How to find the courage and walk away?

[Miss Sparkly]

I''ve really been up in the air about this for quite some time. LLLLOOOOONG story short in bullet points

(which will give an idea)

DH grew up in a weathy family who told him what to do/when to do it/how to do it

DH is very selfish - two nights ago I had to repeat my same "please don''t tickle me, it doesn''t feel good" 8 TIMES because he kept arguing with me about it

The next day I told him that in a marriage when somebody is feeling sad or down they should be able to talk to the other person about it without being attacked. He then said, "I wasn''t feeling sad until you said something!" (no he wasn''t sad, I was)

DH''s 92 year old grandmother is in a nursing home because she survived a stroke, broken ankle and surgery - up until this point she was living by herself and was able to renew her DL

DH doesn''t want to visit her because "she''ll be in the nursing home a while" - She''s 92 years old! The fact that she wakes up everyday is a miracle!

DH''s parents paid for his CPA books and will pay for his exam but DH is playing video games instead of studying. DH also doesn''t like being overweight but has told me in his own words, "I like what I eat and I don''t want to change"

DH NEEDS thearpy, he seems almost borderline bipolar and became very very angry and depressed when Obama was elected. He goes from being very sweet and caring to snap angry and defensive.

DH is late for work everyday by at least 15 min but still clocks in on time. I don''t know why this pisses me off so much but it does!

I''ve made my fair share of mistakes and I know it. I inpulse bought us into a lot debt and ate on an extra 80lbs because I was so depressed and angry about DH yelling at me for wanting to spend time with him (when he wanted to play video games). He has gotten better, but it''s been such slow progress

I have learned so much about myself from this marriage and though it''s been difficult, I see it as a learning expierence.

So - seems like an obvious answer - leave DH (it is still REALLY hard to leave somebody even when you know it''s not working). However, if I leave him I want to move back to my hometown and live with my dad to pay down my CC and pay off my car. Great, except for the fact that Dad lives in one side of a duplex and Mom lives in another. They did this because when they split they wanted me to be able to see Mom whenever I wanted (Dad raised me). Mom is A LOT better then she has been before, however, she was very verbally abusive to me as a child. I feel like she''s grown up a lot and she has gotten help, unlike DH. I''m scared that if I leave DH I won''t find somebody else (although I''ve always been a very happy single person

) and that maybe I am walking away from something good (though I''ve always felt second best to his games, ideas and feelings). I''m worried about looking for a job at home which is about 6 hours away from where I live right now.

Things won''t change will they? My friends aren''t in the same boat as I am - they''re just getting married while I''ve been married for almost five years. They say give it a chance, I know I have. How do you walk away from somebody who doesn''t understand how much they''re hurting you and hurt them so badly? Also, when they''re so back and forth with sweet/nice then snappy/defensive?

 

[movie zombie]

please read your post.....you wrote the problems and you wrote the answers.

something similar happened for me during my first marriage. i got tired of hearing myself actually. i realized that i either accepted him as he was or i had to make changes for myself....and i also knew that if i made changes that were good for me, my marriage would go by the wayside. however, i didn''t want to wake up at 40 feeling like i did at 28. if i''m honest with myself, i knew i should have gotten out after 2 years of marriage.....but it took me another 8 years to really understand that, grow and understand myself, etc.

please take care of yourself, perhaps see a good counselor....for you, not to mend your marriage at this point but to be clear and true to yourself. sometimes love is not enough and sometimes what we though was love really wasn''t......it wasn''t for me in my first marriage.

mz

ps i''ve never regretted leaving that marriage......or wondered what might have been. and i didn''t wake up at 40 feeling as miserable as i was at 28!!!!!!!!

 

[sparklyheart]

Date: 3/21/2010 1:18:29 PM
Author:Sparkly Blonde

I''m scared that if I leave DH I won''t find somebody else (although I''ve always been a very happy single person

) and that maybe I am walking away from something good (though I''ve always felt second best to his games, ideas and feelings). I''m worried about looking for a job at home which is about 6 hours away from where I live right now.

Ask yourself this: Is it better to stay in a relationship where the other person is not willing to work with you to make things work or be single and take a chance on finding someone truly amazing?

Things won''t change will they? My friends aren''t in the same boat as I am - they''re just getting married while I''ve been married for almost five years. They say give it a chance, I know I have. How do you walk away from somebody who doesn''t understand how much they''re hurting you and hurt them so badly? Also, when they''re so back and forth with sweet/nice then snappy/defensive?

On their own? No. We only know one side with few details so it''s difficult to tell you to walk away.. Only you can decide this. There are 2 people in your marriage and if he''s truly not willing to work on things then that will work itself out anyways. Living with your dad sounds like a sticky situation.. Is there anyway you could get your own place? It would take you longer to get rid of your debt but you may be able to preserve your sanity!! Have you tried any therapy for yourself? It sounds like you have been through a lot and it might help you get more insight and courage to do whatever you decide to do. If he''s not willing to go to therapy, you can''t force him.. you can only control yourself. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[JulieN]

aww, this post makes me so sad! You deserve better.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I am not going to tell you what to do regarding your marriage b/c I am not in your shoes. No one can possible know what you should do. I think change CAN happen. Slowly, painfully but the person has got to want to change. SInce you are powerless over your husband (and everyone else for that matter) I always advise to focus on YOU. Maybe seeing you change will motivate him to change. I have seen it happen. Take time to realize what you want out of life. Only you can control your own happiness. Journaling, counseling, reading, all can help sort out the mental clutter in your head.

