I need some expert advice

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/21/2008 1:39:03 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 2/21/2008 1:33:58 PM
Author: mrssalvo
does your girlfriend want a princess? I ask b/c most gals who want rounds would not want a princess. it''s not an overly popular shape right no so unless you know that''s what she wants no need going down that path.

narly- the table on the stone you found in India is just too large. seriously, take out the whole buying from india thing, which I personally would not do with such an important purchase, I still would not buy that stone. believe me with diamonds especially, you really do get what you pay for.

i really do hope you''ll take us up on our offer to help put together a perfect ring for your gal but understand if you want to just test out the waters and go the India route. Princess stones are also very hard to judge by numbers alone, if i were hunting for a princess I would probably stick to those who are graded by AGS and recieve the highly coveted 000 rating.

Me too. Because we are very good at this. Of course, some of us have had more experience than others...

*looks at mrsSmith*

But seriously, we know what to look for, no one knows settings better than mrss, and I am just totally confident if you let us help you, your lady will be sending us all fruitcakes next xmas to thank us.

Ditto and thritto! I always look for MrsS for setting help, she is the MOST!!!

And I will hold you to that fruitcake and I can only hope that includes my favourite carrot ( even though tis a vegetable

) just for me.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 2/22/2008 1:22:24 AM
Author: narly_1
Mrsalvo, thank you for the link to www.memoire.com. That is exactly what I wanted. The asscher collection is to die for. I found out through the website that there is a jeweller in Asheville, NC, which is only 60 miles from me who carries this collection! I know where I am headed this weekend! OK....so, we have the body of the car ready....now, if I can find the perfect darn engine..I will be set...oh well, probably a bad analogy...but I live in NASCAR country....lol.


Thanks.

i''m so glad you have someplace semi local to go and see the setting. I do want you to be aware that Memoire rings are somewhat pricy so you don''t get sticker shock. they are more than most shared prong settings out there, but less than the Tiffany version. I honestly believe the quality and craftmanship is worth the price. Once you get a quote from you local jeweler, I''d still suggest getting quotes from Quest and pearlmans, never hurts to negotiate a bit and see who can provide you with the best price, especially when budget is an issue, which it is for most of us.

have fun!!

thanks lorelei

 

[Ellen]

Date: 2/22/2008 1:22:24 AM
Author: narly_1
Mrsalvo, thank you for the link to www.memoire.com. That is exactly what I wanted. The asscher collection is to die for. I found out through the website that there is a jeweller in Asheville, NC, which is only 60 miles from me who carries this collection! I know where I am headed this weekend! OK....so, we have the body of the car ready....now, if I can find the perfect darn engine..I will be set...oh well, probably a bad analogy...but I live in NASCAR country....lol.

Thanks.

They are beautiful aren''t they? In fact, when I started looking for my upgrade stone, that''s exactly what I wanted. However, after doing some research on them, I decided as much as I loved them and wanted one, it wasn''t going to be possible/satisfy me. Here''s why, and what you should consider before buying one.


They are a deeper cut stone, therefore, some of the "size" you would see in a round (spread/diameter), will be hidden in an Asscher. So if you had a 1 ct. round and Asscher together, the round will definitely look bigger. So, one needs to go bigger in an Asscher, which in turn costs more money than if you picked a round.

i.e. Here''s a 1.05 ct. round

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/3935/

Note that the diameter is 6.54 x 6.57.


Here''s the same ct. weight Asscher

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/3694/

The diameter on this one is 5.68 x 5.71. That''s a big difference. If you''re wanting her to sport a big rock, this isn''t the way to go unfortunately. Your budget just wouldn''t allow the ct. weight you would need.



They are a totally different "look" than a round. They don''t give off tons of sparkles like a round. They''re beautiful, and do sparkle, but it''s different. Many woman want that round sparkle.


And, they show every bit of dust, dirt, water spot, etc, in a nano second after cleaning it. They are definitely higher maintenance. (I have an Emerald cut, not Asscher, but close enough to know about the cleaning part)


You can do a search on here, Gypsy did a thread about the pros and cons I think. Just some things to think about. I don''t mean to burst your bubble, but this is an important purchase, you want to make sure you get it right.


I still love them, and want one. It''s my ultimate dream right hand ring someday.

 

[narly_1]

Hello friends. Its me again. I feel like you are friends who I can come and tell my worse messes and you will steer me straight. So, here is my latest mess. I was at a local jewelers, browsing around when I saw the following ring:

A platinum setting, 3 smaller princess cuts totalling about a carat on each side of the center and a 2.19ct, H to I color round stone in the middle. I put it through a loop, I looked at it under his scope and for the life of me, I COULD NOT SEE ANY INCLUSIONS. I looked at the body from below, I looked at the girdle, this stone was clean. So this would be a 3.19ct ring.

