I Just Overpaid...What Can I Do?

[newbguy2008]

Hi,

Earlier this afternoon I placed a refundable 10% deposit on the diamond at a local jeweler that came highly referred from a number of my friends. I had compared the prices to BlueNile and a few other local stores and found it to be a fair price.

Just now I priced the diamond out on pricescope and to my horror I found the exact same diamond (same GIA certificate details and everything) on Whiteflash for 20% less than the price we agreed upon. And this was after some negotiation and being told that they were right at cost and couldn''t cut anything else off the price. Needless to say, I''m upset and a bit angry.

Can someone help me with a few questions?

1) Should I take my deposit back, or should I use this as an opportunity to negotiate the price down?

2) If I take my refund back, is it reasonable to purchase the diamond from Whiteflash as a loose diamond and take it into a local jewler and ask them to help with the setting?

Any advice here would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bruceb916]

You can do one of two things:

1. Get your deposit back and order it from WF. Do not tell the jeweler why.

2. Bring your laptop to the jeweler and show him what you found. Ask him what he can do for you and how close he can come to the WF price. If you''re happy and he''s happy buy from him.

Me personally, I''d go with number one and get it set at your jeweler. See if he notices its the same diamond.

Let us know what you do.

 

[neatfreak]

Why do you need to get it set locally? WF is a wonderful vendor, I personally would just do everything through them...

 

[newbguy2008]

Thank you to the above readers for such a prompt response. I''d like to get it set locally because I would like to be see the finished product up front and also feel comfortable with the concept of having a local jewler that I can take the ring to should anything happen.

I agree that I should just buy the diamond from WF, but am not sure how the jeweler will treat me once I ask for my deposit back and then walk in with a diamond I purchased elsewhere.

Any other thoughts would be great.

Thanks again...

 

[bruceb916]

Will you really feel bad asking for YOUR money back? He runs a business and if he can''t or won''t match the WF price, there''s no harm in taking your business elsewhere.

 

[MissGotRocks]

You don''t have to have a local jeweler set your stone just to be able to go back to him for repairs or maintenance. People walk in off the street all day long with preset jewelry that needs work, i.e, resizing, replating, prong tightening, etc. I wouldn''t let that hold me back from letting WF set the stone.

If he can''t or won''t meet the WF price, I''d get my money back and call WF. If it were me personally, I would probably just get my money back and call WF period. While it would be good business practice to offer him the chance to meet the price, I''d probably just rather deal with WF straight up. They have a wonderful upgrade policy; you never know when down the road you might want to use it!

Good luck - let us know what you decide.

 

[RBD hunter]

If it is indeed the same diamond (GIA number the same?)
Go to whiteflash and reserve the diamond.....your seller wont be able to supply that diamond (as you have it reserved) and you have a leg up.

 

[NeverEndingUpgrade]

Date: 9/3/2008 10:31:53 PM
Author: RBD hunter
If it is indeed the same diamond (GIA number the same?)
Go to whiteflash and reserve the diamond.....your seller wont be able to supply that diamond (as you have it reserved) and you have a leg up.

Unless Whiteflash can''t get it because it is already reserved by this jeweler. I would deal with Whiteflash. What setting are you thinking of?

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 9/3/2008 10:31:53 PM
Author: RBD hunter
If it is indeed the same diamond (GIA number the same?)
Go to whiteflash and reserve the diamond.....your seller wont be able to supply that diamond (as you have it reserved) and you have a leg up.

Sorry, that is wrong. If I understand correctly, the seller has the diamond in house, WF has it on a virtual list. WhiteFlash will have to say that they can not get it if the seller decides to keep the stone rather than send it back. I did just that with a jeweler here in town who promised to sell a client I had been working with the diamond I had in house for $300 less if he would buy it from him rather than me. He told the client that he knew my vendor and would get the stone from him when I returned it. My client told me that to beat me with it and got a reaction he did not expect. I told him it was a shame he was no longer worthy of buying my stone and to get the heck out of my office. It was REALLY fun to do!

I had been working very hard for him for over two months and this was just the final straw. I sold the stone a few weeks later for its actual value, which was the price I had been asking. I had the added benefit of selling to several people who worked with him when he complained about my actions. Seems I was not the only one he annoyed.

For what it is worth, the other jeweler here in town was here for less than 2 years, that kind of underhanded behavior gets noticed pretty quickly and people quit going to him.

Wink

P.S. I am not saying that you are wrong to want to negotiate, that is your right and your privilege, I am saying that if the local jeweler has the diamond in house, that there is no way it can be locked up at WF.

 

[RBD hunter]

Wink you sound like a good poker player

I did not see where the jeweler had the diamond in house.