If your DH doesn't want to visit his grandmother that is none of your business. If he doesn't want to study for his CPA exam, that is none of your business. If he doesn't want to go to therapy again that is none of your business. If he is late for work...none of your business. YOU need to get better. You need to figure this out alone and stop giving him the power to make you feel depressed/angry. He is an adult and like it or not he has the right to live his life how he wants. You have choices. Stay and work it out if you really love him or leave if the negatives outweigh the positives. Think of your motives. If you are only staying because you are afraid to be alone that says A LOT about your relationship.

Life is short so there is no reason to settle for unhappiness. Good luck!

ETA: I think it takes REAL courage to LIVE life. So many people sit on the sidelines waiting for good things to happen. You gotta get out there and make your life how you want it and let go of the rest.

 

[Miss Sparkly]

Date: 3/21/2010 3:07:57 PM
Author: JulieN
aww, this post makes me so sad! You deserve better.

Awww

It makes me sad to watch life pass DH by. Some of my greatest memeories are watching the sunset from my window, swinging on the swings late at night with my best friend talking about life and laying out and watching the metor shower - even though it meant that I got four hours of sleep before work. I've always had such a passion to see and expierence life around me. I think that's what really drew DH and I together at first. He was so sheltered and I was/am so vibrant. Vibrant wore on sheltered and sheltered ignored vibrant and here we are

I'm thinking that opposites are fun for a while, and make good friends, but just don't make lasting partners

eta: (it's hard to convey tone with writing and I mean this out of pure curiosity) at what point does something become the partners business? For example: DH always complains about being bored in his job. He has the amazing opportunity to study/take the CPA for free and advance his career. But, he's too content playing games and complaining about his job. It seems that if I have to listen to him complain then it makes sense for me to be upset about him not studying/having no motivation. Likewise, if I'm complaining to him about my weight (which I've done a couple times) then isn't it within his right to tell me to do something about it (which I am)?

Also, I don't see DH much anymore with work, going to the gym, and I like to get out on weekends and go driving or walking my dogs. So it's pretty much my life with a roommate

 

[ksinger]

Date: 3/21/2010 1:18:29 PM
Author:Sparkly Blonde

I''ve really been up in the air about this for quite some time. LLLLOOOOONG story short in bullet points

(which will give an idea)

DH grew up in a weathy family who told him what to do/when to do it/how to do it

DH is very selfish - two nights ago I had to repeat my same ''please don''t tickle me, it doesn''t feel good'' 8 TIMES because he kept arguing with me about it

The next day I told him that in a marriage when somebody is feeling sad or down they should be able to talk to the other person about it without being attacked. He then said, ''I wasn''t feeling sad until you said something!'' (no he wasn''t sad, I was)

DH''s 92 year old grandmother is in a nursing home because she survived a stroke, broken ankle and surgery - up until this point she was living by herself and was able to renew her DL

DH doesn''t want to visit her because ''she''ll be in the nursing home a while'' - She''s 92 years old! The fact that she wakes up everyday is a miracle!

DH''s parents paid for his CPA books and will pay for his exam but DH is playing video games instead of studying. DH also doesn''t like being overweight but has told me in his own words, ''I like what I eat and I don''t want to change''

DH NEEDS thearpy, he seems almost borderline bipolar and became very very angry and depressed when Obama was elected. He goes from being very sweet and caring to snap angry and defensive.

DH is late for work everyday by at least 15 min but still clocks in on time. I don''t know why this pisses me off so much but it does!

I''ve made my fair share of mistakes and I know it. I inpulse bought us into a lot debt and ate on an extra 80lbs because I was so depressed and angry about DH yelling at me for wanting to spend time with him (when he wanted to play video games). He has gotten better, but it''s been such slow progress

I have learned so much about myself from this marriage and though it''s been difficult, I see it as a learning expierence.

So - seems like an obvious answer - leave DH (it is still REALLY hard to leave somebody even when you know it''s not working). However, if I leave him I want to move back to my hometown and live with my dad to pay down my CC and pay off my car. Great, except for the fact that Dad lives in one side of a duplex and Mom lives in another. They did this because when they split they wanted me to be able to see Mom whenever I wanted (Dad raised me). Mom is A LOT better then she has been before, however, she was very verbally abusive to me as a child. I feel like she''s grown up a lot and she has gotten help, unlike DH. I''m scared that if I leave DH I won''t find somebody else (although I''ve always been a very happy single person

) and that maybe I am walking away from something good (though I''ve always felt second best to his games, ideas and feelings). I''m worried about looking for a job at home which is about 6 hours away from where I live right now.

Things won''t change will they? My friends aren''t in the same boat as I am - they''re just getting married while I''ve been married for almost five years. They say give it a chance, I know I have. How do you walk away from somebody who doesn''t understand how much they''re hurting you and hurt them so badly? Also, when they''re so back and forth with sweet/nice then snappy/defensive?