We measured the stone and it matched the dimensions of a 2ct stone. It was 8.32mm in diameter and about 5.1mm in depth. Of course, it is hard to be precise because the stone is already set. He called it a EUROPEAN cut and the biggest difference I could tell was that the culet looked "snipped". Is that cut not as brilliant as a 58 faceted round brilliant cut?

Being in a small town, people do tend to be a little more laid back and he is willing to let me take the stone to a reputable jeweler in town to get it appraised and graded.

As you can guess, this stone has no papers.

Smack me upside the head or tell me that I would be making a mistake. But his asking price is $20K.

Comments?

P.S. NO, I have not bought it but sure felt weak in the knees when I saw it. And yes, I have done things like buy a Benz convertible off eBay. It actually worked out well for me..interestingly. I am goofy that way....but will not make a diamond purchase at random anymore....

 

[Ellen]

narly, it actually sounds like that center stone could be an Old European cut. The "clipped" culet, along with what he called it, makes it sound like it could be. Many of us love old stones, you actually might have something desirable there. However, I have no idea what that would go for as far as price, and you don''t have a clarity for it, which makes it harder to tell. At this point, you might want to start a new thread, with something like, Possible OEC, what might it be worth? Then give all the details you just gave here. There are gals on here who have done research and shopped for these types, and they can maybe help you.

 

[surfgirl]

Dude, you're freaking out. Stop. Breathe. Breathe again!

Okay, first of all, you're all over the map in terms of shapes. I thought you were looking at rounds, then you go to asschers, now Princess & OEC? An OEC has big, fat chunky facets and an open culet (which is why the bottom point looks "snipped" or open). A Princess is a sharp square shape with pointy corners, and sharp, brilliant style spikey faceting, all radiating from the center point. I have no idea what you saw but princess stones weren't around when OECs were, at least I dont think they were, so I think you were seeing either a repro setting or those princesses were really square french cuts.

Also, you haven't said what your GF likes/loves. I think you should be looking at whatever shape SHE loves, that's the most important thing, IMO, as she's the one who will be wearing it.

Something else that's perplexing to me is that I work a lot in India and I've looked at plenty of nice jewelry shops and I've yet to see any GIA stones in India. That's just my experience but it sounds off to me. Also, as ellen said, this "I'm getting a deal from a family friend" scenario has been seen here many times and it never seems to end well.

So in summation, I think you need to find out what your GF loves in terms of shapes and settings. THEN, look more seriously. Right now when I read your posts it feels like you're shooting in the dark and let's face it, that's when you start making mistakes. Once you know her preferences, it will be much easier to help you find something. Lastly, I'd get over the "I want 4 cts. for my ering" thing. I dont think overloading a ring with alot of extra stuff means it'll be a better ring. If you have a killer stone, you really dont need anything else! See Boston Jeff's ering for example. IMO of course but I think many will agree, concentrate on getting the highest quality center stone you can and let the rest fall into place. You have a nice budget so you will be able to get a gorgeous stone. Good luck!

ETA: Antique stones are my passion and I adore them (I have several) but...if you don't know if your gf will LOVE them, then I'm not sure I'd go that direction. But if you can get photos, it would be worth seeing it. Unless you take an old stone for an independent appraisal, there's really no way to know for sure what you're looking at.

Also, you are right that OECs aren't usually as "brilliant" in returning white light back to the eye, as Rounds are. But they usually, if well cut, have better fire and scintillation...

 

[Ellen]

SG, I was wondering if someone had taken an OEC and reset it in a more "modern" setting. I think that''s possible. But, we really don''t have any way of knowing, without pics or an appraisal.

Since it doesn''t seem like he knows what she wants, I did avise him to go round, if in doubt. At least the center is.

And I may have to argue on the "better fire and scintillation" part of OEC vs. super duper round.

 

[mrssalvo]

I agree with surfgirl. i think you really need to find out what your girlfriend wants for her ring. especially with the amount of $ your planning on spending. if i were going to give my hubby a 20K gift I''d be darn sure it was everything he could want or dream of. My original e-ring was an OEC diamond. I loved it but OEC''s aren''t for everyone so without bing 100% that that would be something your gal would want I wouldn''t risk your 20K on it. If you want the ring/proposal to be a surprise, i''d really suggest buying from a vendor with a liberal return policy just in case she''s not head over heals about what you pick for her. I just went though a very long upgrade process and although the ring is a gift from my hubby, he let me pick it b/c he knew i''d be the one that has to wear it for the next 50 years and he wanted to be 100% sure i would LOVE it.

