I need help, help and more help!!

[helent]

Hello I am a newbie who has been spending way too much time on this website!! This year I am celebrating my 15th wedding anniversary as well as one of those birthdays with an "0" in it - aaagh! My lovely husband has offered to buy me a ring to help celebrate both occasions and given we have had some major challenges over the 15 years I really appreciate the opportunity to spoil myself though I must admit I feel a little guilty. Anyway I have found the process of picking a daimond both exciting and stressful as I am really worried that I am going to make the wrong decision. I hope you will have some time to give me some thoughts on the following two stones and please do let me know if neither are any good - I really am a novice!

Diamond #1
Report Type: GIA Diamond Grading Report
Round Brilliant
Measurements: 7.03 - 7.08x4.24 mm
Carat Weight: 1.27
Color Grade: E
Clarity Grade: VS2
Cut Grade: Excellent
Proportions:
Depth: 60.1 %
Table: 59 %
Crown Angle: 33.5°
Pavilion Angle: 41.0°
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Diamond #2
Report Type: Auscert
Round Brilliant
Measurements: 7.37 - 7.41x4.53mm
Carat Weight: 1.520
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Proportions:
Depth: I don''t think I have this
Table: 57.7 %
Crown Angle: 34.9°
Pavilion Angle: 40.9°
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted
Culet: 0.5%
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: Medium to Strong

I would like to thank you in advance for you thoughts.

 

[Lorelei]

Helen welcome

Firstly congratulations on your 0 birthday and anniversary!

Secondly don't feel guilty - you deserve it! The best thing would be to read the tutorials under knowledge as you are a novice ( which we all were at one time) and learn about cut. Cut is of the greatest importance when it comes to diamond beauty. I wouldn't choose either of these diamonds. My reasons are that on the first the table is a tad too large at 59% - good choice is around 54 - 58, the crown and pavillion angles could be tighter although this might still be a pretty diamond. However it did score well on the Cut Advisor - a 1.4!

The second 's proportions look better, but we don't have the depth which is needed. If you look under tools, you will see the Holloway Cut Advisor - you can plug in the numbers of your diamond and it will give you an idea of how well the diamond could perform, most useful. The GIA cert is great, don't know anything about the other. Have you seen these diamonds? Don't underestimate the importance of your own eyes, but if you are buying online you really need more info to help decide. See if the vendor has any cut info on the diamonds such as a Sarin Report, Idealscope Images etc as this will help.

Take your time, once you start to learn it clicks into place - the various components of a diamond need to work together to produce the best light performance. Also don't use vendor labels such as Ideal Cut, Premium etc to rely on cut quality, each diamond needs to be taken on a case by case basis. I will find you my idea of a well cut diamond to show you, this might give you a point of reference so you can see what to look for.

Just had a quick look - this will give you an idea of what to look for.
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-2045516.htm# Actually this looks like a great SI2!

Also I take it your colour requirements are for a colourless to near colourless? You can drop to a G, H I or even J and still have a very white diamond with a great cut and good cert. Also with clarity, as you can see some SI2's can be great buys and very clean.

Also here is the tutorial link to start you off, just work through the topics on the left. Time spent learning, especially about cut is time you will be forever thankful you found - every time you look at your diamond.
Hope this helps!

 

[Rosierock]

Hi Helen,
I''m in a very similar situation as you with the # birthday and 12.5 years of marriage, we too are upgrading. This is just my opinion that I''m sure will be contrary to many diehard diamond buffs. It seems to me that to get a sizable very highly graded diamond with ALL the right stuff you might have to take out a second mortgage! don''t discount how you feel about the stone even if some of the stats are not in the perfect zone. If you LOVE the diamond I think you should get it and enjoy it to the fullest!

 

[helent]

Dear Lorelei - thank you for your warm welcome and advice. I have actually been through the knowledge section of the website a few times so thought I was on the right track but I guess it is back to the drawing board! I have seen both of the stones that I asked about and I found the E VS2 much more sparkly. The F SI1 was also a beautiful stone but it didn''t seem to be as bright and I wondered if that was a result of the inclusion reflecting around the stone? Is that what inclusions do or do they only impact on the section of the stone they are in?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I''m thinking the strong florescence might be making it not quite as clear and bright.

 

[Lorelei]

Helen as Dseeks says, it is possible that the flourescence could be making the diamond look cloudy - however it is very rare. One of our experts says that in 30 years of selling diamonds he has only seen a handful with strong flourescence which looked oily or milky. In general inclusions don't affect light path unless you are talking about a very low clarity diamond such as an I2 or I3. If the grade setter for the SI1 is clouds then this could do it, but generally an SI1 is a nice clarity grade and there shouldn't be a problem in most instances. Depending on the inclusion sometimes it can affect the brilliance of the area of the diamond where it is located, but this again is rare and more the thing you would see in the I clarities. It's hard to pinpoint exactly what you are seeing, but it is probably the cut differences although I prefer the measurements on this diamond to the other. Sometimes a diamond can look better on paper but when you compare with one with " lesser" numbers it doesn't look as good! Your eyes are the deciding factor and if you can see the diamonds in person then that is the way to choose - after all you are the one who will be wearing it and it is what is pleasing to your eyes which counts. If you would like, find out what the inclusions are in the SI1 and also when viewing diamonds see if the vendor will let you look at them away from the store lighting. Diamonds look different according to the light they are in so view in sunlight ( important with flourescent stones to check for cloudiness) normal daylight etc to see which one you prefer.