With a few differences, been there, done that. Yes it was painful, but I did walk out with a greater sense of self and what I needed. Scared to not find someone? Yes, but not as scared as being sad and lonely while in the relationship. I was never more lonely than I was in my first marriage. I figured I could be that lonely while I was by myself..AND not have to wash anybody else''s socks, you know? When I got out it was a bit lonely but it was also very peaceful, and I needed that peace, more than company, more than financial security, more than sex, more than anything. And I needed to learn how to be OK, anytime, with my own company. LIke you I was a basically happy loner, but I had lost some of that in the marriage. I had to get it back.

Another poster mentioned that it seemed you''ve answered your own question, and it does. And ask yourself this: can I see myself old with this man? (My answer was a big resounding NO. I couldn''t exptrapolate another 10, let alone 40) You probably knew all this stuff on some level even BEFORE you married him. The real gift, if you can call it that, of relationships like these, is to learn to see clearly past your own pathologies (if you will). To learn to really believe that what YOU require is OK, and allowing yourself to see that a certain person won''t be able to give that and to walk away. Of course it IS a bit better to do it BEFORE you marry him, but hey...

It sure feels like a massive failure though, so if you go forward with this, be warned that feeling like that will be part of the process. As I tell anyone who is trying to make a tough decision like this, no matter the choice you ultimately make, there is ALWAYS something new and unexpected over the next hill. It used to annoy the crap out of me when older people would say stuff like that, it sounded like this stupid old platitude, but it is so utterly true. I just sit back and wait for it now.

For the record, I dated a guy out of highschool, we broke up after 5 years, married other people, each got divorced from those other people, got BACK together for a year, broke up for 8 years, got BACK together, and finally married. He is the most wonderful man EVER, and we have LOTS of water under the bridge, trust me. I put this out there to point out how unexpected life can be, and the way time can make forgiveness and perspective possible. Life is weird and wonderful, so keep your chin up, OK?

Good luck!

 

[Dreamer_D]

The issues you are struggling with are common and normal during the process of break down in a relatioship. A very well knows social psychologist named Caryl Rusbult studies commitment and satisfaction within relationships and found that whether you stay or leave a relationship is often largely a function of two factors: a) your standards for what is acceptable and appropriate in a marriage, b) the alternatives you have to the marriage, and c) the actual quality of the marriage you have. You will stay in a marriage is the quality of the marriage you have is greater than the quality of the alternatives you perceive. This is what you are struggling with -- will living with my father be better or worse than living with my husband? I suspect the answer to this is "yes", but only you can decide. Happiness within a marriage is determined by whether or not the actual outcomes and quality of your marriage exceed the standard you expect. It sounds like you are not getting what you think you deserve in your marriage, so you are not happy. And perhaps you struggle with whether or not you are being reasonable in thinking you deserve more? I can tell you that you do deserve better. No one should be treated the way you describe. And I can also tell you that there are soem signs of abuse in the stories you tell -- even tickling someone after they say "no" is a form of control and manipulation that is a part of the broader constellation of abuse.

As to when a partner''s actions become one''s business... I belive that a husband''s actions are most definitely a wife''s business when they *impact and affect* her. And in my opinion, that is virtually all actions. When two people are in a marriage they become interdependent (NOT the same a co-dependence)-- this means that the outcomes of one partner and the behaviours of one partner affect the other. This is a good thing, and it is a sign of a healthy relationship. But the double edged sword is that if my husband is behaving in ways that I find selfish, or lazy, or mean or what have you, then it affects me, if only to the extent that it erodes my positive feelings about him. Your spending habits also affect him. That is a marriage. I think that if your marriage has gotten to the point where you have to distance yourself from his actions and you have to solely focus on *you* in order to remain in the marriage, then it is no longer a true partnership and it is not a marriage I would want to be in, personally. I do believe that the individual and a sense of independence must persist within a good marriage, and that ultimately you only control yourself and your actions, but I would not stay in a marriage where I had to turn a blind eye to all of my partners'' behaviours and faults in order to remain married.

 

[lilyfoot]

Date: 3/21/2010 4:19:42 PM
Author: dreamer_d
The issues you are struggling with are common and normal during the process of break down in a relatioship. A very well knows social psychologist named Caryl Rusbult studies commitment and satisfaction within relationships and found that whether you stay or leave a relationship is often largely a function of two factors: a) your standards for what is acceptable and appropriate in a marriage, b) the alternatives you have to the marriage, and c) the actual quality of the marriage you have. You will stay in a marriage is the quality of the marriage you have is greater than the quality of the alternatives you perceive. This is what you are struggling with -- will living with my father be better or worse than living with my husband? I suspect the answer to this is ''yes'', but only you can decide. Happiness within a marriage is determined by whether or not the actual outcomes and quality of your marriage exceed the standard you expect. It sounds like you are not getting what you think you deserve in your marriage, so you are not happy. And perhaps you struggle with whether or not you are being reasonable in thinking you deserve more? I can tell you that you do deserve better. No one should be treated the way you describe. And I can also tell you that there are soem signs of abuse in the stories you tell -- even tickling someone after they say ''no'' is a form of control and manipulation that is a part of the broader constellation of abuse.