As for me
I am dealing with a jeweler in Texas making a ring and I have yet to find the right diamond. (just me being cheap)

I have a local long time family friend/Jeweler here in Arizona.

But with the time the Texas jeweler and I have invested in the making of this ring.
I would not even think about going with another jeweler.

 

[Fly Girl]

I recently purchased a branded stone from a local jeweler. One of the stones she showed me was 20% more than branded stones of the same size, color and clarity here on the PS search engine. (I checked on PS ahead of time.) So, I picked a different stone (better clarity) where the pricing discrepency was not as great. I think part of the value was being able to look at the stone in person in the first place, with the jeweler paying all of the costs of calling them in. A B&M has a hard time competing with Internet prices.

 

[:)]

Part of the problem is you are dealing with two different entities with two different pricing structures - the internet with less overhead for a storefront, etc, and a b&m who has to maintain a storefront. You can bring the subject up to your vendor as it sounds like you would like to deal in person instead of internet, however your vendor may actually be at the lowest he/she is able to offer it for (or may only be able to come down less than you want). b&m mark up is higher than internet. Some b&ms are able to compete but have to do it on slimmer margins so need a higher sales volume to keep things going.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 9/3/2008 7:40:17 PM
Author:newbguy2008
Hi,

Earlier this afternoon I placed a refundable 10% deposit on the diamond at a local jeweler that came highly referred from a number of my friends. I had compared the prices to BlueNile and a few other local stores and found it to be a fair price.

Just now I priced the diamond out on pricescope and to my horror I found the exact same diamond (same GIA certificate details and everything) on Whiteflash for 20% less than the price we agreed upon. And this was after some negotiation and being told that they were right at cost and couldn''t cut anything else off the price. Needless to say, I''m upset and a bit angry.

Can someone help me with a few questions?

1) Should I take my deposit back, or should I use this as an opportunity to negotiate the price down?

2) If I take my refund back, is it reasonable to purchase the diamond from Whiteflash as a loose diamond and take it into a local jewler and ask them to help with the setting?

Any advice here would be greatly appreciated.

Can you pls tell us, how much does 20% constitute here? As in, a couple hundred, a thousand?
As with Wink''s example, if they have been working hard for you and its a difference of a hundred or so, I would buy from the local, (as long as you know they do good bench work too.) If you think they are just being lazy/dishonest, do not reward them with your business.

If it is a higher amount, I would go with WF in a heartbeat - they have a very reputable and experienced bench, and you will probably save money on the setting as well.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 9/3/2008 10:52:16 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 9/3/2008 10:31:53 PM
Author: RBD hunter
If it is indeed the same diamond (GIA number the same?)
Go to whiteflash and reserve the diamond.....your seller wont be able to supply that diamond (as you have it reserved) and you have a leg up.

Sorry, that is wrong. If I understand correctly, the seller has the diamond in house, WF has it on a virtual list. WhiteFlash will have to say that they can not get it if the seller decides to keep the stone rather than send it back. I did just that with a jeweler here in town who promised to sell a client I had been working with the diamond I had in house for $300 less if he would buy it from him rather than me. He told the client that he knew my vendor and would get the stone from him when I returned it. My client told me that to beat me with it and got a reaction he did not expect. I told him it was a shame he was no longer worthy of buying my stone and to get the heck out of my office. It was REALLY fun to do!

I had been working very hard for him for over two months and this was just the final straw. I sold the stone a few weeks later for its actual value, which was the price I had been asking. I had the added benefit of selling to several people who worked with him when he complained about my actions. Seems I was not the only one he annoyed.

For what it is worth, the other jeweler here in town was here for less than 2 years, that kind of underhanded behavior gets noticed pretty quickly and people quit going to him.

Wink

P.S. I am not saying that you are wrong to want to negotiate, that is your right and your privilege, I am saying that if the local jeweler has the diamond in house, that there is no way it can be locked up at WF.

LOL! I have to say Wink, I am usually all for buyers getting the best deal etc, but this picture has me cracking up

 

[Indira-London]

Date: 9/3/2008 10:52:16 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 9/3/2008 10:31:53 PM
Author: RBD hunter
If it is indeed the same diamond (GIA number the same?)
Go to whiteflash and reserve the diamond.....your seller wont be able to supply that diamond (as you have it reserved) and you have a leg up.

Sorry, that is wrong. If I understand correctly, the seller has the diamond in house, WF has it on a virtual list. WhiteFlash will have to say that they can not get it if the seller decides to keep the stone rather than send it back. I did just that with a jeweler here in town who promised to sell a client I had been working with the diamond I had in house for $300 less if he would buy it from him rather than me. He told the client that he knew my vendor and would get the stone from him when I returned it. My client told me that to beat me with it and got a reaction he did not expect. I told him it was a shame he was no longer worthy of buying my stone and to get the heck out of my office. It was REALLY fun to do!

