I don't get it... "lab grown diamonds".

[Dancing Fire]

Are they that much cheaper than natural diamonds of the same grade?
Will GIA/AGS grade these stones?
How much for a nice 1ct?
Would you wear one?

"Ain't nothing like the real thing baby"

 

[BlingObsession]

Are they that much cheaper than natural diamonds of the same grade? Don't know
Will GIA/AGS grade these stones? Don't know this either
How much for a nice 1ct? In fact, I don't know much about anything, it seems
Would you wear one? But, what I do know is that I would NEVER knowingly wear one.

 

[OoohShiny]

AIUI they are literally so identical to diamonds mined from the earth that I believe the only way to tell them apart is to use (likely expensive) equipment that can detect the 'grain' of the diamond (which illustrates how it grew).

On that basis, I am not quite sure why there is hostility to them - they look identical when worn and when under a jewellers microscope, and they perform identically to nature-formed stones, so they literally aren't any different to nature-formed stones.

Part of me wonders if this is similar to the argument against replica watches - wherein those who hate them do so because when they see watch X on the wrist of someone else, they assume that the person has the qualities ascribed to purchasers of said watches in the glossy advertising by the manufacturer of 'the real thing'. And when they realise/find out the watch is a replica and was put together in a factory in China, they feel 'cheated' because the values and qualities sold by the adverts no longer apply, even though the wearer has not changed in any way and should, of course, be judged by their actions rather than what they are wearing anyway.

Does buying a watch with a 'lifestyle' attached to it in the adverts actually mean that the purchasers of said watches have such a lifestyle and share the concomitant qualities and personal values? After all, I could win the lottery tomorrow and buy myself a yacht and a Patek Phillipe, but would that make me posh and 'old money' and a hard-working career-minded aspirationalist, like the adverts suggest I should be? Or just common and flashy 'new money'? lol


Why should we be snobby where a certain structure of carbon, polished into a light-refracting and -reflecting existence, comes from? Carbon is carbon, the structure is the structure - ain't nothing different between man-made and natural if they are both identical in chemical and physics terms. Any suggestion there is, is just marketing and 'brand values' being applied


All IMHO, of course

 

[tyty333]

I just looked at brilliant earth and looks like G/VS1 super ideal/ideal range run about $4k to $4.6K so about $2k cheaper BUT they were all
graded by IGI (which accounts for some of the money and the fact that they are probably lower than GIA G/VS1). I wish they had some
pictures but no such luck.

I found an article that said GIA has been grading lab grown diamonds for about 10 years.

Would I wear one? I would probably never buy one but if someone gave me one as a gift or I inherited one (from someone???) then I would probably
wear it if it were nice and in a piece of jewelry that I liked.

 

[elle_71125]

I'd wear one. It's grown in a lab but it's all made of the same stuff right?
I'm not too picky though. I just want to sparkle!

 

[MissGotRocks]

No, I wouldn't want one. It's like wear fake whatever - it may look to the observer like the real deal but you would know it isn't. I can see the allure of same look, less money but it just wouldn't fly for me.

 

[lissyflo]

AIUI they are literally so identical to diamonds mined from the earth that I believe the only way to tell them apart is to use (likely expensive) equipment that can detect the 'grain' of the diamond (which illustrates how it grew).

On that basis, I am not quite sure why there is hostility to them - they look identical when worn and when under a jewellers microscope, and they perform identically to nature-formed stones, so they literally aren't any different to nature-formed stones.

Part of me wonders if this is similar to the argument against replica watches - wherein those who hate them do so because when they see watch X on the wrist of someone else, they assume that the person has the qualities ascribed to purchasers of said watches in the glossy advertising by the manufacturer of 'the real thing'. And when they realise/find out the watch is a replica and was put together in a factory in China, they feel 'cheated' because the values and qualities sold by the adverts no longer apply, even though the wearer has not changed in any way and should, of course, be judged by their actions rather than what they are wearing anyway.

