How to Interpret Cushion Spec? Compare 4 stones.

[FancyDiamond]

I love the look of cushions, and am thinking about getting a cushion daimond in the future. Of course, I want one that has the best light performance (whatever that means as long as the stones sparkles a lot and has lots of fire). However, I have no clues about how to judge or pre-screen. Here are four candidates.
IS and ASET will be provided next. Then, I shall ask the question again. Please comment on the dimension spec alone. Thanks for help.

Diamond #1 Depth 66.28%, Table 66.7%, Crown 23.38 degrees, Pav 40.43 degrees, 8.53x8.40x5.57

Diamond #2 Depth 67.08%, Table 64.23%, Crown 38.35 degrees, Pav 40.03 degrees, 8.56x8.52x5.71

Diamond #3 Depth 67.62%, Table 59.03%, Crown 41.91 degrees, Pav3 9.52 degrees, 8.55x8.49x5.74

Diamond #4 Depth 64.72%, Table 62.51%, Crown 37.51 degrees, Pav 37.41 degrees, 9.27x8.24x5.33

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/18/2009 1:41:45 PM
Author:FancyDiamond
I love the look of cushions, and am thinking about getting a cushion daimond in the future. Of course, I want one that has the best light performance (whatever that means as long as the stones sparkles a lot and has lots of fire). However, I have no clues about how to judge or pre-screen. Here are four candidates.
IS and ASET will be provided next. Then, I shall ask the question again. Please comment on the dimension spec alone. Thanks for help.

Diamond #1 Depth 66.28%, Table 66.7%, Crown 23.38 degrees, Pav 40.43 degrees, 8.53x8.40x5.57

Diamond #2 Depth 67.08%, Table 64.23%, Crown 38.35 degrees, Pav 40.03 degrees, 8.56x8.52x5.71

Diamond #3 Depth 67.62%, Table 59.03%, Crown 41.91 degrees, Pav3 9.52 degrees, 8.55x8.49x5.74

Diamond #4 Depth 64.72%, Table 62.51%, Crown 37.51 degrees, Pav 37.41 degrees, 9.27x8.24x5.33

Hi FD

Really no way to tell with numbers, cushions are so variable that the images will give a much better idea of the shape, light return, faceting pattern etc. Usually the table being less than the depth % is preferred, a good crown height, girdle neither too thin nor too thick and so forth is what to look for.

 

[diagem]

Date: 7/18/2009 2:03:41 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 7/18/2009 1:41:45 PM
Author:FancyDiamond
I love the look of cushions, and am thinking about getting a cushion daimond in the future. Of course, I want one that has the best light performance (whatever that means as long as the stones sparkles a lot and has lots of fire). However, I have no clues about how to judge or pre-screen. Here are four candidates.
IS and ASET will be provided next. Then, I shall ask the question again. Please comment on the dimension spec alone. Thanks for help.

Diamond #1 Depth 66.28%, Table 66.7%, Crown 23.38 degrees, Pav 40.43 degrees, 8.53x8.40x5.57

Diamond #2 Depth 67.08%, Table 64.23%, Crown 38.35 degrees, Pav 40.03 degrees, 8.56x8.52x5.71

Diamond #3 Depth 67.62%, Table 59.03%, Crown 41.91 degrees, Pav3 9.52 degrees, 8.55x8.49x5.74

Diamond #4 Depth 64.72%, Table 62.51%, Crown 37.51 degrees, Pav 37.41 degrees, 9.27x8.24x5.33

Hi FD

Really no way to tell with numbers, cushions are so variable that the images will give a much better idea of the shape, light return, faceting pattern etc. Usually the table being less than the depth % is preferred, a good crown height, girdle neither too thin nor too thick and so forth is what to look for.

Lorelei is right..., but if I had to put an educated guess..., #3 has a better potential!

 

[FancyDiamond]

Thanks, Lorelei and DiaGem.
OK. Let''s see the IS and ASET.
I know. Once I narrow down to the final two or three and in order to judge, I shall need to see the stones in person or view a video if available. Anyway, for the sake of pre-screening, which of these 4 looks the best?

