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nesta

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 20, 2007
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Hello,

I have the opportunity to purchase a round 1.71ct F color SI2 "clarity enhanced" diamond for $3800. Is this a good deal? I might pick this up. I have done research on the CE diamonds, and wondered if $3800 for this size stone (1.71ct) with F color is a good deal? The clarity after enhancement is SI2. It was a I1. There are no visible inclusions at all w/out a scope, and man oh man it shines. just not certain from an investment standpoint though. Is $3800 ok? Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this investment and CE stones in general. i think it''s a STEAL, but let me know if I''m wrong please.
 
Speaking only for myself, dont purchase an ering as an investment because honestly, the only person who will really value it is the owner. You will likely never be able to re sell it for anywhere near what you paid for it. And if you ever wanted to sell or trade it, I doubt you could if it is CE. I would rather have a much smaller, higher quality natural stone. Are you looking at this because you think you could get more bang for your buck? How does your gf feel about an enhanced stone? If it was me, I wouldn''t be very happy about that. As I said, I''d rather have a smaller natural stone...
 
Thanks for the reply. She actually found the stone herself. I''m the one worried about investment puposes. I hadnt heard of Ce until now. YES, its more bang for the buck. She wants 1.5+. Thanks again
 
Help me out here guys and gals... Can i get a 1.5+ diamond of at least G color and SI2 clarity for under $5000? Or is this enhanced stone the best I can get for my money right now. The CE is 1.71 F SI2 for $3800. The jewler swears he is giving me a break on the stone even though its been enhanced. Your opinions please please please
 
Date: 5/20/2007 7:38:32 PM
Author: nesta
Help me out here guys and gals... Can i get a 1.5+ diamond of at least G color and SI2 clarity for under $5000? Or is this enhanced stone the best I can get for my money right now. The CE is 1.71 F SI2 for $3800. The jewler swears he is giving me a break on the stone even though its been enhanced. Your opinions please please please
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Honestly? The best you can get for your $ right now would be a slightly smaller (1 carat), perfectly cut stone with an upgrade policy.

I would NEVER buy a clarity enhanced diamond. Risk factors with filling coming out, the fact that there is virtually no resale value at all, durability issues...the list goes on.

ETA: Only you can decide whether the stone is worth the price. Do you have ANY info on the cut of the stone? Have you plugged in the #'s on here to see if it scores well on HCA? The CUT is the most important factor here and we have no info. So without that, I would say don't buy it.

But no, you can't get a 1.5 carat non-enhanced stone for $5,000.
 
Date: 5/20/2007 7:38:32 PM
Author: nesta
Can i get a 1.5+ diamond of at least G color and SI2 clarity for under $5000?
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Not a super-ideal or ideal cut stone, IMO. Your 1.71 c.e. stone might be the *biggest* stone you can get for your budget ... but there are tradeoffs to consider.

1. it will not sparkle as much or be as lively or appear as white as a comperable Super Ideal or Ideal cut.
2. it will not hold its value as well as natural stones
3. cleaning the stone over time can remove the "filler" and expose the flaws once again
4. it will not be certified by GIA or AGS
5. you will probably not be able to trade it in for a larger/better stone if you change your mind or experience the dreaded but common phenom of "shrinkage".

If your fiance understood how much more lively & dynamic a better cut stone would be -- or all the risks of CE stones ... she might not be as set on SIZE.

Is there a reason you have to decide this instant - or do you have more time to educate yourselves & weigh some options. A 5K budget is nothing to sneeze at -- you can get a lovely stone for that $.
 
Thanks for the reply... The CE measurements are 7.61 - 7.65 x 4.73. Are these measurements good? If I bought it for $3800, and wanted to sell it a few years later for say $2,800, COULD I?

On another note: I did see some non CE 1.5+ stones for under $5000. How about something like this: http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-286769.htm.

More help is appreciated all......... I need to make a decision
 
Clarity enhancement by fracture filling does NOT change (enhance) the actual clarity of the stone, only the "apparent" clarity - it''s still an I1 clarity grade, and any such representation to the contrary is MISrepresentation.
 
Gary, I realize that the enhancement is to the eye only.
 
