I think this is something more than cold feet! :\

[Amys Bling]

I think seeking counseling is the best thing you can do right now- for both you and yuor FI.

 

[rosetta]

Best of luck and loads of hugs sweetpea.

 

[Anonymous]

*big hugs*

It is very good that your SO is willing to work at this now that he knows it's something that's not just going to fix itself. It's also great that you're looking into a counselor and are taking time to think things through vs. making any rash decisions. All the best to you.

 

[missydebby]

Sweatpea, I just want to thank you for coming to us with your situation. It's so hard to reach out sometimes... much love to you. I'm proud of you.

 

[StonieGrl]

Missydebby's post, excellent stuff there.

Counseling needed *before* you're married?

I agree with the poster who said this should be the best time of your relationship in many ways.

That small voice that is begging you to listen, please do listen!!!! It will try to get your attention any number of ways, just like that panic attack we read about here. If you disrespect that voice, it will soon refrain from being your best protector.

I'm going to be very, very frank here re the 'scandal' of calling it off:
1. No one really cares other than your dearest/closest friend or family and your fiance.
2. Anyone else who claims to have an opinion has their head in their a## and has no business having an opinion.

I've posted before that I am a professional musician and in my younger making-the-rent days played lots and lots of weddings (lucrative, thank god). I've seen brides getting a foot in their rear from a parent or wedding coordinator to start them down the aisle, seen brides bail and grooms bail with a church full waiting, seen all kinds of psychosomatic behavior just begging for a cancellation. People were mostly fascinated that someone had the GUTS to take care of business!

Some dilemas or questions truly are "yes/no":
Question: On ____________date, do you wholeheartedly and unreservedly want to marry __________________?

If you don't have a "hell yes" response, the answer is no.

To thine own self be true.

 

[sweetpea&babycorn]

Thank you all for the love and support. It's given me a lot of optimism and has really gotten me to stop getting ahead of myself and take things one day at a time.

It's really one of the hardest things in my life that I've had to go through, and it's starting to creep into other parts of my life, so we're finally taking action. We found a counselor who we will try to meet with next week. My fiance's been really active about it which I really appreciate, because I no longer feel like I'm going through it by myself. I really really hope things work out. I tried asking him to at least agree to postpone the wedding but he disagreed and said he'd feel more comfortable with a final decision after a few sessions.

So hopefully after next week I will have more updates. But I just wanted to tell everyone how much I appreciate the reassurance and positivity.

 

[beadchick]

Hey Sweetpea,

I've been reading this string for the last week, and, I wanted to tell you something: ITS ALL GOING TO BE OKAY.

It really will. I was engaged last year, and my wedding (notice I said my, I no longer say our) was called off two weeks beforehand. (his mom didn't like me, there were other problems, I'm SURE you can find threads about it). At any rate, here is what I've learned, I want to say "I do" to the guy I'm going to be married to forever, I want him to do just as many nice things for me as I do for him. I want him to listen to me and COMMUNICATE with me, and I don't want to be made to feel crazy b/c I am asking him to do those things.

At some point along the way, someone said to me "Its not supposed to be this hard this early." And you know what, it isn't. If you find yourself constantly trying to make things work, make things better, make a square fit in a round peg or whatever, then it might be time to let go. I loved my fiance dearly, I couldn't understand how I could end up NOT with him. In hindsight, it would have been much worse to have been married to him. I wasn't cherished in the way I wanted to be. He loved me in the way he was capable, but, we didn't match in areas that we NEEDED to match.

Whatever you decide, you will be okay. It'll hurt for a while if it ends (believe me, it will, and you'll survive), and if it doesn't end, you might question yourself as you are walking down the aisle. You shouldn't be in that position, so do as much as you can to avoid it. Whatever you decide, I congratulate you for knowing yourself well enough to examine yourself and your fiance. I used to think that if you love each other enough, you can make anything work. But, you shouldn't have to spend your life fighting for attention or acknowledgement. Don't rush yourself. And don't make any decisions you aren't ready to make. You don't have to do anything you aren't ready to do.

Oh, yeah, and breathe.