Does buying a watch with a 'lifestyle' attached to it in the adverts actually mean that the purchasers of said watches have such a lifestyle and share the concomitant qualities and personal values? After all, I could win the lottery tomorrow and buy myself a yacht and a Patek Phillipe, but would that make me posh and 'old money' and a hard-working career-minded aspirationalist, like the adverts suggest I should be? Or just common and flashy 'new money'? lol


Why should we be snobby where a certain structure of carbon, polished into a light-refracting and -reflecting existence, comes from? Carbon is carbon, the structure is the structure - ain't nothing different between man-made and natural if they are both identical in chemical and physics terms. Any suggestion there is, is just marketing and 'brand values' being applied


All IMHO, of course

While my head whole-heartedly agrees with you, I have to admit that my heart is still sucker-punched by the romance of knowing that a 'real' diamond was formed over millions of years by natural forces. Something in me just loves the miracle of what nature can do with carbon grit, and growing in a lab just doesn't hold the same mystique.

Having said that, I own and wear synthetic stones as well as real ones. Variety is the spice of life after all!

 

[OreoRosies86]

I am more of a colored stone person than diamonds, but I think a lot of the allure is that something came out of the earth, had to be hunted for.

However it is in and of itself a ridiculous luxury to own that pretty bit of the earth, and I would never put someone down for wearing something lab created. Jewelry is personal, no need to be snobby. Calling someone's engagement ring fake is just mean. Plus good stimulants in expensive settings are still very pricey!

 

[Queenie60]

Not sure - I don't know enough about them.

 

[AprilBaby]

Yes I would wear one, no I wouldn't buy one. It's all about not hurting anyone mining. The question really is, if you wear one for that reason does anybody really know? Most assume it's a regular diamond and assume it was mined so why not wear something else?

 

[msop04]

I'd totally wear one... but I wouldn't buy one unless it was at a deep discount (like 40-50% less).

 

[baby monster]

Never seen one IRL. Do they look better than CZs? I find it hard to justify the price of man-made stone that is in excess of CZ price.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Part of me wonders if this is similar to the argument against replica watches - wherein those who hate them do so because when they see watch X on the wrist of someone else, they assume that the person has the qualities ascribed to purchasers of said watches in the glossy advertising by the manufacturer of 'the real thing'. And when they realise/find out the watch is a replica and was put together in a factory in China, they feel 'cheated' because the values and qualities sold by the adverts no longer apply, even though the wearer has not changed in any way and should, of course, be judged by their actions rather than what they are wearing anyway.

I can spot a fake Patek from a mile away, b/c the fakes from China are nowhere equal to the real thing in detailed finish.

 

[Sparkles88]

My friend has just ordered some lab diamonds to make a pair of ear rings. They will be 51 points hearts and Arrows FVS1 each, I'm really interrested to see what they are like in real life. The price quoted was $750 US for each diamond. My jeweler also gave me the option of having lab diamonds in my tennis bracelet 5ctw, but I'm not sure...it's a wedding anniversary gift and I guess the thought of created diamonds, doesn't have the same appeal as mined diamonds to me. The price of the lab diamonds was going to be approximately a third of mined natural ones.

 

[alene]

All other things being equal (comparable cut, graded by the same lab), I'd totally wear one if they were a huge bargain. Not sure it's really the case though.

 

[Karl_K]

I love orange diamonds, blue ones too.
The only way I will ever own either is mmd or treated.
Both have a place in the market but are not for everyone.
Properly disclosed and priced and bought by informed buyers they are just fine in my opinion.

 

[vintagelover229]

For many the horrible practises of mining of the stones (gemstones/diamonds) far outweigh the 'not created by nature' factor of having the same thing created in a controlled setting. Everything else is basically made in a lab, heck even a lot of our food is GMO/modified in a lab. I find it a bit silly people would be snobbish over something like a stone grown in a lab but almost everything else modified or created by science is okay.