Date: 5/20/2007 8:05:49 PM
Author: nesta
Gary, you told me nothing. I realize that the enhancement is to the visible eye only.
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Well, he told you that if your seller is representing this as an SI2 clarity grade now, he isn''t telling the truth. It may LOOK like an SI2, but it isn''t.

I honestly don''t think you''re going to get the answers you''re looking for here. For the most part we''re all about quality and value over size (to an extent) here.

To answer your other question, you could most likely NOT sell your stone down the road for $2800. Natural no enhancement diamonds don''t even have that good of a resale value for a consumer, so CE stones would be even worse.

You CANNOT look at this as an investment, and if you are even considering upgrading in a few years, I would buy a non-ce stone from a vendor with an upgrade policy.
 
Forgot to mention this CE Diamond comes with a cert from http://gemlab.com/. Anyone heard of them?
 
Date: 5/20/2007 8:17:41 PM
Author: nesta
Forgot to mention this CE Diamond comes with a cert from http://gemlab.com/. Anyone heard of them?
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Unless it''s from GIA or AGS (both places that refuse to certify clarity enhanced stones) the certs aren''t reliable enough to mean anything.
 
CE diamonds have a place and they might just be right for you.
the biggest danger is having the ring worked on, everyone who works on the ring needs to know its CE.
Just because its CE doesn''t mean its always badly cut also, an aset or ideal scope image would answer that, if your seeing the stone in person you can buy one at www.ideal-scope.com
I know CE isnt right for me but it maybe for you.
 
Personally, I rather have a really well-cut smaller stone with an upgrade policy. A well-cut stone that isn''t enhanced will really sparkle and you can upgrade over time if you purchase from jamesallen.com, whiteflash, goodoldgold.com. I would drop in color to an I/SI and get a stone that is about 1.2 carats or so.
 
Date: 5/20/2007 8:42:12 PM
Author: kcoursolle
Personally, I rather have a really well-cut smaller stone with an upgrade policy. A well-cut stone that isn''t enhanced will really sparkle and you can upgrade over time if you purchase from jamesallen.com, whiteflash, goodoldgold.com. I would drop in color to an I/SI and get a stone that is about 1.2 carats or so.
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I second this. I too would personally have a smaller AGS Ideal stone that is completely natural. But I guess you get what you pay for.

Also, it''s a bad idea to look at diamonds as investments. I know this is starting to sound like a broken record.
 
Date: 5/20/2007 7:45:21 PM
Author: neatfreak


Date: 5/20/2007 7:38:32 PM
Author: nesta
Help me out here guys and gals... Can i get a 1.5+ diamond of at least G color and SI2 clarity for under $5000? Or is this enhanced stone the best I can get for my money right now. The CE is 1.71 F SI2 for $3800. The jewler swears he is giving me a break on the stone even though its been enhanced. Your opinions please please please
Click to expand...

But no, you can't get a 1.5 carat non-enhanced stone for $5,000.
Click to expand...
hey neatfreak,

this looks like a 1.5 carat non-enhanced stone for $5,000 to me. http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-286769.htm What's wrong with it?
 
Date: 5/20/2007 9:00:59 PM
Author: nesta
Date: 5/20/2007 7:45:21 PM

Author: neatfreak



Date: 5/20/2007 7:38:32 PM

Author: nesta

Help me out here guys and gals... Can i get a 1.5+ diamond of at least G color and SI2 clarity for under $5000? Or is this enhanced stone the best I can get for my money right now. The CE is 1.71 F SI2 for $3800. The jewler swears he is giving me a break on the stone even though its been enhanced. Your opinions please please please
Click to expand...


But no, you can''t get a 1.5 carat non-enhanced stone for $5,000.
Click to expand...

hey neatfreak,


this looks like a 1.5 carat non-enhanced stone for $5,000 to me. http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-286769.htm What''s wrong with it?
Click to expand...

1. It doesn''t have enough info on the cut to see if it''s good or not.
2. It''s certified by EGL so I bet it''s at a minimum an H/I1, but it could be worse. They are known for being off a few grades, especially if it isn''t EGL usa.
3. You need to ask if it''s eyeclean
4. There are no images, idealscopes, etc. to see if the light return is good.

