Home If you have a problem with childhood vaccinations,

[soocool]

would you also not immunize your cat or dog?

I think if anyone feels so strongly about not immunizing your children, they should feel the same way about immunizing their pets. Yet I have met one such person who speaks out against childhood immunizations (yes she has an autistic child), but her 3 dogs all get their shots, including the vaccine against Lyme disease and kennel cough, in addition to the regular ones.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/11/2009 5:20:13 PM
Author:soocool
would you also not immunize your cat or dog?

I think if anyone feels so strongly about not immunizing your children, they should feel the same way about immunizing their pets. Yet I have met one such person who speaks out against childhood immunizations (yes she has an autistic child), but her 3 dogs all get their shots, including the vaccine against Lyme disease and kennel cough, in addition to the regular ones.

Are there autistic pets (I don''t have one, so I don''t know) and if so, are they special needs that are an extra burden?

Because as much as I do believe in vacs, I don''t think this is exactly apples to apples.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

My cats both have had the MMR and chicken pox vaccinations. I fear the autism issue, so instead my sons were both given rabies & Feline Viral Rhinotracheitis vaccinations. As TG stated, there are not autistic pets, so it makes sense that it's probably the animal vaccinations that are safer and those would be better for my children.

 

[BlueKeet]

The last couple of years my dog has gotten a titer test (or two?) along with her other bloodwork to see if she does indeed need shots again. It is probably the vet's way of charging more, but I was told it isn't a good idea to give dogs vaccinations if they don't need them again (it made sense so I went with it). I feel the same about the dog and human vaccinations for what it is worth. Vaccinations do not come without risks and the same can be said for not vaccinating - I'm not going to skip them, but they make me very nervous (the unknown more than the possible connection to autism).

 

[soocool]

Date: 6/11/2009 5:37:40 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 6/11/2009 5:20:13 PM
Author:soocool
would you also not immunize your cat or dog?

I think if anyone feels so strongly about not immunizing your children, they should feel the same way about immunizing their pets. Yet I have met one such person who speaks out against childhood immunizations (yes she has an autistic child), but her 3 dogs all get their shots, including the vaccine against Lyme disease and kennel cough, in addition to the regular ones.

Are there autistic pets (I don''t have one, so I don''t know) and if so, are they special needs that are an extra burden?

Because as much as I do believe in vacs, I don''t think this is exactly apples to apples.

I asked because I want to know if people don''t get their pets vaccinated, the reasons why they don''t. There is a vaccine against feline leukemia yet I know of someone who didn''t get her pets vaccinated and so her cats contracted leukemia and perished. I guess you have to have a pet in order to understand where I am coming from.

There is this fear if I get my child vacinated then let''s say autism is a possibility. I have a very outspoken neighbor on this subject and she preaches this to anyone who will listen. Yet when asked why she would get her dogs vaccinated she said the same thing you did, that it isn''t exactly apples to apples.

Yet anyone who truly loves their pet will go to any lengths to protect it and keep it healthy. I have stayed up nights when my dog was sick and cradled him in my arms, gave him his medications, cooked especially for him, until he got better. I know that certain vaccines will keep him safe from certain diseases, yet I know that there may be a possibility that the vaccine could harm him as well. Yet I take that risk. I guess you have to have a pet to understand where I am coming from.

 

[TravelingGal]

I had a pet. I must be a monster, because it really wasn''t apples to apples for me. Dogs are just that to me, a pet. And cats, I can''t deal with them.

Amelia will only have fish. I''ll vaccinate them if I have to, I suppose.

 

[soocool]

whatever.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/11/2009 7:07:16 PM
Author: soocool
whatever.

I''m not downplaying, btw. But your argument about how people *should* feel doesn''t fly, IMHO. Some people do not see their pets the same as their children. Crazy to imagine, but true.

 

[JSM]

Most people treat their animals quite differently than their human family. It isn't right or wrong, it just IS.

We put down our pets without a second thought if they are dying painfully. This is called assisted suicide with humans, and it's illegal where I live!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/11/2009 7:12:06 PM
Author: jsm
Most people treat their animals quite differently than their human family. It isn''t right or wrong, it just IS.

We put down our pets without a second thought if they are dying painfully. This is called assisted suicide with humans, and it''s illegal where I live!

Good point.

If something happens to my dog as a result of a vac, I can put him down if his quality of life is deteriorating. If it''s my child, I''m responsible for the well being of that child for the rest of my life, and will spend a lot of that life wondering and worrying how she will manage when I''m gone. I know I''d probably outlive a dog, but most likely will not outlive my child.