And email me if you need to vent

 

[Steel]

Thank you all for the love and support. It's given me a lot of optimism and has really gotten me to stop getting ahead of myself and take things one day at a time.

It's really one of the hardest things in my life that I've had to go through, and it's starting to creep into other parts of my life, so we're finally taking action. We found a counselor who we will try to meet with next week. My fiance's been really active about it which I really appreciate, because I no longer feel like I'm going through it by myself. I really really hope things work out. I tried asking him to at least agree to postpone the wedding but he disagreed and said he'd feel more comfortable with a final decision after a few sessions.

So hopefully after next week I will have more updates. But I just wanted to tell everyone how much I appreciate the reassurance and positivity.

In his shoes I would prefer to attend the counsellor before making any announcements but I really posted to say kudos to the two of you for attending a counsellor. I hope it brings relief and clarity.

 

[StonieGrl]

Spbc, my comment about counseling prior to marriage, wrong on my part, what I was shooting for was that being in that kind of a bind prior to the actual marriage is troubling, which you already know. You are clearly a thoughtful and kind person and you will make a right and good decision because of that. Counseling is particularly helpful when one finds themself in a "stuck" position, can't go forward, can't back up either so you and your fiance made a good decision to give it a shot.

Lot of people have been in your position, including myself, and I wish we'd had the intelligence to get counseling, that way we hopefully would have wrapped up the indecision sooner and saved feelings that were hurt by the indecision. We just banged through it ourselves and made a real mess of the whole thing.

You are way ahead of that.

 

[Nomsdeplume]

I'm so sorry that you are going through this, and I really hope it all works out for the best.
Only you can make the final decision. People get married for a lot of reasons, an some are better than others. I don't believe you should ever get married just because you have been together for so long that it seems logical and easier to move forward into marriage than take a step back and consider giving up that "security blanket".
Ultimately, nobody is perfect and marriage requires work, but you should aim to marry someone who has flaws you can live with. People don't often change. Hoping that your husband won't slip into his old ways isn't a good way to start off.
Good luck!
(((HUGS)))

 

[missydebby]

Sweatpea, I can imagine a giant hug from all of us enfolding you. Can you feel it? We are here for you

 

[Dreamer_D]

I just want to add one thing to what has been said.

I encourage you to do some soul searchng and perhaps individual counselling to figure out what part of your worries doubts and anxieties are driven by your own fears and anxieties, and what part is based on objective truths about your relationship.

I suggest this because people very often have unrealistic expectations about what love feels like longterm, for example, or they will have fears of abandonment or rejection, and those psychological issues can color how one perceives what may be in fact a perfectly good relationship.

If your trobles stem from core incompatibilities that you think the two of you cannot adjust to, then perhaps calling it off is the best bet. But beware that no matter the relationship you choose, you are marrying a set of chronic and long term issues that will likely never go away. As a well known psychologist, John Gottman, says, being married and being happy is like learning the live with irritable bowel syndrome You never cure it, but you learn the ways to avoid the flare ups by avoiding certain foods. Research shows that the conflicts you have now will be the conlficts you have in 50 years together. What will determines whether you will be happy or not is NOT how perfectly matched you are and how free of problems, but rather how good you are at adapting to one another peculiarities and learning the overlook each others flaws.

On the other hand, your doubts about your relationship may stem from your own insecurities and anxieties -- which ironically can cause one to become very negative about ones partner and withdraw connection and love as a means of avoiding the hurt of rejection. If your own fears of rejection or anxieties about closeness are driving your feelings, then you will likely carry them into your next relationship and ending this one will not really change anything.

My point is, do some deep thinking and try to gain some clarity about why you feel like you do. Even if it seems to be all about him, it is not. Own your part and then decide if the troubles you have now are big enough to start over, and honestly, find a whole nother can or worms, with another man. Maybe they are, maybe they are not. Only you can know.