As to when a partner''s actions become one''s business... I belive that a husband''s actions are most definitely a wife''s business when they *impact and affect* her. And in my opinion, that is virtually all actions. When two people are in a marriage they become interdependent (NOT the same a co-dependence)-- this means that the outcomes of one partner and the behaviours of one partner affect the other. This is a good thing, and it is a sign of a healthy relationship. But the double edged sword is that if my husband is behaving in ways that I find selfish, or lazy, or mean or what have you, then it affects me, if only to the extent that it erodes my positive feelings about him. Your spending habits also affect him. That is a marriage. I think that if your marriage has gotten to the point where you have to distance yourself from his actions and you have to solely focus on *you* in order to remain in the marriage, then it is no longer a true partnership and it is not a marriage I would want to be in, personally. I do believe that the individual and a sense of independence must persist within a good marriage, and that ultimately you only control yourself and your actions, but I would not stay in a marriage where I had to turn a blind eye to all of my partners'' behaviours and faults in order to remain married.

Perfectly said

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 3/21/2010 3:24:40 PM
Author: Tacori E-ring
I am not going to tell you what to do regarding your marriage b/c I am not in your shoes. No one can possible know what you should do. I think change CAN happen. Slowly, painfully but the person has got to want to change. SInce you are powerless over your husband (and everyone else for that matter) I always advise to focus on YOU. Maybe seeing you change will motivate him to change. I have seen it happen. Take time to realize what you want out of life. Only you can control your own happiness. Journaling, counseling, reading, all can help sort out the mental clutter in your head.

If your DH doesn''t want to visit his grandmother that is none of your business. If he doesn''t want to study for his CPA exam, that is none of your business. If he doesn''t want to go to therapy again that is none of your business. If he is late for work...none of your business. YOU need to get better. You need to figure this out alone and stop giving him the power to make you feel depressed/angry. He is an adult and like it or not he has the right to live his life how he wants. You have choices. Stay and work it out if you really love him or leave if the negatives outweigh the positives. Think of your motives. If you are only staying because you are afraid to be alone that says A LOT about your relationship.

Life is short so there is no reason to settle for unhappiness. Good luck!

ETA: I think it takes REAL courage to LIVE life. So many people sit on the sidelines waiting for good things to happen. You gotta get out there and make your life how you want it and let go of the rest.

This. Very well said. Listen to it, please.

 

[VRBeauty]

The courage you''re looking for is not the courage to walk away, it''s the courage to be true to yourself.

 

[Hera]

Date: 3/21/2010 5:10:42 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 3/21/2010 3:24:40 PM

Author: Tacori E-ring

I am not going to tell you what to do regarding your marriage b/c I am not in your shoes. No one can possible know what you should do. I think change CAN happen. Slowly, painfully but the person has got to want to change. SInce you are powerless over your husband (and everyone else for that matter) I always advise to focus on YOU. Maybe seeing you change will motivate him to change. I have seen it happen. Take time to realize what you want out of life. Only you can control your own happiness. Journaling, counseling, reading, all can help sort out the mental clutter in your head.


If your DH doesn''t want to visit his grandmother that is none of your business. If he doesn''t want to study for his CPA exam, that is none of your business. If he doesn''t want to go to therapy again that is none of your business. If he is late for work...none of your business. YOU need to get better. You need to figure this out alone and stop giving him the power to make you feel depressed/angry. He is an adult and like it or not he has the right to live his life how he wants. You have choices. Stay and work it out if you really love him or leave if the negatives outweigh the positives. Think of your motives. If you are only staying because you are afraid to be alone that says A LOT about your relationship.


Life is short so there is no reason to settle for unhappiness. Good luck!


ETA: I think it takes REAL courage to LIVE life. So many people sit on the sidelines waiting for good things to happen. You gotta get out there and make your life how you want it and let go of the rest.

This. Very well said. Listen to it, please.

Ditto this. I would also highly suggest that you first work with a therapist during this trying time (in individual therapy). After a little while, I would then reevaluate the situation in your household.

 

[Black Jade]

I''m sorry that you are going through this period in your marriage, Sparkly Blonde. These kinds of times in our marriages are very difficult. I know because I have been through periods like this several times. I''ve been married 27 years in June and at the moment things are wonderful between me and my DH. But, like EVERYONE married for a long, we''ve been through times when it just really stunk. And I noticed all his faults and immaturities (as I am sure he noticed mine) and wondered if I had made a mistake, and what else was out there--

When we got married we swore it was for better or worse. These periods are the ''worse'' part, though we didn''t know it at the time. I thought that the worse would be something dramatic--but during the dramatic periods (death of parents, illness, severely ill children) we always pulled together. It''s the low-level grinding annoyance of being married to someone who is irritating and incompatible that is truly difficult.

But you know, no two people are truly compatible. Once when I read a study in which they talked to people in successful second marriages (which are rather rare, much rarer than successful first marriages). All of the people studied said, that had they tried as hard with their first as they did with the second, they would still be married to the original. the grass looks greener on the other side--but it can be pretty dry and crummy looking once you get over there. Your DH sounds as if he has a lot of issues (not wanting to go visit his grandmother is certainly immature at best--I could think of worse things to say about this kind of selfishness pretty easily). However this, and playing too many video games, are not really reasons to leave a spouse. They are things to be worked through. And when they are worked through, you will be glad that you did it.

