I''m one angry hornet. Am I wrong?

[waterlilly]

what are the laws for getting the car inspected in your state? wouldn''t he legally have to have it inspected within 5 or so days? is it still registered in your name?

argh, so ridiculous.

did your boyfriend write up the 20 day thing while you were standing there??

do you have a copy of this agreement?

 

[stepcutgirl]

Date: 2/8/2010 9:34:22 PM
Author: waterlilly
what are the laws for getting the car inspected in your state? wouldn''t he legally have to have it inspected within 5 or so days? is it still registered in your name?


argh, so ridiculous.


did your boyfriend write up the 20 day thing while you were standing there??


do you have a copy of this agreement?

The car title has been signed over. Even if there are state laws for inspection the contract stating 20 would over ride it. The guy had a regular sales form in his car. I guess he just wrote in there that there is a 20 day period to get the car inspected. I was standing about 10 feet away. It was late when we did it so nowhere around us was open but he said he would fax a copy to my bf''s office in the am.

 

[havernell]

Where exactly is this 20-day trial agreement written? Did someone (the buyer or your boyfriend) hand write it on a piece of paper and then both sign in? Do any lawyers around here know the legality of hand written things like this (especially things that are so clearly skewed to the advantage one party)? I'm just wondering if you'd have to honor it...

Since title to the car is now in the buyer name, I think in order for you to give him his money back, you'd technically have to buy the car back from him (including paying to transfer the title, pay sales tax on the car at the DMV, etc...) I suppose you could just not answer your phone in 20 days if he calls wanting to sell it back to you. Then he'd have to take you to court to enforce the contract, which would probably cost more in legal fees than the car is even worth (unless it's a small enough amount to fall under small claims court). I just wonder if he'd even do that.

Sorry, I'm mostly just thinking out loud here, but I guess I'm saying if I were you I'd question the ability of the buyer to actually enforce this contract. You might want to speak to any lawyer friends you have about this- I certainly don't know anything about legal contracts!!

Sorry this is happening to you!!

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 2/8/2010 8:46:58 PM
Author: stepcutgirl
My boyfriend heard it from me on the ride home. He''s still currently hearing it. I was only 10 feet away watching my boyfriends son while this was all happening! The guy who bought it told my boyfriend that he and I had agreed to this. What I agreed to was to sign something saying to the best of my knowledge there was nothing wrong with the car.

When I told the buyer that I was not comfortable with this that was when he told me that it was risk for him to because he was going to title and insure it and it was going to cost him money and made me feel like this was a perfectly normal thing and that by me not being comfortable with it I must have something to hide.

When I got home I thought it was just me. That I was just being paranoid so I posted this knowing that PSers tend to speak their mind when they think you are wrong. Since you all made me feel like it was ok that I don''t feel comfortable with this I went and told my bf that I want this undone. I will give him back all his money and I want my car back...tonight. He agreed and called. The buyer did not answer but he left a message asking him to call us back and explaining that I want my car back.

He said if he does not call back tonight or in the morning that he will call again tomorrow. The guy has the right to say no though.

I''m sorry to be blunt here, but your story is not adding up.

Your initial post made it sound like your BF and this guy signed this and you didn''t know anything about it until you got home.

In the above post, it''s pretty clear that your BF and the guy had their convo, signed the papers, and before he walked away you knew about the deal and discussed it with the guy, including telling him you weren''t too keen on the idea but you didn''t refuse the deal, nor demand the paperwork back. You took the money, gave him the keys and berated your BF on the way home.

Basically you have seller''s remorse AFTER THE FACT. You had every opportunity to say no, hellz no. You did not.

 

[lulu]

I''d be furious. I''d really like to see the exact language before proffering a legal opinion, but it may very well be binding. I''d cash the check.

