand that as a citizen you can feel free to live in a bubble where the American way is the only way and you are living in the best country on earth. When you say/publish comments like the ones above however, you are implying that people who live in other countries are experiencing a lessor existence, don''t then be surprised when they get defensive and call you arrogant. Belonging to the majority gives your words an enormous amount of power to disregard other cultures and ways of living as ''wrong'', ''unimportant'', etc. You assume that everyone wants to live in America, just like the assumption that all americans are loud and stupid it is a huge generalization. The difference is that your words wield much more power.

Amazing how you can deduce from my post that I believe others live a ''lessor existence'' and that I assume everyone wants to live here. Hmmm.


While I do believe in American exceptionalism in many ways I am hardly alone. What I feel as pride, perhaps others perceive as arrogance. And no-that NEVER surprises me. Unlike the president however, I will not apologize for it.



Treading on forbidden waters in the forum, so I''ll end it there.

Just for the record, I''m an American, born and raised and when I hear statements like the ones you''ve made, it makes me want to seek political asylum elsewhere...Australia is in the top spot on my list of places to go. It''s warm, it''s beautiful, the men are hot and the accent is even hotter. Culturally it''s fascinating and historically it''s as rich as our own US history. What''s not to love?

 

[bee*]

Personally I think that every nation has their stereotypes, not just Americans. Sure there''s always going to be people who fit that stereotype in every country, which is why I think the stereotypes exist, but the majority of people don''t fit them. I''d just ignore her and her comments.....back to the booze

 

[janinegirly]

didn't read most of this thread, but I've spent a good amout of time living overseas (youth and 20's) and have heard all kinds of comments. Some of it infuriating (genearlizations and political comments) and some pretty funny and accurate. A lot you have to let slide, other times you can throw a sarcastic jab back depending on the audience (which it sounds like you did!). I've thrown alot of the sarcastic jabs back (audience was Canadian then English and French--lots of material to choose from haha).

like bee said above, every nation has stereotypes of others. And within nations too (dislike for those up north, or south or on the border). This is part of the reason why soccer matches get so heated! Americans tend to be easy targets since it's easier to go for those on top , and American behavior overseas does tend to appear, loud, brash and obnoxious..

however i did read that the French recently replaced the American as the most "hated" tourist..

 

[HollyS]

And here I always thought, ''cause people say it often enough, even here on PS, that it is Americans who are thoughtless, classless, racist, and always ready with a snark about non-Americans.

Guess it happens in every culture, in every country. Somebody somewhere is going to be a twit about ''foreigners''. Who''d a thunk it?

 

[loriken214]

Date: 12/21/2009 2:24:01 AM
Author: sunseeker101
That''s very interesting Loriken, I can kind-of understand where the rejection might come from as a fairly recent immigrant to America myself (from Ireland). Culturally the two countries are poles apart and even this would make for a fairly painful social adjustment for anyone going from one to the other (probably worse from Ireland to here). Though the desire to be openly critical sounds like your penpal is lacking in manners and respect for people who are essentially his hosts. The other issue that might be present is the arch-typical Irish intensity in feeling, manifesting as the idea that you can''t declare a love for America, because this is emotional treason against your mother-country. I cite this because I felt this type of resistance for a while myself and think the average Irish person would feel the same. Voicing it continuously to Americans is pretty insulting though, I''d ask if he could appreciate that Americans love their country as much as he loves his own.

Anyway, my $0.02 is that it''s hard for foreigners to see behind the brash, upbeat face that America presents to the world; awe and jealousy can result, but no compassion or understanding. No-one outside of America can know anything about the good people on the ground, the overwhelmingly positive aspects of the apparently ''dumb'' culture or can see the lives that average Americans lead, doing their best every day. As the saying goes, ''if you want to know someone, live with them'' -- I would have been in a similar clueless boat before I came to live here.

I went to visit my Penpal Christmas of 1985 and found the whole experience one of the best times of my life. I spent two weeks with a family bed and breakfast in Balbriggan, Co. Dublin. Everyone I met was excited that I was from America, but more so that I was from Texas. We had fun exchanging details about our lives. They thought I was crazy asking for ice in my drinks during the dead of winter....iced tea was out of the question. There was never a hint of anti-Americanism from anyone at any time.

My Penpal was really excited to come to America, at first, but later became jaded and bitter for some reason. We are still friends and have our debates about why he feels this way. I never let him get the best of me and try to remind him why he is still here and that he has 4 American children.

Lori

 

[loriken214]

Date: 12/21/2009 3:36:11 AM
Author: LilyKat

Date: 12/21/2009 12:44:30 AM
Author: loriken214

Date: 12/20/2009 6:47:06 AM

Author: LilyKat

Date: 12/20/2009 12:24:20 AM

Author: loriken214

I have a penpal that came to America from Ireland in 1986. He got his college degree here and has fathered 4 children from two American women here. He HATES America, but still he''s here for the opportunities that she affords him. He refuses to become an American citizen and carries his green card.



Even though this person HATES this country, he still came here for his education and for job opportunities. It is easy to condemn America, but she''s here to use when you need her.



Lori

Loriken, not sure exactly what you''re trying to imply by this, but I''d say your friend is the exception rather than the rule. The majority of immigrants bend over backwards to try to fit into their new home, go to great lengths to be accepted, and have a great respect and affection for it. The attitude that all (or most) immigrants ''use'' America (or any of their host countries) while ''hating'' it... is a popular misconception that just makes me a little uncomfortable.


Sorry if I misunderstood you.

LilyKat,


YES, YOU MISUNDERSTOOD ME!!!! I talked about ONE PERSON....MY PENPAL and his experience here in America...NOT EVERY IMMIGRANT WHO HAS COME HERE!


See how easy it is to find exception to what one has said and take it the wrong way? I think this happens more often than we realize.


My Penpal HATES America, but he stays here for the opportunities that she affords him. He continues to let everyone know how much he HATES America the whole time.


Lori

Good. I''m very glad I DID misunderstand you. Thank you for clarifying.

For what it''s worth, it was the phrase ''she''s here to use when you need her'', in reference to immigrants ''using'' America, that rubbed me the wrong way. Many thousands of immigrants contribute to the economy and progression of their new country, and I think that should be recognised.

And I do think your penpal needs some manners.

LilyKat,

My family is originally from Scotland, both sides, and they came to America for a better life. Times in Scotland were very hard way back when. We have them traced back to when they came over in the ships and one Grandmother didn''t want to come to America so she refused to speak English, in protest. This was long before Ellis Island was even thought of.

Most Americans come from immigrants in one way or another. I, in no way, said anything negative about immigrants and their contribution to America. Once again, my comments were in reference to my PENPAL AND HIM ONLY.

Lori