How to get a Sarin Report?

[stujin]

I have screwed up and already purchased my stone and had it mounted. By spending the last three days practically non-stop reading pricescope, I now am questioning my purchase. I have a GIA cert on my stone, but do not know the other numbers that a SARIN report can give me. Is it worthwhile for me to have the stone pulled out of the mounting and a report ran on the diamond or should I just stick with it and forget it. I love the diamond, but I know just am not for sure. I wish I would have found pricescope beforehand. I purchased the diamond from Mondera. Thanks! Here are the specs I do know from the GIA certificate:

Shape and Cutting Style: Round Measurements: 7.35-7.47x4.59 mm Weight: 1.51 carat Proportions: Depth: 61.9 % Table: 57 % Girdle: Medium to Slightly thick Culet: NONE Finish: Polish: EXCELLENT Symmetry: EXCELLENT Clarity Grade: VS2 Color Grade: J Fluorescence: Strong blue

 

[belle]

don''t stress yourself out!

it is absolutely not worth removing the stone from the setting to run a sarin (imo) that is complete insanity. do you have the ring already? we would love to see it!

 

[norman_in_L.A.]

Hi Stujin;

Your right, the Sarin Report will provide you with much more information than the cert.

Is it necessary to have....only you can decide that!
What city do you live in? I can refer you to someone local to do the Sarin for you.

 

[valeria101]

Numbers like numbers... you have the stone so it is possible to evaluate cut in person without a numeric model. An appraiser can help with that.

Comparing your piece with a round with pedigree (AGS0, H&A, whatever) would probably put doubts to rest one way or another.

 

[Regular Guy]

Seems like you could do one of several things, each involving another order of magnitude:

1) Go to a shop like Tiffany''s, or that sells Hearts of Fire branded diamonds, look with your eyes, and see if you don''t think what you have isn''t just fine

2) Study further with an ideal scope, possibly comparing diamonds found in #1, using that tool, with yours

3) get in touch with Richard Sherwood, who has experience looking at mounted diamonds, modeling them with Diamond Calc, and can get you an educated guess about what sarin might tell you.

Possibly #1 will satisfy your every concern.

Best,

 

[denverappraiser]

In most cases it is not worth pulling and resetting the stone although this will depend on what you are trying to determine. Visual examination, direct measurement and a bit of magic with diamondcalc can answer most of your questions without this step. If you are in the midst of deciding if you want to keep or return the stone you should act quickly. Find a qualified appraiser and schedule a session with them. Quite a few of us have Sarin equipment as well as experience with DiamondCalc and other estimation techniques. There’s a list near the top right corner of this page that may be helpful. Pulling and resetting the stone is usually not difficult or expensive if you decide to do it but it may affect the terms of your return so make sure to check with the seller before you do this. If at all possible, I also recommend you use the same setter that did the original work to both pull and reset the stone.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[stujin]

Date: 6/22/2005 10:01:51 AM
Author: norman_in_L.A.
Hi Stujin;

Your right, the Sarin Report will provide you with much more information than the cert.

Is it necessary to have....only you can decide that!
What city do you live in? I can refer you to someone local to do the Sarin for you.

I live in Louisville, KY. Thank you all for your time and help! I really appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[stujin]

Thank you all for all of the help. I''m actually going to take my stone to a local Hearts on Fire retailer now to compare. Any other advice on what I should look for? I think mine is beautiful, but I kind of took the Mondera word for it when it said it was an ideal cut stone. That is my biggest concern. Anyone dealt with mondera in the past, I''m not sure what they go on past the GIA cert. Thanks again!

 

[IrishEyes]

If it would really ease your mind that much more, than go for it. Personally, I think it''s a little much. I would leave it in the setting and be done with it. Don''t let surfing here on PS too much get in the way of what you already determined was a beautiful stone!! I know it''s easy to second guess after spending time here, I know I used to! But seriously, I''m sure it''s a wonderful diamond and remember that you can always upgrade later and have all those reports done then.

Show us pics!

 

[denverappraiser]

Mondera might have a Sarin report on it. Have you asked them?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[Rhino]

Date: 6/22/2005 12:48:18 PM
Author: stujin
Thank you all for all of the help. I''m actually going to take my stone to a local Hearts on Fire retailer now to compare. Any other advice on what I should look for? I think mine is beautiful, but I kind of took the Mondera word for it when it said it was an ideal cut stone. That is my biggest concern. Anyone dealt with mondera in the past, I''m not sure what they go on past the GIA cert. Thanks again!