 

[stepcutgirl]

PP-I could not undo the deal. The contract was signed. I understand why you may feel that I have buyers remorse, but that is not the case. When I spoke to him was on the phone on the ride home, the deal was done. I had no opportunity to say hell no.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 2/8/2010 10:00:06 PM
Author: purrfectpear

Date: 2/8/2010 8:46:58 PM
Author: stepcutgirl
My boyfriend heard it from me on the ride home. He''s still currently hearing it. I was only 10 feet away watching my boyfriends son while this was all happening! The guy who bought it told my boyfriend that he and I had agreed to this. What I agreed to was to sign something saying to the best of my knowledge there was nothing wrong with the car.

When I told the buyer that I was not comfortable with this that was when he told me that it was risk for him to because he was going to title and insure it and it was going to cost him money and made me feel like this was a perfectly normal thing and that by me not being comfortable with it I must have something to hide.

When I got home I thought it was just me. That I was just being paranoid so I posted this knowing that PSers tend to speak their mind when they think you are wrong. Since you all made me feel like it was ok that I don''t feel comfortable with this I went and told my bf that I want this undone. I will give him back all his money and I want my car back...tonight. He agreed and called. The buyer did not answer but he left a message asking him to call us back and explaining that I want my car back.

He said if he does not call back tonight or in the morning that he will call again tomorrow. The guy has the right to say no though.

I''m sorry to be blunt here, but your story is not adding up.

Your initial post made it sound like your BF and this guy signed this and you didn''t know anything about it until you got home.

In the above post, it''s pretty clear that your BF and the guy had their convo, signed the papers, and before he walked away you knew about the deal and discussed it with the guy, including telling him you weren''t too keen on the idea but you didn''t refuse the deal, nor demand the paperwork back. You took the money, gave him the keys and berated your BF on the way home.

Basically you have seller''s remorse AFTER THE FACT. You had every opportunity to say no, hellz no. You did not.

PP even for you that''s a tad harsh???

Stepcutgirl, I have no advice.. But do hope all works out in the long run. As I said before live and learn...

GAH I need to step away....

 

[upgrade]

Date: 2/8/2010 9:42:09 PM
Author: stepcutgirl

Date: 2/8/2010 9:34:22 PM
Author: waterlilly
what are the laws for getting the car inspected in your state? wouldn''t he legally have to have it inspected within 5 or so days? is it still registered in your name?


argh, so ridiculous.


did your boyfriend write up the 20 day thing while you were standing there??


do you have a copy of this agreement?

The car title has been signed over. Even if there are state laws for inspection the contract stating 20 would over ride it. The guy had a regular sales form in his car. I guess he just wrote in there that there is a 20 day period to get the car inspected. I was standing about 10 feet away. It was late when we did it so nowhere around us was open but he said he would fax a copy to my bf''s office in the am.

Do you have a copy of the sales agreement or does he now have the only copy?

 

[stepcutgirl]

He currently has the only copy. He is supposed to fax a copy tomorrow.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/8/2010 8:29:54 PM
Author: MC
Who's insurance will be covering the car during the 20-days? Make sure the guy adds it to his policy.

the owner...if the guy gets into an accident her bf will be in big trouble.

 

[Cehrabehra]

get the car back from the guy and sell it again to someone else - that''s lame.

But... technically the car is in your boyfriend''s name so technically he gets to chomp whatever idiotsalad comes his way.

 

[Cehrabehra]

I meant to say the guy you sold it to LIED already in the sale, why wouldn''t he lie again?

 

[Imdanny]

Who doesn''t sell a used car "as is". I never heard of that before.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Date: 2/8/2010 9:55:41 PM
Author: havernell
Where exactly is this 20-day trial agreement written? Did someone (the buyer or your boyfriend) hand write it on a piece of paper and then both sign in? Do any lawyers around here know the legality of hand written things like this (especially things that are so clearly skewed to the advantage one party)? I''m just wondering if you''d have to honor it...

