I need advice! and Congrats, ladies!

[AllieGator]

First off, a huge CONGRATULATIONS to everyone who''s been engaged! I think I''ve looked at everyone''s thread, but I''ve been busy and not on in forever (end of semester). Everyone''s rings look so beautiful, the proposals sound sweet, and it''s exciting that you get to become Brides in Waiting!

This isn''t LIW related, but I figured there enough students, and former students, who may have been through the situation I am in.

I''m taking a class this semester that meets once a week for a 2 1/2 hour lecture, and it has a strict attendance policy. The professor excuses one absence, but if you miss anymore, you''re out of luck.

I''ve had three absences this semester--all of which, with most professors, would be excused. The first two were medical (I had severe bronchitis, and brought a note from the doctor I saw. The second time, I had to get a chest x-ray, and the doctor didn''t allow me to put it off a day.)

So this past Monday, I was in a minor car accident--my BF was rearended, and we had to wait for two hours for the cops to come, so I missed the class. When I saw her today, I brought a copy of the accident report, but she rejected the absence as legitimate.

As it stands with her policy, my grade, which is an A right now, will drop to a C if she sticks to her policy of dropping a letter grade for each absence past the first one. I''ve done all of my work, received As on all of the exams, and have participated in every discussion.

Here''s my dilemma: I''d like to contest the grade. We have a process we can go through here, and if she does give me the C, I''d like to contest it. The problem is, she''s one of my professors that I''ll have throughout the rest of college, because she''s in my major. I don''t want to cause any hard feelings, since I will most likely have her for many more classes.

Do I contest the grade, or let it slide in hopes of keeping in her good graces?

Thanks so much, and Congratulations once again!

 

[Lauren8211]

Ehh.... Allie... that''s a toughie.

I guess the first thing I''ll ask is.. is this undergrad? Will a C take a serious hit on your GPA? How important is your GPA to your plans after school?

If a C could make or break you for grad/law school entry, I''d fight it.

If one C wouldn''t put a crushing blow on your academics, I''d take the hit and stay in her good graces.

 

[tlh]

it keeps eating my posts!!!

Okay, I''m sorry you are going through this, but you knew her policy. (And it sounds like you''ve missed 2 classes on top of the freebie???) If you were a passenger in a vehicle, and were not injured, you should have found a way to get to class. Esp, if this were a minor fender bender. If you were injured, you should provide her w/ your medical records and contest. If not, I think you may be out of luck. (A passenger can be amended or provided by the driver of the vehcile in a report.)

Look at it this way, if this were your employer, and it was a client briefing or court appearance you were supposed to be at... and not class, would you have made every effort to attend class? Would you have called a friend, a cab, to get there? What if your job was on the line, and you knew your failure to show up would result in termination as according to company policy? Or would you have done the exact same thing you did? You knew her policy, and took a gamble in not showing up.

If you would have not behaved differently, go ahead and contest it. But just ask, could you convincingly argue the counterpoints that you HAD to be there? best wishes.

 

[Porridge]

Date: 4/29/2009 4:07:17 PM
Author: tlh
it keeps eating my posts!!!


Okay, I''m sorry you are going through this, but you knew her policy. (And it sounds like you''ve missed 2 classes on top of the freebie???) If you were a passenger in a vehicle, and were not injured, you should have found a way to get to class. Esp, if this were a minor fender bender. If you were injured, you should provide her w/ your medical records and contest. If not, I think you may be out of luck. (A passenger can be amended or provided by the driver of the vehcile in a report.)


Look at it this way, if this were your employer, and it was a client briefing or court appearance you were supposed to be at... and not class, would you have made every effort to attend class? Would you have called a friend, a cab, to get there? What if your job was on the line, and you knew your failure to show up would result in termination as according to company policy? Or would you have done the exact same thing you did? You knew her policy, and took a gamble in not showing up.


If you would have not behaved differently, go ahead and contest it. But just ask, could you convincingly argue the counterpoints that you HAD to be there? best wishes.

Gotta agree with tlh here. FI is a college professor, and let me tell you the excuses get real old, real fast. I''m not saying you didn''t have a legitimate reason to miss these classes, but as tlh said, can you convincingly argue that you HAD to be there? For example, was the first doctors appointment impossible to reschedule? Seeing as you weren''t the driver, could you have given your statement later?

You''re obviously a really good student. Will this one C make a big difference? Might be worth just giving a sincere apology and explanations again, and accepting the C to keep her on your good side for the rest of college.

 

[AllieGator]

Date: 4/29/2009 4:26:20 PM
Author: Porridge

Date: 4/29/2009 4:07:17 PM

Author: tlh

it keeps eating my posts!!!



Okay, I''m sorry you are going through this, but you knew her policy. (And it sounds like you''ve missed 2 classes on top of the freebie???) If you were a passenger in a vehicle, and were not injured, you should have found a way to get to class. Esp, if this were a minor fender bender. If you were injured, you should provide her w/ your medical records and contest. If not, I think you may be out of luck. (A passenger can be amended or provided by the driver of the vehcile in a report.)



