I found enlightenment in India

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I have become aware of why the Indians are producing more than 1/5 by value, and +80% by quantity of the worlds diamonds.

Any guesses as to the real underlying not obvious reason?

 

[strmrdr]

automation, latest equipment, low wages, employers willing to train

desire to compete.

 

[Gonzodogg]

very low wages to miners

 

[Richard Sherwood]

because they''re hungry...

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

All wrong so far.

The wages could treble and they would still be making bigger stones here.

Think about sport and natural selection and things like that - especially African distance runners

 

[Slykat12]

I find the question unclear. I am assumming you say that India creates/cuts many stones yet they are small. In India they use child labor. Children have superior vision.
It would be easy for them to cut a 1/2 pointer. Maybe they do it cause they can!

Maybe they get paid per stone.

um If they finish 20 stones they get to leave the stinky factory so they make small ones fast.

If I get the answer right do i get an ideascope?

 

[jasontb]

Date: 3/4/2006 1:14:19 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
All wrong so far.


The wages could treble and they would still be making bigger stones here.


Think about sport and natural selection and things like that - especially African distance runners

I'm sure I'm really misunderstanding you, because this clue seems like something Jimmy the Greek would say.

 

[jasontb]

Date: 3/3/2006 11:27:54 PM
Author:Garry H (Cut Nut)
I have become aware of why the Indians are producing more than 1/5 by value, and +80% by quantity of the worlds diamonds.


Any guesses as to the real underlying not obvious reason?

The roughs have a lot of flaws. So it''s hard to get two big decent looking diamonds from a rough rock. Instead they cut it up into 4 or 5 finsihed stones without glaring flaws.

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/3/2006 11:27:54 PM
Author:Garry H (Cut Nut)
I have become aware of why the Indians are producing more than 1/5 by value, and +80% by quantity of the worlds diamonds.

Any guesses as to the real underlying not obvious reason?

Historicaly, the Indians were the pioneers of handeling "Gems",
Then the West showed up, and "stole" most of the "known" historical and significant Gems from the Indian Royalty.

The Indians used to cut their treasures as literature documented, "for size and not brilliance", but still the important Gems (that survived) cut 300-400 years ago are kept in their original shapes..., and are considered beautifull and important speciments.

But today the Indians are proving that "their PASSION for Gems" are still rooted deeply in their culture, and that is something the "West" could never take away from them!!!

They are cultured, very patience people, and in a relatively short period, they are the rulers of the Gem Industry Again...

 

[Serg]

Date: 3/3/2006 11:27:54 PM
Author:Garry H (Cut Nut)
I have become aware of why the Indians are producing more than 1/5 by value, and +80% by quantity of the worlds diamonds.

Any guesses as to the real underlying not obvious reason?

May be 80% by value and 90% by quantity?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 3/4/2006 4:38:38 AM
Author: Serg

Date: 3/3/2006 11:27:54 PM
Author:Garry H (Cut Nut)
I have become aware of why the Indians are producing more than 1/5 by value, and +80% by quantity of the worlds diamonds.

Any guesses as to the real underlying not obvious reason?

May be 80% by value and 90% by quantity?

Yes - I meant to write more than Half - 50% - 1/2 - I wrote 1/5 by mistake.

 

[Terri-Jo]

Here is my guess (with the help of google).
The diamond industry makes a very valuable contribution to the economies of the rough producing and processing countries, as well as the exporting and importing countries. In India, which processes nine out of ten diamonds produced in the world, the diamond industry employs about a million persons, mostly artisans and small businessmen.
Last year, India imported over 150 million carats of rough diamonds. If each rough diamond was to be accompanied by an elaborate certificate, imagine the financial cost and the administrative machinery required to regulate complicated schemes. As most diamonds processed in India are below the range of US $ 25 per carat, the per carat cost would be enormously high and could lead to a large number of legitimate diamonds becoming out of the reach of the average buyer. http://www.un.int/india/ind337.htm

Israel is the world''s second greatest polishing force. Its industry is renowned for cutting high quality stones. Israel''s net imports of rough in 2000 were 4.9 million carats for US$2.8 billion. Net exports of polished diamonds were 1.6 million carats for US$3.2 billion. http://www.nnsl.com/ops/mining.html

The Indian market is flooded with about 40 brands that are less than two years old. Speaking on branding and marketing in the new jewellery retail environment Mehul Choksi said: The sale of diamond jewellery in India has been increasing at a rapid pace of 25% every year over the last two years. The branded jewellery segment has shown an astonishing trend, increasing by 50% each year. Randed jewellery is making the consumption of diamond jewellery grow. If the Indian diamond and jewellery industry is successful in branding even 30% of this sector, exports from India will increase further and India would become a major brand leader for diamond jewellery. http://www.diamondworld.net/publications/default.asp?article=publications_archival_2005_05_minestomarkets

 

[Terri-Jo]

The Gem and Jewellery Export Promotion Council has taken steps to ensure that this does not affect Indian trade. As the Council Chairman, Mr Sanjay Kothari, says: ``The Indian diamond community is committed to achieving the objectives set by the Council to create a world free of conflict diamonds.'''' Using measures that involve banks, exports declarations and a threat of debarring, the Council hopes to ensure that Conflict Diamonds do not enter the country. It is, however, hard to be completely secure when 9 out of 10 diamonds are cut and polished in this country http://www.hinduonnet.com/businessline/iw/2000/10/15/stories/0515e051.htm

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 3/4/2006 2:38:12 AM
Author: jasontb

Date: 3/4/2006 1:14:19 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
All wrong so far.


