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incognito351

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
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Looking for a loose diamond for an engagement ring. I have a setting chosen that will cost about 800. My budget is 8,000 so I need to stay around 7,200 for the diamond. I am not too flexible to go up. Would be thrilled to find it below 7k.

I would like something like this
GIA graded
Carat = 1.2+
Color = D,E.. maybe F
Clarity = SI1 put would prefer VS2
Very good polish, very good symmetry, preferred excellent
Ideal cut
Fluoro no more than medium
I am partial to no culet but would be ok with a super small one

"eye clean" of course. I am a picky SOB.. she isn''t really (maybe thats why shes with me. LOL)
As far as inclusions go, I read those GIA reports and I steer clear of knots and when it says additional cloud inclusions not shown. That down right scares me. I try to find SI1s that have the inclusions not in the table, which helps with not noticing stuff in the diamond.

Ok.. so my questions.
1. I have focused my search to primarily BN.. is that ok? Are there better places? Are there just as trusted places as BN?
2. I have stuck to only GIA.. too much to process when I start trying to keep track of other certs. Is this ok or do you suggest I really take other reports into consideration.
3. Which inclusions and locations are "ok" or "less noticeable." From my understanding, pinpoints can be ok if not on the table. I steer clear of feathers and twilling wisps and indented naturals. I tend to only like crystals or pinpoints. Is that acceptable or do i need to be more open minded given my price range?
4. If you had 7200 dollars for a loose 1.20 min C diamond of SI1+ clarity and D/E color, what would you get. Seriously, can you find it?? Link me, pm me. I will seriously mail you a card personally thanking you if you can find me the diamond i buy.

If i can save 300 bucks from the 7200, i can do my proposal idea of renting a hot air balloon for a ride over the city and do the deed there! :) If not, well, i will probably do it anyways because its a pretty cool idea.
 
1. too limiting. definitely branch out with other vendors
2. again, way too limiting, and it closes you out of several hundred ideal stones.
3. the type of inclusion is really not as big of a deal as you seem to think it is.
4. it''s what we do. but your budget seems a little low right now; let me poke around.
 
Ditto. too limiting. At VS2, most inclusion will not be visible from the top. If eye-clean, it is eye-clean, will not have noticeable difference between SI1 eye-clean to an IF.
 
My suggestion: either drop your size requirement to 1.10 cts, or drop your color requirements to G, or up your budget.
 
Have you considered dropping your color down to a G? Well cut stones face up really white. Unless you or your girlfriend
are really color sensitive G would be a good spot and may open up more stones in your price range.
 
This stone looks promising if you''re willing to go to SI1 ($7,160 after PS discount)

1.28 Carat F SI1 57% Table, 61.1% Depth, 35 crown 40.8 pavilion

HCA 1.6, 6.98mm diameter

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1261554.asp

I think VS2 is going to be too expensive unless you drop a color grade.

Closest VS2 I could find with your constraints is $7,370 on JA

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1247477.asp

I ran the numbers in HCA though and it only got a 4.1

If you drop down to G color, you could get this stone ($7,160)

1.21 Carat G VS2 55% Table, 61.8% Depth, 34.3 crown 40.6 pavilion

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1260789.asp

HCA 0.7, 6.86mm
 
i would even advise expanding your search to H. there is VERY little color difference btwn an F, G and an H. i also ditto the suggestion of looking at other vendors (GOG, whiteflash, james allen and ERD) as well.
 
Here's another example.

People decide they MUST have what is just out of their budget and drive themselves bonkers when they can't find it.
 
Apart from the specifications regarding inclusions the request doesn''t seem that ridiculous does it? The outer edge of his requirements (i.e. F/VS2) are only ~$100-$200 out of his budget.
 
H color is still very, very white. You will not notice a difference between an F, G, or H in my opinion. This will allow you to get more bang for your buck and more options.
 
Wow, thanks for all these responses. Everyone here rocks! I will go through all these links (cant right now as the GF is in the room beside me and cant risk the walk in and ruin it all).

Quick clarification to what I want.