If you''re really set on a 1.5, by all means call Whiteflash on Monday and get more information on the stone. But it''s just not what I would do if it were my money and you''re asking for all our opinions here and don''t seem to want to listen to them.
 
Date: 5/20/2007 9:00:59 PM
Author: nesta
Date: 5/20/2007 7:45:21 PM

Author: neatfreak



Date: 5/20/2007 7:38:32 PM

Author: nesta

Help me out here guys and gals... Can i get a 1.5+ diamond of at least G color and SI2 clarity for under $5000? Or is this enhanced stone the best I can get for my money right now. The CE is 1.71 F SI2 for $3800. The jewler swears he is giving me a break on the stone even though its been enhanced. Your opinions please please please
Click to expand...


But no, you can''t get a 1.5 carat non-enhanced stone for $5,000.
Click to expand...

hey neatfreak,


this looks like a 1.5 carat non-enhanced stone for $5,000 to me. http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-286769.htm What''s wrong with it?
Click to expand...

Ok I''m not neatfreak but it''s an EGL cert which is less strict than AGS and GIA. It is also not inhouse so I don''t think you can trade it up with whiteflash...and I don''t think they''ll be able to tell you whether or not it''s eyeclean.
 
neatfreak i respect and appreciate your input I really do. I''ll look at maybe bring the ct weight down some.

I just dont understand why people get so bent out of shape over CE diamonds because of a microscopic particle placed in the diamond to make it look better. These same people will eat Wendy''s, Taco Bell, and anything else known to man thats processed, but a processed diamond????? Oh NO. Its a "Yeah my diamond is perfect, but I look and feel terrible" attitude.

Point being there are alot of things that should be 100% unprocessed and natural other than diamonds people!

Is it true 90% or gemstones are enhanced?
 
Date: 5/20/2007 9:26:04 PM
Author: nesta
neatfreak i respect and appreciate your input I really do. I'll look at maybe bring the ct weight down some.


I just dont understand why people get so bent out of shape over CE diamonds because of a microscopic particle placed in the diamond to make it look better. These same people will eat Wendy's, Taco Bell, and anything else known to man thats processed, but a processed diamond????? Oh NO. Its a 'Yeah my diamond is perfect, but I look and feel terrible' attitude.


Point being there are alot of things that should be 100% unprocessed and natural other than diamonds people!


Is it true 90% or gemstones are enhanced?
Click to expand...

If you think CE diamonds are the same as regular diamonds, think again. We have all spent a lot of time on this thread trying to make you understand that there ARE other issues. Durability is the biggest one I can think of, but trade in value is another important thing to consider.

Not to mention the fact that you have NO information on cut for this stone. THAT is the biggest factor for why we are telling you not to jump on this stone without more information.

If ANYONE were to come on here and tell us what you did (no cut info, bad cert, etc.), minus the CE part, we still would be giving the same advice, honestly. But add the CE part to the mix and it brings down the value of the diamond even more.

It's not a "better than you" thing, just a value for your money. We are ALL about the sparkle factor here, and you have not given us enough info about your stone to be able to properly evaluate it.

As for the "investment" thing, you sound like you are already thinking of upgrading in a few years, CE stones are NOT easily upgradeable and will NOT sell for big bucks at all. You'll be lucky if you can sell it at all.

We're just trying to get you to make what WE see as a better choice. If size is the most important factor to you, go for it. But put that thing next to an ideally cut diamond without CE and it will outshine it any day.
 
NeatFreak------All it said was the cut is Round Brilliant

And I do understand the issues with CE''s, but I dont think they outweight the price....
 
I have to DITTO neatfreak in her posts. Nesta, a lot of people have given you sage advice and we've all pretty much said the same thing over and over in each of our posts and you keep coming back to the same points:

1. No, you cannot sell your $3800 CE diamond in a few years for $2800. You'd be lucky to get a few hundred probably, if anyone even wanted a CE diamond second hand.

2. Diamond erings are not an investment unless you're buying the Taylor/Burton diamond or something like that...They simply dont hold "re-sale" value unless you buy from a shop/vendor with an upgrade policy that gives you full paid value if you upgrade with them in the future.

