I don't know how to help - legal? medical? where to start

[MMtwo]

I have been mulling this problem around for a while and I am not sure what to do or where to start. Since we have all kinds of PSers with social work and or other backgrounds, can you give me any ideas?

There is a 50ish cousin who has mental illness, learning disabilities and physical illness (MS) and is unable to successfully work. I will call this person "S". Their parent just died who had been supporting S, and left S and a sibling a modest home in disrepair. The sibling "M" works in another state and also has life challenges. I believe the working sibling has autism and is not strong enough to carry two. S ha sno real money or resources. S tried to work but was shortly fired for cleanliness. S also quit because S does not like working conditions of most jobs. The home is hoarded. It is in disrepair. M sends money back to help S. S seems to struggle with mild delusions and making decisions. S asks for help from me, and I am happy to help, but how?!.

I want to help S be safe, maybe get disability, and figure out a living situation they are able to maintain. I offered to help with the disability case filed 6 months ago, but a local agency "helped". S said a packet showed up at the home, but S lost it. The case was closed and denied. No supporting documentation was submitted because S didn't follow through. I have SOAR training (disability case training) so feel I can help. She said she had it covered before, as the agency had offered to help.

I am 2 hours away, unable to help de-hoard the home or bankroll living expenses for this person. S knows they have issues and does not have the capacity to follow through with some tasks. They even said they will be willing to assign me a power of attorney to help...but help how and where to start? This person has some capacity, but the mental illness does seem to get in the way of follow through or problem solving.

How can I find help for this person?
Should I try to help her work with a SS Attorney to work on her claim?
And this house, what the heck can I do. S and sibling own it now, after the parent died. S believes they can rent rooms, but the house may be condemnable at this point. It is so sad and I don't know where to start here.

Any ideas are so welcome. I can certainly find a little money for a lawyer if needed. The state is NC.

 

[Rfisher]

I’m so sorry for your cousins and your recent loss.

Firstly-
How open is your cousin to change in current living status /environment
And how open are they to a ‘stranger’ coming into their home and ‘telling’ them what to do/making changes in their day to day runnings and environment? And when was the last time you physically visited the house’s interior to know it’s status?

I’m assuming a lot here. So my apologies up front.

I hope it all works out for all involved.

Edited to add: Medicaid/medicare PACE program ( if they qualify) if there’s one in their area might keep them in their house, giving them the assistance needed to live safely in the community. Still would need much time in assistance/guidance from you remotely and probably in person for a little while at the beginning and as their POA.

“Safely in the community” is their goal but once that cannot be met with resources available, or roadblocks are put in place by the client - then things can happen out of your remote / your cousins control.

 

[yssie]

I don’t know how to help, and I’m not qualified to offer any advice, but I just wanted to say that you’re a very kind person for wanting to try to help S

 

[lovedogs]

I would work with someone from social services. S should qualify for SSI If she can't work (basically monthly payments to individuals who are disabled)

 

[MMtwo]

I’m so sorry for your cousins and your recent loss.

Firstly-
How open is your cousin to change in current living status /environment
And how open are they to a ‘stranger’ coming into their home and ‘telling’ them what to do/making changes in their day to day runnings and environment? And when was the last time you physically visited the house’s interior to know it’s status?

I’m assuming a lot here. So my apologies up front.

I hope it all works out for all involved.

Edited to add: Medicaid/medicare PACE program ( if they qualify) if there’s one in their area might keep them in their house, giving them the assistance needed to live safely in the community. Still would need much time in assistance/guidance from you remotely and probably in person for a little while at the beginning and as their POA.

“Safely in the community” is their goal but once that cannot be met with resources available, or roadblocks are put in place by the client - then things can happen out of your remote / your cousins control.

Thank you so much for responding! I appreciate your condolences and kind wishes for a good resolution.

S asked me to come and help. I stayed in a motel and visited on the porch, last year. It was very bad. S does NOT welcome input, unless S asked for it, but then will quickly and angrily shut down conversation and say they cannot deal with the situation and are quick to get nasty. The last time they asked me to help then verbally flipped around and shut me out and down. They reached out again, and I honestly told them I cannot both help and "eff off" at once .
They admitted they were difficult and said they were willing to work on things but has a very low tolerance for persons not following their line of thinking. I kept trying to pull them back onto the path of problem solving. They would much rather sink into an unfortunate alternate reality where they are a devotee of Tony Robbins and manifesting their own destiny daily...it's getting better, they say. Then they are in deep despair. Then, they are off and working on get rich ideas.