I am working through a 40 day challenge right now called The Love Dare, which came along with a movie called Fireproof. I am happy in my marriage right now, as I said above, but I know that hard times are coming again (because they always do) and I wnat to be ''fireproofed'' against them. I would challenge you to buy this little book

http://www.amazon.com/Love-Dare-Stephen-Kendrick/dp/0805448853/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269207704&sr=8-1

and try to take 40 days to work through it before you make a decision about leaving your husband or not. It''s hard at first because it makes you focus on yourself, not on changing the other person. and some of the challenges are hard to do. But as was written in one of the posts above, you is all you really have to work with. You CAN''T change the other person. so far (I am on about day 15) I have seen some real benefits from the challenges. I think that you just might, too.

On one of the days, one of the things that struck me a lot was that they asked, how you thought of your marriage. They give the example of a person whose car is continually breaking down. Eventually, it needs so many repairs that he decides it''s best to just junk the old clunker and get a new one, because it makes more financial sense. They compare this to a person who crushes their hand in an industrial accident. In the hospital they find out that the hand is very destroyed, all kinds of bones crushes and muscles torn. Fixing the hand will be very expensive and take a lost of rest and a long amount of time. Yet the person does not say, amputate, it''s not worth it.

Is your spouse more like a replaceable car, or did you become one flesh when you got married? Some times you DO have to amputate. But it''s always the last resort, after you''ve tried everything else and you are mutilated forever afterwards. I think that breaking my marriage would be like that. Everytime I have seen anyone break a marriage, it''s been like that. I don''t think of walking away as being ''courageous''. Frankly, it takes a lot more courage to stay.

After 27 years, I am so glad I stayed and I really really hope that 22 years from now, you will be saying the same thing to a younger person having troubles.

Peace to you

 

[Tacori E-ring]

DD, I have to respectfully disagree. Life is all shades of gray but to break it down to the basics unless it concerns my minor child (and only until she is 1 no one''s actions are my business but my own. Things only negatively affect me if I allow them to. I have codependency tendencies and am working on being more aware of what I can put my name on and what I can''t. Care-taking is a big sign of codependency. I try not to do things for other people (not just talking about DH) that they can do for themselves. Sparkly Blonde just hit on some topics that are red flags (to me) on codependency. As far as minding your own business I think it is an important lesson to learn. When I follow my own advice I feel calm, happy and at peace. When I allow other people''s issues to take up valuable space in my head I become frustrating, resentful and angry.

Sparkly, I am a big advocate of getting healthy FIRST. You mentioned having a dysfunctional relationship with your mother. That molds you and it is important to fully explore that. I believe if you do not work on your personal issues you will continue to attract the same type of people on your life. There is a reason you were attracted to your husband. So like I said before concentrate on you and take your time. Decisions made in haste or emotional are rarely the right ones.

 

[Mara]

DD you touched on the 'is life without this person better than what i have now'...that is SO common when someone is leaving or evaluating a relationship.

Is life going to be better ?? Well.... better than being ignored? Better than being told what to do? Better than being told what to feel? Better than eating because your SO makes you feel bad about yourself? Better than being told to change who you are? Better than WHAT really? IMO... life *alone* is better than any of the above. But no one can tell you what to do, you have to feel it within yourself.

As for feeling like you won't find anyone else, that's also common thought. Is the grass really greener? Every relationship I have been in is always better than the last. Typically you learn a lot about what you want and don't want from your previous relationships and can carry it fwd. Selfishness in a partner is never a pretty thing...especially when you are meshing your life so closely with someone else.

But leaving a marriage...it's serious business. Do you still love your husband? What attracted you to him in the first place? Can you see yourself with him in 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now? What is ACCEPTABLE for you in a relationship?

People have to want to change and your DH sounds happy the way he is. You need to determine if you are happy living with that for the next 50+ years.

The way you describe your relationship with your Mother sounds similar to the situation you are in now.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/21/2010 6:22:31 PM
Author: Tacori E-ring
DD, I have to respectfully disagree. Life is all shades of gray but to break it down to the basics unless it concerns my minor child (and only until she is 1 no one''s actions are my business but my own. Things only negatively affect me if I allow them to. I have codependency tendencies and am working on being more aware of what I can put my name on and what I can''t. Care-taking is a big sign of codependency. I try not to do things for other people (not just talking about DH) that they can do for themselves. Sparkly Blonde just hit on some topics that are red flags (to me) on codependency. As far as minding your own business I think it is an important lesson to learn. When I follow my own advice I feel calm, happy and at peace. When I allow other people''s issues to take up valuable space in my head I become frustrating, resentful and angry.

I totally respect your POV, Tacori, and for many people that way of living works very well. It sounds very Zen or Buddhist to me. I think that whatever theories help a person live their best life and work to help keep them on an even keel are all right in my book. So it sounds like your POV is working for you to help you be happy and healthy. That is a great thing. And it may help others too to hear about your experience.