Comparing the two is just strange to me.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 6/11/2009 6:57:45 PM
Author: soocool
. I guess you have to have a pet to understand where I am coming from.

I have both pets and kids. I do not understand why the topic of vaccinations has been brought up again in another thread. It's just an excuse to continue to use this forum as a venue for judging people who chose not to vaccinate.

 

[soocool]

I just love animals! I have had cats, dogs, hamsters, fish, chickens, etc. My dog is a part of my family and not just a dog. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but from what I have read here on PS, I know there are a lot of people who do care and their pets mean a great deal to them.

 

[soocool]

Date: 6/11/2009 7:21:21 PM
Author: MC

Date: 6/11/2009 6:57:45 PM
Author: soocool
. I guess you have to have a pet to understand where I am coming from.

I have both pets and kids. I do not understand why the topic of vaccinations has been brought up again in another thread. It''s just an excuse to continue to use this forum as a venue for judging people who chose not to vaccinate.

Let''s consider this a closed subject and stay friends.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/11/2009 7:24:26 PM
Author: soocool
I just love animals! I have had cats, dogs, hamsters, fish, chickens, etc. My dog is a part of my family and not just a dog. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but from what I have read here on PS, I know there are a lot of people who do care and their pets mean a great deal to them.

I''ve had a cat (which is how I found out I was allergic) and 4 dogs (2 which were guard dogs at my parents'' store), fish and several hamsters. Admittedly, these were childrenhood pets, so I really didn''t have a sense of responsibility over them.

Pets mean a great deal, but do not compare to children for most people I know. I remember when a gal here who had a dog made mention of possibly putting the dog outside because it was affecting the children (or something like that). A few dog lovers were up in arms about that. But to her, the dog got relegated down the totem pole. My friend''s child showed allergic reactions to a loved pet. It was a tough decision but the pet was given away to another loving home. I have another one who gave her dog away after he got upset that he wasn''t getting attention and started digging massive holes in the yard. She wanted to give him attention, but just wasn''t able. She didn''t foresee how exhausting it would be to have a baby. Again, the dog was given a suitable home.

The love for a pet may be great, but when the kiddies come along, it seems it''s a whole different ballgame with an entire different level of social and emotional responsibility. A pet may be part of the family, but I can''t imagine it is the same (again, apples and apples) to a child.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 6/11/2009 5:43:30 PM
Author: MC
My cats both have had the MMR and chicken pox vaccinations. I fear the autism issue, so instead my sons were both given rabies & Feline Viral Rhinotracheitis vaccinations. As TG stated, there are not autistic pets, so it makes sense that it''s probably the animal vaccinations that are safer and those would be better for my children.

Wait-you gave your kids the pet vacs?

 

[icekid]

Date: 6/11/2009 8:33:17 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 6/11/2009 5:43:30 PM

Author: MC

My cats both have had the MMR and chicken pox vaccinations. I fear the autism issue, so instead my sons were both given rabies & Feline Viral Rhinotracheitis vaccinations. As TG stated, there are not autistic pets, so it makes sense that it''s probably the animal vaccinations that are safer and those would be better for my children.

Wait-you gave your kids the pet vacs?

I assume she was joking?

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/11/2009 9:47:01 PM
Author: icekid

Date: 6/11/2009 8:33:17 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 6/11/2009 5:43:30 PM

Author: MC

My cats both have had the MMR and chicken pox vaccinations. I fear the autism issue, so instead my sons were both given rabies & Feline Viral Rhinotracheitis vaccinations. As TG stated, there are not autistic pets, so it makes sense that it''s probably the animal vaccinations that are safer and those would be better for my children.

Wait-you gave your kids the pet vacs?

I assume she was joking?

NF, go get some more sleep girlfriend, MC was joking.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 6/11/2009 8:33:17 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 6/11/2009 5:43:30 PM
Author: MC
My cats both have had the MMR and chicken pox vaccinations. I fear the autism issue, so instead my sons were both given rabies & Feline Viral Rhinotracheitis vaccinations. As TG stated, there are not autistic pets, so it makes sense that it''s probably the animal vaccinations that are safer and those would be better for my children.

Wait-you gave your kids the pet vacs?

haha...I did a double-take on that one, too!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 6/11/2009 10:00:31 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 6/11/2009 8:33:17 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 6/11/2009 5:43:30 PM
Author: MC
My cats both have had the MMR and chicken pox vaccinations. I fear the autism issue, so instead my sons were both given rabies & Feline Viral Rhinotracheitis vaccinations. As TG stated, there are not autistic pets, so it makes sense that it's probably the animal vaccinations that are safer and those would be better for my children.