Look at it this way, if this were your employer, and it was a client briefing or court appearance you were supposed to be at... and not class, would you have made every effort to attend class? Would you have called a friend, a cab, to get there? What if your job was on the line, and you knew your failure to show up would result in termination as according to company policy? Or would you have done the exact same thing you did? You knew her policy, and took a gamble in not showing up.



If you would have not behaved differently, go ahead and contest it. But just ask, could you convincingly argue the counterpoints that you HAD to be there? best wishes.

Gotta agree with tlh here. FI is a college professor, and let me tell you the excuses get real old, real fast. I''m not saying you didn''t have a legitimate reason to miss these classes, but as tlh said, can you convincingly argue that you HAD to be there? For example, was the first doctors appointment impossible to reschedule? Seeing as you weren''t the driver, could you have given your statement later?


You''re obviously a really good student. Will this one C make a big difference? Might be worth just giving a sincere apology and explanations again, and accepting the C to keep her on your good side for the rest of college.

You guys totally have legitimate points...and I can answer them.

The first absence, there was nothing I could do about it--I was so sick that I could barely get out of bed, but I dragged myself to the doctor so that I could get the excuse. It turned out I had severe bronchitis, so there wasn''t really anything I could do to get better in the span of the two hours between my appointment and my class. AND this professor has told us that if we are very sick, not to come to class.

The second, I had to get a chest x-ray, and I asked if I could go the next day, since I didn''t have any classes. They told me it was really important that i went that day, so I pretty much had to. Once again, got the excuse.

The accident--it occured on the highway, and we weren''t close enough to an exit for me to safely walk off. I did try to call a cab, but they wouldn''t pick me up on the side of the highway. Most of my friends don''t have cars, and the ones that did I could not get a hold of, or they couldn''t come out and get me.

It''s not so much that I can argue that I had to be there, it''s more that there wasn''t a way for me to actually be at class.

The thing is, if this wasn''t an important grade, I would let it slip. But I''m looking at law school or a PhD program, and this class is in my major, plus it''s an easy class, so a C would look really bad. And, if I didn''t know my grade was so high, I wouldn''t fight it so hard, but I think it''s a little unfair that I earned an A, but due to a technicality (and things I couldn''t get out of), I''ll get a C.

Thanks for the advice, everyone!

 

[purselover]

You should totally fight it! You have very ligitimate excuses and got all A''s, you shouldn''t let an unfair C get in the way of grad school. Just as a sidenote I think her attendance policy is dumb, if you can get the work done and do well who cares how many classes you miss?

 

[bluebell]

Since you seem to have legitimate excuses I would try to fight it!!
Last semester I received I grade that I didn''t deserve, the professor graded us on something he never assigned and was based on on much you flirted with him, but I didn''t fight it and I really regret not doing so. It ruined my 4.0 and was a class for my major.

 

[sammyj]

Date: 4/29/2009 4:52:22 PM
Author: purselover
You should totally fight it! You have very ligitimate excuses and got all A''s, you shouldn''t let an unfair C get in the way of grad school. Just as a sidenote I think her attendance policy is dumb, if you can get the work done and do well who cares how many classes you miss?

I agree. If my professors had an attendance policy I would have failed university!

If this grade is really important to you then I think you should fight it. If your professor holds a grudge then that''s just ridiculous. Just keep working hard and let your grades speak for themselves. Good luck!

 

[Porridge]

Ah, I see. How annoying! I hope she understands.

 

[absolut_blonde]

Personally, I think her policy is ridiculous.

There were a few required classes (like intro computer science) that I missed a fair amount of because I honestly did NOT need to be there. I''m totally opposed to attendance policies in general, it''s your money & your grades - FORCING people to be there is crazy to me, I think the prof should aim to have rewarding and interesting clases so that people will WANT to attend.

But at any rate, I think that your excuse IS legit. Could you speak to someone higher up in the dept or a guidance counselor (not therapist type but the ones who help you plan your classes) and ask about what they would do as a hypothetical? Not to get her in trouble - don''t have to name names - but maybe they could shed light on how to proceed. I do think she''s being unreasonable.

 

[katamari]

Hi Allie. I teach at a university, so maybe I can help with some perspective on this. First, does the syllabus state anything about circumstances or options to adjust the syllabus at the instructors discretion?

The syllabus is technically a legally binding contract to both parties. If you choose to remain in the course, you agree to the terms of the course and forfeit your right to challenge them. Likewise, your instructor must also honor the terms of the course and if any are changed, she would be held liable. I have heard this speech many times from our college legal department and, while it hinges on state law, my guess is that it would transfer anywhere. The only exception would be if the syllabus states that your professor has the authority to make exceptions or changes to the syllabus.