Perhaps we are talking about slightly different marital scenerios? I don''t think I said, not meant to imply, that we should *do things* for other people that are their responsibility. It seems a recipe for disaster, I agree. I diid say that their actions affect us, it is the nature of being in a marriage. And I think that this is a good thing in a healthy relationship where both parties are accountable for their actions and try to maintain a high standard of behaviour. I have high standards about what I think is acceptable in my relationship. I expect to be treated with respect and care, and I aim to treat my husband in the same way. I take care of certain shared responsibilities and he takes care of other shared responsbilities, and this includes both instrumental responsibilities like looking after the house and emotional responsibilites like treating each other with respect. If we do not take care of our parts of the shared responsibilities, then the other partner will be affected -- if I do not pay our bills, he is affected; if he does not speak respectfull to me, I am affected. I personally think that taking care of our responsibilites when it comes to things that affect the other spouse is part of the marriage contract. If he does not fulfill his side of things, I will not do those things for him. But we will have a talk. And he will do the same if I don''t meet his needs.

So I guess I am saying that if my husband is behaving badly, and those actions impact me, it is my busines in the sense that I have a right to demand better treatment or behaviour. If he will not or cannot step up to the plate, then I have a choice -- I can accept him as he is and try to work out a different way of relating to him so that his actions do not affect me, or I can leave. The former is certainly the best option to maintain the marriage, and if life can be shifted so that things are still fair and equitable with the partner *not* needing to do those things he is incapable of, then it is a good thing. But if the list of things that one''s husband is not doing gets long enough, then I think turning a blind eye may no longer be a good strategy. And certain things are non-negotiable in a marriage in my opinions -- respect being one of them. I see a lack of respect o nthe husband''s part in the OP''s story. She has a right to demand more.

 

[hmr_mama]

Date: 3/21/2010 5:52:03 PM
Author: Black Jade
I''m sorry that you are going through this period in your marriage, Sparkly Blonde. These kinds of times in our marriages are very difficult. I know because I have been through periods like this several times. I''ve been married 27 years in June and at the moment things are wonderful between me and my DH. But, like EVERYONE married for a long, we''ve been through times when it just really stunk. And I noticed all his faults and immaturities (as I am sure he noticed mine) and wondered if I had made a mistake, and what else was out there--

When we got married we swore it was for better or worse. These periods are the ''worse'' part, though we didn''t know it at the time. I thought that the worse would be something dramatic--but during the dramatic periods (death of parents, illness, severely ill children) we always pulled together. It''s the low-level grinding annoyance of being married to someone who is irritating and incompatible that is truly difficult.

But you know, no two people are truly compatible. Once when I read a study in which they talked to people in successful second marriages (which are rather rare, much rarer than successful first marriages). All of the people studied said, that had they tried as hard with their first as they did with the second, they would still be married to the original. the grass looks greener on the other side--but it can be pretty dry and crummy looking once you get over there. Your DH sounds as if he has a lot of issues (not wanting to go visit his grandmother is certainly immature at best--I could think of worse things to say about this kind of selfishness pretty easily). However this, and playing too many video games, are not really reasons to leave a spouse. They are things to be worked through. And when they are worked through, you will be glad that you did it.

I am working through a 40 day challenge right now called The Love Dare, which came along with a movie called Fireproof. I am happy in my marriage right now, as I said above, but I know that hard times are coming again (because they always do) and I wnat to be ''fireproofed'' against them. I would challenge you to buy this little book

http://www.amazon.com/Love-Dare-Stephen-Kendrick/dp/0805448853/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269207704&sr=8-1

and try to take 40 days to work through it before you make a decision about leaving your husband or not. It''s hard at first because it makes you focus on yourself, not on changing the other person. and some of the challenges are hard to do. But as was written in one of the posts above, you is all you really have to work with. You CAN''T change the other person. so far (I am on about day 15) I have seen some real benefits from the challenges. I think that you just might, too.

On one of the days, one of the things that struck me a lot was that they asked, how you thought of your marriage. They give the example of a person whose car is continually breaking down. Eventually, it needs so many repairs that he decides it''s best to just junk the old clunker and get a new one, because it makes more financial sense. They compare this to a person who crushes their hand in an industrial accident. In the hospital they find out that the hand is very destroyed, all kinds of bones crushes and muscles torn. Fixing the hand will be very expensive and take a lost of rest and a long amount of time. Yet the person does not say, amputate, it''s not worth it.

Is your spouse more like a replaceable car, or did you become one flesh when you got married? Some times you DO have to amputate. But it''s always the last resort, after you''ve tried everything else and you are mutilated forever afterwards. I think that breaking my marriage would be like that. Everytime I have seen anyone break a marriage, it''s been like that. I don''t think of walking away as being ''courageous''. Frankly, it takes a lot more courage to stay.

After 27 years, I am so glad I stayed and I really really hope that 22 years from now, you will be saying the same thing to a younger person having troubles.

Peace to you

I couldn''t have said it better!

