How to get the most for my money?

[spookygeek]

I''m looking to spend around $3k on a diamond for and engagement ring for my GF. Both her and I decided that this ring is for wearing not looking at with a microscope. I''m wondering if i can get some recommendations as to how far i can deviate from ideal, and still have a ring that will look really great on a finger. Can i get some ranges for the different measurements and some advice on a range of the 4-Cs (and maybe the other measurements i have no clue about) that will allow me to sacrifice price, but not quality when viewed from the eye?

So far i''ve been looking at F-D, VVS2-IF, Ideal Cut

some examples so far from blue nile
diamond 1
diamond 2

Thanks again,

-Brent

 

[Stephan]

If you look for an amazing diamond for a good price, look for an ideal cut.


Forget IF-VVS, VS is still eyeclean, SI1 too tometimes.


G-H-I ideal cuts still look very white, believe me.




Regards,

 

[chris-uk04]

Cut
First, stick with an ideal cut. This is the most important "C". Look at diameters in addition to carat weight. This is a good clue. There's no point in paying for "empty" weight. A so-so cut 0.85 stone may only have the same diameter of a well cut 0.75, so you will be paying for carat weight that you can't see.

Color
You can go really as low as I without seeing any color from the top. . Definitely don't go any higher than a G. You won't be able to tell the difference and you'll be wasting carats!

Clarity:
SI-1 is a great grade when certified by GIA or AGS. It's almost always "eye clean". Definitely don't go any higher than VS2. You or any of her friends won't be able to tell the difference. SI2 has a possibility to be "eye clean" under 1 carat. Ask the jeweller if buying online, but they would actually have to have their own inventory. Blue Nile is mearly a broker and if you call them they can't tell you anything more about the stone. Many of the pricescope vendors carry an inventory and have competitive prices.

I think this is the best possibility for what you were looking for:
0.86, Ideal cut, I, SI1
As a second alternative try:
0.755 carat, Ideal Cut, G, SI1

I think the 1st stone will fit your needs better. Put it in a simple white gold tiffany setting and it might total for $3.3K.

 

[aljdewey]

Ditto EVERYTHING Chris K said.....G/H/I color and SI1 (or eyeclean SI2, which is what I did) will get you am amazing and notable stone.




Nice work, Chris!

 

[pqcollectibles]

If you haven't already, get out and look at well cut diamonds. Visit local diamond brokers. Diamond brokers will have a larger selection of stones "in house" for you to view and compare. You will see how well cut diamonds perform, and you can learn what your color range preference is.

Color costs money. Why pay for D-F when a G/H/I will work for you.

Clarity costs more money. Why pay for IF-VVS when you can find a great VS or totally eye clean SI diamond.

 

[Griffin]

I agree with the previous posts entirely. Spend your money on a good cut.
If its for wearing, not looking at through a microscope, you don't need to bother looking outside the SI range.
In white metal, a G-H is preferable but not necessary, in yellow you can go lower with no problem.

There was a thread a few days ago about a really nice I1 that might be informative for you, it seems something like that would really fit the bill.

 

[valeria101]

Keeping the triad of "white-clean-bright" in mind, a great buy (in my view" would be "G/H-SI-Good cut". In this, SI stands for SI1-SI2 (since both grades have decent probability to look perfectly clean face-up especially once mounted. "Good cut" refers to the "Good" category on the chart below. With Good-Very Good GIA grades for polish and symmetry and a nice looking Ideal Scope signature (as below), hunting the perfect alignment of those harts and arrows and the same seems way out of the "good buy" reasoning. The impact of perfectionism here may be more apparent in the "budget" than the "look" categories.

I should add that there is no standard definition for "ideal" cut yet. You are likely to hear about such definitions involving numbers - which are great for weeding out the sure misses, but imperfect at telling the diamonds with best appearence (brilliance, fire, "sparkle"). Some direct analysis on the stone refines the prediction delivered by "cut-by-numbers" standards. Also, direct analysis may reveal great stones that do not carry the pedigree and the price premium of branded "ideal" so and so.

No idea how to define a "good buy" in the D-F, VVS category: those grades have been designed to indicate "rarity" not any sort of visual impact. VVS and VS are supposed to be set apart only under magnification, and good luck telling an F from a G in mounting.

