I color grade with brown tone - what % discount to expect?

[zhuzhu]

I am wondering what the appropriate % discount should consumers expect when a diamond is graded with "top light brown tone". Let''s say it is graded color I-J (because it looks white) but does display detectable top light brown hue, how does that translate into dollars? Thanks!

 

[yssie]

Just a note - brown is harder for the human eye to distinguish than yellow, though "brown" as a modifier doesn''t sound as appealing, so a J that is ''brown'' will look less tinted than a ''yellow'' J.

Not sure how that translates into pricing.

 

[zhuzhu]

Yes you are right. I was looking at 2 stones side by side, one with yellow hue and one with brown and the yellow is definitely much more obvious to my eyes. The brown hue however gives the stone a "darker appearance", like a shadow effect, though.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Brown or TLB will be maybe +10% cheaper than the same tonal shade of yellowish.
But most brownish are fluoro and face up pretty well in light where you can most easily see the color.

 

[zhuzhu]

Thank you!
I have also seen description of "TLB" and "Top top light brown". What does that extra "top" mean?

 

[diagem]

Date: 6/25/2010 2:09:06 AM
Author: zhuzhu
Thank you!
I have also seen description of ''TLB'' and ''Top top light brown''. What does that extra ''top'' mean?

An even lighter shade (perhaps G-H equivalent).
I must add that (IMO) light brownish shades are an added value!

Some even should command a premium & not a discount simply because they will display a colorless faceup appearance.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

I would say that ''top light brown'' is not equivalent to I-J-colour. To me, it is closer to K-L-M, with ''top-top light brown'' being more I-J. Some labs, like HRD, will indicate that a colour is in the brownish-range by giving an equivalent-grade: a brownish-tinted would thus be called ''K eq'' for instance.

I have the impression that GIA, nor AGS uses this equivalent-terminology. Instead, my impression is that they give the stone a grade or two grades lower. Still, I must add that I have insufficient experience in the lab-grading of brownish-tinted stones to make any definite statements.

Live long,

 

[diagem]

Date: 6/25/2010 7:59:49 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
I would say that ''top light brown'' is not equivalent to I-J-colour. To me, it is closer to K-L-M, with ''top-top light brown'' being more I-J. Some labs, like HRD, will indicate that a colour is in the brownish-range by giving an equivalent-grade: a brownish-tinted would thus be called ''K eq'' for instance.

Thats exactly it..., each one has his own opinion when it comes to categorizing color shades into (GIA) letter a grade..., I have seen some TTLB''s that I would easily consider ''F'' as well. Just like it was some sort of industry consensus that a GIA graded light pink (not fancy) which is not applicable as far as face up appearance would be valued as an ''F''. Only recently with advanced jewelry techniques did those light pinks all of a sudden become part of the pink family.

I have the impression that GIA, nor AGS uses this equivalent-terminology. Instead, my impression is that they give the stone a grade or two grades lower. Still, I must add that I have insufficient experience in the lab-grading of brownish-tinted stones to make any definite statements.

Presently I too have insufficient experience with these browns, but believe I saw some GIA graded Diamonds that included a comment regarding the color hue in combination with a color grade letter.

Live long,

 

[Rockdiamond]

I believe this is all much less of an issue today- for the following reason- light browns, when irradiated, turn blue.
Therefore, a lot of this material never really reaches the market in it''s natural color state.

Like Yoram, I''ve also seen very high color stones that had a tinge of brown- but far less common today, as compared to before 2000.

Back in the early ''80s, I was sorting, grading and filling orders for Fabrikant, light browns were a hot item.
TTLB ( Top Top Light Brown, also called "first shade") was equivalent to I-J color. TLB was more like K-L.
I don''t see goods like this in the market today- a shame because they were priced less than colorless, but really faced up beautifully.

Occasionally we''ve seen light browns.
Below is the GIA report for an L color, light brown.

Of course it''s based on how the stone looks, but I''d say in the current market, a nice looking stone in the K-L-M range that shows brown may be priced at par with a more traditional light cape- or even higher, as sometimes the light brown makes the stone look a bit pink.

 

[Rockdiamond]

The stone corresponding to that report

 

[zhuzhu]

I am 100% certain that my appraiser said it is color "I" with "top light brown tint".
This is a profile view to show you the color.

 

[zhuzhu]

This is a face up view directly under hot sun. I do see less color compared to David''s L color above.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Zhuzhu- without a GIA report, it''s more of an academic discussion- appraisals can vary to the extent we can''t really give relative pricing guidelines.

 

[yssie]

Date: 6/25/2010 2:04:21 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
The stone corresponding to that report

That radiant really does look pink David!

How strange, and how strangely fabulous!

Do you have any more pictures, by any chance?

 

[Karl_K]

Many of the light browns that used to make it to market are now being turned white by HPHT others are turned into fancy colors by radiation and or coatings.

 

[zhuzhu]

Date: 6/25/2010 4:07:25 PM
Author: Karl_K
Many of the light browns that used to make it to market are now being turned white by HPHT others are turned into fancy colors by radiation and or coatings.

What a pity!
The TTLB in that stone I showed above looks white white white, and has a mesmerizing "silverish look" to it. Completely different feel than the warmth we commonly see in older cut diamonds.

 

[zhuzhu]

Date: 6/25/2010 2:04:50 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Brown or TLB will be maybe +10% cheaper than the same tonal shade of yellowish.

But most brownish are fluoro and face up pretty well in light where you can most easily see the color.

Garry,

You are absolutely right about the fluoro in this TTLB I diamond. This is the cool thing to see, compared with a fluro ruby and non-fluro diamond.

Zhu

 

[Circe]

Zhu, nothing pertinent to add, but I like the look of that stone! Will it get its own thread with details?

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 6/25/2010 4:04:28 PM
Author: yssie

That radiant really does look pink David!

How strange, and how strangely fabulous!

Do you have any more pictures, by any chance?

It also looks pinkish to me .. very pretty color.

 

[Toastie]

It is pinky! Its nice, i like it!