Diamond #1 ASET

 

[FancyDiamond]

Diamond #1 IS

 

[FancyDiamond]

Diamond #2 ASET

 

[FancyDiamond]

Diamond #2 IS

 

[FancyDiamond]

Diamond #3 ASET

 

[FancyDiamond]

Diamond #3 IS

 

[FancyDiamond]

Diamond #4 ASET

 

[FancyDiamond]

Diamond #4 IS

 

[Ellen]

Interesting. By the numbers, 1 had the "least" potential, and yet, I think it has a great ASET, followed by 2. I would zone in on those if it was me.

 

[stone-cold11]

I prefer number 2 from the ASET/IS. Bigger facets for me.

 

[FancyDiamond]

Thanks to all for your input. I thought #1 looks the best by its ASET and IS. I did not know if my interpretation was correct. Thus, Neede to ask in order to confirm.

Unfortunately, #1 is the pricest. #2 is less expensive, but is still much more expensive compared to an ACA RB I thought round diamonds are supposed to be the most expensive and provide the most brilliance. Anyway, if these are the prices for "well-cut" cushions, I may as well consider other shapes. Am I missing something here?

One last question. #1 has a crown angle of 23.38 degrees. Is it too shallow or is there a typo?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/18/2009 2:53:17 PM
Author: Ellen
Interesting. By the numbers, 1 had the 'least' potential, and yet, I think it has a great ASET, followed by 2. I would zone in on those if it was me.

Ditto Ellen.

Don't worry about the crown angle, not as crucial in the way we normally use them in rounds. Much of cushion selection comes down to personal preference, which one do you prefer? 4 also has definite potential, I don't think you can really go wrong here with any of them.

 

[FancyDiamond]

Date: 7/18/2009 3:30:17 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 7/18/2009 2:53:17 PM
Author: Ellen
Interesting. By the numbers, 1 had the ''least'' potential, and yet, I think it has a great ASET, followed by 2. I would zone in on those if it was me.

Ditto Ellen.

Don''t worry about the crown angle, not as crucial in the way we normally use them in rounds. Much of cushion selection comes down to personal preference, which one do you prefer? 4 also has definite potential, I don''t think you can really go wrong here with any of them.

Doesn''t #4 have the most leakage, the most white area?

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/18/2009 3:26:02 PM
Author: FancyDiamond
Thanks to all for your input. I thought #1 looks the best by its ASET and IS. I did not know if my interpretation was correct. Thus, Neede to ask in order to confirm.

Unfortunately, #1 is the pricest. #2 is less expensive, but is still much more expensive compared to an ACA RB I thought round diamonds are supposed to be the most expensive and provide the most brilliance. Anyway, if these are the prices for ''well-cut'' cushions, I may as well consider other shapes. Am I missing something here?

One last question. #1 has a crown angle of 23.38 degrees. Is it too shallow or is there a typo?

Some fancies can cost more. I wouldn''t base your decision on price though, I''d decide what shape you actually like/want/prefer, and go from there.

Also, if you decide to keep exploring these cushions, I''d have Jon do a comparison video for you. See what strikes your fancy. (no pun intended)

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/18/2009 3:39:47 PM
Author: FancyDiamond

Date: 7/18/2009 3:30:17 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 7/18/2009 2:53:17 PM
Author: Ellen
Interesting. By the numbers, 1 had the 'least' potential, and yet, I think it has a great ASET, followed by 2. I would zone in on those if it was me.

Ditto Ellen.

Don't worry about the crown angle, not as crucial in the way we normally use them in rounds. Much of cushion selection comes down to personal preference, which one do you prefer? 4 also has definite potential, I don't think you can really go wrong here with any of them.

Doesn't #4 have the most leakage, the most white area?

It has a little more leakage but not so much in a detrimental way, could still be a cracking diamond. And Ellen's video suggestion is a great one!

 

[jstarfireb]

I like 2 followed by 1, in part because of the light return and facet patterning, but also because I prefer square cushions to rectangular ones.

 

[DiamondFlame]

You really can''t judge cushions by numbers.