I had been working very hard for him for over two months and this was just the final straw. I sold the stone a few weeks later for its actual value, which was the price I had been asking. I had the added benefit of selling to several people who worked with him when he complained about my actions. Seems I was not the only one he annoyed.

For what it is worth, the other jeweler here in town was here for less than 2 years, that kind of underhanded behavior gets noticed pretty quickly and people quit going to him.

Wink

P.S. I am not saying that you are wrong to want to negotiate, that is your right and your privilege, I am saying that if the local jeweler has the diamond in house, that there is no way it can be locked up at WF.

I have often been tempted in a similar situation myself!

As others on this thread say...how big is the price difference in $s not percentage and does the buyer value the personal input he has had from the person who has showed him the diamond as well as the aftercare that the non-online vendor can provide?

 

[newbguy2008]

The difference is about $6,000. I wouldn''t say that I''ve been blown away by the service, but it certainly has been helpful. My hope is that I bring the difference to the B&M jeweler''s attention and they are able to drop $2,000 - $3,000 off the price.

I''d much prefer to deal in person and from everything I''ve heard from references, this is the top jeweler in town. I believe a jeweler should rightfully make a profit...after all that''s why people go into business at all and I know I wouldn''t even be able to buy a ring if I didnt make a profit doing what I do...but I also would like to feel like I am paying a fair price.

Thanks for all of your advice. I''ll let you know what happens.

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 9/4/2008 8:49:27 AM
Author: newbguy2008
The difference is about $6,000. I wouldn''t say that I''ve been blown away by the service, but it certainly has been helpful. My hope is that I bring the difference to the B&M jeweler''s attention and they are able to drop $2,000 - $3,000 off the price.

I''d much prefer to deal in person and from everything I''ve heard from references, this is the top jeweler in town. I believe a jeweler should rightfully make a profit...after all that''s why people go into business at all and I know I wouldn''t even be able to buy a ring if I didnt make a profit doing what I do...but I also would like to feel like I am paying a fair price.

Thanks for all of your advice. I''ll let you know what happens.

why only 2-3K instead of the full 6k? if you have the leverage of being able to get your deposit back, then they should be able to do so.

 

[:)]

6K? Oh wow that is hard to justify.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 9/4/2008 8:49:27 AM
Author: newbguy2008
The difference is about $6,000. I wouldn''t say that I''ve been blown away by the service, but it certainly has been helpful. My hope is that I bring the difference to the B&M jeweler''s attention and they are able to drop $2,000 - $3,000 off the price.

I''d much prefer to deal in person and from everything I''ve heard from references, this is the top jeweler in town. I believe a jeweler should rightfully make a profit...after all that''s why people go into business at all and I know I wouldn''t even be able to buy a ring if I didnt make a profit doing what I do...but I also would like to feel like I am paying a fair price.

Thanks for all of your advice. I''ll let you know what happens.

6K? And that is their quote "Best Price" - uh uh, no way. Unless you were totally enamoured with their service and product, I couldn''t with good conscience advise to buy from this jeweller over WF.
I would ask for at least 4-5k more if you have to buy from there. You can garauntee they are still making a profit, after all WF is not a charity organization either.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 9/3/2008 11:03:30 PM
Author: RBD hunter
Wink you sound like a good poker player

I did not see where the jeweler had the diamond in house.


As for me

I am dealing with a jeweler in Texas making a ring and I have yet to find the right diamond. (just me being cheap)

I have a local long time family friend/Jeweler here in Arizona.


But with the time the Texas jeweler and I have invested in the making of this ring.

I would not even think about going with another jeweler.

That is refreshing to hear. While getting the best price is nice, leaving enough on the table for the jeweler to make a living while giving you great service is even better. Then he will always be there for you and go the extra mile for you!

Wink

 

[edl]

$6K is a lot of cash.

I would negotiate them down at least $5K, or walk and wait for another one.

 

[zebramoray]

If you did actually see the stone, and you liked it.. I would get my money back, and order it from WhiteFlash.. WhiteFlash will also match/beat the other on-line e-tailers. 20% markup is the std here in Dallas for b&m stores.. I just smilled at the jewelers who told me that was there best price and left.. On-line e-tailers are changing the b&m biz model, and they will tell you as much.

 

[LGK]

Oh wow. I was going to say that there''s nothing unreasonable about paying a bit extra to work with a particular seller if you like their business practices more. I did that, paid $300 extra to work with a vendor I liked much more than another which virtual-listed the same stone for less BUT the cheaper place had cruddy return policies and not-so-great reviews.