 

[rosetta]

Dreamer that is so insightful! IBS huh? I think I can live with it.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Had to comment and say that was an excellent post, Dreamer! Men are always going to be men and I haven't met a perfect one yet! But I've been married to the same one for over 30 years! I think people have unrealistic expectations about the romance of a new relationship lasting forever, but real life is not like the movies. I have not read the 5 Love Languages Book, but I have read about it, and it really helped me to see how my husband shows love to me in the helpful things he does and not so much in romantic gestures. I do think a relationship is much different after 6 years than it is in the first year or so. Good luck to yo, Sweetpea!

 

[sweetpea&babycorn]

Dreamer, that was a great post, thank you for sharing your insight. It's funny because my mom said something so similar, it's uncanny. And she's one of the smartest people I know

I definitely have done some self-reflecting, and I think I have definitely changed in terms of my expectations, what I'm willing to overlook, and the things I used to think weren't a big deal but now see that it's so important in our relationship. We're definitely in very different places, and his independent nature with my nuturing personality makes it difficult for us understand and cater to each other's expectations. He's very hands off and independent and treats me like I am the same. Whereas the things I do for him I feel are unrecognized and unappreciated because it's not something he expects. Not sure if that makes sense but it's a little hard to explain in words.

We haven't met a counselor yet. In my mind I know he doesn't want to do it. I really don't think counseling will help us if we're both not committed to it. I asked him to sort of take the lead on it to see how much he really wanted to do it and avoid assumptions (plus he has way more free time than I do) and he hasn't made an appointment yet. I was a little disappointed but at this point, and as immature as it may seem, the ball is in his court. When I told him I wanted to call off the wedding (pre-counseling idea) he asked me to give him time and it's really felt like torture trying to make this work without seeing much progress.

I don't think neither he or I are in the wrong here, but it just might be a matter of incompatibility that hasn't manifested itself until now? Neither of us are bad people, and we both have so much to offer each other but our communication seems almost non-existent.

We did have a long conversation again which resulted in me crying again and him hearing me say that I think counseling would help us (as if bringing up the suggestion, finding several counselors, giving him my schedule for the next 2 weeks, and asking him questions regarding follow up wasn't clear enough), he said he'd call in the morning. I'm really hoping someone can help us, because I know right now we can't do this on our own.

Thank you all for the continued support!

 

[LadyluvsLuxury]

SPBC first...*hugs* I'm sorry you are going through this difficult time. Second, I think you should read 'The Five Languages of Love', it's an extremely insightful and interesting book. Sometimes, problems in a relationship isn't about one person not loving the other or vice versa, but about each person not knowing HOW to love the other person. As you mentioned, your FI is very independent and you are very nurturing, in his mind he is giving you everything he would expect from you in return; but for you it isn't what (or all) you need. There isn't a right or wrong, but there could be a compatibility issue if you both aren't in tune with what the other person needs to FEEL loved and appreciated. Give the book a try, and definitely go to counseling; however, take it from someone with personal experience NOTHING will work if you two aren't BOTH 100% invested in making changes and recognizes that there is a need for change.

Good luck!!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think you are right to give this serious thought and to take these issues seriously. Though no relationship is perfect, certainly, and adaptation is necessary, there is also research to suggest that when serious issues exist in a relationship -- and I would say calling off the wedding and/or seeing a councellor prior to a wedding are signs of serious issues -- they do not typically resolve after marriage. So give this the time it needs for you to sort it out and come to a conclusion for yourself before you make any permanent decisions.

I think not matter what, you personally should do some long hard thinking about what you do want in a partner, maybe look at other marriages you know and make notes of the things you like and dislike, and then figure out what your core values are in the relationship with respect to the qualities your partner brings and the way he treats you. If you can identify those things, and if they seem like reasonable requests that you think actually exist in another person then it might be worth it to look for it either in your partner or else in another. You might also want to have a similar idea of the things you are willing to compomise on, because if you do find a more demonstrative and affectionate spouse, for example, you will likely have to compromise in other areas -- maybe he has sensitive feelings you will need to protect, maybe he will need more closeness than you want to give, maybe he will need a lot of support and guidance in planning and orgaizing his life. There is *always* a flaw. But some are more central to your needs than others. If the most core central need you have is to be with a man who showers you in affection and adores you (hey, that ain't such a bad thing, and there are men who will treat you that way), then go find it and work with the other less important aspects of the relationshp.