To each their own! I like rock hounding so there will likely be a point in my life I actually find the rough myself and have someone else cut it for me to make into jewelery. I think the thrill of the hunt and being in nature is fun. However I do NOT find the practise of the large mining companies (I realize some have gotten better) and how badly they mess up the area they are mining is not cool at all. So I see the appeal to having something grown in a lab over naturally mined.

And my dad was looking at a 2 carat yellow diamond I think it was like 4-5k which is a LOT less than a 2 carat natural diamond. I could be recalling wrong but I know that GOG has access to lab grown stones AND you can get them custom cut in AVR or AVC which is highly appealing to me!

 

[acaw2015]

I would totally buy and wear one for the right price and in a great cut. But I will always prize a natural diamond more simply because it is *not* man made, it makes it more special imho. If they were cheap Id get several in different cuts/shapes to play with. ETA: but they are not cheap enough (yet?)

 

[Jambalaya]

I would probably wear one, if someone gave me one, and I would consider it a diamond, but they still cost thousands so I probably wouldn't buy one. I don't think I would consider a lab diamond special enough for an engagement ring, either.

It's funny - I DO consider them to be real diamonds since they are exactly the same as mined diamonds - but I'm not comfortable with spending thousands on something grown in a lab. I looked up lab diamonds over 2 carats on brilliantearth.com and they were 11-12k. I mean, there's just no way I'm going to spend that kind of money on something lab-created. I know it's the same material, but somehow it just isn't the same.

Having said that, if I saw one in real life, and if it was a super-ideal cut performing in the same way a mined super-ideal cut with the same specs performs, I might just lose my heart to it and go ahead. Might.

I don't think I could ever tell people that my three-carater was a lab diamond though, because these diamond have a huge PR problem. People just think they're fake.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

What/where is the market? Are these diamonds of all sizes and can be purchased in all color and clarity options?

cheers--Sharon

 

[lyra]

I can foresee fraud happening on the secondary market, and the prices seem too high. I would knowingly buy/wear them. I'm more concerned about unknowingly purchasing one.

 

[tkyasx78]

Would you wear one?

Yes, BUT i would not buy one.
if someone gifted me one, i would wear it but i do not consider them "real " diamonds because they were not created in the earth. in my mind even though they test like diamonds they are man made in a lab
There are also lab sapphires and lab alexandrites and they are pretty enough - and like a lab diamond; I wouldnt turn down jewelry with them but I would want a real one that wasnt made in a lab if it was my money.

 

[arkieb1]

I'm not entirely sure I get it, I get the sustainability theories that go with them and the lack of exploitation from not mining, but when they are what I consider relatively expensive and probably don't hold their value as much as a normal untreated diamonds, I think if you are using machines to produce them it's still making a carbon footprint and if the companies that manufacture them are still marking them up 300% or whatever on the actual costs of creating them, you might as well just buy a real diamond.

 

[madelise]

There's really nothing to "get". They exist. People will buy. I'd rather buy a moissanite if I had ethical concerns about diamonds, since there actually is a significant $$ difference, but hey!

I don't discriminate in sparkle. They all sparkle. I love sparkle. I wouldn't kick any out of bed.

 

[OoohShiny]

I find this discussion really interesting, thanks to all who have participated and to @Dancing Fire for starting it


I think what I find most interesting is that, to attempt to summarise and infer from the above:

1) they are broadly acknowledged as chemically/physically the same as mined diamonds but are also seen as 'fake'
2) there is some feeling that to wear one would be 'misrepresentation' (because people would assume it was mined and judge the wearer as having 'cheated' when they were told/found out it was grown and not as expensive as mined)
3) some would wear them if given them and they were pretty, but would not actually buy them with their own money
4) there is conflict between the heart (emotion) and the mind (logic)

5) they are perceived as less 'romantic' than mined diamonds
6) they are perceived as 'easier' to create than it is to mine a diamond (therefore 'cheating?)
7) they are seen as not worth as much as real diamonds
there is a perception that prices should be lower to offset the lack of 'romanticism' of created diamonds and the feeling that creating a diamond is 'easier' than mining one