Since title to the car is now in the buyer name, I think in order for you to give him his money back, you''d technically have to buy the car back from him (including paying to transfer the title, pay sales tax on the car at the DMV, etc...) I suppose you could just not answer your phone in 20 days if he calls wanting to sell it back to you. Then he''d have to take you to court to enforce the contract, which would probably cost more in legal fees than the car is even worth (unless it''s a small enough amount to fall under small claims court). I just wonder if he''d even do that.

Sorry, I''m mostly just thinking out loud here, but I guess I''m saying if I were you I''d question the ability of the buyer to actually enforce this contract. You might want to speak to any lawyer friends you have about this- I certainly don''t know anything about legal contracts!!

Sorry this is happening to you!!

I would do this!! If he doesn''t answer his phone now... don''t answer your phone in 20 days time!!

Seriously, if LEGALLY the car is already his, in his name, money has been exchanged and there is some dodgy agreement written in pen on the contract, do you really think he would bother taking you to court to return the car when there is a chance he would loose due to his underhanded tactics?

 

[Girlrocks]

Date: 2/8/2010 9:02:39 PM
Author: stepcutgirl

Date: 2/8/2010 8:29:54 PM
Author: MC
Who''s insurance will be covering the car during the 20-days? Make sure the guy adds it to his policy.

His is. He asked us to leave it under ours and we said no.

This whole deal has something fishy written all over it. All of these weird ideas were the buyer''s in the first place. Sounds like he is a seasoned professional with something up his sleeve. I hope you get this figured out soon.

 

[Girlrocks]

Date: 2/8/2010 11:00:27 PM
Author: stepcutgirl
He currently has the only copy. He is supposed to fax a copy tomorrow.

Oh my lordy...I hope that you learn a big lesson through this whole ordeal.

 

[steph72276]

Oh dear...this is why I wouldn''t sell a car myself, too many people out looking for scams. Sounds really fishy, but I hope everything works out.

 

[lilyfoot]

stepcutgirl, I know you said you were paid in cash. Are you sure the dollar bills are real?

Have you been able to get a hold of the buyer yet?

 

[waterlilly]

Date: 2/8/2010 9:42:09 PM
Author: stepcutgirl

Date: 2/8/2010 9:34:22 PM

Author: waterlilly

what are the laws for getting the car inspected in your state? wouldn''t he legally have to have it inspected within 5 or so days? is it still registered in your name?



argh, so ridiculous.



did your boyfriend write up the 20 day thing while you were standing there??



do you have a copy of this agreement?

The car title has been signed over. Even if there are state laws for inspection the contract stating 20 would over ride it. The guy had a regular sales form in his car. I guess he just wrote in there that there is a 20 day period to get the car inspected. I was standing about 10 feet away. It was late when we did it so nowhere around us was open but he said he would fax a copy to my bf''s office in the am.

My point is - if it PASSES inspection in the next few days - is that NOT proof that the car is in working order??

So he had already printed out a contract that stated the 20 day thing?

Why would your BF sign a contract the buyer had written up? The seller is the one that should have provided the contract! This has to be your first experience ever selling a car, I imagine. You''ll for sure do it better the next time!

 

[tlh]

Date: 2/9/2010 6:55:06 AM
Author: hawaiianorangetree

I would do this!! If he doesn''t answer his phone now... don''t answer your phone in 20 days time!!

Seriously, if LEGALLY the car is already his, in his name, money has been exchanged and there is some dodgy agreement written in pen on the contract, do you really think he would bother taking you to court to return the car when there is a chance he would loose due to his underhanded tactics?

That is true. Make sure the check cashes. Call your insurance company, let them know you sold the car. Where are the plates to the vehicle? I don''t know state law in your area, but I''d notify the state of FL that you sold your car, etc... hopefully you kept the plates... but seeing how shady this went... he has the plates, which means the vehicle is legally registered in your name. He has the only copy of the bill of sale proving that you sold the car. If he wrecks the car - you have the burden of proof to show you sold it. I would do a little more due diligence in proving you sold the car, by notifying the state - sometimes the vehicles registration has a piece on the back you fill out an mail in to the state - where you can advise what happened to the plates.