I''m not sold on 3. No. 1 has the best ASET, I love the shape but possibly ''crushed ice-looking''?.
And I would not discount 2 & 4 - their light display pattern could make for very interesting and pretty stones.

 

[FancyDiamond]

Thanks again to all for comments. You have helped me look at these stones in better light. On second thought, #2 does look great with its shape and chucky pattern. The only downside is that they are all too pricey. Otherwise, I would have taken Ellen''s suggestion about requesting a video or visiting the vendor in person.

Just a little disappointed that the ASET for cushion does not look as "good" as RB with lots of red. Wonder if I can tell any difference in real life. Need to check it out.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 7/18/2009 2:42:05 PM
Author: FancyDiamond
Thanks, Lorelei and DiaGem.
OK. Let''s see the IS and ASET.
I know. Once I narrow down to the final two or three and in order to judge, I shall need to see the stones in person or view a video if available. Anyway, for the sake of pre-screening, which of these 4 looks the best?

Diamond #1 ASET

Dear Fancy,

It looks like you want a 3 Carat Cushion. Jon at GOG(rhino) has done videos of at least two of these stones you mentioned.

But first you should really decide what type of look cushion you want. If you look on vimeo.com type in the search "Rhino Cushion" you can watch a ton of videos to give you a good idea of which type of stone you like best.

i) 4 main cushion brilliant ii) cushion hearts and arrows iii) 8 main cushion brilliant iv) modified cushion brilliant(bad ones often called crushed ice) v) Old Mine Cut or Old Mine Brilliant (my favourite).
There are other variations but these are the main types all but iv) has big chunky facets.

Jon the diamond expert at GOG is away until a week tuesday but when he returns ask him to do a Video lineup for any stones you might be interested in.
I would also have Mark at Engagementringsdirect look for stones for you. He doesn''t provide all the optical tests like at GOG but has a very sharp eye and picks great stones and will give you an ASET if you request it.
Keep in mind Mark''s photography and lense setup are not as optimized as Jonathan''s so the images won''t be as nice but the stones very well could be the same or nicer and also his prices are generally better. The downside is he doesn''t offer the same buyback and upgrade lifetime warranty as GOG nor will you get a video and a barrage of tests. For such an expensive stone it would be worth going to NY and seeing the final choices in person so you may not need all the tests.

You have to deicde the following and the aset won''t be the whole story:

1) How chunky do you want my facets? Not all chunky cushions look the same. In that lineup you have 4 main and 8 main cushion brilliants and they have very different light performance.
I personally prefer one like this http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5954 an old mine cut and if you are patient you can get john to cut or retouch one to your specifications that looks almost identical to this one. Just ask him when he is back from vacation give him your ideal budget and specs.
2) http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5869/ This is a page with a video of of one of these stones you looked up take a look I much prefer the other stone in the video that was sold already. Also I think these are stones he doesn''t have in his inventory so you can get them cheaper through another vendor like ERD if you had to have one of them. Also none of these are the best stones in my opinion.
3) In general Jon buys the best ones for his inventory and offers a lifetime warranty on the stone. This means you get 75% buyback anytime and can upgrade for 100% of the value that you purchased the stone for.
If it says 30 day guarantee he probabaly doesn''t have them in his inventory and they aren''t going to be as good as the other ones he has hand selected to purchase for his inventory.

I am sure Mark at ERD or Jon at GOG are the best people to find cushions for you so I hope to speak to both of them but it would save a lot of time if you watch a lot of videos done by Rhino so you can tell them precisely what you are looking for.

Regards,

CCL

 

[arjunajane]

Hey CCL,

just wanted to say good job on the explanation, and I''m glad
you''ve come around on GOG

Fancydiamond,
CCl has made good points above, and I ditto most of them. Definately you want
to be speaking to GOG and ERD for a cushion - but the most important thing first
is to decide do you really love the chunky look, or a modern look etc..