 

[oddoneout]

Date: 3/21/2010 4:19:42 PM
Author: dreamer_d
The issues you are struggling with are common and normal during the process of break down in a relatioship. A very well knows social psychologist named Caryl Rusbult studies commitment and satisfaction within relationships and found that whether you stay or leave a relationship is often largely a function of two factors: a) your standards for what is acceptable and appropriate in a marriage, b) the alternatives you have to the marriage, and c) the actual quality of the marriage you have. You will stay in a marriage is the quality of the marriage you have is greater than the quality of the alternatives you perceive. This is what you are struggling with -- will living with my father be better or worse than living with my husband? I suspect the answer to this is ''yes'', but only you can decide. Happiness within a marriage is determined by whether or not the actual outcomes and quality of your marriage exceed the standard you expect. It sounds like you are not getting what you think you deserve in your marriage, so you are not happy. And perhaps you struggle with whether or not you are being reasonable in thinking you deserve more? I can tell you that you do deserve better. No one should be treated the way you describe. And I can also tell you that there are soem signs of abuse in the stories you tell -- even tickling someone after they say ''no'' is a form of control and manipulation that is a part of the broader constellation of abuse.


As to when a partner''s actions become one''s business... I belive that a husband''s actions are most definitely a wife''s business when they *impact and affect* her. And in my opinion, that is virtually all actions. When two people are in a marriage they become interdependent (NOT the same a co-dependence)-- this means that the outcomes of one partner and the behaviours of one partner affect the other. This is a good thing, and it is a sign of a healthy relationship. But the double edged sword is that if my husband is behaving in ways that I find selfish, or lazy, or mean or what have you, then it affects me, if only to the extent that it erodes my positive feelings about him. Your spending habits also affect him. That is a marriage. I think that if your marriage has gotten to the point where you have to distance yourself from his actions and you have to solely focus on *you* in order to remain in the marriage, then it is no longer a true partnership and it is not a marriage I would want to be in, personally. I do believe that the individual and a sense of independence must persist within a good marriage, and that ultimately you only control yourself and your actions, but I would not stay in a marriage where I had to turn a blind eye to all of my partners'' behaviours and faults in order to remain married.

I totally agree. I am sorry you''re going through this. I know it must be hard to decide.

 

[Maisie]

You are almost telling my story SB. I have felt all the feelings you are feeling. I posted about my marital difficulties on PS a little while ago and I got a wealth of advice and opinions.

My divorce is almost complete. I am apprehensive about the future. Being a single mother and having to do everything myself. Sometimes I second guess my decisions. I wonder if I should keep on trying to keep the marriage together. Thats when I talk to my PS friends on FB. They have really supported me as I can''t talk to my family about this. He has made sure I don''t have any friends here so I don''t have that support either. I worry I won''t meet someone else. In fact I was talking about that very thing last night.

The one thing I do know is this. I would rather be on my own than as miserable as I have been while married. I had to be honest with myself and accept that he is unlikely to change. He will always be obsessed with his PS3. He will always put our son before me. He will always get angry when things don''t go his way. He will always be unpredictable. I can''t have that in my life.

 

[meresal]

In all honesty, I think you are seeking out petty things to be mad at your DH about, because you are unhappy. Are his vedeo games affecting his grades... or do you just hate that he isn''t studying? Has his showing up late to work gotten him in trouble with his employer... or does it just bother you that he gets away with it? (etc.) In listing all of these things that are annoying you about your DH, you never listed how they directly affect you, if they even affect you... other than the fact that you don''t agree with them?

FWIW, my DH has grandparents that are 91 and 92, and I think he should see them more... but he has his reasons for not going over there, and it is not my place to tell him what he should and shouldn''t do. They are his family.

I agree with the previous posters that say you need to get into individualized therapy, and be true to yourself first.

 

[lknvrb4]

I agree that you need to get yourself healthy but I also think it may be hard to do in the environment that you are in. I had a very similar situation with my ex and i had two small children to factor in. In the end, I left and I don''t regret it one bit. I married the love of my life and worked on myself along the way. Best of luck!

 

[Jas12]

DD--i agree. This is about weighing options. We do it with all aspects of our life, but it''s most difficult when it comes down to the intimate relationships. We invest so much time, money, planning, vulnerablity, when we marry someone, it''s not easy to just walk away, even when the writing is on the wall.

SP--I agree with DD that spouses are each other''s business. It is the most involved and complicated partnership & that fact can''t be ignored. yes, we are responsible for our own happiness, and so that can sometimes mean walking away, but we are kidding ourselves to think it is okay to live with an emotionally or physically distant or abusive man and just ignore this. I have a responsibility to respect and support my husband and he should do the same. I would never say to myself "ah well, i''ll just accept that he prefers a video game to my company, i''ll find joy somewhere else" or "it''s okay that he has no respect for his grandma, who cares what kind of relationship he has with his family" Nope, it''s give and take, and it sounds like your DH is not well versed on the ''give'' part. So something has to change or the relationship dissolves.
I wish you luck and strength in making your decision. As others have said, you do deserve happiness!

 

[zipzapgirl]

I don''t see the problems you talked about as being "deal breakers" but I do understand what you''re saying about feeling emotionally isolated and frustrated with the other person. I don''t think it helps that you are currently surrounded by newlyweds who are thrilled with their spouses, while you are in the slogging it through 7 year itch period.