 

[narly_1]

Your wish is my command. Here is one pic.

 

[narly_1]

Here is another pic of the OEC.

 

[narly_1]

Thanks for the advice SG. I can start another thread on this OEC. Please allow me to clarify. I did mention the asscher collection on www.memoire.com but I did not imply that I was interested in an asscher cut. It just so happened, on their website, that the band and setting I was interested in showed up in their collection called Asscher. I know my girlfriend likes a round stone. I asked her if she prefers a whiter looking or a more fiery stone. She did not have a preference. Finally, I mentioned Princess stones because I believe the side stones in the ring shown above are princess cuts. Sorry for the confusion.

In the pics above, I see a lot of yellow...is that what you refer to as "fire"? Or is this a yellowish (beyond I) type color?

 

[narly_1]

SG....I do stand corrected. Upon revisiting the memoire website, I realized that the band and ring (as shown in one of the notes above) is part of the PETITE PRONG COLLECTION. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[barks21]

Narly-

Let me start off by saying that I am the furthest thing from an expert when it comes to diamond selection, as you can see this is only my second post on PS. I am just a regular guy who wanted to get a great diamond and ring for my girlfriend. I have spent the better part of the last few months reading and educating myself so that I could make an educated purchase. Dont rush this decision...take your time so that you do not have to go through the buyers remorse of buying a stone only to be disappointed again. I think you have gotten some great advice so far, escpecially from surgergirl.

You have the budget to get an amazing engagement ring, but if you insist on getting to the 4ctw. mark you may be disappointed in the quality you will be getting to stay within this budget.

Here is an idea...Find youself a nice 1.5-2ct diamond (by nice I mean Ideal cut preferrably) from one of the REPUTABLE online dealers found here in PS. There are many happy customers, myself included, who have used these dealers. Put the diamond into a memoire or signed pieces eternity band and you will have yourself one kickin'' ring in the 3ctw range.

Since most of these dealers have an upgrade policy, if you feel like you want to get to the 4ct mark a few years down the line you can simply trade up to a 3ct stone and get the 4ct ring you are targeting.

It is just my oninion that if you try and get a 4ctw ring you will not be getting something that you are happy with, other than the 4ctw mark.

Trust me, this..

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4026/

or this

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-636633.htm

or this

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-560213.htm

in this

http://www.signedpieces.com/item.cfm?item_id=2362

would completely blow her away.

I think someone else say you get what you pay for...And what you are getting here, although not 4ctw, is amazing. Best of luck in your search, Steve.

 

[surfgirl]

Thanks for the photos narly. Unfortunately I cant really tell if the OEC is good or not from those photos, however, that setting isn't vintage or antique...It looks indeed like Princess side stones and the setting looks quite dated to me stylewise- the center stone looks odd next to Princess cuts, aesthetically speaking (and IMO of course). But yes, the bursts of yellow, orange, red, blue - that is the "fire". If you go to the "Show me your Fire" thread on Rocky Talk (ellen is the originator and it's on one of the first few pages here), you will see what "fire" is. It's the colored bursts that come off of a stone. With old cuts, because the faceting is chunkier and bigger, you get bigger color flashes. With new Round Brilliants (RBs), your faceting is spikey so you get thinner color flashes. But with new RBs they're cut to reflect more WHITE light back at the viewer. The old cuts are cut to sparkle/shimmer (this is the "scintillation") and give off firey color bursts under lower light conditions and are sometimes called "candlelight diamonds" as a result. They look great in low lighting, though ellen can attest that they also looks great under bathroom chandeliers too! And halogen, and incandescent, and...well, you get the idea. But honestly, if you're going to buy a ring and your gf is not going to be involved at all in the selection process, then I would go with GOG and get her the best quality RB you can afford, and set it in a plain plat. prong setting and tell her that she can upgrade the setting at another time (or now if your budget permits). I'd forget about the "4 cts" remark, it's quite a lot and your budget doesn't support it so instead of getting a so-so center stone and filling up the rest of the setting with enough caratage to get to "4 cts", I'd strongly urge you to look into getting the best stone your budget can buy, from someone like Jon at GOG, who will give you a lifetime upgrade policy. That way, some day, you can get her the "4 cts" for a major anniversary or whatever, and until then, she's got a killer ring that will probably outshine any rings that her friends have.