In short, it is walking a mine field with this personality. I am trying hard to be respectful of this person and would want to talk about them the way I would want someone to talk about myself. But, I can't get help if I don't talk about the situation. Forgive me oddly de-gendering all of this.

I don't take offense in this situation; they honestly DO have multiple mental health issues and I cannot expect a sick person to be well.

Thank you for the idea about PACE and Medicaid. I am hoping for places and people I can call on their behalf. I am also willing to have a local attorney make a POA on their behalf.

 

[MMtwo]

I don’t know how to help, and I’m not qualified to offer any advice, but I just wanted to say that you’re a very kind person for wanting to try to help S

Thank you, @yssie . I had a rough past and am very thankful when I can reach out and help someone find stability and resources. Two years ago helped someone living in their vehicle get an apartment and SSI. I can be fierce and advocate when needed, but I have no idea how to work this one - it is so big.

 

[lambskin]

Getting her on SSI will help financially. But she needs support from the community with social services and mental health treatment.

 

[Elizabeth35]

I think getting this person on SS disability is a first step.
As far as the house--it sounds as if they are not really capable of maintaining a home. Are they living in a town or in a rural area?
Is there city, county, or township social services that could help?

Also check out NAMI (National Alliance for Mentally Ill) NC--

One moment, please...

They could sell the property to an investor at a bargain price to get out from under and get some $$.
Do you know if they have been paying the property taxes so that it won't go to sheriff's sale?

But---dealing with someone with these issues is like pushing rope uphill. You will get a lot of resistance.

 

[Avondale]

A person with mental health issues needs a mental heath specialist same as a person with physical health issues needs a physician. So I would think in that direction, unless there's anything else urgent that needs taking care of first.

The problem is, just as it goes in the old saying about the horse and the water, that you can provide S with a therapist but you can't make them work with said therapist. And this would be the real first step towards getting better. If S doesn't want to be helped (and in all honesty, for the time being it sounds like it), then you are powerless to do anything.

I truly hope for the sake of S that with some help from people around them they'll be able to get things together and move forward.

 

[MMtwo]

Bless you all, you are exactly what I needed to start a plan <3.

@Rfisher @lovedogs @yssie @Elizabeth35 @lambskin skin @Avondale
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your time and supportive comments. I have just been stuck and thinking in circles...what where how. Yes! Start with SSI. S is 30 days in the 60 day appeal for SSI denial. Monday I am calling a SSI lawyer in her town and after securing an appointment for consult, I am driving down to attend a meeting with her, as her advocate.

Step 1, I have a plan!
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

S is seeing a pro-bono mental health professional in town, one working on their hours for certification "under a grant". S indicated they had a rough session last week, not taking kindly to the Social worker's suggestions. The Social Worker "took it personally". Oh dear, that sounds predictably ominous. The person is working under a more seasoned professional, so I hope that smooths over.

One. Step. At. A. Time.
I have been working in the homeless systems, in shelters and as support for Social Workers since 2009, so even though this is not my field, many aspects of working with persons with disabilities, mental health issues and barriers for stability are known. I am IT support now (last nine years) but earned a few t-shirts in the previous years and am well versed in the difficulties . But if I am not there for family, who is?

 

[MMtwo]

I think getting this person on SS disability is a first step.
As far as the house--it sounds as if they are not really capable of maintaining a home. Are they living in a town or in a rural area?
Is there city, county, or township social services that could help?

Also check out NAMI (National Alliance for Mentally Ill) NC--

One moment, please...

They could sell the property to an investor at a bargain price to get out from under and get some $$.
Do you know if they have been paying the property taxes so that it won't go to sheriff's sale?

But---dealing with someone with these issues is like pushing rope uphill. You will get a lot of resistance.

S is in a major town, thankfully. I think they might be okay with supports. I wish they lived nearby, but unhappily, there is no family close.

A person with mental health issues needs a mental heath specialist same as a person with physical health issues needs a physician. So I would think in that direction, unless there's anything else urgent that needs taking care of first.