If by "good buy" you mean "the best diamond grading labs can indicate" - than I agree with you. Those GIA grades were not made to effectively communicate a diamond's appearance via the internet

, but to respond to industry and buyer's needs for some impartial quality reference. GIA grades are true to themselves, by may not serve your needs well, unless you learn what exactly their visual impact is. Just my 0.2 fro your $$$, of course

 

[Stephan]

If you are looking now for a SI1-H, but you find that what you can afford in the H&A category is still to small, then go looking for other diamonds (with GIA cert polish G or better and symmetry VG or better) that still score good on the HCA. You could find some very nice diamonds.




For example:/idealbb/files/cheap.jpg

 

[valeria101]

BTW... that picture comes from here.

And... how about THIS stone for a "good buy" ? Or... this ?

It should be noted that HCA scores over 2 are considerd top with numbers around 1 "excellent". These grades themselves are not a diamond pricing factor in themselves, but correspond to cuts commanding premiums at most sources I know of. In consequence, a great HCA score does indicate great potential for a stone's brilliance, but may not also imply a price premium.

 

[Stephan]

Valeria, I think you can find better diamonds that are not H&A than the one you pointed in your reply. I also think that E color is to expensive if you can't tell the difference with a G.


It only scores a VG on the HCA.

 

[Stephan]

I think that the second one you pointed is a much better choice Valeria!

 

[spookygeek]

Wow, thanks guys for all the responses!
Great info here.

-Brent

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 2/9/2004 10:14:36 AM Stephan wrote:


Valeria, I think you can find better diamonds that are not H&A than [the first stone] in your reply. I also think that E color is to expensive if you can't tell the difference with a G.

It only scores a VG on the HCA...----------------

Sorry for this. I initially posted a wrong link. There is a F-SI instead of that E now... You just caught my post in the first 30 seconds, before I got to make the change. I do agree with the comment on the E color. However, while browsing the lists at DirtCheapDiamonds I noticed three stones, all E-F SI1, a bit less than 0.8 all which may be of interest, but no chices really in the G-H, VS-SI range matching the given budget.

Brent, I guess a visit at GoodOldGold would show some nicely documented alternatives (and a fast-track diamond cut learning experince browsing his inventory, if there ever was one), but the range of stones near the given price range was so diverse, I did not dare get into it...

 

[spookygeek]

GREAT INFO. Thanks a lot. One more question. About the setting, i'm looking to get a tiffany's style (not sure 4 or 6 prong yet) Is the quality of the finish and strength of the band pretty consitently high with the online vendors, or is there another place i can have the diamond sent to get mounted with a good reputation? Thanks, i just dont want to spend $3000 on a diamond, and skimp on a cheapo setting.

So far the help has been great, i wish there were more forums like this for every other question i had in my life!

Thanks,

-Brent

 

[Nicrez]

I believe SuperbCert.com has very convincing tiffany's like settings. Me personally, if you are going for a round, I think this setting looks absolutely lovely and unique... Just my $.02!

Does anyone know if this can accomodate a square stone?

 

[pqcollectibles]

ALJDewey got a diamond a couple months ago. She invested in the diamond and went with a "temporary" basic setting. AL had planned a custom setting down the road. She's gotten so many compliments on her diamond, she's mentioned keeping the simple solitaire look.

Don't feel like you are skrimping on the setting if you go that route. It's simple, classic, and elegant. The simple setting can give your gal a chance to look around for what she wants and you can even match your bands as well. There are a whole bunch of reasons to go the simple solitaire route.

 

[someguy]

Nicrez, the problem with the royal crown (the setting that you showed) is its price! It costs about $1000 so I don't think that fits very well in spookygeek's budget. I was in the exact same position a few months ago. I really wanted to get a nice setting (in fact, I was thinking about the royal crown too) but couldn't really justify it since my budget was around $4-5K. I took aldjewey's advice and went with a simple 4-prong Tiffany setting in white gold, with the idea of getting the right setting later on.