I currently have a thread in SMTR with photos my GOG signature chunky cushion, which shows
it in alot of various lighting conditions, if you''re interested

 

[FancyDiamond]

Date: 7/20/2009 12:13:01 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 7/18/2009 2:42:05 PM
Author: FancyDiamond
Thanks, Lorelei and DiaGem.
OK. Let''s see the IS and ASET.
I know. Once I narrow down to the final two or three and in order to judge, I shall need to see the stones in person or view a video if available. Anyway, for the sake of pre-screening, which of these 4 looks the best?

Diamond #1 ASET

Dear Fancy,

It looks like you want a 3 Carat Cushion. Jon at GOG(rhino) has done videos of at least two of these stones you mentioned.

But first you should really decide what type of look cushion you want. If you look on vimeo.com type in the search ''Rhino Cushion'' you can watch a ton of videos to give you a good idea of which type of stone you like best.

i) 4 main cushion brilliant ii) cushion hearts and arrows iii) 8 main cushion brilliant iv) modified cushion brilliant(bad ones often called crushed ice) v) Old Mine Cut or Old Mine Brilliant (my favourite).
There are other variations but these are the main types all but iv) has big chunky facets.

Jon the diamond expert at GOG is away until a week tuesday but when he returns ask him to do a Video lineup for any stones you might be interested in.
I would also have Mark at Engagementringsdirect look for stones for you. He doesn''t provide all the optical tests like at GOG but has a very sharp eye and picks great stones and will give you an ASET if you request it.
Keep in mind Mark''s photography and lense setup are not as optimized as Jonathan''s so the images won''t be as nice but the stones very well could be the same or nicer and also his prices are generally better. The downside is he doesn''t offer the same buyback and upgrade lifetime warranty as GOG nor will you get a video and a barrage of tests. For such an expensive stone it would be worth going to NY and seeing the final choices in person so you may not need all the tests.

You have to deicde the following and the aset won''t be the whole story:

1) How chunky do you want my facets? Not all chunky cushions look the same. In that lineup you have 4 main and 8 main cushion brilliants and they have very different light performance.
I personally prefer one like this http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5954 an old mine cut and if you are patient you can get john to cut or retouch one to your specifications that looks almost identical to this one. Just ask him when he is back from vacation give him your ideal budget and specs.
2) http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5869/ This is a page with a video of of one of these stones you looked up take a look I much prefer the other stone in the video that was sold already. Also I think these are stones he doesn''t have in his inventory so you can get them cheaper through another vendor like ERD if you had to have one of them. Also none of these are the best stones in my opinion.
3) In general Jon buys the best ones for his inventory and offers a lifetime warranty on the stone. This means you get 75% buyback anytime and can upgrade for 100% of the value that you purchased the stone for.
If it says 30 day guarantee he probabaly doesn''t have them in his inventory and they aren''t going to be as good as the other ones he has hand selected to purchase for his inventory.

I am sure Mark at ERD or Jon at GOG are the best people to find cushions for you so I hope to speak to both of them but it would save a lot of time if you watch a lot of videos done by Rhino so you can tell them precisely what you are looking for.

Regards,

CCL

Thank you very much for your Cushion 101 summary, Professior Cushion.

I am digesting everything your said. Per your suggestion, I shall be watching lots and lots of videos by GOG, so as to determine exactly what suits me best.

I love the look of cushions, but do not know enough to ask the right questions. I was wondering how much correlation there is between spec/ASET image and real life appearance/performance. Now, after having received all the answers here, I have concluded that ASET is indeed a very useful tool for eliminating stones that I do not like, just like the HCA calculator for RBs. Based on the ASET alone, I have already eliminated stone #3. The real life image in the video confirms my decision. Although #1 has the best ASET, I like the look and proportion of #2 the best. However, I am not considering any one of the four, because they are too pricey and they do not sing to me enough.

I love, love, love the old mine cut one you suggested (but already sold). Fortunately, it is under 3 carats. Indeed, I am looking for a cushion stone over 3 carats. Since I live close to New York and visit the area very often, I plan to take a trip to ERD and GOG to find out more about my dream stone and request the vendors to look out one for me. You see, I do not need to buy immediately. I understand the importance of getting exactly what I want, and I know I must be patient waiting for my dream stone to surface. The perk of buyback and lifetime trade is not important to me, especially if I have to pay a premium for the perk.