Call Jon at GOG...Talk to him. And dont make a knee jerk purchase. I feel like you're desperate to get this over with and you're about to pull the trigger on a huge purchase. Dont! As Steve said, TAKE YOUR TIME. Consider all options. And come back here with any possibilities and we'll help you out.

 

[mrssalvo]

I can''t really tell anything about the stone in the pics either but am with surfgirl again that the setting does look dated to me. I MUCH prefer the memoire petite prong that you were originally considering over that one. I agree that the process is starting to seem a little rushed and that you just want to get *something 4 carats* and be done. are you still going to get to check out the memoire set in person at the semi-local store?

 

[narly_1]

Good morning all. Thanks for the feedback on the OEC. The jeweler had the stone in a safe for 3 years. He chose this mounting to set it in. Bad choice. If I am interested, he is willing to sell the stone alone for about $15K. I did not like the setting, seemed less feminine to me.

I am in no rush. I am going today to look at the memoire settings in Asheville.

I will call Jon at GOG and seek his help (I will mention the good people that sent me).

Another question is: The two stones that have interested me from a price point were this OEC and the 1.7ct, F, VVS2 with the large (63%) table. Can stones be recut? Can the large OEC be turned to a RB? Can the super priced 1.7ct be recut to a smaller table?

Off to Asheville today to look at the memoire settings.

 

[Ellen]

narly, glad to see you're going to call GOG, they carry killer stones, and have a good upgrade policy. And I agree, slowing down is a good thing.

And don't bother with recutting, it's not worth it.


I have to address something surfgirl said, I've seen you post this once before. I'm not sure what round brilliants you've looked at, and I have no doubt that you are posting as to what you saw. But RB's aren't cut now to return more white light, especially the super ideals we see on here. They are cut to have a very nice mix of both white light and fire. And depending on the LGF, they will either have the more spikey look that you refer to, or a mix of some smaller spike, and some very bold flash, which mine has, as do many of the stones we see carried at GOG, WF, etc.

Just an FYI.

 

[surfgirl]

Hi ellen, I swear that's what the experts have said here about the difference between OMC/OECs and RBs. Didn't Dave Atlas say that several times? I stand corrected if I misread that somewhere but I thought Dave said that, and maybe others? I'll look around here and see if I can find those threads...not saying you're wrong, just that I know I got that from somewhere in PS...

narly, great that you're going to call Jon at GOG. And yes, please do tell him you were referred by PS because IIRC, you get a PS discount. Jon is very responsive and will give you terrific service and honestly, if you can swing a little weekend trip up to NYC, you could have him get in as many options for you in your price range (like awesome stone but smaller in size vs. larger stones but lesser in other areas like color/clarity) and you can see/compare in person and choose. In fact, you could have him send you photos of the stones you're considering and post them here before going to see him. That way you get to see the stones in person before pulling the trigger and you're really not that far from NYC for a little weekend jaunt. Actually, I think Jon will do side by side comparison videos to send to you if you cant make it there and you could show us those too.

Any chance you'd take your GF with you so she can help decide?

Also, PLEASE DO NOT CONSIDER RE-CUTTING THAT OLD STONE! That's what's happened to so many of the old cuts and my personal opinion is that you must love the old stone "for what it is" and therefore, cutting would make it into a different stone altogether. The only reason to re-cut an old stone is if you were given a family old stone and you or your GF didn't like it and wanted to see if you could get it cut to better proportions so you didn't have to spend the money on a new stone. Doing that for the above stone isn't cost effective, IMO. You'll do better just looking at RBs that are already RBs.

Also, while I think you should go see that Memoire setting in person, I personally think those settings take away from the center stone because you've got so much going on with all the RB action all over the place (look at ellen's solitaire if you want to see a blinding example of what an awesome stone looks like alone!). I still think you should select the best quality, awesome, firey, brilliant, scintillating RB you can find - with a lifetime trade up policy - and pop that baby into a plain platinum 4 or 6 prong setting, and bling it up with an RB prong set eternity band. Done! Plenty of ladies here have that combo and it's classy, timeless and they have killer ering stones that stand on their own because they're such awesome quality, and then WITH the eternity band they get PLENTY of bling going on, and when they wear their wband alone, they've still got bling going on. That's my pick for you. That way you get all the components you want,plus you're able to upgrade the ering stone someday to her "magic number"...