Things turned out great! The setting was real cheap which allowed me to max out my budjet on the diamond. Don't worry about dissapointing your gf with the setting when she sees the ring for the first time (during the proposal). She'll be blinded by the diamond's sparkle and will have too many things going through her head to notice. My gf had told me once that she didn't like the 4-prong Tiffany setting, but she still LOVED her engagement ring. In fact, she has even grown to like it because it showcases the diamond very well. The funny thing is that when I showed her the royal crown (the original setting that I wanted), she didn't like it that much because it was a 6-prong setting. Anyway, after shopping around a little, we found a great setting by Scott Kay, and are now waiting for the order to arrive...

So the bottom line is concentrate on the diamond. Once you've proposed, she can pick the setting that she loves. This way you get the best of both worlds: you can surprise her, and still get exactly what she wants. Plus, you'll be able to save a little bit in between so that you can get a nicer setting anyway.

Good luck!

 

[phoenixgirl]

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly . . . the best buy to make the most of your money is to buy an ideal cut in the near colorless range and slightly included range, probably H-I SI1-SI2. Have you looked at stones in person? Can you tell the difference between a D and a G? A D and an I? Have you compared an average cut stone to a super ideal cut stone? Most color is barely noticeable unless you put the stone table down and view it against an absolutely white background. Even J and K stones can "face up white."

Is $3K your budget for everything or just the stone? Here are some ideas for stones:

0.86 I SI1 H&A for $3144

0.78 J SI1 H&A for $2400 This stone makes me salivate. Maybe I should just buy the darn thing myself.

0.70 F SI1 for $2100 Nice ideal scope image!

0.70 I SI1 for $2K You could spend the extra on a nice setting!

0.72 H SI1 Blue Nile Signature Collection for $2800

Maybe you could check out the testimonials of people who bought settings from various vendors.

Good luck!

 

[spookygeek]

I have a question regarding the SI range. I'm looking for a diamond with no inclusions visibile with the naked eye. Am i right to say that a VS diamond will not have anything visibile with the eye, but that an SI "might". For example some of those stones say "eye clean" Does that mean its not visible, or just hard to see?
Plus if i am buying it sight unseen i might consider bumping up to a VS just to be sure it wouldn't be a problem. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

-Brent

 

[Shappy]

Funny I've been having the opposite thoughts having just purchased an SI 1 stone. It takes me 5 minutes with the loop with the diamond tilted in a certain way to finally find a tiny inclusion- I think I could have gone SI 2. That's a GIA cert though, I wouldn't dare try an SI 2 with an EGL over the internet unless someone looked at the stone and said it was o.k.
Bottom line- you look at the diamond with your naked eye at arm's length- not with a loop.

 

[pqcollectibles]

From my experience AGS tends to be rather harsh in their clarity grading. GIA is a close second.

Eye clean means inclusions will not show thru the top/crown, but may be visible thru the side/pavillion. Typically, unless you get dark inclusions, you don't have a problem seeing inclusions thru the pavillion, especially in stones under a carat. We've heard folks on the Forum say they've seen the inclusions thru the pavillion in VS, larger carat weight diamonds.

The key to inclusions is size, type, color, and location. White, smaller type inclusions are less likely to show.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 2/9/2004 8:15:29 PM spookygeek wrote:

Plus if i am buying it sight unseen i might consider bumping up to a VS just to be sure it wouldn't be a problem. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

-Brent
----------------

Brent, if you buy from a reputable vendor---one you can get on the phone with who can PULL the diamond you're consider and tell you what he sees while he's on the phone with you---then there's no reason to bump up to VS "to be sure". VS comes at a HEFTY premium, and it's not typically the best value.

I went with an SI2 stone.....never thought I would!....but I spoke to my vendor (whiteflash) about an SI1 stone and he recommended the SI2 OVER the SI1. Eyeclean means you WON'T see the inclusions in the face-up position without a loupe.....and I don't. My inclusions are white, wispy inclusions, and I STILL cannot even see them with the loupe after staring constantly at my stone for the last two months. This let me get a stone .25 bigger than I was considering for *less* money.

If the stone is AGS or GIA graded, SI1 or SI2 represents a chance to completely maximize your budget with NO visual sacrifice. These vendors are all spot-on, and I've witnessed many cases where they'll say "don't go with that one, it's not as clean as you'd want." You really can put your faith in them.

Those types of phone calls can be the single best investment of your time. Make them.