I mean to say SI1 is OK. and D/E/F is OK. I can be persuaded to a G with good reason but would like, if dropping to a G to go up to the VS2 clarity then. I have been finding a dozen or so stones with those specs but always have clouds and "all clouds not shown" on GIA report. I am a tiny bit flexible on price i guess. I have 7200 to spend, but i get 1% back on my CC. I get 3% back if I buy from BN from a few different cash back sites. I can probably get 2 of them to overlap. So i am looking to get about 7% of the dollar spent back. So i guess it pushes price up to the 7700 mark. But like i said, i would rather gun down a nice stone for the 7200 so i can pull off my hot air balloon idea. Lets make it 7500, if you can.

Questions I have generated from a quick run down of the replies thus far...

What is ERD?
What is GOG?
What is idealscope image?
What is a good HCA number? HCA is that cut advisor thing, right?

Kenny, one comment to yours. I strive to put things out of reach, if only slightly, and then obtain it. Its that much more rewarding and you learn so much along the way.
 
I think opening it up to $7500 would make the search easier. I''ll try to sort through the BN inventory in a sec.

Regarding your other questions:

What is ERD?

Engagement Rings Direct - Diamond Vendor

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/

What is GOG?

Good Old Gold - Diamond Vendor similar to Blue Nile but with a nicer selection of stones and much much better service

http://www.goodoldgold.com/

What is idealscope image?

An idealscope image gives you a sense of how well the diamond does with regards to light performance. See the following for more information

https://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp

What is a good HCA number? HCA is that cut advisor thing, right?

General opinion seems to be that HCA under 2 is good. The lower the better.
 
Date: 10/7/2009 9:28:05 PM
Author: thelvyn123
General opinion seems to be that HCA under 2 is good. The lower the better.
Click to expand...

No, not the lower the better, it is a rejection tool not a selection tool.
 
Date: 10/7/2009 9:17:47 PM
Author: incognito351

Kenny, one comment to yours.
I strive to put things out of reach, if only slightly, and then obtain it.
Its that much more rewarding and you learn so much along the way.
Click to expand...

Okay, that sounds good, and very different from being in spontaneous combustion.
 
Hehe sorry Stone, I was just trying to point out that the scale is inverted (i.e. 2.0 is better than 4.0) :-p.

To the original poster, just from scanning through the GIA reports for BN stones with your specs, I think you might have to make a choice between having feathers or having clouds. Which would be preferable?
 
Date: 10/7/2009 9:38:35 PM
Author: thelvyn123
Hehe sorry Stone, I was just trying to point out that the scale is inverted (i.e. 2.0 is better than 4.0) :-p.


To the original poster, just from scanning through the GIA reports for BN stones with your specs, I think you might have to make a choice between having feathers or having clouds. Which would be preferable?
Click to expand...
Its self induced potential spontaneous combustion.
37.gif
Dont we all work better under pressure?
 
Date: 10/7/2009 9:17:47 PM
Author: incognito351
Wow, thanks for all these responses. Everyone here rocks! I will go through all these links (cant right now as the GF is in the room beside me and cant risk the walk in and ruin it all).

Quick clarification to what I want.

I mean to say SI1 is OK. and D/E/F is OK. I can be persuaded to a G with good reason but would like, if dropping to a G to go up to the VS2 clarity then. I have been finding a dozen or so stones with those specs but always have clouds and 'all clouds not shown' on GIA report. I am a tiny bit flexible on price i guess. I have 7200 to spend, but i get 1% back on my CC. I get 3% back if I buy from BN from a few different cash back sites. I can probably get 2 of them to overlap. So i am looking to get about 7% of the dollar spent back. So i guess it pushes price up to the 7700 mark. But like i said, i would rather gun down a nice stone for the 7200 so i can pull off my hot air balloon idea. Lets make it 7500, if you can.

Questions I have generated from a quick run down of the replies thus far...

What is ERD?
What is GOG?
What is idealscope image?
What is a good HCA number? HCA is that cut advisor thing, right?