Helen - at the end of it all the diamond which makes your heart sing is the one for you - even if the numbers aren't as Ideal as they could be.

Also this chart might be useful. You can use it to check the diameter measurements of each diamond to make sure they face up the size they should. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mm-to-carat-stone-conversion-chart.17578/

 

[helent]

Could you please explain what the outcome is when the table is too large? I am a bit confused how the E VS2 can do well on the HCA but not be a good diamond to think about. I take on board your advice of going for what appeals to the eye but at the same time I would like to know I have spent my money well. I live in a city with a population of 1.8 million so there are not many diamond merchants and of those there are a number who simply refuse to show the GIA or equivalnt report until the diamond has been purchased. I have now thankfully found a merchant who will provide the reports to me but I just don''t think the merchants here want the public to be well educated. I don''t seem to be getting good answers to my questions and am starting to think I should be buying on line though am anxious about not seeing the stone first.

The other question I have is regarding colour. My engagement ring has two 30 point diamonds and a central stone which is a green saphire. At the time I was very keen on the idea of past, present and future and didn''t like solitaires but boy do I feel differently now! The ring is in a rub - over style set in yellow gold and I have always been disappointed that the diamonds which are G VVS2 do not appear white. I have looked back on the information I received on the ring at the time and basically all it says is the colour and clarity and nothing at all about the measurments so it may be that the diamonds are not well cut though I have always received complements on the ring even all these years later. Could it be the setting that is making the stones appear less bright? I have always been a bit disappointed about the colour so was wanting to go whiter this time and have the stone set in platnum but maybe I am basing my colour decision on the poor choice of my engagement setting.

Sorry I am asking so many questions!

 

[whatmeworry]

Hi Helen, Congrats on you birthday and anniversary

Here''s my take

don''t focus on the table%. Look at the pavilion/crown angles. Number 1 has a better angle combination than Number 2. I know you don''t have the depth% on #2 but plug in depths of 59,60,61, and 62 for Number 2 on the HCA. You will see on the HCA advisor that #1 gets Ex/Ex for light return/fire wheras #2 gets VG/VG no matter what depth you put in.

Also #1''s angles place it in the middle of the AGS0 candidates whereas #2''s angles are always outside the AGS0 candidate box no matter what depth you put in.

HCA and AGS agree with what your eyes have told you, #1 is the better cut.

I can''t picture what type of setting you have but I suspect cut has a lot to do why your sidestones aren''t white/bright. Have you looked at the sidestones in the side by side with the two diamonds you are considering?

That''s unacceptable to not be shown the cert when you are deciding on a diamond.

Some of the online merchants here will allow you to see a diamond at an appraiser without having to purchase it, but you will have to pay for 2 way shipping if the diamond doesn''t do it for you.

Good luck.

 

[blodthecat]

Hi Helen,

I know you have reservations about buying online, but from what you have said, I think you will be able to gleen more information from the online vendors. And if you want to make an informed decision when buying, I think it might be the way to go.

Do you know what size of diamond you are looking for?

Blod

BTW....We don't have any guilt on Pricescope. Just remember you derserve it

Happy birthday!!!

 

[Lorelei]

Actually I prefer the angles on number 2 . The angles are ever so slightly outside the ideal but closer than the first for my preference. The table measurements at 59% are slightly too large - you will get more intense flashes of white light and brilliance with a larger table generally, an advantage is that it can make the diamond look bigger but in preference smaller is better IMO - I prefer a max of 58% at the most. Also don''t take the HCA as gospel - it is a useful tool for weeding out lesser performers but not a guarantee of a great diamond. The table size has to be considered when choosing a diamond, the crown and pav angles are very important but EVERYTHING needs considering as the components work together.

Now we don''t want to confuse things for you as it can be off putting by getting too indepth at this stage. The diamonds you have chosen are a far better cut that most, not what I would pick but everyone who has some knowledge has a preference. In the end it is up to your eyes as I said before which diamond is the best - numbers are forgotten when it is on your finger and maybe the shallow/ steep combo on the first is more pleasing to your eyes - nothing wrong with that. It can work well. Above all don''t get too hung up on the numbers. We at PS tend to go a bit overboard with them - however....we haven''t seen these diamonds and you have. Go with what looks good to you!

With the other ring, I would imagine it is the rub over YG setting that is throwing colour onto those diamonds, also it could be cut too. Maybe a reset might be in order sometime - it won''t be the G colour which is yellow at all.

Hope this helps!

 

[helent]

Thank you everyone for your comments. I have made the decision to go with the 1.27 and look forward to showing it off soon. I feel a bit light headed now the decision has been made - is that normal?!! I decided in the end to go with my eyes which everyone seems to agree is the best approach as I don''t think I was going to be offered anything better at this time in my price range. I have also decided that when it comes time for the upgrade - I am thinking 2 carats sounds good - that I am going to seriously consider buying online as I really wasn''t that impressed with the merchants I have dealt with. Do the on line merchants all ship internationally as I am in Australia?

 

[mrssalvo]

most online vendors will ship internationally..