I''m sorry - this guy with his contract and everything sounds shady, ESP wanting you to carry all the risk if he gets into an accident.. ON YOUR POLICY! WOAH. I''m sorry!

 

[CasaBlanca]

This guy lost all rights to an honorable ending to this dishonest sneaky maneuver.

First, just know we are all at the ready to tar and feather you and your NICE polite Boyfriend. And we have the right...but we also have your backs as you are our PEEPS. I will refrain on the tar lever as long as you promise to put on your army gear...as this means war. No more NICE guys...OK?

This guy is indeed a professional. He sized you up as stern, and then saw the opportunity seize your boyfriend as a target. Business transactions are that...you aren''t in it to make friends. I think your BF got sidetracked by this smooth operator and his polished practiced operation.

First call your district attorneys office. (again this is because I feel he is running a business...the forms you mention stocked in his car...etc.) There just may be task force that has been trying to get this guy. If nothing else, the call may lead to another suggestive helpful direction.

Second, call your states used car motor division. You need the licensed dealers association. This sneaky louse''s business practices have surely gotten his license revoked. If that is the case he can''t even sit in a car that is for sale. If they are familiar with his name or mo they just may be willing to be your escort on day 20, 16 or 18 when ever he does return your car. He can''t resell the car back to you...he is not allowed. But he does have to keep what he contracted to buy. They are YOUR advocate...you the consumer. Don''t give up until you are satisfied you reached the proper advocate there in that division. Ask and re-ask questions and elevate to supervisors...

Third, this is where the hard ball gets thrown...and I need you to understand the war part I mentioned was because he no longer has the right to exchange integrity...he breached the honorable mark when he choose to do that sneaky dishonest move...you with me? OK, call your courthouse...there are judgments on file. Judgments are the results of others suing and not able to collect because the process server hasn''t been able to serve the papers. This creepy crawler is practicing business from his car...so there just may be other victims like you attempted to locate him...he is mobile and more than likely a curbstoner. (sells the car from the corner and not a lot).

Each state has a limit of used car transactions private parties can participate in. This law forces those who do this continually, pay their share into the commission and follow the states guidelines. This guy is skipping excise tax, and title transfer fees in his practice. It is illegal to do that...

You are all tied up with what you have to do to be honorable in respecting your agreement...you have to focus on the way this guy accomplished his little feat. Dishonest and sneaky...and it has left you and your finances venerable. No more nice guys...no more little girl pants...or in this case, spiderman underoos on your BF. Pull up your fatigues...

Army gear! From head to toe!

 

[CasaBlanca]

Oops...one more call... to the police (not just to yours, but to the county he told you he was heading...200 miles from you). They may also be familiar with his practice. Again...don't stop at the first person you get...continue asking questions until you know for sure you have the right department.

Now MARCH!

PS. All of this work my be in vain, you may not need any assistance. Let me explain:

I think he is using you as a finance company. He is limited on finances himself. He uses this money to buy inventory and then buys himself 20 days to sell the car. If he is successful you will never hear from him...but if he can't flip it he comes back to the nice guys and they let him have his money back. It is actually brilliant if he can get the seller to agree to it...and well, your Spidey Underoo wearing bf did.

With the other posters reminding you...you are still hanging out there...legally, financially, CRIMINALLY...what ever this guy does...you have no proof you made a transaction.

 

[stepcutgirl]

I don''t have time to reply to all of you right now. I''m headed out the door. But thank you. My bf''s dad is an attorney and he said he does not think the guy can return the car, despite the agreement. I am going to get the whole scoop but if he thinks the car is sold and thats that, then I am going to go deposit the money in my account and not look back. Bf also called this guy again this morning and we have recieved no call back. I feel more confident that we are indeed being taken for a ride.

 

[purselover]

Date: 2/9/2010 9:44:26 AM
Author: CasaBlanca
Oops...one more call... to the police (not just to yours, but to the county he told you he was heading...200 miles from you). They may also be familiar with his practice. Again...don''t stop at the first person you get...continue asking questions until you know for sure you have the right department.