The problem is, just as it goes in the old saying about the horse and the water, that you can provide S with a therapist but you can't make them work with said therapist. And this would be the real first step towards getting better. If S doesn't want to be helped (and in all honesty, for the time being it sounds like it), then you are powerless to do anything.

I truly hope for the sake of S that with some help from people around them they'll be able to get things together and move forward.

I am not sure what the mental issue is, but S is known as "little (my mom's name)". There are vast similarities between S's personality and that of my mother. In that, I do know how to navigate some of the prickly, strange issues. I am sure there are diagnoses to be had here, but not sure what to call it. I just know the path and have seen it my entire life.

 

[MMtwo]

I feel so much better with a plan. <3

 

[stracci2000]

I have no advice, but I want to say that it is wonderful that you want to help your relative this way!
You rock MMtwo!

 

[MMtwo]

I have no advice, but I want to say that it is wonderful that you want to help your relative this way!
You rock MMtwo!

This is so kind of you to say. I would assume you would do the same.
I think we all do what we can. My life was literally turned around by the help and assistance from others when I was a young single mom escaping an abusive marriage. I have gratitude for people who lent a couch or bed. I am really grateful and remember the pain of it all. I have been most blessed when helping others, not helping myself.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

You are wonderful to help. It is challenging to deal with the mental health issues that get in the way of every day life. Social Services are your best hope, and getting SSI or SS disability will open many doors to health care, SNAP benefits and mental health services.

My daughter is 29 and lives with me. She has a developmental disability and I hope her relatives will be as kind when I am gone.

 

[Lookinagain]

Just wondering, but it sounds like S may need a legal guardian to deal with the house and legal issues. I guess it's a question of whether you'd be willing to take that on. If M lives in another state and S can't maintain the home, it may just be best to sell it to someone who will do the necessary repairs and give S and M the funds.
I'm not a mental health professional but do you think some kind of group home would work for S?

 

[MMtwo]

You are wonderful to help. It is challenging to deal with the mental health issues that get in the way of every day life. Social Services are your best hope, and getting SSI or SS disability will open many doors to health care, SNAP benefits and mental health services.

My daughter is 29 and lives with me. She has a developmental disability and I hope her relatives will be as kind when I am gone.

Thank you for your kind words. It is so comforting to be able to talk about, and get ideas on how to assist. I agree, the services are fundamental! There are most definately places and projects for persons with illnesses like hers.

I read the denied SSI claim yesterday, when S sent the paperwork. No mention was made of mental illness. It was submitted on MS disability and High Blood pressure. S is currently not in a relapse state. The high blood pressure is mild, and S is non-compliant with medicine. One health care provider listed had moved. NO MENTION OF THE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. *sigh* A local provider "helped" write this application, but they failed to make any sort of case, apparently. And, when they sent S the packet, apparently S failed to return it to SSI. This is the basis of the case, much more than anything, S cannot care for their person, household or following up with such important tasks as assuring their own case is handled. When I saw S, their hair had been matted for a year. S was proud they managed to comb and hack it out with a friend before they saw me. Bless S, when you cannot brush your own hair, things are pretty bad.

I am now wondering if I should writethe case instead of a lawyer. Or maybe help birddog documents. I do not have the expertise as a lawyer, but dang, I can do better than was done so far. If we use an attorney, of course they get paid from the case.

Thanks for "listening".

I also have a child at home at 30 who has autism disorder. I "hear you" on the concerns and worry. I also hope and pray for good outcomes for him when I am gone someday.

 

[Rfisher]

I am sorry if this question is too much?

If you include mental illness on the disability application - will your cousin be calm about it?
And does it need to be diagnosed /backup confirmation from a provider?

If there’s no formal diagnosis - they may require an evaluation from a place of their choosing. Will your cousin actually go the appointment and answer questions there truthfully? If you go with them - are you prepared to contradict them (in their presence) with the more truthful answers to the staff?

They may require an in home evaluation for disability - will your cousin allow it or require to ‘prepare’ the house for the visit and that prepare is just not feasible and won’t/can’t happen so the eval doesn’t happen.