Something to think about that might help you out is to think about your partner and his personality, his ways of thinking, acting, his preferred levels of closeness and intimacy etc etc. The fact is, those things will not change, they are part of his personality blueprint and in my opinion you should never ask a person to change their personality blueprint. Specific behaviours, sure -- try to get him to pick up his dirty underwear, to call when he will be late, to kiss you hello. Those are small things that anyone can learn and perhaps (perhaps ) change for their partner. But do not expect an untidy person to become a neat freak, a forgetful chronically late person to become punctual, or an independent person to become a love bug. Do you see the difference? Ask yourself whether, to be happy, you need you husband to *fundamentally change who he is*, or whether you simply want him to change a couple bad behaviours. The latter is perfectly fair, the former is not. If he needs to change who he is fundamentally for you to be happy as his wife, than to be fair to him, cut him loose now. Or else dramatically change your expectations.

 

[sweetpea&babycorn]

Thanks again Dreamer for your wonderful insight. What you're talking about is what I'm battling with right now. Do I want him to fundamentally change who he is? Of course not. But what we've both found is that things aren't so black and white. Like, I want him to change his self-awareness and become more self-reflective about himself because some of his bad behavior stems from the fact that he is not very self-aware. But this is also linked to the fact that he's a very "go with the flow" kind of guy, so he doesn't really think too much about what happens or some of the decisions he makes. I don't want him to be rigid, and overanalytic, and I know this the extreme opposite, but I don't want to make him feel like he should change who he is because who he is is wrong. Does that make sense?

My fiance also shared with me that he doesn't want to change who he is but he does want me to change how I view him and our relationship, which I think is fair. This may also go in line with evaluating my expectations. I know that I've changed as a person throughout our relationship and I'm pretty sure my expectations have as well. So self-reflection on my part is important too.

We went to our first counseling session on Friday (the process of getting the appointment was very difficult). I think it went pretty well, though it felt more of the same of what we've been doing. It's not a bad thing, since our counselor wanted to get to know us and learn about our background. She has asked us to write down 3 things we want out of the relationship for our next session which I think will help lead our next conversation with her.

My best friend bought me a book on marriage before finding out that we might cancel the wedding. I have break from school in a week so I will hopefully be able to get through the book. I will also definitely try to get a copy of The Five Languages of Love.
Thanks for the continued support, thoughts, and encouragement. It means so much to me and definitely makes me feel like I'm not going through this alone

 

[Amys Bling]

happy to hear you started counceling. I think you may find that throughout the process you might both learn alot about each other you never knew.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Thanks again Dreamer for your wonderful insight. What you're talking about is what I'm battling with right now. Do I want him to fundamentally change who he is? Of course not. But what we've both found is that things aren't so black and white. Like, I want him to change his self-awareness and become more self-reflective about himself because some of his bad behavior stems from the fact that he is not very self-aware. But this is also linked to the fact that he's a very "go with the flow" kind of guy, so he doesn't really think too much about what happens or some of the decisions he makes. I don't want him to be rigid, and overanalytic, and I know this the extreme opposite, but I don't want to make him feel like he should change who he is because who he is is wrong. Does that make sense?

My fiance also shared with me that he doesn't want to change who he is but he does want me to change how I view him and our relationship, which I think is fair. This may also go in line with evaluating my expectations. I know that I've changed as a person throughout our relationship and I'm pretty sure my expectations have as well. So self-reflection on my part is important too.

My view on relationships is that you cannot change another person, you can only let them know what you want and then they make the choice to either change or not, and you make the choice of whether to accept them or not. In other words, the focus is not on change but on clear communication with one another. And then the result is very simple -- am I happy with this relationship or not. If your needs are crystal clear -- which they may not be at the moment -- and your partner chooses not to meet your needs/desires, well that says a lot in my opinion. On the other hand he may be incapable of meeting a particular need, it just may not be in his makeup and personality. And then you need to accept him as he is or choose to move on.