The wages could treble and they would still be making bigger stones here.


Think about sport and natural selection and things like that - especially African distance runners

I''m sure I''m really misunderstanding you, because this clue seems like something Jimmy the Greek would say.

I like that. Still, maybe Garry, you''re just fleshing out this thread''s title, and you''re saying that for 2500 years and more, Indians have grown up in a culture which has valued the bases upon which a diamond''s qualities are studied. Then again, although it''s not entirely clear how this particular nuance will have been regarded as different that a car salesman who knows the ins and outs of consumer reports, a financial adviser who can cipher the benefits of no load mutual funds and their likelihood of winning in the future, or a sports enthusiast who knows the stats inside and out of team''s player''s scores...there may be some unique things about diamonds that make this just perfect for the long tradition of knowing how to assess and discriminate this from that, and value the benefits and qualities gained and lost in doing so.

 

[denverappraiser]

They have a sensible legal system when compared to other low wage countries.
They have a culture that encourages education and a steadily increasing quality of work product.
They have an infrastructure that is conducive to training workers, distributing tools and necessary supplies.
They have a sensible tax structure.
The national and regional governments are supportive of the industry and some of the peculiar requirements involved.
They have a good banking system.
They have a reasonably stable currency.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Gonzodogg]

Date: 3/4/2006 1:14:19 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
All wrong so far.

The wages could treble and they would still be making bigger stones here.

Think about sport and natural selection and things like that - especially African distance runners

This makes me think that you are talking about something having to do with altitude or oxygen content of the air although I do not know enough about diamonds to know how that might make a difference.

 

[valeria101]

W/o acquiring technology and beating the rest of the block to the run, there would be no diamond polishing in India. If I am not mistaking, they are No1 market for cutting technology. Perhaps what India is doing could happen elsewhere - but this is dead-wood question now, it seems rather clear that the same type of development marrying advanced processing with the lower end of the rough material could not have happened in the established 'western' diamond cutting centres (with their alternative growth centres in the economy and whatever else an old market may come up with in terms of entry barriers). India was there to fit in a big gap pretty impressive how far that went.

Low wages... even if the diamond industry were a relatively low-wage one (which is not) in India and it would be so labor intensive (which is not)... n'ah, I doubt this is much of an issue. Funny how the most successful sectors in 'Developia' are never the labor intensive ones. And I wouldn't dream counting India as a 'developing country'. Maybe Romania

although it goes by a better classification by now.

What catches my imagination is 'what next'? Is there really such a definite separation between the business circuitry that grinds this 80% and the one that grinds the last 20% volume & 50% value?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Gee that got some great info and responses -thanks everyone.
Terri - grreat research
Ira, Neil and Ana and everyone else - great stuff.

You are all right - but the reason that dawned on me is that India gets the dreggs.
The cheap and nasty and hard to plan, knotty and imposible to polish etc.

If you want to be a great boxer you need tough sparring partners.
To ran fast you need to train harder than others.

Indian polishers grew up on really nasty heavily included stones - they have learned to work those goods - they have a creative work force - unlike the chinese who need large consistent parcels and assortments for true mass production of mainly smalls.

They get the tough stones and that training made them savvy
that is my enlightening thought for the week.

 

[mdx]

Date: 3/4/2006 12:22:01 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
.
that is my enlightening thought for the week.

and a pretty good one too old chap

Johan

 

[WinkHPD]

I think you may be right. I remember when Indian stones were mostly an embarrassment to see in jewelry, mostly in malls and other places you saw junk jewelry. Lots of top light browns and worse colors and horrible I2''s and CRUMMY cutting.

Now some of the best mele is coming from there and in better colors and clarities as well as the dregs.

Good thought!

Wink

 

[mandyd]

Gary, do you think it is a good idea to buy a 3ct diamond in India? I am trying to figure out if there is a significant savings compared to the US and what kind of a certificate I should ask for. I travel to India all the time so I am not afraid of buying there, just wondering if it is worth the trouble price wise and cert wise. Do you have any sellers in Mumbai that you would recommend? By the way, I enjoyed reading about your trip there!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I would not advise it Mandyd.
You could have an adventure - but the risks are high and i would bet you a nice bottle of wine that you would not better what you could find by searching this board. (I make nothing out of promoting people who list on this site - and am clearly a big supporter of the Indian industry).

So take the challenge if you like. But buy an ideal-scope and loupe.

 

[mandyd]

Thanks Gary. Actually I did buy an Idealscope off your site a couple of days ago because I do buy a lot of diamond jewellery in India as I am Indian and have a reputed family jeweller. However they have always been small diamonds. I have never bought a large diamond in India before. I am not worried about being ripped off, just about the certificate bit. As you know a lot of business is done there on a trust basis and it''s a cultural thing so they don''t really discuss the cut and proportions with you in detail as they do here. I guess you are right, I am sure I will be more comfortable buying a stone here and I will probably take it with me and have it set there, in which case I will have the best of both worlds!

 

[oldminer]

Here I am this very morning, in my hotel room in Mumbai, India. Thinking about how to best sell my poducts and services to Indian cutters, sigthholders and retailers. I hope I am in shape for the long distance run, too. I have a firm running here now with 6 employees and probably looking for growth even faster than the diamond business is growing here.

We see people committed to working hard and dedicated to pleasing clientele. While this is becoming more uncommon in many places in the USA, the culture here is very different.

Thanks for the thread, Garry.

 

[esp102]