$6K though, heck no. Just get your deposit back and buy the diamond from WF. Then take your benchwork business to the local place. They are a business, they aren''t going to get worked up that you bought a diamond somewhere else (at least, if they''re anything like professional they wouldn''t!) They''d probably appreciate getting the setting-business from you. They might not even recognize the stone... the bench workers have probably never seen it and they''re the ones who will spend time with it. Even if they ask you why they lost your business for the diamond, which would be reasonable if they''re polite and approaching it like how-can-we-improve, all you would have to say is that you found a MUCH better price elsewhere. That''s fair I think.

(Wink, you are funny.

I can''t tell you how many times I have wanted to do that when someone gets all whiney that I won''t discount a $5 item for them and keeps asking over and over no matter how many times I say NO. I think the last person I ejected mercilessly was the freak that threw a teapot at me- he got mad that when he put the 200 year old brass teapot ON HIS BURNER TO MAKE TEA that it melted. And wanted to return it. Surprise surpise, no returns for stupidity. So he threw it at me. I did get a little pissy about that, have to admit. OK complete digression, sorry!)

 

[Ellen]

I can understand wanting to work with a local jeweler. What I can't understand is wanting to work with one who told you after negotiating that they were right at cost and couldn't lower the $6000.00 difference. I'd find another jeweler, but that's just me.

 

[Kelli]

6,000 is an enormous amount of money---- to me anyway. I am all for jewelers making a profit, but 6 grand? Come on! I''d go with whiteflash! I didn''t the first time around, and now, not only are they recutting my non-ideal cut diamond, but they''re fixing my prongs as well. I WISH I had learned about them a few months earlier!

 

[denverappraiser]

Talk to the jeweler about it and show them the WF advert, especially the copy of the GIA report. There’s no reason you should walk away from this deal feeling that you are being poorly treated but, at the same time, I think you owe them an explanation and the opportunity to offer an alternative solution rather than just vanishing into the night.

I’m certainly sympathetic to the pickle they are in but this is a problem of their own making. They told you that they were selling at cost, you checked and it's been demonstrated to be a lie. Since their selling point apparently includes that they are priced cheaply, it’s only reasonable that you call them to task on it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[zebramoray]

besides.. jewelers make more money doing custome settings then selling loose stones anyhew..

 

[purrfectpear]

I fully agree that a B & M has more overhead, hence higher prices...however, $6K diff after he "claimed" that was his "best" price.

Sorry, I wouldn't reward that sort of BS by continuing to deal with him. Nice guy, time spent, or not.

I'd buy online AND find a different jeweler for future work. I dislike dishonesty immensely. Any future negotiations would only be because you caught him. I just wouldn't be willing to give him my trust.

I have to assume that Whiteflash is STILL making money (though perhaps only a small margin) at their posted price. Yet the local guy wants $6K MORE on a $30K stone. For the sake of guesstimates here, let's say that WF makes 5% (I have no idea if they make more, but I can't see them making much less). So that's ANOTHER $1.5K.

In reality then, your local guy stands to make at least $7.5K on your $30K stone. I don't know about you, but I'm not giving money away. Buy from Whiteflash. You'll love their customer service. Plus they have a great trade up policy if it's a GIA or AGS stone.

 

[honey22]

Date: 9/4/2008 4:50:31 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I fully agree that a B & M has more overhead, hence higher prices...however, $6K diff after he 'claimed' that was his 'best' price.

Sorry, I wouldn't reward that sort of BS by continuing to deal with him. Nice guy, time spent, or not.


I'd buy online AND find a different jeweler for future work. I dislike dishonesty immensely. Any future negotiations would only be because you caught him. I just wouldn't be willing to give him my trust.


I have to assume that Whiteflash is STILL making money (though perhaps only a small margin) at their posted price. Yet the local guy wants $6K MORE on a $30K stone. For the sake of guesstimates here, let's say that WF makes 5% (I have no idea if they make more, but I can't see them making much less). So that's ANOTHER $1.5K.


In reality then, your local guy stands to make at least $7.5K on your $30K stone. I don't know about you, but I'm not giving money away. Buy from Whiteflash. You'll love their customer service. Plus they have a great trade up policy if it's a GIA or AGS stone.

Ditto - well said pp!

ETA - I just did the sums in my head (warning, I failed maths), but even if you LOST your 10% deposit of $3, and bought the stone through WF, you are still AHEAD $3k! The answer is still there - you are getting duped by the jeweller. Negotiate with him or take your money (or not) and run.

 

[lakai]

Since he has your deposit shouldn''t he have ordered the diamond already ? I don''t understand what the deposit was for unless it is for him to buy the diamond for you to view.