9) there is a lack of clear costs and profit margins involved in their production
10) there is suspicion of profiteering by companies creating diamonds
11) there is concern over resale values
12) there is lack of clarity on the environmental impacts of both mined and created diamonds

I've attempted to group the related aspects but they do all seem to interlink! Some of them might even be the same point but worded differently lol.


re: 9 and 10, is the situation actually any different to mined diamonds? I admit that I have done no research on the subject so am talking from a position of ignorance, but is there actually a clear line of profit margin from mine to cutter to retailer? Or just a general feeling that profit margins on mined diamonds are 'about right' and based on supply and demand (which can, of course, be manipulated)? I know the various vendors on PS have intimated that profit margins are perhaps 10% nowadays, with the internet direct companies like Blue Nile operating at <5% margin (IIRC?) and Yoram, amongst others, has lamented the fact that rough is so expensive for cutters as to prohibit R&D on existing and new cuts. So is it just the case that mines are pricing rough very high? Or if it's a 'bid to buy' situation, that bidders are pricing right at the top of the expected final cut-and-sold based-on-weight-not-beauty values in order to ensure they get the high quality rough they want to work with?

re: 11 and 12, I think the same comment applies? There is already general acceptance that resale values (of even SuperIdeal MRBs) are markedly lower than the new-from-the-vendor price, even though the stone as a physical object is unchanged from when it left the 'showroom', and is the hole-in-the-ground to ring-on-the-finger story of the diamond really publicised that much? I don't recall seeing it on any vendors' websites, and as mentioned, the environmental concerns seem to make the first half of the story (from earth to cutter) subject of more "shocking footage shows what it takes to find a diamond!!1!" clickbait Youtube video compilations than actual unbiased information videos on retailers' websites.

I think number 4 might well be the overarching umbrella under which 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8 fall. Diamonds have been marketed as an emotional purchase for many years, and emotions around anything that is supposed to represent love, commitment and the forging of a bond will undoubtedly challenge logical assessment of something based on cold, empirical facts alone. The labours of men in exotic, mysterious far-off lands, searching for hard-to-find objects of beauty, is bound to invoke images and feelings of romanticism - such tales were the stable of Victorian tales of adventure and daring by brave men travelling into the unknown, and are the basis of such modern tales as the Indiana Jones films.


Related to this, and picking up on number 6 (and 7 to 10), perhaps the MMD industry needs to make more noise about the efforts involved in creating diamonds - after all, the perception is that they should be cheaper because it's assumed it is easier to grow than mine, but is that really the case? We are told that they are very hard to grow, and the lack of high colour, high clarity grown stones (or grown stones in general) coming onto the market would seem to evidence that it's not easy to create them.

We are all aware of how (a perception of) limited/restricted supply helps create strong market values for any given product (reference limited edition 'label' goods, mined D/IF values, the annual Christmas rush to grab the latest 'in thing' in terms of kids' toys, auction site prices of limited-run concert tickets, etc), so perhaps those growing need to start numbering their colourless/high clarity stones to illustrate how only xxx are made per year across the whole world, making them more of an aspirational/rare product and helping adjust perceptions of buyers in terms of market value.


I don't know... The above is just me thinking out loud again so thoughts are welcome!

 

[Jambalaya]

I don't know... The above is just me thinking out loud again so thoughts are welcome!

I'm beginning to feel quite scared every time you start thinking out loud, OoohShiney! It seems that long, meandering thought processes result! Who knows where they might end??

 

[OoohShiny]

I'm beginning to feel quite scared every time you start thinking out loud, OoohShiney! It seems that long, meandering thought processes result! Who knows where they might end??

LOL

The irony of it is that I am very quiet and have little self confidence in real life - I think I have hidden verbosity issues that come out in the anonymity of the internet

 

[Matata]

Eventually lab grown diamonds will be the "it" thing and nobody will want stones formed from the earth squeezing carbon atoms together (some of which are undoubtedly dinosaur poop) in a process similar to constipation pangs. Who wants to wear dinosaur poop on their finger? The ad campaign has the potential for Monty Python type hilarity.