I think a lot of what you talked about results from immature decisions on both of your parts and a lack of accountability to the other person. Both partner''s decisions DO affect the lives of the other partner, for better or for worse, so its important to make sure that both you and your partner are doing things that will further the relationship and the common goals.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Date: 3/21/2010 11:29:48 PM
Author: dreamer_d

Date: 3/21/2010 6:22:31 PM


So I guess I am saying that if my husband is behaving badly, and those actions impact me, it is my busines in the sense that I have a right to demand better treatment or behaviour. If he will not or cannot step up to the plate, then I have a choice -- I can accept him as he is and try to work out a different way of relating to him so that his actions do not affect me, or I can leave.

I think this is spot on. I think every relationship needs boundaries (parent/child, spouse, friends, etc). I think we even need to set boundaries with ourselves. My three basic boundaries is I will not hurt someone else, I will not let someone hurt me, and I will not hurt myself. Obviously there are different interpretations to those (physical, mental, sexual) but those are my standard boundaries. I expect those in relationships with me to respect them or I cut them out of my life. Someone once told me boundaries were "loving life limits." I really like that. As long as I set them for me not to change someone else's behavior I think they are healthy and they are constructive.

As to other people's relationships...well those are messy. There are always three sides to the story and some people are unaware of the part they play. I still think the examples SB mentioned aren't any of her business. Maybe he doesn't want to be a CPA. Maybe he doesn't want to visit his grandmother. Those decisions are his right and they shouldn't negatively affect her. The way I look at it is life is short. I want to make sure I live it for myself and follow my dreams. I am adult and don't want someone micromanaging me. If a friend/relative/spouse doesn't like this they don't have to be in my life. [/quote]

 

[lilyfoot]

Sparkly Blonde, I don''t have any wise advice to offer at the moment, but I do agree with everything Black Jade said. I''m sorry you''re going through this, and I hope that you can figure out a solution (whether it be an "immediate" solution or a long-term one) which works best for a)you and b)your marriage.

 

[junebug17]

I''ve re-read your post several times, and haven''t found anything about you having a serious discussion with your dh about your feelings and concerns. I don''t mean short comments that convey you are unhappy, I mean you telling him you are actually considering divorcing him. If you have, what has his response been? If dh is aware that his marriage is in danger, maybe he will be willing to go to marriage counseling. If he isn''t, I think it would be a good idea for you to attend individual counseling. Eventually, something in this relationship has got to give, unless you can picture yourself remaining in this marriage for the next 40 years.

Can a person change? I believe he/she can, but that person has to acknowledge that there are things about them that need to be changed. It''s been my experience that often the person in question thinks they are just fine, there''s nothing wrong with them, it''s everybody else who is wrong.

I am truly sorry you are going through this, I hope you can find a way to achieve peace and happiness in your life.

 

[qtiekiki]

Date: 3/22/2010 10:12:27 AM
Author: meresal
In all honesty, I think you are seeking out petty things to be mad at your DH about, because you are unhappy. Are his video games affecting his grades... or do you just hate that he isn''t studying? Has his showing up late to work gotten him in trouble with his employer... or does it just bother you that he gets away with it? (etc.) In listing all of these things that are annoying you about your DH, you never listed how they directly affect you, if they even affect you... other than the fact that you don''t agree with them?


FWIW, my DH has grandparents that are 91 and 92, and I think he should see them more... but he has his reasons for not going over there, and it is not my place to tell him what he should and shouldn''t do. They are his family.


I agree with the previous posters that say you need to get into individualized therapy, and be true to yourself first.

Ditto. I really think some of the things you are annoyed with are petty. Why do they bother you? Are you doing your best to help with the issues? You need to figure it out and doing all you can before walking away.

Had you sit down and discuss this with your DH (his behaviors and the possibility of you divorcing)? Yes you need to be true to yourself, but you also need to be true to him. It''s unfair to him to be blindsided from a separation/divorce. Maybe after many years of being told what/when/how to do things, he doesn''t see the effects of his actions/behaviors have on your marriage, and you need to spell it out to him. I am not dismissing his behaviors, but you owe it to him and your marriage to talk it out.

 

[oddoneout]

I don''t think you''re being petty or giving petty complaints. I think what you give as examples are signs of something more serious for your DH. At least you mention your part too (the debt, etc.) but I think your problems (the debt, weight gain) are symptoms of you being depressed (and maybe other things). Couple counselling would be good as well as individual counselling. Good luck working through things.

 

[dragonfly411]

Sparkly - I just saw this and wanted to give you a big (((((((((((((((( HUG))))))))))))))))))))). You''ve gotten some great advice so far. Please don''t settle. You should get to have an exciting, prosperous and happy life, and right now you aren''t. I wish you the best.... you deserve it.

 

[february2003bride]

SB- First (((HUGS)))

Second, it sounds like your DH is stuck in his teenage years. Going to work late, his parents are still paying for things, eating junk food and not caring about his health, and ignoring you to play video games. I read a lot of resentment in your post that you are trying to be the adult in the marriage while your DH is still the kid. You can''t force your DH to grow up. If you do all he''ll hear is nagging. Start on yourself first by getting counseling, see a nutrionist, go the gym, see your friends again. You can make your life happy yourself, you don''t need for your DH to make that happen. Once you''ve focused on yourself, if your DH still hasn''t grown up then you know that it won''t work out. Atleast by the time you decide that, you''ll be a healthier (mentally, emotionally, physically) person.