3. I dont think you will find even one person on PS who can tell you "go for it because it's bigger" because we all love the natural aspects of these magical stones and thus, an enhanced stone isn't "natural" since it's been essentially tampered with. If having the biggest diamond you can buy, regardless of whether or not it's been CE, is the most important thing to you...then you've made your decision and there is only one thing left to do.

4. You cant really compare processed fast food with diamonds. But since you are, can I say that I only eat organic food whenever possible, never Taco Bell or Wendy's.

After all our comments, if you still want to buy it, go ahead and buy it. But know that it's a keeper and you're not going to be re-selling it in the future. And if you do get it, I'm sure we'd all love to see it, or whatever you end up with.
1.gif
 
How about a fairly clean I1 clarity grade from goodoldgold.com? They can help you fine one that is near clean or able to be covered by a prong and they are an excellent value. In addition, they will still be covered by their upgrade policy so that you can change over time.

My main concern with you buying a CE diamond is that she will dislike it over time and it will be hard to re-sell or trade up. I think CE diamonds have a purpose, but I''m not sure they are great for e-ring stones. I''d consider one for a pendant or something.
 
Date: 5/20/2007 9:51:00 PM
Author: nesta
NeatFreak------All it said was the cut is Round Brilliant


And I do understand the issues with CE's, but I dont think they outweight the price....
Click to expand...

No info on cut means it's probably NOT a good cut. If you're looking at poorly cut stones, with a lower than F color (because I am willing to bet that if you get this stone appraised it will appraise lower than an F), you can get a non-ce 1.5 stone for less than $5,000.

I'm only saying it one more time. If your GF brings a poorly cut, CE stone, and compares it next to a friend's ideally cut stone, there will be a BIG difference in look and sparkle. Trust us.

But if SIZE is your major issue, which it seems to be here, then by all means, get the size you need.

What I would recommend is go back, ask about the specs, and see if the cert has any measurements for depth, crown, pavillion, etc. If so, bring those back here, plug them into the HCA (under tools, above) and THEN we can see if it's a good cut. If it's an ideally cut stone, I would be much more likely to tell you to go ahead.

ETA: Kcoursolle also has an excellent idea. I would recommend that over the stone you are considering ANY DAY because you KNOW it would be a great cut.
 
Again, I reiterate what I have said about non-reliable certifications. "Ideal" means nothing unless the numbers agree with that classification. I can't help you analyze the numbers without AT LEAST the depth, table, crown angle, and pavillion angle.

If you can get that info from abazias, bring it back here, and plug the numbers into the HCA. Viola, you'll know whether it's really an ideal cut. You should also ask for an idealscope and Sarin. If it were ME I would work with Good Old Gold or Whiteflash any day over abazias. You'll get better customer service and an easier time picking one out.

Also need to ask the vendor if it's eyeclean, maybe SI2's aren't especially at that price point.

Again, the color is probably off at least one grade and possibly two, and the clarity might be as well.

Please read up on this stuff or at least listen to what we're telling you about it.


ETA: I HIGHLY suggest you read/watch some of the tutorials listed under KNOWLEDGE above. They will help you a lot and AFTER you read/watch them, then come back and ask questions. But please do it, it will give you a lot of information.
 
OK Grasshopper...you are learning
28.gif
... This one looks much better but it is an EGL "Israel" and EGL Israel is known for over-grading their stones so your G is probably more like an H-J (according to those in the know here), and your SI2 could well be more like an I1/I2 or less. I dont have a modern round brilliant cut so I cant comment on the angles/%s etc. but someone else will. Can you look for something now with a GIA/AGS certification? Because both of those are really more of a sure thing, meaning if they say its a G/SI2, that's what it really is.

BTW, are you within driving distance to NYC area? If so, you can go to some of the vendors here (ERD and GOG) in person to see and compare stones.
 
The only diamonds that can be legitmately be called "ideal" cut are thosed graded by the AGS. GIA uses the term excellent. These are the top grades, in cut, by the two best labs. To evaluate a diamond, we need the table size, depth, crown angle and pavillion angle. It would also help to have a description, from the grading report, of the other details describing the stone. It has been said before, people on this board value cut as a priority. You haven't provided us with enough information to help you evaluate the cut.
 
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