And here I am just writing what comes to my mind, and you can choose to take it or leave it, but here is my first thoughts on reading the above. I actually do suspect that "self-awareness" as you call it, is not all that important for the issues you are having. The reality is, most of the time all of us act automatically and on instict, and then make up theories *after* to explain our behaviour. And lots of people spend a lot of time thinking about their feelings and emotions and talking about them and coming to big grand conclusions about who they are and what they do, but in my opinion as a psychologist and as a woman who likes to observe her friends , those opinions and theories are whooey a lot of the time. So my point is, I bet your partner has self-awareness that is about on par with anyone else's Instead, I suspect that when you use that word you mean something else, which is that you want him to treat you in a different way. And you think that if he had self-awareness there is no way he would treat you in the bad ways that make you mad/hurt/sad etc. Right? So you ask him to try and change his self-awareness thinking this will solve the issue, but it most likely will not. The fact is, that if he is not treating you in a way that you want it likely has nothing to do with self-awareness but has to do with other things. Like he thinks he treats you fine, or he does not know what you want, or you are not communicating your needs clearly, or you are reacting to your interpretation of the meaning behind his behaviour and not his actual behaviour, or or or or or. There are a million *specific* explanations for why Person B feels bad in response to Person A's behaviour, and girl I am telling you, self-awareness ain't one of them.

Honestly, 99% of the time that Partner B feels hurt by Partner A's behaviour, it is because the way that Partner A is behaving makes Partner B feel unloved and undervalued. When we are mad and hurt by our partner's behaviour it is not about THEM, it is about US and our own perceptions of whether they love us or not. And 99% of the time the solutuion to this problem, if one is found, is not in changing Partner A's behaviour. It is in changing Partner B's perceptions of Partner A and his or her love and regard. The languages of love book may help. But it also boils down the self-confidence. If you know your partner loves you, then every little thing they do is not so important. You won't always be analyzing his behavious for what it means about his love. And you won't be hurt when he is not self-aware. You will just think to yourself "There he goes again!" It is a lot easier to overlook a partner's bad behaviour when it is just a foible, and a lot harder when it is a sign that they do not really love you.

Now all bets are off if he demeans you, or beats you, or abuses you in another way, or controls you or all those non-negotiables. But if you are talking about the every-day bad behaviours and hurts that every partner does at one time or another, well I guess what I am suggesting is that the solution is not about him. Your happiness in this relationship is about you changing your perceptions of his behaviour and your reactions to him and the way you treat him. Sounds crazy, but we can only take responsibility for ourselves. If you keep focussing on how he needs to change to make you happy, then you will not get there. focus on what you need to change to make you, and him, happy. Then you might get somewhere.

 

[Amys Bling]

I think Dreamer is spot on on many levels.

The self awareness thing- I think that if you make yourself clear about his behaviors and HOW and WHy they churt you, etc, and he doesnt "change" or "get" it then either you have to change your way of thinking regarding the situation or you have your answer. Are you happy and willing in this relationship if these bad behaviors never change. I think it is hard to change another person- like Dreamer said- they need to be made aware of the issues you have and it is up to them to change or do something about it if they want to.


also- with the theories aspect- I agree with that too. I think many times after a situation occurs we do -after the fact- rationalize what happened and why- when it may just be that the people involved see it different ways and react different ways.

 

[havernell]

Hi sweetpea,

I just saw this thread (haven't been on PS in a while) and wanted to say that you should be proud of yourself for having the courage to confront you feeling in the lead up to the wedding. Whatever decision you make, you'll be on much better footing going forward having gone through this period of reflection.

I also wanted to comment on one thing. It sounds like you and your fiance kind of agreed that you would decide if you want to call off the wedding or not "after 2 or 3 counseling sessions." I'm a bit worried about this- working through issues in counseling takes time, and I really doubt anything will be super clear after only 2 or 3 sessions (since, as you mentioned yourself, the first few sessions are mostly about the counselor just getting caught up to speed on your unique situation anyway). So, if after a few sessions you are still feeling unsure, please don't be pressured into making a decision! You need to protect yourself above all else. Perhaps postponing the wedding (not calling it off, not moving full steam ahead) would be a good solution until you've had enough time in counseling to really decide what the two of you want together.