I buy only "quality" items, and I intend to keep them forever.

 

[FancyDiamond]

Date: 7/20/2009 1:33:25 AM
Author: arjunajane
Hey CCL,

just wanted to say good job on the explanation, and I''m glad
you''ve come around on GOG

Fancydiamond,
CCl has made good points above, and I ditto most of them. Definately you want
to be speaking to GOG and ERD for a cushion - but the most important thing first
is to decide do you really love the chunky look, or a modern look etc..

I currently have a thread in SMTR with photos my GOG signature chunky cushion, which shows
it in alot of various lighting conditions, if you''re interested

Dear arjunajane,
Thank you for showing me your gorgeous cushion. Your photos are very helpful. I wish to get one that looks like yours.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/20/2009 10:54:08 AM
Author: FancyDiamond

Date: 7/20/2009 1:33:25 AM
Author: arjunajane
Hey CCL,

just wanted to say good job on the explanation, and I''m glad
you''ve come around on GOG

Fancydiamond,
CCl has made good points above, and I ditto most of them. Definately you want
to be speaking to GOG and ERD for a cushion - but the most important thing first
is to decide do you really love the chunky look, or a modern look etc..

I currently have a thread in SMTR with photos my GOG signature chunky cushion, which shows
it in alot of various lighting conditions, if you''re interested

Dear arjunajane,
Thank you for showing me your gorgeous cushion. Your photos are very helpful. I wish to get one that looks like yours.

Just tell Jon that you love AJ''s and he might be able to find one with a similar personality in the size you want.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 7/20/2009 10:51:05 AM
Author: FancyDiamond

Date: 7/20/2009 12:13:01 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 7/18/2009 2:42:05 PM
Author: FancyDiamond
Thanks, Lorelei and DiaGem.
OK. Let's see the IS and ASET.
I know. Once I narrow down to the final two or three and in order to judge, I shall need to see the stones in person or view a video if available. Anyway, for the sake of pre-screening, which of these 4 looks the best?

Diamond #1 ASET

Dear Fancy,

It looks like you want a 3 Carat Cushion. Jon at GOG(rhino) has done videos of at least two of these stones you mentioned.

But first you should really decide what type of look cushion you want. If you look on vimeo.com type in the search 'Rhino Cushion' you can watch a ton of videos to give you a good idea of which type of stone you like best.

i) 4 main cushion brilliant ii) cushion hearts and arrows iii) 8 main cushion brilliant iv) modified cushion brilliant(bad ones often called crushed ice) v) Old Mine Cut or Old Mine Brilliant (my favourite).
There are other variations but these are the main types all but iv) has big chunky facets.

Jon the diamond expert at GOG is away until a week tuesday but when he returns ask him to do a Video lineup for any stones you might be interested in.
I would also have Mark at Engagementringsdirect look for stones for you. He doesn't provide all the optical tests like at GOG but has a very sharp eye and picks great stones and will give you an ASET if you request it.
Keep in mind Mark's photography and lense setup are not as optimized as Jonathan's so the images won't be as nice but the stones very well could be the same or nicer and also his prices are generally better. The downside is he doesn't offer the same buyback and upgrade lifetime warranty as GOG nor will you get a video and a barrage of tests. For such an expensive stone it would be worth going to NY and seeing the final choices in person so you may not need all the tests.

You have to deicde the following and the aset won't be the whole story:

1) How chunky do you want my facets? Not all chunky cushions look the same. In that lineup you have 4 main and 8 main cushion brilliants and they have very different light performance.
I personally prefer one like this http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5954 an old mine cut and if you are patient you can get john to cut or retouch one to your specifications that looks almost identical to this one. Just ask him when he is back from vacation give him your ideal budget and specs.
2) http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5869/ This is a page with a video of of one of these stones you looked up take a look I much prefer the other stone in the video that was sold already. Also I think these are stones he doesn't have in his inventory so you can get them cheaper through another vendor like ERD if you had to have one of them. Also none of these are the best stones in my opinion.
3) In general Jon buys the best ones for his inventory and offers a lifetime warranty on the stone. This means you get 75% buyback anytime and can upgrade for 100% of the value that you purchased the stone for.
If it says 30 day guarantee he probabaly doesn't have them in his inventory and they aren't going to be as good as the other ones he has hand selected to purchase for his inventory.