Now MARCH!

PS. All of this work my be in vain, you may not need any assistance. Let me explain:

I think he is using you as a finance company. He is limited on finances himself. He uses this money to buy inventory and then buys himself 20 days to sell the car. If he is successful you will never hear from him...but if he can''t flip it he comes back to the nice guys and they let him have his money back. It is actually brilliant if he can get the seller to agree to it...and well, your Spidey Underoo wearing bf did.

With the other posters reminding you...you are still hanging out there...legally, financially, CRIMINALLY...what ever this guy does...you have no proof you made a transaction.

Everything she said! This guy sounds so shady and very well could be a professional, I hope everything works out for you and your bf.

 

[whitby_2773]

Date: 2/9/2010 10:20:22 AM
Author: stepcutgirl
I don''t have time to reply to all of you right now. I''m headed out the door. But thank you. My bf''s dad is an attorney and he said he does not think the guy can return the car, despite the agreement. I am going to get the whole scoop but if he thinks the car is sold and thats that, then I am going to go deposit the money in my account and not look back. Bf also called this guy again this morning and we have recieved no call back. I feel more confident that we are indeed being taken for a ride.

stepcut....

i''m sorry if you''ve already said this, but if you havent....

how much are we talking about here? did you sell a brand new ferrari or a 15 yr old entry level hyundai? are we talking $300 or $30,000? also - do you and your boyfriend have another car, or is your household now without transport?

i just wondered how big the problem was, tho i remember the first car my husband and i owned; it cost us $1500, and it took every penny we had to buy it! so all things are relative...

i hope your BF''s father was able to shed some light for you. good luck!

 

[kama_s]

Date: 2/9/2010 9:16:15 AM
Author: waterlilly


Why would your BF sign a contract the buyer had written up? The seller is the one that should have provided the contract! This has to be your first experience ever selling a car, I imagine. You''ll for sure do it better the next time!

Excellent point, waterlilly. Stepcut, did the buyer write up the contract? Or did you write it and then add in that extra 20 day clause with a pen?

When you make ANY sale or lease, the person selling or leasing is the one who writes the contract and establishes the ground rules.

 

[katamari]

While I fully and completely agree that you should be furious with your BF (

!), I am less suspicious of the buyer than a lot of other PSers.

You mention that this was a 10+ year old car with over 200K miles on it if I remember correctly. That is a huge risk for someone who is incredibly low income to make (and I am assuming here, but that is the demographic for someone in that market). For me, the fact that he is taking it miles away for an inspection only upholds my suspicion here. My guess is that he personally knows someone willing to do the inspection for free or at a very low cost in the other city.

Should you call the insurance company and the license bureau and explain? Yes. Absolutely. But, should you worry so much that this guy is trying to pull a fast one on you? No. First, I am seriously doubting he could afford to retain a lawyer anyways. And, the selling price on the car has to be low enough that it won''t be worth the hassle, particularly because the "contract" is so unorthodox, against the laws of the state, and not notarized or professionally drafted.

I see the worst case scenario here that he wants to return the car to get his money back. Then, you are just where you started. Probably even in a better relationship because you will so sternly emphasize the importance of making joint financial decisions with your BF that you will be more prepared for the next sale.

That said, if the sale does fall through, you''d better bet I would also demand the cash from my BF without a hint of remorse.

 

[enbcfsobe]

i feel really bad that this happened -- it does sound like this guy was taking advantage of your bf.

that said, i wouldn''t call in the big guns given that by having your bf as the titleholder and insured even though you are in fact the primary driver of the car might be considered insurance fraud. see what happens and deal with it as it comes.

 

[wyndham]

Date: 2/9/2010 12:17:06 PM
Author: enbcfsobe
i feel really bad that this happened -- it does sound like this guy was taking advantage of your bf.

that said, i wouldn''t call in the big guns given that by having your bf as the titleholder and insured even though you are in fact the primary driver of the car might be considered insurance fraud. see what happens and deal with it as it comes.