Please continue to take good care of yourself!

 

[Allison D.]

The last thing I want to do is change who he is, or take him out of his comfort zone, but he is insisting that he can be different and be better about communicating. He's said this before and we always find ourselves back in this situation, and to get out of it, I just sort of give up and manage to convince myself that they will be better.

This is the crux of the problem in my mind.

If you want to have a happy marriage, you have to marry the person he already IS, not the person you hope he'll change into or MAYBE become someday. Good communication is a must-have in a marriage, and if you don't have it now, it won't magically appear down the line.

The misgivings you're having suggest to me that you don't really want to marry the person he is right now. If you want to marry the person you think he could become AND you think he's capable of really becoming that person (as he claims he can), postponing the wedding would give you both the chance to see if it's really possible for him to do so. If he delivers, then you will be marrying the person he is happily. If he can't, you'll have avoided a huge mistake.

 

[sillyberry]

sweetpea, I noticed on another thread you posted a wedding ring you purchased. How are things going for you two?

I hope everything is well.

 

[sweetpea&babycorn]

Hi everyone. I hope you all had a great holiday! Those of you who have been looking at RT and SMTB have probably seen my posts about my wedding band. So its pretty obvious that counseling is going vey well and my fiance has been very receptive to our sessions and our counselor. I was also able to work out some of my own personal difficulties right now which I think I've been unfairly putting on him. So we're both working through our own stuff but with each other involved and supporting each other. My friend also gave me a book on marriage that I've been reading and it has really helped me sort out my feelings about this. By no means are things perfect. What we're doing now is definitely a work in progress. I definitely think we're headin in the right direction. We're both committed to making this work and trying to be positive about working together to be happy. We take things one day at a time and we're talking a lot more to each other and never let a conversation end in anger. I love him and the more we talk the more I know he's worth it and all the good fights. Ive thought about what my life would be without him and I know it wouldn't be as fulfilling as it is now.

Of course I wouldnt have been so level-headed and rational about it without you guys!! So thank you with all my heart. My fiancé only sees PS as the site with all the bling but it's definitely much more than that look out later for our DIY invites and my wedding dress!

 

[Jessie702]

Hi everyone. I hope you all had a great holiday! Those of you who have been looking at RT and SMTB have probably seen my posts about my wedding band. So its pretty obvious that counseling is going vey well and my fiance has been very receptive to our sessions and our counselor. I was also able to work out some of my own personal difficulties right now which I think I've been unfairly putting on him. So we're both working through our own stuff but with each other involved and supporting each other. My friend also gave me a book on marriage that I've been reading and it has really helped me sort out my feelings about this. By no means are things perfect. What we're doing now is definitely a work in progress. I definitely think we're headin in the right direction. We're both committed to making this work and trying to be positive about working together to be happy. We take things one day at a time and we're talking a lot more to each other and never let a conversation end in anger. I love him and the more we talk the more I know he's worth it and all the good fights. Ive thought about what my life would be without him and I know it wouldn't be as fulfilling as it is now.

Of course I wouldnt have been so level-headed and rational about it without you guys!! So thank you with all my heart. My fiancé only sees PS as the site with all the bling but it's definitely much more than that look out later for our DIY invites and my wedding dress!

Sweet- i am so happy things are working out postively for you and your FI...no one has a perfect marriage, its just about finding the right balance so you dont hurt each other. Just Kidding...Keep us posted and would love to see your DIY stuff

 

[TooPatient]

Sweet,

I'm glad your counselor is helping you both. All people have their issues/problems/quirks and I think it is GREAT that you are both working on your individual stuff TOGETHER. Your attitude is wonderful and it sounds like you make a great team.

I wish you all the best as you continue your counseling and learn to communicate with each other.

 

[vintagelover229]

Sweet:
That's great news! I've been following this for a while and I was hoping to see that it was helping you guys! If he's willing to work though these things together, I think you've found yourself a keeper. He really does love you and you're working together to communicate better and strengthen your relationship. That is what marriage is all about.


HUGS!