Kenny, one comment to yours. I strive to put things out of reach, if only slightly, and then obtain it. Its that much more rewarding and you learn so much along the way.
Click to expand...
Icognito,

The color of a diamond and minnimum standards you would be willing to accept is a very subjective thing as we each see color differently. For some DEF colored diamonds represent a poor value because they are much more rare and have a much higher price tag per carat weight. For others they love the ICY white and absence of any pickup of any background color in the D and E and maybe F colored diamonds and can't see themselves ever going lower as they are extremely color sensitive. These difference have to be seen in real life both looking at the faceup and body in different lighting conditions(in low lighting, under a table, in direct sunlight). Even Jon's great videos on color IMO fail to show these nuances enough and are not sufficient to a real life comparison. Keep in mind diamond color is graded facedown and looking at body color behind a white background and in real life you will mostly be viewing yout stone faceup on a hand, so the color differences are much much less noticeable. In addition the perception of color in diamonds above G and above is very suttle unless a higher colored diamond is directly beside it.

Clarity on the other hand is much less subjective and really depends on your definition of Eye Clean. If your definition is at normal viewing distance and faceup and you wanted to be sure to see no inclusions from this distance than just tell the vendor that. If you want it to be 2 inches from your face and looking also at the side of the diamond than you should also tell them that. However most of us would agree that an Eye Clean SI1 is no different from an Eye Clean VVS1 and this is where if you are trying to fit a budget would be the best place to relax your standards.

Also regarding BN I would not buy from them. They cannot look at the stone before sending it to you, rarely have the best prices (other PS vendors can call in the same stones as on BN for cheaper like Mark at ERD), won't show you an ASET or Idealscope image before selling it to you, and don't have the best after sale policies (Upgrade, Return, Buy Back). BN demands that no other online vendor advertise anything that they offer so it appears they have a monopoly on those particular stones, this is not true although they cannot advertise this face BN stones can be bought from other Pricescope Vensors as it is still virtual inventory.

Regards,
CCL
 
Another suggestion. Look at a G color with slight fluorescence in an ideal cut. The fluorescence will pick up any UV light present, the ideal cut will provide the juice. I also wouldn''t hesitate to drop to an SI1. If you are concerned with un-plotted clouds, clouds by definition are a cluster of very small included crystals and thus, not a grade setter in most cases.
 
Spontaneous conbustion? That''s Serious! I''ve heard that several people die from it every year.
9.gif
incognito351, try looking at some diamonds at a jeweler that carries AGS "graded" diamonds. I tend to prefer the AGS stones b/c they are usually way above average if they got sent to AGS. Lesser ones go to GIA to try to get a more favorable report. You might find that clarity down to I1 is acceptable if it''s mostly hidden and the diamond is a great performer. That might be the tradeoff you''ll have to make to stay in those high color grades. The colorless stones are more rare. Remember, with online pics of inclusions, it''s hugely magnified and you may not actually see it easily at actual diameter of 6.8mm or less. Sometimes it takes a while for the right diamond for you to come on the market.
 
Thanks every one. I am learning quite a bit and making some progress with being a bit more flexible. I have a few diamonds I am interested in based on some relaxed criteria and will upload or link to the data I am requesting on them... idealscopes, sarin, GIA reports, etc.

Out of curiosity, I keep hearing mention of Pricescope discounts at various online vendors. Can someone tell me what the discounts are for PS people? I would be most appreciative.

Also, eye clean... how do i know if a diamond is eye clean if i buy it online. Do any of the online stores access it for me to indicate its "cleanliness?"
 
If you use the Pricescope diamond search, it will automatically show you the PS discounted price. Some or all vendors also give a slight additional discount for a wire transfer payment.
 
BN demands that no other online vendor advertise anything that they offer so it appears they have a monopoly on those particular stones, this is not true although they cannot advertise this face BN stones can be bought from other Pricescope Vensors as it is still virtual inventory.

Regards,

CCL
Click to expand...


isnt that false advertising on Bluenile''s part?
 
Date: 10/9/2009 11:23:49 AM
Author: incognito351
Thanks every one. I am learning quite a bit and making some progress with being a bit more flexible. I have a few diamonds I am interested in based on some relaxed criteria and will upload or link to the data I am requesting on them... idealscopes, sarin, GIA reports, etc.

Out of curiosity, I keep hearing mention of Pricescope discounts at various online vendors. Can someone tell me what the discounts are for PS people? I would be most appreciative.