IMO, your investment is quite large. If I''m going to spend my hard earned cash on a rock I can hold between my fingers I would want all the information I could possibly get on it. Before you take the trip to a local HoF dealer, prepare for them to knock the product. Ie. you''re bringing it to a biased source whose job is to sell you a diamond so just prepare yourself for the stone to get knocked.

On the flip side, if you bring it to an appraiser, try to find a NO BULLS&%T appraiser who will tell it to you like it is and not sugar coat anything, especially regarding the information for cut. Sadly many appraisers can not even appraise cut beyond what it says on the lab report so do your homework on appraisers and the information they give/equipment they use. At the very least find one with a Sarin. Good luck to ya.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 6/22/2005 1:13:58 PM
Author: Rhino

IMO, your investment is quite large. If I''m going to spend my hard earned cash on a rock I can hold between my fingers I would want all the information I could possibly get on it. Before you take the trip to a local HoF dealer, prepare for them to knock the product. Ie. you''re bringing it to a biased source whose job is to sell you a diamond so just prepare yourself for the stone to get knocked.

I must agree with this. HoF makes some fine products and they have some quality dealers but I would be very hesitant to suggest that you use their showroom and their inventory as a criteria for deciding if your stone is well cut. For starters this is impolite but it''s also something of a setup for biased advice.

Date: 6/22/2005 1:13:58 PM
Author: Rhino

At the very least find one with a Sarin. Good luck to ya.

As much as I love this kind of advice since I''m the only independent appraiser in my whole state with a Sarin machine, this is only critical if you decide that what you want is Sarin results, which means pulling and resetting the stone. Cut grading mounted stones as a whole different skill that involves quite a bit of practice. Unfortunately, you''re right that there a lot of people who call themselves appraisers who don''t even understand the question about cut, much less the answer.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[belle]

i guess you could take your ring to a hof dealer and compare yours to theirs....
or you could take it somewhere else and compare it to their ''ideal'', or somewhere else for their ''ideal''....
maybe it would be easier to just go up to the nearest wall and start banging your head against it

seriously, if you love the diamond, why worry about it so much? at some point you need to trust your eyes and realize that you''ve done well with your purchase and have a nice diamond!

relax and enjoy it!

 

[stujin]

Date: 6/22/2005 2:04:48 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 6/22/2005 1:13:58 PM
Author: Rhino

IMO, your investment is quite large. If I''m going to spend my hard earned cash on a rock I can hold between my fingers I would want all the information I could possibly get on it. Before you take the trip to a local HoF dealer, prepare for them to knock the product. Ie. you''re bringing it to a biased source whose job is to sell you a diamond so just prepare yourself for the stone to get knocked.

I must agree with this. HoF makes some fine products and they have some quality dealers but I would be very hesitant to suggest that you use their showroom and their inventory as a criteria for deciding if your stone is well cut. For starters this is impolite but it''s also something of a setup for biased advice.

Date: 6/22/2005 1:13:58 PM
Author: Rhino

At the very least find one with a Sarin. Good luck to ya.

As much as I love this kind of advice since I''m the only independent appraiser in my whole state with a Sarin machine, this is only critical if you decide that what you want is Sarin results, which means pulling and resetting the stone. Cut grading mounted stones as a whole different skill that involves quite a bit of practice. Unfortunately, you''re right that there a lot of people who call themselves appraisers who don''t even understand the question about cut, much less the answer.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

Thanks again for the fantastic advice. I would love to find an independent appraiser that I can trust in my area, but there doesn''t seem to be any information on them. Any suggestions on where to find a good independent appraiser in Louisville, KY. Thanks!!!

 

[Regular Guy]

Do you have a constraining personal deadline you''re working with?

Mondera will give you 30 days. To get an ideal cut diamond, you may not be able to use an ideal process; just be clear headed about what you want.

Get an ideal scope, cause it will help you with future purchases, however, minor, too. It could be better if you were not rude, but you''re starting from where you are. Compare, however you feel you need to, at will. From the point of view of the B&M store you go to, you may be (and could really be) reviewing your BATNA, and you may authentically be shopping for an alternative to what''s in hand.