Ditto this -- I was surprised that enbcfsobe was the first one to point out that what you''ve done is actually committed insurance fraud! You and your boyfriend could get in trouble if your arrangement ever came to light. Once you get the whole car sale debacle figured out, I would either get car insurance that covers you, too, or look into public transportation. It sounds like you haven''t had the best driving history, so I would make sure that you are fully covered from now on in case you have any other accidents or transgressions. If you can''t afford the insurance because your premium is THAT much in a car with 200k miles on it, then you even more desperately need to find some way to cover yourself, because it sounds like you might need the insurance if you plan to drive in the future.

I am not trying to be harsh, but it seems like you want to pin the whole car sale snafu on your boyfriend, and I just want to point out that he''s not really to blame here. This is YOUR car, but because you don''t / can''t get insurance, he''s done you the favor of allowing the car title and insurance to be in his name so that you can drive...a HUGE favor, in my opinion. I''m not saying that agreeing to a twenty day trial period was intelligent on his part; however, maybe this is a lesson that you should figure out a way to own your own things outright in the future...or do without if you can''t afford them.

For what it''s worth, I don''t think you have anything to worry about here: you have the money, the man you sold to has the car and the title. I don''t think you''re obligated to take the car back, whether it''s within the twenty days or not...and I think you''d be hard pressed to find a court that would make you take back a car after someone else has possessed it for 20 days. Your boyfriend should call his insurance company immediately to let them know of the sale (if he hasn''t done so already), and you should also contact your state''s DMV to inform them that someone else has your plates.

I hope this situation is resolved quickly -- good luck.

 

[upgrade]

What a crappy, mixed up situation. I don't really think you have any legal avenues to pursue at this point. As long as the cash given to you was not counterfeit (I'd be making a trip to the bank asap to verify that) then it doesn't sound like the purchaser has done anything illegal. The whole situation sounds shady and strange, but if your bf agreed to his 20 day clause and signed the contract then there's nothing you can do about that at this point. I would advise you to verify that the funds are legit, deposit them and hope for the best. Take the lessons you can from this and move on, knowing that you'll be much better armed the next time you're selling a car. It is possible that the purchaser was really just trying to give himself an out, just in case, and wants to keep the car.

FWIW my bil got scammed when selling a car a couple years ago. He did everything 'right' including getting the purchaser's driver's licence # (but didn't see it himself), kept his copies of the transfer forms, got a certified cheque, etc... He got a call a few weeks later from the bank saying that the certified cheque was a forgery so he was out $20 000. He filed a police report and through some detective work on his own, discovered that the purchaser had never registered the vehicle and that the name on the certified cheque and the transfer form, and the DL# given to him were for a different person. Long story short, he was able to have the police recover the vehicle, after doing his best Magnum PI work to find it on his own. He got the car back, but it was damaged and paperwork was all missing so the experience still cost him a few thousand dollars to repair it before he could sell it (for real, this time). We all learned a few things from this:

Keep copies of ALL paperwork.
Get photo ID from the purchaser (and check it yourself)- we now photocopy their DL.
Accept payment at the bank and have the bank verify that the cash/certified cheque is legit right then and there, before keys are handed over.

It's a lot of hoop jumping to go through but we simply explain that a relative has fallen victim to a scam before and we feel better handling the transaction in this way to avoid going through the same. Anyone who is legitimate has been more than willing to meet our terms.

I really hope all this works out for you. I know you must be a nervous wreck waiting to see how it's all going to play out. Just try to keep in mind that it *could* all be okay and even if it's not, there are worse things in life than this you're going to learn some really important lessons from this. Good luck to you.


Sidenote: I don't know how the insurance system works in the US, but where I live, if a vehicle is registered to someone else to avoid paying high premiums and the insurer discovers that the insured is not the principle operator, your insurance can be null and void. Something to look into...