Also, eye clean... how do i know if a diamond is eye clean if i buy it online. Do any of the online stores access it for me to indicate its 'cleanliness?'
Click to expand...
The only way is to work with a vendor who has physical access to the diamond who can discuss whether it is eyeclean or not with you. It is important when considering SI clarities in particular to make your expectations extremely clear to the vendor. For example, if you don't want to see any visible inclusions from any angle or distance, make sure you tell them that so you are both on the same page. Clarity is graded face up and definitions of " eyecleanliness" vary so make sure you are as detailed as possible with your requirements when discussing this matter with your vendor.

This thread is extremely helpful as well as my dear Coaties' new article - https://www.pricescope.com/communit...an-definition-interpretation-and-taste.30483/
 
Date: 10/8/2009 3:04:58 PM
Author: HVVS
Spontaneous conbustion? That''s Serious! I''ve heard that several people die from it every year.
9.gif
incognito351, try looking at some diamonds at a jeweler that carries AGS ''graded'' diamonds. I tend to prefer the AGS stones b/c they are usually way above average if they got sent to AGS. Lesser ones go to GIA to try to get a more favorable report. You might find that clarity down to I1 is acceptable if it''s mostly hidden and the diamond is a great performer. That might be the tradeoff you''ll have to make to stay in those high color grades. The colorless stones are more rare. Remember, with online pics of inclusions, it''s hugely magnified and you may not actually see it easily at actual diameter of 6.8mm or less. Sometimes it takes a while for the right diamond for you to come on the market.
Click to expand...
Hmmmm, that is not exactly true. MANY more stones are sent to GIS than AGS. You''ll certainly find as many "ideal" cut stones or more with a GIA report. You just have to be selective within GIA Excellent to get the same proportions as AGS Ideal. A vendor like Good Old Gold has the AGS light performance software and can evaluate a GIA excellent stone to see if it gets AGS ideal light performance. WhiteFlash ACA''s and Brian Gavin''s stones are also excellent and a safe choice. All three of these offer a lifetime upgrade, so many here favor them for that reason over BN.

This is the best search to use:

http://www.pricescope.com/sift.aspx

I''d personally rather have a G VS2 than a D-F SI1. Then you don''t have to stress out over the inclusions.
 
I should have clarified that with: I''m looking at SI1 to I1 stones, b/c I don''t have any deadline to buy one and there are excellent performers to be had there at reduced cost. But those grades are harder to buy long distance than VS2 and higher. In the SI and I clarities, the AGS stones have been much cleaner.

I''ve had G and J and M color VVS1 down to I1 and I''ve learned that I''d rather have the color and size over clarity and a few tiny specks are completely acceptable. People can see a big bright white well cut E or F from across the room, but few will ever get close enough to find discretely hidden inclusions.
 
I have been doing a lot of searching and learning. Still have not made a decision and am hoping everyone is patient with me while I get better at this.

I decided to take everyones opinion and move my color down to G. I am taking clarity to VS2, but SI1 is still fine as long as its eye clean. (and yes, i have read from top to bottom the eye clean report twice now).

Here is a diamond I am currently interested in to purchase. I have searched JA, GOG, WF, UD, Niceice and nothing compares in price and from the GIA plot, optimization of clarity in my favor while maintaining its set GIA clarity rating.

Price: $7,088
Bank wire price:$6,982
Carat weight:1.20
Cut:Ideal
Color: G
Clarity:VS2
Price per carat:$5,907
Depth %:61.4%
Table %:57%
Symmetry:Excellent
Polish:Excellent
Girdle:Medium
Culet:None
Fluorescence:Medium Blue
Measurements:6.82 x 6.83 x 4.19 mm

Here is a link to GIA report. http://img.bluenile.com/is/image/certs/?src={/2080/GIA1112151242_zoom.jpeg}&fmt=pdf

I think they can send me a Sarin report. Will this be enough to make a happy decision and be satisfied. I leverage the fine people of this forum as my handle on satisfied. I feel everyone here is quite unbiased and honest in giving me good help with no motive. Although maybe some are not, so I go with the overall voice of the forum
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