 

[MMtwo]

Just wondering, but it sounds like S may need a legal guardian to deal with the house and legal issues. I guess it's a question of whether you'd be willing to take that on. If M lives in another state and S can't maintain the home, it may just be best to sell it to someone who will do the necessary repairs and give S and M the funds.
I'm not a mental health professional but do you think some kind of group home would work for S?

I feel it is possible they need guardianship. I know nothing about what this entails, what this means in legal responsibilities. I definitely need an attorney to consult in this. S did say they were willing to sign a POA over to me. I am happy to help as I can. The only caveat is that I do not want this to any way put my household at financial risk, say they default on the home or something. I would not think it works like this, but I don't know what I don't know.

S is very attractive and years ago toured the world as an opera singer. The self-concept is still set as that person, with a temporary set-back. I am not sure that a group home would be ready for S.

I could see S living in an apartment with occasional therapy/ support.

 

[MMtwo]

I am sorry if this question is too much?

If you include mental illness on the disability application - will your cousin be calm about it?
And does it need to be diagnosed /backup confirmation from a provider?

If there’s no formal diagnosis - they may require an evaluation from a place if their choosing. Will your cousin go the appointment and answer questions there truthfully? If you go with them - will you contradict them with more truthful answers?

Thank you, I am so appreciative of your help to sus this out.

I do not know if S has a diagnosis that is official. I do know that they have seen counselors and would imagine there is some sort of official diagnosis. If they do not have one, they most definitely need to have testing on paper by a professional as supportive documentation. When I visit I will get a Release of Information and start requesting records on their behalf.

I can secure my own narrative, narrative from friends close to her. Probably the hospice nurses who cared for their mother, short-time employers who had to let them go. These narratives can supply documentation for the inability to navigate the issues we have written about. I think it would go a long way.

I think S would be open to it....I hope. You intuit correctly, anything that does not fit into S's self-concept gets tossed pretty quickly.

 

[Rfisher]

S did say they were willing to sign a POA over to me. I am happy to help as I can. The only caveat is that I do not want this to any way put my household at financial risk, say they default on the home or something. I would not think it works like this, but I don't know what I don't know.

-Each state may differ-

The person must be deemed in sound mind to sign off on /agree to the POA.
And there’s multiple types of POA.
You generally do not become liable financially for anything, being someone’s POA just by being their POA. Where the financial liability may come in - would be what you may (unknowingly) sign for on their behalf later on. Read the fine print of anything you sign for.

 

[MMtwo]

@Rfisher you bring up a good point - how sound is sound enough? The decisioning is disordered. I guess if one is not of sound mind, a judge or some such would have to declare that person unfit in some way and assign a guardian? Here again is where it looks like I should retain an attorney to navigate this.

 

[Rfisher]

I think you should consider a meeting with a lawyer really familiar in this area
-Just you -
So you can find out which POA/guardianship/ conservator
Best suits the needs of what you would like to /feasibly can accomplish in your situation.
And also find out the implications /limits/liabilities of each.

Being legally responsible for someone you ultimately can’t control/ wouldn't inpatient in a situation doesn’t help anyone.

Best wishes, truly.

 

[MMtwo]

Thank you so much for your thoughts and help!

 

[Lookinagain]

@Rfisher you bring up a good point - how sound is sound enough? The decisioning is disordered. I guess if one is not of sound mind, a judge or some such would have to declare that person unfit in some way and assign a guardian? Here again is where it looks like I should retain an attorney to navigate this.

As @Rfisher mentions, the person giving the POA must be mentally capable. Some states would allow it to be signed during a "lucid" moment, and I guess others would not. I do think you should consult and attorney to find out the differences between guardianship, conservatorship, etc. and how they are distinguished from a POA as well.

 

[MMtwo]

As @Rfisher mentions, the person giving the POA must be mentally capable. Some states would allow it to be signed during a "lucid" moment, and I guess others would not. I do think you should consult and attorney to find out the differences between guardianship, conservatorship, etc. and how they are distinguished from a POA as well.

Thank you! I appreciate the help. I have reached out to an attorney near S for a private consultation.

 

[Rfisher]

Bringing up the possibility your cousin wants to bring in a rent paying housemate to the attorney would be a good topic to discuss as well.
How it might change parameters in any assistance they might qualify for.
Or just plain legal aspects of it.