 

[Ellen]

Date: 2/23/2008 1:40:20 PM
Author: surfgirl
Hi ellen, I swear that''s what the experts have said here about the difference between OMC/OECs and RBs. Didn''t Dave Atlas say that several times? I stand corrected if I misread that somewhere but I thought Dave said that, and maybe others? I''ll look around here and see if I can find those threads...not saying you''re wrong, just that I know I got that from somewhere in PS...

If you can find them, really, please do post them. Cuz I''m scratching my head here. See? ---->

 

[adlgel]

Surfgirl and MrsSalvo - just out of curiousity - what makes that setting seem dated to you - it looks like a channel set band and I thought that a channel setting was a fairly classic type of look and therefore wouldn''t become dated.

 

[narly_1]

Thanks SG, I will call Jon. I did not realize he was in NYC.....I think it wont be a problem taking my GF there....she lives across the Hudson in West New York...lol...coinky-dinky I guess.

I did see the Memoire setting. Very pretty but I was floored by the price. It would kill my RBC budget.

Also, FOR THE FIRST TIME, I saw the Hearts on Fire diamonds...WOOW! I saw them through a scope and man oh man...they are beautiful. They were AGS000 stones! A little pricey (1.2ct, H, SI1 was around $17K). They showed me how even in dim lighthing, these are amazing.

I will call Jon.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 2/23/2008 7:20:37 PM
Author: narly_1
Thanks SG, I will call Jon. I did not realize he was in NYC.....I think it wont be a problem taking my GF there....she lives across the Hudson in West New York...lol...coinky-dinky I guess.

I did see the Memoire setting. Very pretty but I was floored by the price. It would kill my RBC budget.

Also, FOR THE FIRST TIME, I saw the Hearts on Fire diamonds...WOOW! I saw them through a scope and man oh man...they are beautiful. They were AGS000 stones! A little pricey (1.2ct, H, SI1 was around $17K). They showed me how even in dim lighthing, these are amazing.

I will call Jon.

Glad you saw a decent cut diamond! Jon will have stones that easily compare, and possibly beat them.

 

[narly_1]

I have something to share. When I was in Asheville, I stopped by at a jewelry store in Battery Park owned by a South African gentleman. He was very nice and educated me on something that I wanted to share.

He had a diamond tester, a probe that when touched on a diamond shows a green light confirming that the stone is a diamond. Interestingly, he cautioned me to make sure that I also check a stone with a Moissanite tester. To my amazement, he touched the probe to a Moissnaite and it glowed green as if the stone is a diamond! He told me to be sure that I should demand that the stone be touched by a Moissanite probe also. If it is a real diamiond, the moissanite probe will glow RED. So, a mossanite can test up as a diamond but not vice versa.

Wow.

 

[narly_1]

Hello fellow diamond-family...

I am attaching 2 pics...one is a GIA cert for a round brilliant and the other is the actual pic of the round brilliant. This is a diamond available with Leigh Jay Nacht who owns www.antiqueengagementrings.com. He is really a nice person and I have a few posts here that spoke well of him. This diamond is available within my budget and will allow me to give my gf the size of diamond i was wanting to give her.

Please tell me if you can see anything in the specs that is a showstopper or in the pic that in your trained eyes is strange or aberrant.

I love all of you and I am blessed for the education, suggestions and help you have given me.

P.S. I have yet to call GOG.

 

[narly_1]

This is the second pic. On his website mentioned above, he has a different diamond in the settijng I liked. He can replace it with the stone on the left. The stone on the right (currently in setting) js an OEC which is I, SI2. The stone on the right (that I like) is an RB, H, SI2. Curiously, the pic of the diamond shows a fairly large culet but the cert, if you notice, shows a zero culet. It seems like the pic repesents another OEC cut diamond but the cert is that of a RB....confused here...

Please comment.

 

[narly_1]

Here is the stone:

 

[Ellen]

With that crown and pavillion angle, I wouldn't even begin to consider it. It's what is called a steep/deep. If you do a search on here, you'll get lots of info on what that actually means.

And just curious, what was he asking?

 

[narly_1]

He is asking $19K for the H, SI2 with the setting. I am attaching another diamond diagram. Would this be a steep/deep also?

 

[Ellen]

narly, sorry I didn''t see this when you posted last. Just remembered I asked you and hadn''t seen an answer so I went looking for it.

Yes, the other stone is steep/deep too. And the table is larger than you want. Ideally look for 54-58ish.

Diamonds in the spec range of the first start out at around 16,500, not sure what the setting would run, don''t know how simple or elaborate it is.

Ask the jeweler to find you AGS stones with a zero in light performance. That will make it much easier to get a decent stone, than trying to figure out what is acceptable with GIA.