I am sure Mark at ERD or Jon at GOG are the best people to find cushions for you so I hope to speak to both of them but it would save a lot of time if you watch a lot of videos done by Rhino so you can tell them precisely what you are looking for.

Regards,

CCL

Thank you very much for your Cushion 101 summary, Professior Cushion.

I am digesting everything your said. Per your suggestion, I shall be watching lots and lots of videos by GOG, so as to determine exactly what suits me best.

I love the look of cushions, but do not know enough to ask the right questions. I was wondering how much correlation there is between spec/ASET image and real life appearance/performance. Now, after having received all the answers here, I have concluded that ASET is indeed a very useful tool for eliminating stones that I do not like, just like the HCA calculator for RBs. Based on the ASET alone, I have already eliminated stone #3. The real life image in the video confirms my decision. Although #1 has the best ASET, I like the look and proportion of #2 the best. However, I am not considering any one of the four, because they are too pricey and they do not sing to me enough.

I love, love, love the old mine cut one you suggested (but already sold). Fortunately, it is under 3 carats. Indeed, I am looking for a cushion stone over 3 carats. Since I live close to New York and visit the area very often, I plan to take a trip to ERD and GOG to find out more about my dream stone and request the vendors to look out one for me. You see, I do not need to buy immediately. I understand the importance of getting exactly what I want, and I know I must be patient waiting for my dream stone to surface. The perk of buyback and lifetime trade is not important to me, especially if I have to pay a premium for the perk.

I buy only 'quality' items, and I intend to keep them forever.

The ASET is one of the only good screening tools for screening cushions but one of the best cushions I have seen is this one http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5416/ and you will see the ring of white around the table in the ASET but it is a really beautiful stone. I am showing this example so you understand the ASET should not be used to eliminate every stone as these cushions are not optimized for light performance like rounds are.

The large red areas in an ASET image in modified cushion brilliants or even in 4 main cushion brilliants do not always translate to very bright face up areas everywhere, so the ASET can't help you narrow it down when choosing between the best of bright cushions. What you do want to see is a a good distribution of red throughout the stone and along the edges so that every part of the stone is litup at some viewing angles and lighting conditions.

Seeing blue in an ASET is not necessarily a bad thing even the blue areas may lightup and even a slight tilt can change a blue area in an ASET to red. I have looked at a bunch of light simulations with these stones under ASET lighting where the stone is tilted up to 30 degrees in small incremenets and the blue areas change with viewing angle. What you don't want is white areas or too much green under the table. As you can see from the ASETS from the GOG signature OMCs the cross under the table is bright red where the 4 large main facets are with almost no green or white (except for the culet).

There are many nice bright chunky cushions that GOG has especially if they bought them for their inventory(lifetime warranty), however if you are like me and have to have the maltese cross and want to see all 4 large mains lit up see my thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/old-mine-brilliant-versus-cushion-brilliant-gotta-have-the-maltese-cross.118358/ than I think you will be hard pressed to find any except in the OMC signature series.

Since you are concerned about the price and dont want to compromise size many posters here like the lower colours for these cushions. As long as it doesn't have to be colourless and you don't mind a bit of warmth you could probably go to a J/K/L colour and get your 3 carat for a lot less than the H and I coloured stones you were looking at. Many posters here actually prefer the warmth of the lower colours in these cuts as they feel it suits the stones antique look.

Another option is to ask Jonathan if he will find you a stone and retouch it to fit his signature cushion specs. I am not sure of all of the details but that might end up being cheaper and you will get amazing optics. I'd be interested to know how that process works, what diamonds he can start with, how much weight the diamond will lose in the recut. Alternatively he can source your rough and then cut you a diamond close to your specs. He sells more of these diamonds in the lower colours (J,K,L,M,N) so he may have some larger ones already on the way. I think GOG is the only place that will take the risk with a recut before you have bought it so ask him about it.

Regards
CCL