According to Garry Holloway, an ideal scope is all that you need, and if you believe him, you can be done. That''s not unrealistic. Alternately, and successively testing this further, to the extent you will feel you need to, you can reach a) Sandee Schulwolf locally per the NAJA site; he''s not an independent appraiser, but he''s local, and has probably looked at a lot of diamonds, and will provide educated support for a fee, b) or talk with your at a distance appraiser, to include Neil, and determine in advance what will satisfy you; can an eval with diamond calc do the job, or c) do you need it first un-set, in which case your appraiser at a distance can help with that too, but as Neil warns, you''ll probably need it first un-set...perhaps from Mondera, if they did it for you.

I''d say step one is maybe clear. Crossing fingers, hopefully you can leave abc alone.

Best,

 

[Regular Guy]

Oh, yeah, and especially since you might be considering returning it, as Neil says...

Date: 6/22/2005 1:01:53 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Mondera might have a Sarin report on it. Have you asked them?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

....good idea.

Best,

 

[stujin]

Date: 6/22/2005 3:43:32 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Oh, yeah, and especially since you might be considering returning it, as Neil says...

Date: 6/22/2005 1:01:53 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Mondera might have a Sarin report on it. Have you asked them?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

....good idea.

Best,

Thank you all again for your help with this matter. Yes I did reach out to Mondera and they are checking with their mysterious "Diamond Acquisition Team" that I have heard so much about over the past month or so. I should hear tomorrow if they have a SARIN report on the diamond...they seemed like it wasn''t too much of a long shot but who knows.

Thanks again!

 

[stujin]

Date: 6/22/2005 3:20:39 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Do you have a constraining personal deadline you''re working with?

Mondera will give you 30 days. To get an ideal cut diamond, you may not be able to use an ideal process; just be clear headed about what you want.

Get an ideal scope, cause it will help you with future purchases, however, minor, too. It could be better if you were not rude, but you''re starting from where you are. Compare, however you feel you need to, at will. From the point of view of the B&M store you go to, you may be (and could really be) reviewing your BATNA, and you may authentically be shopping for an alternative to what''s in hand.

According to Garry Holloway, an ideal scope is all that you need, and if you believe him, you can be done. That''s not unrealistic. Alternately, and successively testing this further, to the extent you will feel you need to, you can reach a) Sandee Schulwolf locally per the NAJA site; he''s not an independent appraiser, but he''s local, and has probably looked at a lot of diamonds, and will provide educated support for a fee, b) or talk with your at a distance appraiser, to include Neil, and determine in advance what will satisfy you; can an eval with diamond calc do the job, or c) do you need it first un-set, in which case your appraiser at a distance can help with that too, but as Neil warns, you''ll probably need it first un-set...perhaps from Mondera, if they did it for you.

I''d say step one is maybe clear. Crossing fingers, hopefully you can leave abc alone.

Best,

I''m goign to trust in Garry Holloway and have ordered my Idealscope. I actually already did this a few hours ago...that was my personal decision. I do have a personal deadline in that I want to get engaged this weekend. I am happy with the stone and I love it. I think I am doing this just because I might be crazy. I do this with every large purchase I make...I second guess it once its done. I''ve taken back 30K vehicles before on a number of occassions. Thank you all again for all of your help...I really appreciate your honesty and willingness to help. I now know where I will be coming the second I decide to purchase another diamond, or hear anyone talking about it. Thanks!

 

[stujin]

I just wanted to give everyone an update. I took my diamond to the HoF dealer in our local market. She was very nice and commended me on bring it in. She was blown away and thought it was a beautiful stone. They didn''t have any HoF diamonds in that were as large as my stone, but they did have one I compared it to. I could tell that the HoF stone was a great cut, but under their lighting my stone looked 20% better than it did sitting here in my La-Z-Boy typing to you fine folks. I seriously think I have been worrying about nothing. My stone looked almost as good as the HoF diamond, which for a 1ct was priced well above what I paid for my 1.5Ct. stone. She also showed me some ideal cut Lazar stones, one of which was the same size as my stone but an F color and SI1. I would have taken my J color VS2 to that one any day...the fluorescence in my stone made it look even whiter than the F. Maybe I''m just an amateur, but I was amazed and so was she.

I know some of you think it might have been bad for me to take my stone in to the dealer to look at their showroom, but I didn''t do anything I thought was unethical by anymeans. I told her that I had a stone that was already in my possession and asked if she minded if I compared the two before bringing mine out. She loved that I did that...and immediately upon seeing it she knew that I wouldn''t be buying one of their stones at a premium so she focused on selling me a setting. I don''t think I did a wrong thing, but that''s up to you to decide.

I''m excited about receiving my ideal scope now to see the light return, etc. I''m not so worried about the SARIN reports anymore. Thanks again!