I don''t think you are necessarily stuck, though, if this is not the case. First, it doesn''t sound like you have talked to her. That would be my first suggestion. Don''t go complaining about the policy or stating that you feel you deserve exceptions. But, instead, focus on your willingness to accept the policy and see if she has suggestions for you, given that this score will impact your future goals and with how you define success in the course. It might be possible for her to let you withdrawal from the course (even if it is past your university deadline), allow you to retake the course with a replacement grade, assign you an incomplete until you make up the classes you missed, etc. I would also have a frank discussion with her about why you didn''t come to her after the second miss. If one of my students didn''t see me after they missed a class that slipped them in B range, but did when it got to C range, I would find it a little suspect. Also, you stated that you only had to have the xray the same day as your class. That doesn''t make it avoidable, in my understanding, so you will want to be honest about that in your discussion with her, too.

If you go to the university or college without approaching her first, I do believe there would be hard feelings. I also think that going to the university or college would be pointless because of definition of the syllabus as a contract. I encourage you to be proactive, though, and hope it ends up alright.

 

[katamari]

Date: 4/29/2009 7:55:09 PM
Author: absolut_blonde
Personally, I think her policy is ridiculous.

There were a few required classes (like intro computer science) that I missed a fair amount of because I honestly did NOT need to be there. I''m totally opposed to attendance policies in general, it''s your money & your grades - FORCING people to be there is crazy to me, I think the prof should aim to have rewarding and interesting clases so that people will WANT to attend.

There is more to the college experience than learning materials, though. I have had far more experiences working jobs where I didn''t need to be there but I could never just leave and expect to keep my job. And, I certainly couldn''t have expected to be paid similarly to the workers who did stay.

I personally don''t use or like mandatory attendance policies in educational settings, either. But, they do exist in almost all other aspects of life.

 

[mrscushion]

I think your excuses are very legitimate. I think you should contest the grade, but always remain completely polite and professional. I would also speak with her before contesting (to let her know you are going to, and ask her to not hold it against you, that you need this grade for graduate school) as well as afterwards, regardless of the outcome.

 

[mrscushion]

Date: 4/29/2009 8:00:27 PM
Author: katamari
If you go to the university or college without approaching her first, I do believe there would be hard feelings. I also think that going to the university or college would be pointless because of definition of the syllabus as a contract. I encourage you to be proactive, though, and hope it ends up alright.

I agree, don''t officially contest before speaking with her first. I also agree that you could ask her if there was any other way you could maintain your A grade, be it through extra work, etc. All of this indicates you are making a good effort.

 

[absolut_blonde]

Date: 4/29/2009 8:03:03 PM
Author: katamari

Date: 4/29/2009 7:55:09 PM
Author: absolut_blonde
Personally, I think her policy is ridiculous.

There were a few required classes (like intro computer science) that I missed a fair amount of because I honestly did NOT need to be there. I''m totally opposed to attendance policies in general, it''s your money & your grades - FORCING people to be there is crazy to me, I think the prof should aim to have rewarding and interesting clases so that people will WANT to attend.

There is more to the college experience than learning materials, though. I have had far more experiences working jobs where I didn''t need to be there but I could never just leave and expect to keep my job. And, I certainly couldn''t have expected to be paid similarly to the workers who did stay.

I personally don''t use or like mandatory attendance policies in educational settings, either. But, they do exist in almost all other aspects of life.

You''re getting paid at work. On the flip side, you''re paying to be in class. On the whole, I totally understand that college is about the experience and not just the degree but I suppose I''m somewhat biased because, like I said, my program had a couple courses that were honestly a waste of time.

I''ve also noticed that, in my personal experience, the only profs I ever had with mandatory attendance policies were also the worst profs. The most interesting, engaging profs- the ones whose classes I truly looked forward to each week- never did!

 

[AllieGator]

Thanks for the advice everyone!

What I''m planning on doing at this point is going to the registrar to see what the process is without naming names. After I find out, I''ll talk to her about it, and then proceed from there. If it seems like it''s going to be a very nasty process, then I probably won''t do it.

If all of these absences were my fault, I wouldn''t contest the grade, even though I think the policy is unfair. But since I really couldn''t control the absences, I think it''s kind of unfair that I get penalized for documented, unavoidable reasons.

Unfortunately, I can''t withdraw or take an incomplete in the class, because it''s a prerequisite to classes I''m taking next semester, so I have to have it done.

ps, Kama--I actually missed the class because of the x-ray, because they took me to the hospital about the time the class started, and I had to wait in radiology for two hours, because everyone''s kid broke their wrist that day (it was pretty sad to see them all crying). If I had just gotten the x-ray, and then been back on campus, I totally would have gone to class that day.

And absolut_blond, you''re kind of right...she''s not the best professor ever. We usually end up spending half the class listening to hear talk about things that have nothing to do with the course matter. So we''re wasting half of class time, anyway.

 

[KatM]

can you switch it to pass/fail? i know that i was able to do that pretty late in the semester, for up to 2 classes when i was in school. the grade has no impact on your gpa, though p/f might look a little weird on a transcript. if she is unwilling to budge, i would first visit the ombudsman for the school before officially contesting.