Wait-you gave your kids the pet vacs?

haha...I did a double-take on that one, too!

Yep, C.V.F.K. (cat vacs for kids) is all the new rage!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

One more thing. I DO spread out my dogs'' immunizations (other than rabies which is already on a 3 year schedule). I have read that there is no proof that yearly immunizations are necessary because the protection may last years. People certainly do not get a full set of vaccinations yearly their whole lives! So I do not really want to subject my pets to that either. I don''t trust those in the pharmaceutical industry who profit from these recommendations. Listen to any drug ad on TV...the warnings of side effects are longer than the part promoting the postive effects of the drug!!!!

 

[swimmer]

How could I tell if my labradoodle is autistic? I''m serious here. Sort of like when my cat developed diabetes and the vet asked me to look for lethargy. Um, prior to being diabetic the cat slept 23.5 hours a day. What exactly would lethargy look like? Labradoodles seem to be notable for their happiness and total lack of reasoning skills. I would say she is on the spectrum of special needs for sure. The trainers at Petco said there was no hope, she did not want to learn to sit. Thank you for this thread, I can now blame the vaccinations and not my total lack of consistency with the treats and not caring that she shakes with her left.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

My cats are 3 years old now, and I got all of their immunizations when they were a kitten, but did not immunize them last year as they are indoor only (and I was just busy). 2 weeks ago, I decided to take them with me on vacation, so I took them to the vet to be immunized as they were going to be crossing state lines, and I wanted them to be protected if for some reason they escaped.

Well, they acted as if they had never seen the disease. They both felt like crap. I took them in the next day to get sedation meds, and I told the vet they were not feeling good. He stared to go into this speech about how we gave the cat proteins that their immune system is reacting to....I just nodded until the nurse cut him off and told him what I did for a living. He said, well you know, it is the same.

Well, one of my cats had a fever to 105 (I think 102 is the cut off for normal in a cats) and that impressed the vet - needless to say, I could not give her the sedation meds. She had no other red flag signs, so he told me what those were and sent me on my way. Within 36 hours she was back to her old self.

Although I know animals and kids are not the same, it gave me an idea of why parents might be concerned, but I will still immunize my cats next year. I would rather they mount an immune response (and act sick) to an inactive protein than get the deadly disease.

BTW, the immunization schedule for humans is headed by government organizations (e.g CDC) with input from several different groups. Not all created immunizations are automatically approved to routine administration in the US, and the patent has worn off on many of the older ones. The FDA actually approves the immunization itself is ok to be given, but does not make the schedule. The government ends up paying for a lot of these immunizations to be given - so cost effectiveness is taken into account (in this area, families who don''t have insurance can go to a clinic for free immunizations without having a well child check). Drug companies are not going to develop these products unless the medical community is saying this is something they will give on a large scale. It is not in their best interest to do so. I have a huge problem with the drug companies and the way they do business, but I do not think of immunizations the same as medications. The goal of immunizations is to get your body to mount an immune response to a harmless substance so that it makes memory for a certain disease (the fever, body aches, ect is your immune response). When you see that disease for real, you body has memory and can kill it before it gets out of control and causes harm. Most of the drugs these days are either treating an already active problem (ie antibiotics for infection), or are used to control a chronic problem - but don''t actually fix the underlying disease (i.e inhalers for asthma control it, but do not cure the asthma). The latter is where drug companies make their money, which is why you see a lot of ads for these products.

And I say this a lot, but I will say it again. No medical treatment is without risk. You do the things where the benefit outweighs the risk, and that is a key factor in deciding the immunization schedule. When my Dad was a kid he got the small pox immunization, which has some side effects. But small pox killed people, so he got it. When small pox was erracated, the risk of the immunization outweighed the benefit, as there was no benefit now - so it was removed from the schedule. Even with the terror threats, the small pox vaccine has not been re-introduced, because there is still no clear benefit (as there have been no new cases), and the vaccine still has the same risks.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 6/11/2009 5:37:40 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 6/11/2009 5:20:13 PM
Author:soocool
would you also not immunize your cat or dog?

I think if anyone feels so strongly about not immunizing your children, they should feel the same way about immunizing their pets. Yet I have met one such person who speaks out against childhood immunizations (yes she has an autistic child), but her 3 dogs all get their shots, including the vaccine against Lyme disease and kennel cough, in addition to the regular ones.

Are there autistic pets (I don''t have one, so I don''t know) and if so, are they special needs that are an extra burden?

Because as much as I do believe in vacs, I don''t think this is exactly apples to apples.

Well, my parents vet reckons that one of their cats has autistic traits - social interaction problems with cats and people, weird repetitive behaviours etc

He is very odd compared with any other cat they have had - and that is a heck of a lot of cats over the years as they were breeders at one point.

Anyway, they are all vaccinated every year - it''s a condition of the cattery where they are boarded from time to time.

 

[MustangGal]

We had a beagle that I swear was autistic. He didn''t care to be petted, could care less about pleasing his owners, and didn''t interact well with other dogs. After a year of dealing with him, we gave him up to the local beagle rescue club. Along with a donation.

My family was never the best with getting the animals vaccinated, they would get their puppy/kitten shots, and that was about it. The dogs were also never in the house-ranch dogs. We treated them as pets, not children. The 3 indoor cats I have now only got their first kitten shots and got fixed, and haven''t seen a vet since. Two are 7 years old, the other is 2, and haven''t had any health issues.

So I guess I''m the other side, I am vaccinating my baby, but I''m not the best at getting the pets vaccinated.

 

[MustangGal]

I believe MC is the only one on this board that didn''t vaccinate, so all these vaccination threads don''t really get good viewpoints from both sides of the issue anyway.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 6/12/2009 11:06:34 AM
Author: MustangGal
I believe MC is the only one on this board that didn't vaccinate, so all these vaccination threads don't really get good viewpoints from both sides of the issue anyway.

Yep, it's difficult to read the "debates" over and over on here when everyone is on the same side (or possibly the anti-vac parents are afraid of speaking out). . .I already pointed out that my kids will get the chicken pox vaccination if they do not contract it by 10-12ish (haven't decided when). It's not as if they'll be at risk for shingles because I *know* that is a concern for adults who haven't gotten the chicken pox as kids.

I do not feel I'm an irresponsible parent. More a cautious one! As my older son approaches 9, I will begin re-evaluating each vaccination and determine which ones he should get and when.

Oh, and my cats have *not* been vaccinated. Both are completely neurotic and insane on their own!

 

[qtiekiki]

Date: 6/12/2009 11:50:35 AM
Author: MC
Yep, it's difficult to read the 'debates' over and over on here when everyone is on the same side (or possibly the anti-vac parents are afraid of speaking out). . .I already pointed out that my kids will get the chicken pox vaccination if they do not contract it by 10-12ish (haven't decided when). It's not as if they'll be at risk for shingles because I *know* that is a concern for adults who haven't gotten the chicken pox as kids.

I do not feel I'm an irresponsible parent. More a cautious one! As my older son approaches 9, I will begin re-evaluating each vaccination and determine which ones he should get and when.

Oh, and my cats have *not* been vaccinated. Both are completely neurotic and insane on their own!

It's not the adults who never had chicken pox that are at risk of getting shingles. It's actually the opposite. The people at risk are those who had have the chicken pox virus. The chicken pox virus stays dormant in the nerve roots once you get better from it. The virus doesn't go away. Shingles is when the dormant chicken pox virus become active again. Usually it occurs when someone is stress or has a weakened immune system. You can't contract shingles from someone with shingles. It's not like chicken pox. Basically you can't get shingles if you've never had chicken pox or the vaccine.

 

[MustangGal]

I had shingles a few years ago (I had chicken pox as in infant), and was very lucky to have an extremely mild case. Just a few itchy bumps on my hip that went away after a steroid treatment.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 6/12/2009 12:59:42 PM
Author: qtiekiki

It''s not the adults who never had chicken pox that are at risk of getting shingles. It''s actually the opposite. The people at risk are those who had have the chicken pox virus. The chicken pox virus stays dormant in the nerve roots once you get better from it. The virus doesn''t go away. Shingles is when the dormant chicken pox virus become active again. Usually it occurs when someone is stress or has a weakened immune system. You can''t contract shingles from someone with shingles. It''s not like chicken pox. Basically you can''t get shingles if you''ve never had chicken pox or the vaccine.

Okay, I was looking at that earlier after reading your post. Interesting bit of info I found online: when an adult is exposed to children with chicken pox, it helps them keep up their immunity to shingles and now that kids have been vaccinated, the rate of shingles among aduts who contracted chicken pox is expected to raise. Have you heard about this?

 

[choro72]

Date: 6/12/2009 2:13:08 PM
Author: MustangGal
I had shingles a few years ago (I had chicken pox as in infant), and was very lucky to have an extremely mild case. Just a few itchy bumps on my hip that went away after a steroid treatment.

Steroid treatment!? FI has it since April, and he is still in pain

Doctors told him, "sucks to be you, it''s going to hurt, might be months, mwahahaha". Motrin and Tylenol don''t work. Is steroid treatment the standard procedure for shingles?